OPINION: Don’t share play the challenge trophy.

[omnx-supak]

Hey everyone!

I completed the game today and I can agree that the final challenge was/is hard but I can also say at the same time the challenge is very doable. It took me around 4 hours. So I ask the players that still haven’t earned the trophy don’t ask to share play with a person that has achieved the trophy. This trophy is hard for a reason it’s not meant to be passed around. I’m really glad the glitches/cheese don’t work anymore. Are you a trophy hunter/gamer that actually hunts for trophies or a show-off player that asks other players to get the trophy for them when they don’t want to have the effort. One thing is boosting trophies with others (in the end you are playing the game) but asking for someone to do it for you, really? This goes for any game. Like cmon. 

[Sergen]

This isn't going to stop people from wanting to share play. Every "hard" trophy has illegitimate achievers who cave in and beg other people to do the work for them, that's always how it's gonna be and you can't change that.

[aZombieDictator]

IMO you shouldn't shareplay anything. If you can't achieve it yourself why would you even want it on your trophy list? But people will shareplay and take the easy way no matter what, even paying people to get trophies. It's something that will happen forever.

[Arcesius]

This is a puzzle game. Why people would play this with a guide is beyond me, yet many do, so who am I to say it shouldn't be done...

Same with shareplay. To me, a trophy is something that shows that I have accomplished something. If that "something" is due to someone else, then what's the point? 

 

Anyways, this plat was already at 13% before the game was on PS+, so it's not like it's prestigious or anything. Personally, I am happy that I got this plat without consulting a guide, but I'm also the only one that knows that for sure. I play for myself anyways, not for other people, so that's enough for me. 

[TheYuriG]

People gonna shareplay, people will take the easiest route when possible. Trying to shame or dissuade them from doing so won't stop them. I don't personally care about getting trophies for games that I cannot enjoy, but some people care more about trophies than they care about the experience and that's fine too. Gaming currently is so varied that it can catter to both the people who enjoy experiences like me and the people that are so meta that play games JUST to get trophies. There is place for everyone.

Just now, Arcesus7 said:

I play for myself anyways, not for other people, so that's enough for me. 

This is truly beautiful.

[Senor_T_Dub]

While I disagree with SharePlay for earning trophies, I think we should let people play games however they like within the TOS and without hacking. Not worth getting upset over another players choices.

[shopo]

I won't even try The Witness because I suck so bad in those kind of games. And I'm sure this is a great puzzle game but it is not for everyone I guess, because you need patience, logic and being smart as fuck to complete it lol

[TheBlaskar]

honestly I hadn't even considered the possibility of share-play unlocking this trophy. definitely not going to, but it's fascinating that it's a possibility

[omnx-supak]

19 hours ago, Arcesus7 said:

This is a puzzle game. Why people would play this with a guide is beyond me, yet many do, so who am I to say it shouldn't be done...

Same with shareplay. To me, a trophy is something that shows that I have accomplished something. If that "something" is due to someone else, then what's the point? 

 

Anyways, this plat was already at 13% before the game was on PS+, so it's not like it's prestigious or anything. Personally, I am happy that I got this plat without consulting a guide, but I'm also the only one that knows that for sure. I play for myself anyways, not for other people, so that's enough for me. 

Same here dude, I know that because of the previous rest mode glitch a lot of people did the trophy but I’m really glad I didn’t use a guide as well. 

[omnx-supak]

19 hours ago, shopo said:

I won't even try The Witness because I suck so bad in those kind of games. And I'm sure this is a great puzzle game but it is not for everyone I guess, because you need patience, logic and being smart as fuck to complete it lol

What is being smart? Bro you can do it. We put limits in our heads. SuperMeatBoy is impossible, Dark Souls and Bloodborne are hard but anything is truly possible with persistence, just like the The Witness, there are a few puzzles that are hard but the game itself it’s easy because you have no time limit. You can do the puzzles in any order you want. Draw them on a piece of paper and do different combinations. When you learn the mechanics of a puzzle it will become easier and imo if you really are stuck use a guide but just for that puzzle, see what you did wrong, try to comprehend the mechanic. By the time you reach the Challenge you will have tons of practice that will allow you to get the trophy in 30min to 4hours depending how good you are and the luck you have. The challenge is luck based. I noticed that there were times where the game would give me almost impossible patterns (they are always possible though) to figure out since it is random and there were times that the same puzzles in a different run I did them in 5, 10 seconds. 

19 hours ago, NekoRave said:

OP

 

Will you shareplay this with me?

Haha, don’t know if you are actually being serious or being sarcastic either way hilarious. 

[Valyrious]

20 hours ago, aZombieDictator said:

IMO you shouldn't shareplay anything. If you can't achieve it yourself why would you even want it on your trophy list? But people will shareplay and take the easy way no matter what, even paying people to get trophies. It's something that will happen forever.

You're not wrong, but is there any pride in unlocking trophies if you follow a guide to a T? Technically they're doing the work, but the foundation was laid out by someone else and you're just following what they do. Especially if you figure out a cheese method to do something that would otherwise be difficult.

Trophy collecting in general is so tedious.

[omnx-supak]

23 hours ago, Valyrious said:

You're not wrong, but is there any pride in unlocking trophies if you follow a guide to a T? Technically they're doing the work, but the foundation was laid out by someone else and you're just following what they do. Especially if you figure out a cheese method to do something that would otherwise be difficult.

Trophy collecting in general is so tedious.

You are also right but they are totally different things, when using shareplay someone is getting the trophy for you, you are not playing but with a guide they are just telling you a layout on what to do, you still have to do it yourself (just reading and using a The Evil Within guide won’t get you the platinum because it is hard) trophy guide writers are like coaches. Just like in soccer, you know how to play but your coach is telling you to play on that side, go through that way, bla bla bla...

[thecman_25]

People can shareplay if they want lol 

[its_ArchroniX]

I don't see anything wrong with shareplaying to get a certain trophy.

 

In some way we all cheat by even looking up what to do to get trophies on PSN in the first place or looking up guides to find collectibles or methods in order to achieve them. Why would share playing be an exception to that?I can get behind the whole 'it's not rewarding if you don't do it yourself' but it's nearly impossible in any game to get ALL the trophies without having to look up what the trophies are in the first place.

 

Compare it to a test in school. You could persuade your classmate to make the test for you, getting a straight A. Or you can look up the answers to the test beforehand and get a straight A. It's both cheating in some way and one isn't better or worse than the other.

 

Besides, how many games have trophies were you need to beat a certain level on the hardest game mode, and players let others carry them to the win? Isn't that the same principle? And what do most players do in a game like this when they get stuck? Putting the game down for a year or so, hoping to return after that year with the solution on your own? No. People will look up the solution for it so they can move on. And the funny thing is, litteraly every trophy in The Witness is a hiddden one so nobody would even know about the Challenge trophy if we didn't all look up the trophy list in  the first place.

 

I still need the Challenge trophy (and the Platinum of course) in The Witness and after trying to get if myself for over a year now I'm looking for someone to do it for me as I'm well aware I'm not able to do it myself. And I don't see any harm in doing so.

Edited September 10, 2020 by its_ArchroniX

[me_is_caveman]

On 3/13/2019 at 7:25 AM, Valyrious said:

You're not wrong, but is there any pride in unlocking trophies if you follow a guide to a T? Technically they're doing the work, but the foundation was laid out by someone else and you're just following what they do. Especially if you figure out a cheese method to do something that would otherwise be difficult.

Trophy collecting in general is so tedious.

Saying that following a trophy guide is cheating is like saying studying for a test at school is cheating. It's not cheating, it's preparation.

[pinkrobot_pb]

13 hours ago, me_is_caveman said:

Saying that following a trophy guide is cheating is like saying studying for a test at school is cheating. It's not cheating, it's preparation.

Wrong comparison. Using a guide for a puzzle game is like making a test with the answers right next to it.

 

Edit: to clarify, I have nothing against using guides for puzzle games, I use them whenever I get stuck so long that it is starting to annoy me. Latest example: Access Denied. I would never have thought the game's only intention was mocking the whole concept of puzzle games with its last two puzzles.

 

And SharePlay is just a feature, trophies can be earned with it. It's fine by Sony and it's fine for this site. So the best thing to do is this: try and deal with it to the best of your abilities.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by pinkrobot_pb

[LoveInHell]

Hmm, reading the responses...

 

I wouldn’t instantly look up a guide when starting any game but for a puzzle game it feels even weirder to do. A puzzle game is challenging and it requires a lot of thinking and remembering, usually it takes a few or a lot of tries - that’s fine because it’s a puzzle. Otherwise it wouldn’t be called a puzzle, right? ?

 

But... when trying multiple times and you can literally just not figure it out after trying so hard (like I have been struggling a few times in the Nonary games because I have dyscalculia) then it’s fine to look up the solution for that one puzzle, then continue on your own again.

 

As for Shareplaying to get a certain trophy, I can’t say nothing cause I have done that once myself on Batman Arkham Knight. I think it’s fine... if you put 99% of hard work into it and just need a hand for that 1% you can’t do.

Edited March 14, 2021 by LoveInHell

[DrBloodmoney]

10 hours ago, LoveInHell said:

Hmm, reading the responses...

 

I wouldn’t instantly look up a guide when starting any game but for a puzzle game it feels even weirder to do. A puzzle game is challenging and it requires a lot of thinking and remembering, usually it takes a few or a lot of tries - that’s fine because it’s a puzzle. Otherwise it wouldn’t be called a puzzle, right?

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. ?

 

 

10 hours ago, LoveInHell said:

But... when trying multiple times and you can literally just not figure it out after trying so hard (like I have been struggling a few times in the Nonary games because I have dyscalculia) then it’s fine to look up the solution for that one puzzle, then continue on your own again.

 

I agree with this sentiments for 99% of games, but not for The Witness, for a very specific reason.

 

While many puzzle games are challenging because of a combination of different factors, the puzzles in The Witness are only actually puzzles because of the mystery of what the different symbols mean. The entire concept of the game is about figuring out, through different means and through trial and error or connecting different information, the meaning of the symbols.

Once you know what they mean, actually using that info to solve each individual puzzle is not difficult at all - there is no time factor, or skill factor or even different methods of input or ways of looking at the input grid. There is only working out the symbol meanings.

 

The 'puzzle' is that mystery. 

 

That means that the problem with looking up a particular puzzle in The Witness, is that one of two things will happen:

 

1. You will find out what a symbol means.

That will ruin all future puzzles that use that symbol, thus breaking much more of the game than just the single puzzle you were having an issue with, and it makes looking up one single puzzle in the game very dangerous for people who want to play the game as intended, but have just gotten stuck and frustrated at one little part. They are liable to destroy the whole game by accident.

 

2. You will find the solution, but not what the symbol means.

That means you will pass that specific puzzle, but not know why, or how you did it. You will not learn what that puzzle was trying to teach you - either about what a symbol means, or how a symbol interacts with another one.

This means you will be unable to complete future puzzles, as you will have bypassed the point where you were supposed to learn something at the point you were supposed to - virtually guaranteeing the you will be in a situation where you need to look up more and more stuff in the future, at which point, again, eventually, you will stumble into in situation 1.

 

 

 

10 hours ago, LoveInHell said:

As for Shareplaying to get a certain trophy, I can’t say nothing cause I have done that once myself on Batman Arkham Knight. I think it’s fine... if you put 99% of hard work into it and just need a hand for that 1% you can’t do.

 

Again, I don't have an issue with this sentiment - I don't share-play myself, but I can see the point of view.... again though... except in the case of The Witness.

 

The reason being, The Witness has only one trophy that cannot be completely bypassed by using a guide or just looking up a list of what the symbols mean. 

 

The entire game could be completed in a matter of a couple of hours, if someone was to just look up a list of symbol meanings and break the game, so there is only one trophy that requires any sort of understanding of the mechanics - the one in question here. 

 

I'm not some gatekeeping douche who believes all games should have trophy lists that are rock-solid and only some 'gaming elite' should gain a platinum, but in a game as good as The Witness, I do think there should be some kind of trophy in there that blocks access to the platinum for people who chose to just literally walk through the game with a list of solutions.

 

There should be at least one trophy that requires someone to become at least a little familiar with the act of... you know.... solving puzzles!

 

The comparison to Arkham Knight is not really the same, since - as you say - when you did share-play for one of those (I'm assuming one of the ones in that 'Community Challenge Pack'? - God those were a nightmare!,) you had already put in a tremendous amount of work to get to the point of almost completion, and just needed a little help at the very end.

 

You had already run the marathon - you just needed a helping hand over the finish line.

 

In the case of The Witness, that one trophy is the entire race.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by DrBloodmoney