Can we make it so platinum achievers can vote on the difficulty of a game and also show that in the guides?

[Matrim_Drasgen]

Definitely a feature that should be an ADDITION to the current feature and NOT a replacement. If the community is allowed to vote how long it takes to get a Plat, only Plat owners have the right to vote. Someone who has 50% game done in 16 hours is just going to guess the time until Plat. They have no true way of knowing. They could read forums or guides or ask, but still all they are doing is taking data from somewhere else and regurgitating it as their own when they cast a vote. I would trust one vote from a Platinum owner over a million from non-owners. Of course it is subjective, absolutely no way around that but as more and more data/votes are gathered, a better understanding will be achieved. Especially if you add in a comments section with the votes and names so you can look at someone's profile to see what games they play. This of course won't prevent trolls or give concrete evidence, it just helps make informed decisions. The guide's time and difficulty are for the guide. The Plat owners' vote does not necessarily have to be for the guide, just the game and Plat in general and their comments would hopefully reflect this.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Matrim_Drasgen

[starcrunch061]

On 12/24/2018 at 3:49 PM, Quink666 said:

Alot of guides put games at a 2-3/10 when in reality it is closer to a 4 and maybe even a 5.

 

You have as remarkably sensitive plat ranking system if you see that much difference in a guide that says a 3, but you believe in your heart that it should be a 4. ?

 

On 12/24/2018 at 8:29 PM, mekktor said:

 

No, it can't. You have no idea what went into the number that a particular guide writer chose, so no way to know how to scale it. With user voted ratings, you get consistency across games. You know that if racing game A is 2 points higher than racing game B, it's because game A is harder, not because the guide writer is bad at racing games.

 

What I don't understand here is why people would even argue against this. Even if you can't see the benefits, what do you gain by trying to stop it from being implemented? Especially if you end up with both the guide writer and the user voted ratings? Sometime it seems people want to argue just for the sake of it.

 

Late to the party, but I agree with both people here. I don't see any reason why we can't have a poll for plat difficulty here, and I'm saying this as a guide writer who often has no idea how to rate difficulty of a game, since I'm completely in a vacuum. 

 

HOWEVER, I'd rather that such difficulty be separate from the guide writer's difficulty. The reason is, a lot of times people don't use the guides properly, and then bitch that the game is harder than the guide says. Both numbers have relevance, I believe.

[ShadeSplit]

I don't think this is going to solve the "2-3/10" problem. It was the same way on https://www.playstationtrophies.org/ . You'd have many people trying to claim that games such as Muramasa Rebirth or Silent Hill 2 are 2-3/10, which doesn't make any sense. The platinum trophy rates on this site prove as much. And that is actually what I feel is the best way to get an idea for how difficult a game is. Obviously looking at the platinum trophy rates isn't perfect, but it's much more reliable than having a group of random people rate nearly everything with a 2-4.

[starcrunch061]

On 1/14/2019 at 6:17 PM, GameOverComesAll said:

Obviously looking at the platinum trophy rates isn't perfect, but it's much more reliable than having a group of random people rate nearly everything with a 2-4.

 

This is certainly one of the downsides of allowing only plat owners to vote. As one of my Ph.D. advisers told me, everything is easy once you know how to do it.

[Matrim_Drasgen]

On 1/14/2019 at 4:17 PM, GameOverComesAll said:

I don't think this is going to solve the "2-3/10" problem. It was the same way on https://www.playstationtrophies.org/ . You'd have many people trying to claim that games such as Muramasa Rebirth or Silent Hill 2 are 2-3/10, which doesn't make any sense. The platinum trophy rates on this site prove as much. And that is actually what I feel is the best way to get an idea for how difficult a game is. Obviously looking at the platinum trophy rates isn't perfect, but it's much more reliable than having a group of random people rate nearly everything with a 2-4.

I agree the rarity is another tool to help determine but it is not just difficulty that stops players from getting the Plat. You have your grind, Multiplayer, multiple playthroughs, gliched. I don't think rarity is better for determining difficulty but can certainly help.

 

On 1/16/2019 at 8:09 AM, starcrunch061 said:

 

This is certainly one of the downsides of allowing only plat owners to vote. As one of my Ph.D. advisers told me, everything is easy once you know how to do it.

I feel that this wrong because Plat owners are the only ones who can truly speak to it. Sure, there is a risk that a group will vote way under or way over difficulty for any reason. However, no way around that. You let anyone vote, then you not only increase the group number and probably percentage of this happening but now you have people who can't honestly know how difficult or how long a game takes to Plat. They can make educated guesses based of a variety of sources but it wouldn't be accurate. I feel people generally care and wanna help or guides wouldn't be written. All votes should come with a comment block that has to be submitted and approved for verification. I voted 'X' and here are my reasons as to why. I know that this implementation would take time from the staff but it would weed out trolls. Even if the staff doesn't overlook vote comments, at least you could review yourself. If commemts and votes align, then it is reasonable to say the voter honestly believes that opinion. Book reviews on Amazon Kindle have a comment section that I feel helps legitimize ratings.

 

I definitely see both your opinions and respect them. Maybe your advisor is right but even that statement is opinion based, not fact.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Matrim_Drasgen

[ShadeSplit]

On 1/17/2019 at 9:55 PM, Matrim_Drasgen said:

I agree the rarity is another tool to help determine but it is not just difficulty that stops players from getting the Plat. You have your grind, Multiplayer, multiple playthroughs, gliched. I don't think rarity is better for determining difficulty but can certainly help.

 

I've always thought that the point of having a "platinum difficulty number" is to give your average player/trophy hunter an idea as to whether or not they will end up earning the platinum trophy. "Grind" may not be inherently difficult, but if it's something that is stopping the vast majority of players from earning the platinum trophy, then it effectively is. That is actually another reason why I believe looking at the platinum trophy rarity gives you a better idea than a number given by random people.

[Matrim_Drasgen]

On 1/18/2019 at 10:17 PM, GameOverComesAll said:

 

I've always thought that the point of having a "platinum difficulty number" is to give your average player/trophy hunter an idea as to whether or not they will end up earning the platinum trophy. "Grind" may not be inherently difficult, but if it's something that is stopping the vast majority of players from earning the platinum trophy, then it effectively is. That is actually another reason why I believe looking at the platinum trophy rarity gives you a better idea than a number given by random people.

I see your point on that and do agree. I just don't support grind trophies having influence on the difficulty rating of a Platinum solely because it requires time. The term grind is for time and while grind trophies can be challenging, most are not. One of the few I can think of is 1000 jumps for FF9. I finally got 122 today and after an additional 6 hours, can't get past it. That trophy alone bumps up the Plat difficulty by at least 3 full points. Rest of the game is a breeze after that. Even though more people have that jump rope over the 100k kills (though I believe it is due to the auto play method), jumping rope is what prevents 9 from having more Plat owners. 100k is just tedious and most people don't attempt it because they know the jump rope is difficult AND grindy. A guide should point that out and explain it. Does its low rarity mean something? Yes, especially when I compare numbers such as owners, average rating and read comments in the game's forum/guide's comment.

[ShadeSplit]

On 1/20/2019 at 8:42 AM, Matrim_Drasgen said:

I see your point on that and do agree. I just don't support grind trophies having influence on the difficulty rating of a Platinum solely because it requires time. The term grind is for time and while grind trophies can be challenging, most are not. One of the few I can think of is 1000 jumps for FF9. I finally got 122 today and after an additional 6 hours, can't get past it. That trophy alone bumps up the Plat difficulty by at least 3 full points. Rest of the game is a breeze after that. Even though more people have that jump rope over the 100k kills (though I believe it is due to the auto play method), jumping rope is what prevents 9 from having more Plat owners. 100k is just tedious and most people don't attempt it because they know the jump rope is difficult AND grindy. A guide should point that out and explain it. Does its low rarity mean something? Yes, especially when I compare numbers such as owners, average rating and read comments in the game's forum/guide's comment.

 

You probably shouldn't have used Final Fantasy IX as an example. As you said, some people are using a script, but even besides that, it actually takes less than ten minutes to complete if you're able to do it (you also have access to it at the beginning of the game). It's just so difficult, you're bound to need a lot of practice. While I'd certainly agree that a game that takes 50 hours to complete isn't necessarily more difficult than a game that takes 25, I absolutely believe it can have an effect. It really depends on what needs to be done, and for how long.

[Matrim_Drasgen]

10 hours ago, GameOverComesAll said:

 

You probably shouldn't have used Final Fantasy IX as an example. As you said, some people are using a script, but even besides that, it actually takes less than ten minutes to complete if you're able to do it (you also have access to it at the beginning of the game). It's just so difficult, you're bound to need a lot of practice. While I'd certainly agree that a game that takes 50 hours to complete isn't necessarily more difficult than a game that takes 25, I absolutely believe it can have an effect. It really depends on what needs to be done, and for how long.

Maybe not the best example for a grind but if you take away the script assist, the trophy is very difficult, requires hours upon hours of practice, and you either have to create a save with access to the jump rope or hold up your entire game as you work on the requirement becasue as you said, only get two chances at it. To me it is one of the few grindy trophies I known that is also difficult. However, the conversation was originally about using rarity as the determining factor for how difficult a game is and your opinion is very valid and I give it more weight then I originally did, but for me, still use it as tool in support of guide difficulty (if it exists), comments, trophy descriptions, and forum conversations. Guess subconsciously I knew that no one thing was concrete enough to provide an answer. I will be looking at the rarity closer now.

[Lava_Yuki]

They have that on playstation trophies.com, it would be really good to introduce it here too, Also, hours to complete as well as I find it varies hugely between players, especially skill based games and games with a steep learning curve like Disgaea