Vergil

Grade S++. Tips, Info, Strategies!!!

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39 minutes ago, Vergil said:

Hello! 

 

I thought it would be nice to share and discuss all the Grade S++ trophies here. No doubt these being the hardest thing to do on this game. Hopefully i can complete all and give some good info on all chapters. I recently did chapter 1 so i will show my vid and try to explain like a walkthrough  of what´s happening.

 

 

Ok right of the bat. I played on Normal. Reason is, its slightly easier to get S++ since you can absorb bullets and get extra points. 

First section is easy. Right off there will be 6 white popcorn balls coming from right and after there will be another 6 black ones. This happens 2 times. Here i use same color ship and absorb the bullets. After that a set of  16 each white and black smaller balls will appear. I here i use the black color ship and start from left, taking out the white ones first. You may have to adjusted at times since you can miss the one top left. After i shoot the black ones and use missiles and absorb the bullets. If done right there will be a set of 3 white balls coming from right and 3 from right. Still sticking with the black color ship.

 

Next part.  Now the flying birds will appear. They will start with 2*3 white and 2*3 black. Start from left with the black ship and move to the right. And after move to the left.

After that there will ne another 3 white and another 3 black. Same as above start from left to the right and stay on right for a little. Another set will respawn. The 3 white ones will stay for longer so take out the 3 black ones first then the 3 white ones. Next respawn will be 2 black, 1 white, 1 black and 2 white. Take out the 2 black ones and move over to the black one and finally shoot all 3 white ones. Next respawn starts with whites coming 1 at the time starting from right. Next will be first 2 white ones and 2 black ones. Hover to the right taking out the 2 white ones then navigate between the black ones taking out the last white one. After that shoot 3/4 black ones and use your missiles to take out the rest of black birds.

 

Next part.  A set of 3 white and black balls will respawn. Starting with white from the right. Next set is popcorn balls. The respawn is. 2 black, 2 white, 4 black, 4 white, 4 black , 4 white, 2 black and 2 white. This section can be a little tricky and you are on timer to the next respawn. So using the black color ship. Take out the 4 black balls to the left. Move over to the 2 balls on the left corner. If done right and quick enough. You can should be able to shoot now a total of 10 white balls lined up. From left to the right. If done right and fast enough again. There should be 2 white balls on right corner that needs to be taken out. Then shoot the final 6 black balls.

 

Next part. Switch to white color ship. If done the way i did it. There should respawn 3 white balls from left, 3 black balls from right and 3 white balls from left. when shooting the fina3 white ones. Try to stay a little more to the left so you don´t accidentally shoot a wrong ball on the bigger ships that have respawned. Start by shooting the big black ship on the left, along with its 2 circuling balls. After its down if you have enough meter, switch quick to the black ship and shoot your missiles taking out the white ship. After that another black and white big ship will respawn. Take em out with the opposite color ship. 

 

Next part. Again this part is depended on how quick you managed to do the former part. Switch to white color ship. Now many smaller balls will respawn. This section is also quite tricky. Since they will respawn 2 of the same color on right and the 3rd on left. So depending on which said you need to move slightly to left or right to shoot the 3rd ball to be able to chain it. This probably need some practice.

 

Next part. Still with the white color ship. There will be 1 set of 3 black birds respawning. Stay more to the left and shoot. When you go the first one move to the right and shoot the other 2. right behind em 2 white birds have respawned so get em quick before they fly away. Now a big white ship will respawn whit a total of 12 popcorn balls. They are circuling around in 3 and 3 of each color. move to the right and try to time it so you can shoot all in same row. Not messing up by shooting in the middle of em.

 

Next part. This can be very annoying as you need to zigzag through a total of 18 smalle balls. As in my video i take out all 9 white balls. After that i release missiles to get the other 9 black balls. Halfway through 2 bigger ships of each color have respawned. They have 8 smaller balls shooting on each side. Fly quick down to the left and shoot all its smallee balls with the ship as final. Now move up to the white ship and do same thing. Here its a tricky part, try to shoot it so when its down its placed in the corner left. If done right another black ship will respawn to the right. Along with some smaller ones in middle. Move up to the smaller ones and take out 6 black ones first. This can be very tricky and may require practice since you need to shoot between em whitout shooting the wrong color. After that is done take out the big ship on the same way as the other ones. When its down, switch quickly to black ship. and take out the rest of the smaller ones in the middle. Starting with 6 white ones. Then finally take out the final big white ship. Depnding how fast you do this there will respawn some extra smaller ones to get some extra chaining.   

 

You must have over 2.7 million in score to have a chance getting 3.4 million as final score which is needed for S++. Try and kill the boss without dying for maximum score. You should be getting between 640-670k from the  boss battle alone.

 

Well this took some time to wright. I hope all understands what ive been typing. And i know it looks just like a big wall of text. if you have any questions, feel free to ask. Now on my way for Chapter 2 :) 

 

 

 

Good job DP 😁😁😁

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Didn't know this game was out for PS4. Sounds awfully difficult, even if I love some of these shmups! Thought I'd just post some OSTs to get people hyped. xD

 

 

And the spiritual prequel, which so obviously has it's soundtrack done by the same guy as who did it for Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story and Final Fantasy XII:

 

 

Edited by MMDE
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Ikaruga was the hardest plat of 2018, theres no doubt in my mind about it, and Im sure many out there would agree with me.

Im hoping Treasure release Radiant Silvergun in the near future too, as I have never got to experience it. 

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Just another "hard" game that is hard only because there is no info on it and you have to come up with strategies from scratch which takes so much longer. It's the same reason many other games such as Sine Mora, Hard Corps Uprising, Wolfenstein II, and Super Meat Boy are regarded as so difficult even though they aren't. Early Wolfenstein II platters had to come up with their own strategies from scratch and most of it was ineffective, now there is speedruns where you skip half the game and complete it in a couple hours. Same for Divinity OS, you can speedrun honor mode in <2 hours with some dumb exploit. Raiden IV was considered one of the hardest until you can cheese the whole game with pausing. etc

 

Unfortunately the trophy hunting community is practically nonexistent and the few there are don't post tips anywhere. Even a game like Super Meat Boy with millions of players has very few good resources for consistent ironman strategies.

Edited by StealthMonkey43
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Ikaruga is a hard game no matter how you see it. Especially with the S++ trophies. Since its score based. Posting stratgies and vids don't necassarily mean everyone can do it easily. But its better to try and help. And this is not something i found out on my own. Its from playing, tips from friends and watching others play as well. 

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7 hours ago, StealthMonkey43 said:

Just another "hard" game that is hard only because there is no info on it and you have to come up with strategies from scratch which takes so much longer. It's the same reason many other games such as Sine Mora, Hard Corps Uprising, Wolfenstein II, and Super Meat Boy are regarded as so difficult even though they aren't. Early Wolfenstein II platters had to come up with their own strategies from scratch and most of it was ineffective, now there is speedruns where you skip half the game and complete it in a couple hours. Same for Divinity OS, you can speedrun honor mode in <2 hours with some dumb exploit. Raiden IV was considered one of the hardest until you can cheese the whole game with pausing. etc

 

Unfortunately the trophy hunting community is practically nonexistent and the few there are don't post tips anywhere. Even a game like Super Meat Boy with millions of players has very few good resources for consistent ironman strategies.

Ikaruga is 17 years old....there’s plenty of information on it.

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27 minutes ago, KaKrackle said:

Ikaruga is 17 years old....there’s plenty of information on it.

search youtube for S++ videos, there is not even half a dozen, search for even a basic text guide of easiest S++ methods or specific of S++ (beyond "chain combo"), nothing. Just because it's an old game or has millions of users is no guarantee there will be good info for it. The fact is that this may be a popular or old game but over 99% of players, just do a quick playthrough, play for a couple of hours and move on (as you should, going for some of these difficult trophies is so mind gruelingly boring I often wonder why I bother at all)

 

For example, I'm playing Tricky Towers that was a free PS+ game and has over a million players yet I can't find any sort of knowledge of about how the mechanics/physics work and how best to use the powerups. Despite being a pretty deep (as far as I can tell) game there is very little to nothing on it at all in terms of mechanics or strategy or basic tips. I literally can't even find what the damn powerups do, which is not explained in game either. 

Edited by StealthMonkey43
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I just noticed the last few posts on the front page, did a quick search & found the Ikaruga Appreciate dvd is on youtube, pretty sure that details what's needed for the ranks:

 

 

I want to post about how boring and overrated I think this game is due to how inflexible & memory based it is, the large hitbox, the music, environmental hazards in a vertical shooter, the de-emphasis of dodging etc, but the creators of Shumps I like a lot more than this one cite it as an influence so I'm glad it was made if that makes any sense. Good luck to anyone putting the time in.

 

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10 hours ago, StealthMonkey43 said:

Just another "hard" game that is hard only because there is no info on it and you have to come up with strategies from scratch which takes so much longer. It's the same reason many other games such as Sine Mora, Hard Corps Uprising, Wolfenstein II, and Super Meat Boy are regarded as so difficult even though they aren't. Early Wolfenstein II platters had to come up with their own strategies from scratch and most of it was ineffective, now there is speedruns where you skip half the game and complete it in a couple hours. Same for Divinity OS, you can speedrun honor mode in <2 hours with some dumb exploit. Raiden IV was considered one of the hardest until you can cheese the whole game with pausing. etc

 

Unfortunately the trophy hunting community is practically nonexistent and the few there are don't post tips anywhere. Even a game like Super Meat Boy with millions of players has very few good resources for consistent ironman strategies.

Oh no... Another person who says this game isn't hard despite not having plat. Looking at your list you did the easiest version on Sine Mora so saying it wasn't hard isn't anything special. You haven't played Wolfenstein 2 or Raiden IV... So gg on that.

 

This game has been out for 17 years and there's a fair amount of information on it. You can watch a 2 player Hard S++ TAS run from AGDQ which explains enough along with the leaderboards having a replay feature on ps4. I also found an A rank tutorial for all but final chapter. Also SMB has extremely useful strats online... Just by that im assuming you're a troll or someone who has a huge ego and trying to impress people by saying not hard. 

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12 hours ago, StealthMonkey43 said:

Just another "hard" game that is hard only because there is no info on it and you have to come up with strategies from scratch which takes so much longer. It's the same reason many other games such as Sine Mora, Hard Corps Uprising, Wolfenstein II, and Super Meat Boy are regarded as so difficult even though they aren't. Early Wolfenstein II platters had to come up with their own strategies from scratch and most of it was ineffective, now there is speedruns where you skip half the game and complete it in a couple hours. Same for Divinity OS, you can speedrun honor mode in <2 hours with some dumb exploit. Raiden IV was considered one of the hardest until you can cheese the whole game with pausing. etc

 

Unfortunately the trophy hunting community is practically nonexistent and the few there are don't post tips anywhere. Even a game like Super Meat Boy with millions of players has very few good resources for consistent ironman strategies.

If they aren't so difficult then why would you need info on them to plat?

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Very nicely done  @Vergil im sure this will help those that are finding certain sections hard or even the entire chapter.

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14 hours ago, StealthMonkey43 said:

Just another "hard" game that is hard only because there is no info on it and you have to come up with strategies from scratch which takes so much longer. It's the same reason many other games such as Sine Mora, Hard Corps Uprising, Wolfenstein II, and Super Meat Boy are regarded as so difficult even though they aren't. Early Wolfenstein II platters had to come up with their own strategies from scratch and most of it was ineffective, now there is speedruns where you skip half the game and complete it in a couple hours. Same for Divinity OS, you can speedrun honor mode in <2 hours with some dumb exploit. Raiden IV was considered one of the hardest until you can cheese the whole game with pausing. etc

 

Unfortunately the trophy hunting community is practically nonexistent and the few there are don't post tips anywhere. Even a game like Super Meat Boy with millions of players has very few good resources for consistent ironman strategies.

 

 

Here you have some tips for super meat boy from a lot of awesome people, if it is not so hard, now it should be no problem for you. :D

 

 

 

 

I can also link you the good video from @BigBossImBeamer for the Wolfenstein 2 mein leben run, you can then also do it by the way :)

 

Good luck and have Fun :D

 

 

B2T:

 

Ikaruga looks pretty cool, Thanks for your work @Vergil !

Edited by S_y_n_e_IR_g_Y
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Thx guys!. Like i said its not something ive come up with on my own or so. Just wanna try and make sort of a small guide for it. Anything that can help. Obviously you need to practice alot too. 

 

I will try and clean up a little since there are so many errors. It was late. I was tired and english being my 3rd language lol

Edited by Vergil
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17 hours ago, StealthMonkey43 said:

Just another "hard" game that is hard only because there is no info on it and you have to come up with strategies from scratch which takes so much longer. It's the same reason many other games such as Sine Mora, Hard Corps Uprising, Wolfenstein II, and Super Meat Boy are regarded as so difficult even though they aren't. Early Wolfenstein II platters had to come up with their own strategies from scratch and most of it was ineffective, now there is speedruns where you skip half the game and complete it in a couple hours. Same for Divinity OS, you can speedrun honor mode in <2 hours with some dumb exploit. Raiden IV was considered one of the hardest until you can cheese the whole game with pausing. etc

 

Unfortunately the trophy hunting community is practically nonexistent and the few there are don't post tips anywhere. Even a game like Super Meat Boy with millions of players has very few good resources for consistent ironman strategies.

 

This is a highly praised shmup by a classic developer in the genre and it's difficulty is well known. The game is not that complicated, it just requires a lot from you. Not just avoid bullets, but changing color to attack enemies or absorb their bullets for special attack. That's it. No upgrades or anything AFAIK. That color swap functionality adds a lot of difficulty. You can't just avoid bullets, you gotta considering your current color at all times too.

 

^ Hard mode btw.

 

And no, those other games are not considered difficult because there's no info about strategies, they are difficult because of the precision, timing, reaction and sometimes quick thinking required for it's execution. You can know exactly how others are able to do it, know it inside out, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to replicate it, that's when we call it difficult. It's not when it takes a lot of time or when a guide would make it easy.

Edited by MMDE
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9 hours ago, lilpain97 said:

Oh no... Another person who says this game isn't hard despite not having plat. Looking at your list you did the easiest version on Sine Mora so saying it wasn't hard isn't anything special. You haven't played Wolfenstein 2 or Raiden IV... So gg on that.

 

This game has been out for 17 years and there's a fair amount of information on it. You can watch a 2 player Hard S++ TAS run from AGDQ which explains enough along with the leaderboards having a replay feature on ps4. I also found an A rank tutorial for all but final chapter. Also SMB has extremely useful strats online... Just by that im assuming you're a troll or someone who has a huge ego and trying to impress people by saying not hard. 

The Sine Mora PS3 version is more difficult because it includes the challenge mode which is an additional challenge. Considering the PSV can be played on the PSTV if you want, it's the exact same thing just with no challenge mode. Additionally, I did the speedrun method for trophy unlocks which means you have to do the whole thing without using subweapons which adds to the challenge. Obviously, the "easy" difficulty of this is in context and is all relative. This is a game that was considered 10/10 hardest game ever (at a time, not so much now), but with about 50-70 hours of gameplay time, I was able to 100% it from scratch, using almost all my own methods and strategies (there was very few tips when I did it) and even using a new method to get an 11 minute leaderboard time. I mean, yes, I spent a fairly long time playing a rather short shmup game, but I am also a totally average gamer who has never been particularly skilled at games, and others can do it much faster. Even at the longest time it will take some people, it's still much shorter than many other easy, but grindy platinums (and I enjoyed the game; I never felt like it got repetitive or boring).

 

For Raiden IV, I was going to do it sometime eventually, but I played it a bit and just did not enjoy it at all, and after putting dozens of hours into Super Meat Boy, another game which I don't really enjoy (still definitely better than Raiden IV though), I just really don't feel like putting another 40-80 hours into another game that I won't enjoy a single second of just to prove a point, especially since my PS3 is packed away and I don't have much room on my desk. Additionally, PS3 trophies in general are meaningless now since people are able to just hack them with custom timestamps so there is no way to tell if they are legit (which is why the global PSN percentages are 10x higher than the PSNP percentages), and obviously the pause exploit makes the game much easier so it's really not worth it at all. I will get around to Wolfenstein II sometime in the future, and with how many resources are available, I don't see it being that difficult at all.

 

I know the game has been out for 17 years and I know the basic mechanics of the game, however, in this specific situation, you are asked to get S++ on every stage on any difficulty. First of all watching a TAS run is ridiculous, TAS is literally inputting inputs frame by frame and doing actions that are either near impossible for humans to pull off or impossible to have any kind of consistency to have for a human, even just watching a speedrun by a human player is not even that useful for many games because they frequently have hundreds of hours of experience and do actions that would be extremely difficult for someone who doesn't have their level of practice to replicate. Now, maybe in a genre where the mechanical skill ceiling is lower and the game always follows a set path, like a shmup, it might be slightly more effective, but again that is for HARD difficulty (which very likely is not the easiest to do it on since you can do it any lower difficulties) and it also doesn't tell you what the exact specifics of S++ (whether you need 100% chain only or if there is other contributing factors), or it could be doing superfluous actions that are not necessary (or doing it in a way that is harder than required) for S++

 

In regards to Super Meat Boy, yes there is a few good resources for the game (fatprinny and thanatosninja are really the only helpful ones imo), however the tips (even from thanatosninja which is by far the most thorough and useful) are much too vague and ignore key aspects of the level that will lead to frustrating deaths until they happen and you add that to your knowledge of the level. Additionally, I found many strategies myself that are much more effective that I haven't seen others use (which shouldn't be happening when a game has several million players). Sure, you can watch a video, but aside from doing a level completely and fundamentally wrong, you won't learn much because there is small factors that you don't realize are important until you run the level for yourself, or a guide may be focusing on speed over consistency, because even in speedruns, runners die multiple times as they are doing risky strategies. I intend to make a thorough text guide after I finish Super Meat Boy that I hope will help some others, but if someone took just a few hours to make some videos explaining in-depth how to consistently beat levels (which I, and anyone else who 100%'d the game, could probably do) it would make the platinum so much easier because it reduces tedium. 

Edited by StealthMonkey43
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28 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

And no, those other games are not considered difficult because there's no info about strategies, they are difficult because of the precision, timing, reaction and sometimes quick thinking required for it's execution. You can know exactly how others are able to do it, know it inside out, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to replicate it, that's when we call it difficult. It's not when it takes a lot of time or when a guide would make it easy.

I am not sure what game you are talking about specifically, but for all the games I listed they only require muscle memory (and I guess precision/timing which are the same thing and part of muscle memory); they certainly don't require reaction or quick thinking. There is literally not a single level in Super Meat Boy or part of Sine Mora or Hard Corps Uprising (or 90% of other difficult singleplayer games) that you don't just play the same way every single time. All of these games are just tedious muscle memory that have two mechanics: knowing what to do, and then implementing it. Guides help with the first part and reduce tedium and the second part is just tedious muscle memory. 

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21 minutes ago, StealthMonkey43 said:

I am not sure what game you are talking about specifically, but for all the games I listed they only require muscle memory (and I guess precision/timing which are the same thing and part of muscle memory); they certainly don't require reaction or quick thinking. There is literally not a single level in Super Meat Boy or part of Sine Mora or Hard Corps Uprising (or 90% of other difficult singleplayer games) that you don't just play the same way every single time. All of these games are just tedious muscle memory that have two mechanics: knowing what to do, and then implementing it. Guides help with the first part and reduce tedium and the second part is just tedious muscle memory. 

 

It's not just muscle memory, and not all are able to do it no matter how much they practice, and how much practice required massively varies too. Any game with random elements that doesn't just instant break or make a run definitely adds to quick thinking. No matter how much you practice some of these games, it's near impossible to do exactly the same each time, so you'll have to improvise. What you're talking about is like 6-8/10 difficulty, but these are nearer 8-10/10.

Edited by MMDE
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2 hours ago, StealthMonkey43 said:

The Sine Mora PS3 version is more difficult because it includes the challenge mode which is an additional challenge. Considering the PSV can be played on the PSTV if you want, it's the exact same thing just with no challenge mode. Additionally, I did the speedrun method for trophy unlocks which means you have to do the whole thing without using subweapons which adds to the challenge. Obviously, the "easy" difficulty of this is in context and is all relative. This is a game that was considered 10/10 hardest game ever (at a time, not so much now), but with about 50-70 hours of gameplay time, I was able to 100% it from scratch, using almost all my own methods and strategies (there was very few tips when I did it) and even using a new method to get an 11 minute leaderboard time. I mean, yes, I spent a fairly long time playing a rather short shmup game, but I am also a totally average gamer who has never been particularly skilled at games, and others can do it much faster. Even at the longest time it will take some people, it's still much shorter than many other easy, but grindy platinums (and I enjoyed the game; I never felt like it got repetitive or boring).

 

I know the game has been out for 17 years and I know the basic mechanics of the game, however, in this specific situation, you are asked to get S++ on every stage on any difficulty. First of all watching a TAS run is ridiculous, TAS is literally inputting inputs frame by frame and doing actions that are either near impossible for humans to pull off or impossible to have any kind of consistency to have for a human, even just watching a speedrun by a human player is not even that useful for many games because they frequently have hundreds of hours of experience and do actions that would be extremely difficult for someone who doesn't have their level of practice to replicate. Now, maybe in a genre where the mechanical skill ceiling is lower and the game always follows a set path, like a shmup, it might be slightly more effective, but again that is for HARD difficulty (which very likely is not the easiest to do it on since you can do it any lower difficulties) and it also doesn't tell you what the exact specifics of S++ (whether you need 100% chain only or if there is other contributing factors), or it could be doing superfluous actions that are not necessary (or doing it in a way that is harder than required) for S++

 

In regards to Super Meat Boy, yes there is a few good resources for the game (fatprinny and thanatosninja are really the only helpful ones imo), however the tips (even from thanatosninja which is by far the most thorough and useful) are much too vague and ignore key aspects of the level that will lead to frustrating deaths until they happen and you add that to your knowledge of the level. Additionally, I found many strategies myself that are much more effective that I haven't seen others use (which shouldn't be happening when a game has several million players). Sure, you can watch a video, but aside from doing a level completely and fundamentally wrong, you won't learn much because there is small factors that you don't realize are important until you run the level for yourself, or a guide may be focusing on speed over consistency, because even in speedruns, runners die multiple times as they are doing risky strategies. I intend to make a thorough text guide after I finish Super Meat Boy that I hope will help some others, but if someone took just a few hours to make some videos explaining in-depth how to consistently beat levels (which I, and anyone else who 100%'d the game, could probably do) it would make the platinum so much easier because it reduces tedium. 

In the TAS run they explain things thats why I said it's useful. 

 

Im not 100% sure you understand guides or tips... Especially for something like SMB. You're saying they are too vague about the level? If they tell you the strat and character to use and you find that vague then thats your problem. Im guessing you think a guide or tip will 100% secure the trophies even for newcomers to the game if so then no... You kinda said yourself you have to play the game yourself to make said strategy consistent... and if all these hard games are easy why would you need a guide or tips? 

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7 minutes ago, lilpain97 said:

In the TAS run they explain things thats why I said it's useful. 

 

Im not 100% sure you understand guides or tips... Especially for something like SMB. You're saying they are too vague about the level? If they tell you the strat and character to use and you find that vague then thats your problem. Im guessing you think a guide or tip will 100% secure the trophies even for newcomers to the game if so then no... You kinda said yourself you have to play the game yourself to make said strategy consistent... and if all these hard games are easy why would you need a guide or tips? 

They explain TAS processes, many runs are like this, they are more just interesting tidbits about how you can exploit the game in some way with TAS but usually offer very little help to a human player who obviously can't do individual frame inputs. 

 

It's not more difficult, it's just more tedium. It's like a collectibles guide, I mean sure you could comb every square foot of the map in GTA V looking for every collectible, or you could just use a guide so you don't spend 1000+ hours combing the environment. Obviously, that's an extreme example but for many of these more difficult games, a simple strategy that could be explained in a paragraph or a minute long video might take dozens of hours of play before it becomes apparent. Of course, unless it's a puzzle game or something similar, one specific strategy can't usually be followed 100%; you will change it in your own ways, however knowing advanced tactics and having a thorough guide of how a section of a level or a boss works goes a long way in laying the foundation to improve on your own and saves many hours of time. Obviously, easy is in the context of people acting like it's some superhuman feat that no one could ever complete;  almost anyone can do these games if they put in the effort, it is just very tedious and boring, unless you really enjoy the game and repeating the same sequence for dozens of hours. 

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1 hour ago, StealthMonkey43 said:

They explain TAS processes, many runs are like this, they are more just interesting tidbits about how you can exploit the game in some way with TAS but usually offer very little help to a human player who obviously can't do individual frame inputs. 

 

It's not more difficult, it's just more tedium. It's like a collectibles guide, I mean sure you could comb every square foot of the map in GTA V looking for every collectible, or you could just use a guide so you don't spend 1000+ hours combing the environment. Obviously, that's an extreme example but for many of these more difficult games, a simple strategy that could be explained in a paragraph or a minute long video might take dozens of hours of play before it becomes apparent. Of course, unless it's a puzzle game or something similar, one specific strategy can't usually be followed 100%; you will change it in your own ways, however knowing advanced tactics and having a thorough guide of how a section of a level or a boss works goes a long way in laying the foundation to improve on your own and saves many hours of time. Obviously, easy is in the context of people acting like it's some superhuman feat that no one could ever complete;  almost anyone can do these games if they put in the effort, it is just very tedious and boring, unless you really enjoy the game and repeating the same sequence for dozens of hours. 

 

Something is considered difficult when no matter how much you practice or how many tips you get, it's still not easy to do. I see you did N++, that's like 7-8/10 IMO, and you know why? Because it's a very doable game with enough practice. The levels are short and exactly the same over and over, it also doesn't require you to do a whole lot more than just beat most of the solo levels. Yes, it doesn't even require you to beat all the solo levels... Imagine if it was all gold, all secret requirements, even in all secret levels. That'd definitely be 9-10/10. I don't think I would have been able to do it even if I got 10 million USD for it. There's some few people who play it as if that was the case, and they're even good at the game, but I don't think anyone have yet been able to do that. Might be one or two people who are getting close though.

 

All collectibles in GTAV is not comparable because given enough time someone will do it, and there will at no point be any challenge to it. It's not something you'd need to practice. It's not something that requires something of you that others wouldn't be able to or struggle with if they set their mind to it etc, it's just time consuming and at no point challenges you.

Edited by MMDE
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22 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

Something is considered difficult when no matter how much you practice or how many tips you get, it's still not easy to do. I see you did N++, that's like 7-8/10 IMO, and you know why? Because it's a very doable game with enough practice. The levels are short and exactly the same over and over, it also doesn't require you to do a whole lot more than just beat most of the solo levels. Yes, it doesn't even require you to beat all the solo levels... Imagine if it was all gold, all secret requirements, even in all secret levels. That'd definitely be 9-10/10. I don't think I would have been able to do it even if I got 10 million USD for it. There's some few people who play it as if that was the case, and they're even good at the game, but I don't think anyone have yet been able to do that. Might be one or two people who are getting close though.

 

All collectibles in GTAV is not comparable because given enough time someone will do it, and there will at no point be any challenge to it. It's not something you'd need to practice. It's not something that requires something of you that others wouldn't be able to or struggle with if they set their mind to it etc, it's just time consuming and at no point challenges you.

N++ platinum is a 9-10 for sure. It's brutally hard, extremely long, and mentally grueling. Additionally, N++ is NOT muscle memory, only certain levels are, most levels are unique due to specific interaction with hazards that will vary from slightly different pixel movements. It requires you to be able to be react and plan on the fly. Getting true 100% is an 11/10 that truly a handful of people in the world could ever get no matter how hard they tried. 

 

It just shows that people don't have the right mentality, it's just that instead of pushing through a series of trials and always getting explicit feedback that you are advancing and improving, you instead have to practice and fail over and over until you get it. However, for vast majority of these difficult trophies, people can just get them through practice and brute force. It's no different than spending 1000 hours combing for collectibles, it just takes much less time. It's really pretty similar, and when you are doing these, you are just zoned out listening to music and not really thinking or paying attention to the game. Again, I'm average at best in games in every way, but I can do these with much less time necessary than most grindy games.

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28 minutes ago, StealthMonkey43 said:

N++ platinum is a 9-10 for sure. It's brutally hard, extremely long, and mentally grueling. Additionally, N++ is NOT muscle memory, only certain levels are, most levels are unique due to specific interaction with hazards that will vary from slightly different pixel movements. It requires you to be able to be react and plan on the fly. Getting true 100% is an 11/10 that truly a handful of people in the world could ever get no matter how hard they tried. 

 

It just shows that people don't have the right mentality, it's just that instead of pushing through a series of trials and always getting explicit feedback that you are advancing and improving, you instead have to practice and fail over and over until you get it. However, for vast majority of these difficult trophies, people can just get them through practice and brute force. It's no different than spending 1000 hours combing for collectibles, it just takes much less time. It's really pretty similar, and when you are doing these, you are just zoned out listening to music and not really thinking or paying attention to the game. Again, I'm average at best in games in every way, but I can do these with much less time necessary than most grindy games.

 

Nah, N++ it NOT 9-10/10, it's like 7-8/10 (even wrote the guide for that game). :P If you think N++ is 9-10/10, no idea how you can think this game isn't up there as well? N++ is the exact same each run, just gotta learn the paths and time stuff (your muscle memory bs). Even if you practice a lot, it's still hard to pull off, indeed, but N++ is pure 2D platforming and that's all you gotta focus on.

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2 hours ago, MMDE said:

 

Nah, N++ it NOT 9-10/10, it's like 7-8/10 (even wrote the guide for that game). :P If you think N++ is 9-10/10, no idea how you can think this game isn't up there as well? N++ is the exact same each run, just gotta learn the paths and time stuff (your muscle memory bs). Even if you practice a lot, it's still hard to pull off, indeed, but N++ is pure 2D platforming and that's all you gotta focus on.

I'm not going to say your opinion is wrong or argue about it, but N++ is an extremely long game that has dozens of extremely difficult levels that are on par with many full games in terms of difficulty. And again, it is not muscle memory; there are some levels that are purely muscle memory (I don't remember any of the names because it has been over a year since I played) where you just progress through trial and error and find the exact path/strategy you are supposed to take and it never really changes, but for the majority of levels, they are very reactive. You can't just do the same thing every time because slightly different timings whether it be how long you hold jump for or the pixel where you land, it will affect the timings of various mechanisms through the level and the hazards. Each try is unique in some way or another, and while there are strategies you can use for levels, you always have to be able to react to things.

 

I think N++ took me about 80-90 hours, which if the same person who is able to do N++ (and genuinely feels it is not very difficult) in that amount of time invested it in practicing other difficult games, I feel confident that they would be able to do them quite easily in a fraction of the time (with the exception of some longer ones like Super Meat Boy, Dariusburst, Trials Fusion, that may take 50-200+ hours depending on the person). It's really just a mentality thing, you don't need to be skilled to be able to do any of this, you just need to spend some time practicing, which is not even that much of a time investment if you play multiplayer games or grindy games because those are almost the same where you are just repeat similar actions over and over. 

 

Overall, I guess my point is that it's fine to hunt trophies for fun but you shouldn't really think you are a skilled or top player simply because you can complete some difficult feats and earn some trophies; most people simply don't want to invest (waste) time practicing over and over, and I really can't blame them.  Even for the hardest games (obviously with some exceptions) they really aren't difficult because they can be brute forced through muscle memory by any average gamer, oftentimes without much of a time investment even, through practicing for dozens of hours. 

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No one at any point in this thread declared themselves to be a top player.....  The only one coming off to be a bit of an ass is you.

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