jrdemr

Copyright law needs a major overhaul

65 posts in this topic

I don't agree with everything but I'll give you props for the effort.

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32 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

You'd be amazed at the amounts of money people will pay to legally own something, just go look at the 5 figure games on ebay.

 

Oh, I'm not saying nobody will do it, just that... you know, the average human being won't.

 

32 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

To add to this, the company who created the product gets to decide if they want to continue making their IP available for public consumption or not, no amount of 1st world entitlement is going to change that. It's too bad so sad if they pull it from the market forever, and you have the decision to not partake in purchasing it second hand, or just ignoring it forever.

 

Oh, it is entirely their prerogative if they decide to remove it from the market forever. All I'm saying is... just don't come crying if piracy for your product spikes. And since they don't want to sell it , it's not like they're losing any money anyway.

 

35 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

Also I read most of this, and it just comes down as someone who wants to justify piracy

 

I mean... yeah, I'm not going to deny it.

As I said in the main post, while I do think that you should buy stuff if you like it, I don't believe piracy should be as demonized as it is.

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Excellent post OP. I loved reading it :D I agreed with most of the arguments you presented here on why the current copyright system is all kinds of bullshit. Granted, not everyone will agree with it and, to an extent, I do think creative minds should benefit from their work and effort by wanting compensation for the work they have done.

 

The current time needed for something to enter the public domain is just hilarious and unreasonable. The examples you gave out by saying that, if the current copyright law applied since the dawn of time was totally on point. Of course, society has moved in many different ways since then but if those rules existed at that time, we would basically still be at a dark age with tons of knowledge and valuable information just lost and forgotten.

 

Corporate minds, of course, they only see profit and even in this day and age, they are just still as gullible for not preserving their own products. Many examples abound of companies just losing their own data or not storing it appropriately and this only becomes evident when they need to reuse it for whatever reason. One example that comes to mind was the Silent Hill HD debacle. When Konami had lost access to most of the assets of the original PS2 game and forced the developers, Hijinx Studio, to work from a scratch, resulting in a mediocre port on both PS3 and Xbox 360.

 

For some of us, piracy was our gateway to learning something new that we would get in love with. Coming from a poor country, if it wasn't for piracy, I wouldn't most likely be here talking to all of you. The first PC games I got where pirated and the first Nintendo consoles I saw where the cheap Chinese knock-offs that got into the market here. Why did I decide to collect games? Well, jrdemr is right. I grew so fond of gaming that I wanted to contribute to the industry in some way, shape or form. I still try to do this despite everything. That's some love right there.

 

I never stopped being a pirate, however. I still download ROMs and ISOs from the internet and got thousands of them in my hard drives. Mostly from old games as I don't personally find it appropriate to pirate the more recent stuff. Anime is another great example. I tried Crunchyroll and even though it is cheap as hell, I honestly thought it was pretty poor. Didn't have many of the shows I was looking for, the subbing was just okay and streaming wasn't really an option for me due to having to live with a shitty internet connection. What should I do? Keep paying for a service that sucks or find an alternative? There are many fansubs who do a similar, if not better, job out there and they do it for free. So, why exactly do I have to pay for a service that doesn't provide a comfortable experience for the consumer? Same applies to videogames and all other media.

 

Then again, I'm speaking from a different perspective and background from most people here on this site. Again, I'm not advocating for piracy. I think it's integral for the industry and for the creative minds, the developers, to be able to reap the benefits of their work. That way, the industry thrives and we consumers get better games in the long run (at least, that's how it should be on theory). But the way copyright works now... it's simply not fair in my eyes.

 

I think your best paragraphs were these two:

 

Quote

If a game isn’t easily available nor has it been for quite some time, I don’t see what the big deal is in making a copy for historic preservation purposes. And if the copyright holders don’t want us to make unlawful copies… then just make the bloody games easily available! You cannot have your cake and eat it too. This is actually one of the major reasons why I believe we should have a true backwards compatibility system for every major platform, one that encompasses every single platform they ever released and as many games as they can legally muster.

 

My point is: preservation should always come before profit. And just like movies and books, video games are an art form and should also be safeguarded for future generations. I’m not saying every single game ever released is a masterpiece, the same way some books and movies are nothing more than trite, but they still allow us to see what kinds of things people were doing and experimenting with at the time. You never know what will turn out to be invaluable historical information in the future. Hell, things as trivial as old storage inventory logs and tax records turned out to be invaluable information for historians!

 

In the end, though, I'm somewhere in the middle. I do think both sides have their fair share of positive and negative arguments that can be made out and, in regards to being right or wrong, well, I think both sides are right in the end. :P

 

Congrats on making such a great post @jrdemr I feel you really went out of your way in laying out your thoughts here and actually brought over some interesting and properly researched topics into the table. Props to you for that. 👍

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5 hours ago, SnowxSakura said:

You'd be amazed at the amounts of money people will pay to legally own something, just go look at the 5 figure games on ebay.

 

I do love consumers like that because they actually think paying someone lots of money to own the actual game is more legit than an emulator. 

 

Nintendo didn't get the money from you buying Earthbound on eBay so what is the difference than if you just downloaded a rom? 

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@Honor_Hand Oh, so you support the cause of companies losing money thanks to piracy? I don't support piracy, not one bit. Piracy is what ruining companies. I always buys stuff the legal way, even through subscriptions  While roms and emulators are okay, piracy is not okay at all. Piracy should be banned from the web forever and forgive me for being harsh on this, but those who resort to piracy or support it, should be arrested, declared guilty without a trial and locked away forever.

 

I'm sorry, but piracy disgusts me so much that I feel it isn't right. This topic reminds of those fools from Nintendo Life who think piracy is AOK. Piracy may be okay to some, but it's also not so okay to many others who want to buy games the honest way.

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2 minutes ago, MMX20 said:

I'm sorry, but piracy disgusts me so much that I feel it isn't right. This topic reminds of those fools from Nintendo Life who think piracy is AOK. Piracy may be okay to some, but it's also not so okay to many others who want to buy games the honest way.

 

Funny, considering how I've never pirated a single game in my life. Every game I ever had is right there on display on the second picture I took (even though you might not be able to see all of them due to just how many of them there are 😅 )

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Just now, jrdemr said:

 

Funny, considering how I've never pirated a single game in my life. Every game I ever had is right there on display on the second picture I took (even though you might not be able to see all of them due to just how many of them there are 1f605.png )

Well, I understand, but I don't agree with your post about piracy not being demonized. Piracy is a crime and I don't really like it. Since you never pirated games, I guess I can let it go, but again, I don't agree with your post about piracy not being demonized.

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Just now, Cave_Johnson_ said:

 

 

Reading is hard.

Heh, you got me there. But again, I don't support piracy.

 

@Honor_Hand Sorry for the misunderstanding. I know you need to resort to piracy and after reading what Cave_Johnson said, I agree. I know you don't like the way copyright is right now, but I understand you're from a poor country and need to do what you feel is right to you. So forgive me for the misunderstand about this.

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1 minute ago, MMX20 said:

Well, I understand, but I don't agree with your post about piracy not being demonized. Piracy is a crime and I don't really like it. Since you never pirated games, I guess I can let it go, but again, I don't agree with your post about piracy not being demonized.

 

And it's your right to do so.

 

To be fair, I also expected this topic to be polarizing. Some people tend to be more on the side of companies while others are more for consumer's rights and a more liberal approach to law. And just like with politics and religion, piracy also tends to be one of those subjects that people have really strong opinions on. But it's fine. I just wanted to put my thoughts out into the open and as long as it fosters discussion, I'll consider myself satisfied.

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1 minute ago, jrdemr said:

 

And it's your right to do so.

 

To be fair, I also expected this topic to be polarizing. Some people tend to be more on the side of companies while others are more for consumer's rights and a more liberal approach to law. And just like with politics and religion, piracy also tends to be one of those subjects that people have really strong opinions on. But it's fine. I just wanted to put my thoughts out into the open and as long as it fosters discussion, I'll consider myself satisfied.

I understand. Everyone needs to speak out their feelings at some point or the other.

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12 minutes ago, MMX20 said:

@Honor_Hand Oh, so you support the cause of companies losing money thanks to piracy? I don't support piracy, not one bit. Piracy is what ruining companies. I always buys stuff the legal way, even through subscriptions  While roms and emulators are okay, piracy is not okay at all. Piracy should be banned from the web forever and forgive me for being harsh on this, but those who resort to piracy or support it, should be arrested, declared guilty without a trial and locked away forever.

 

I'm sorry, but piracy disgusts me so much that I feel it isn't right. This topic reminds of those fools from Nintendo Life who think piracy is AOK. Piracy may be okay to some, but it's also not so okay to many others who want to buy games the honest way.

I don't support the cause of companies losing money. Again, I stated above that everyone should receive fair compensation for their work. What I don't support is companies mistreating their consumers and the industry in itself with bad practices by not respecting their own work. Video games, as an art form, should be protected. Either by the companies or by whoever is willing to. The current copyright laws don't allow for people, out of their own goodwill, to protect this creative work.

 

I understand people lost money when they are not paid by their work. I certainly wouldn't like others to benefit from a work they didn't do. It's similar to thievery and shouldn't be condoned but I wouldn't throw all pirates in jail without even a trial for their "crimes". The world itself as it is has bigger problems than those (like homicide, corruption, war, rape, etcetera) to use jails to incarcerate people that pirate software.

 

5 minutes ago, MMX20 said:

 

@Honor_Hand Sorry for the misunderstanding. I know you need to resort to piracy and after reading what Cave_Johnson said, I agree. I know you don't like the way copyright is right now, but I understand you're from a poor country and need to do what you feel is right to you. So forgive me for the misunderstand about this.

1

 

It's alright. It's not the same for all us. Believe me that, if I had the means to purchase and collect all games legal, I would do so. Sadly, that's not fully the case. Our backgrounds are different. People here have enough trouble feeding themselves, let alone would think about giving what little money they earn to a corporation that is not giving them a proper service. That being said, I only download ROMs and ISOS from old games. All the current stuff, I make a great effort to buy them. I also have a nice shelve of games. Some of them bought second hand, some new. Same goes with anime, I own a very humble selection of manga and have even imported a number of figures from Japan. ^_^ It's not like we don't want to support the industry or what we love, is just that it is sometimes incredibly difficult for us to do so.

 

But yeah, the topic is extremely polarizing and feelings will be involved in one way or another. ;)

 

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Dr_Mayus said:

I do love consumers like that because they actually think paying someone lots of money to own the actual game is more legit than an emulator. 

 

Nintendo didn't get the money from you buying Earthbound on eBay so what is the difference than if you just downloaded a rom? 

Here's the difference, as quoted by nintendo's own legal page

 

"

People Making Nintendo Emulators and Nintendo ROMs are Helping Publishers by Making Old Games Available that are No Longer Being Sold by the Copyright Owner. This Does Not Hurt Anyone and Allows Gamers to Play Old Favorites. What's the Problem?

The problem is that it's illegal. Copyrights and trademarks of games are corporate assets. If these vintage titles are available far and wide, it undermines the value of this intellectual property and adversely affects the right owner. In addition, the assumption that the games involved are vintage or nostalgia games is incorrect. Nintendo is famous for bringing back to life its popular characters for its newer systems, for example, Mario and Donkey Kong have enjoyed their adventures on all Nintendo platforms, going from coin-op machines to our latest hardware platforms. As a copyright owner, and creator of such famous characters, only Nintendo has the right to benefit from such valuable assets."

 

https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom

 

It all comes down to the fact that downloading ROMs are ILLEGAL, second hand goods are not

Edited by SnowxSakura
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5 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

Here's the difference, as quoted by nintendo's own legal page

 

"

People Making Nintendo Emulators and Nintendo ROMs are Helping Publishers by Making Old Games Available that are No Longer Being Sold by the Copyright Owner. This Does Not Hurt Anyone and Allows Gamers to Play Old Favorites. What's the Problem?

The problem is that it's illegal. Copyrights and trademarks of games are corporate assets. If these vintage titles are available far and wide, it undermines the value of this intellectual property and adversely affects the right owner. In addition, the assumption that the games involved are vintage or nostalgia games is incorrect. Nintendo is famous for bringing back to life its popular characters for its newer systems, for example, Mario and Donkey Kong have enjoyed their adventures on all Nintendo platforms, going from coin-op machines to our latest hardware platforms. As a copyright owner, and creator of such famous characters, only Nintendo has the right to benefit from such valuable assets."

 

https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom

 

It all comes down to the fact that downloading ROMs are ILLEGAL, second hand goods are not

Well it is a good thing  I don't download ROMs...but you also have to remember that most of these people that resell on eBay don't pay taxes and that is illegal.

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Posted (edited)

16 minutes ago, Dr_Mayus said:

Well it is a good thing  I don't download ROMs...but you also have to remember that most of these people that resell on eBay don't pay taxes and that is illegal.

Paypal automatically reports income over 20,000$ to the IRS when you sell on ebay, even between multiple seller accounts. The IRS will also report that same income to your state's government for local taxes. You will also receive a 1099K in the mail to fill out.

 

"

Internal Revenue Code (IRC) Section 6050W states that all US payment processors, including PayPal, are required by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to provide information to the IRS about certain customers who receive payments for the sale of goods or services through PayPal.

PayPal is required to report gross payments received for sellers who receive over $20,000 in gross payment volume AND over 200 separate payments in a calendar year. In order to help you understand these information reporting obligations, we have prepared the following FAQs. After reviewing the following FAQs, we recommend you consult your tax advisor to assess tax implications of Form 1099-K reporting."

 

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/irs6050w

 

not sure how it goes for other countries though

Edited by SnowxSakura
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I mean... Regardless of how successful your company is or how filthy rich you are, I wouldn't want somebody stealing my ideas or hard work that got me to this position and bank on it. So yea imo the hard crackdown on piracy as well as copying someone else's work is warranted and justified regardless of the outcome. 

 

It's also rule #1 in the education system. Don't plagiarize. 

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9 minutes ago, PooPooBlast said:

I mean... Regardless of how successful your company is or how filthy rich you are, I wouldn't want somebody stealing my ideas or hard work that got me to this position and bank on it. So yea imo the hard crackdown on piracy as well as copying someone else's work is warranted and justified regardless of the outcome. 

 

It's also rule #1 in the education system. Don't plagiarize. 

Yeah, that's why my piggy avatar and everything is legitimately my own creation so I wont be called out for plagiarizing anyones character or anything. But those rules/laws are different right?

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1 hour ago, MMX20 said:

@Honor_Hand Oh, so you support the cause of companies losing money thanks to piracy? I don't support piracy, not one bit. Piracy is what ruining companies. I always buys stuff the legal way, even through subscriptions  While roms and emulators are okay, piracy is not okay at all. Piracy should be banned from the web forever and forgive me for being harsh on this, but those who resort to piracy or support it, should be arrested, declared guilty without a trial and locked away forever.

 

I'm sorry, but piracy disgusts me so much that I feel it isn't right. This topic reminds of those fools from Nintendo Life who think piracy is AOK. Piracy may be okay to some, but it's also not so okay to many others who want to buy games the honest way.

 

 

I'll take the jailtime if you take the public flogging for enabling the absolute vast amount of greed prevalent in the videogames industry, an industry mind you, that has taken to taking out content of games that are finished and selling them back to you as a consumer piecemeal.

 

On topic though I used to pirate when I simply couldn't afford buying all the games more or less blind (this was before I learned to understand what a game was like before release or something) and with demos rapidly dying out I instead pirated the game, played until I was satisfied and deleted it. Once I got a job I ended up buying the games I've previously pirated to a massive degree. Don't regret it a second.

 

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