Your ranking means nothing

[Cassylvania]

Well, by definition, your ranking does mean something, since it's based on actual statistics. The "opinion" stuff comes into play when you start creating artificial ways to compare profiles, like ignoring stacked games or easy platinums.

 

Either way, it's just one of many pointless numbers on this site. Cool to look at, but nothing to get worked up over.

[XLordXNightmareX]

1 hour ago, Sicho said:

Remember back in the day, when Arcade machines had high scores? They also meant "nothing" as in they aren't important and won't solve any of the worlds problems or whatever... but we loved to be on them anyway. In the realm of entertainment, high scores can be a means to compete or to be entertained. Same with Trophy ranks. Like with many forms of entertainment, it's what you yourself make out of it. Trophy ranks might never be important in the big picture of humanity, but for an individual, it can be important.

 

For some reason, this part of what you said reminds me of the segment of "Ready Player One" where people forget about solving all the worlds problems and settled in to the ultimate VR world instead

[HellMoodCole]

4 hours ago, Sega-Ryudo said:

My Wish is one Trophy List for all Plattforms.

No, let's just count the trophies that I have in my collection and nothing else.
 

On 16.3.2019 at 9:02 PM, Demon--Prototype said:

People work their ass off to be at the ranking they’re at, not to mention their completion and rarity at the same time.

Do you really just said playing video games is work? I have to renew my definition of work then. 

I'm sure you're an honest player but you shouldn't speak for others. If you really believe it's hard to keep your rank, having a high completion rate or many ultra rare trophies then you're just naive. Having team accounts or buying trophies isn't hard at all.

[BG_painter]

12 hours ago, BB-BakkerJ said:

I really don’t get all this hate towards @Spaz. I think he is right. Although there are plenty of similar threads like this so I kind of think it wasn’t necessary. I don’t really care about the leaderboards myself, as I see it as swimming against an uphill stream, I get surpassed all the time by people who stack the Ezpz games. I try to remain in the top 100 of my country, but it’s a matter of time before I drop out of it again, which wouldn’t bother me at all. I’m more impressed by which games people played, than their leaderboard ranking. So a shout out to the UR hunters, Although not my thing, very impressive!

Exactaly. Guy can't come to a trophy forum talk about trophy. He is being judged by everybody, they are even judginghis personal life. It's ridiculous. Don't like the thread don't post on it, leave it for the ppl that want to engage in good conversation. Some ppl really have a problem with an opinion that is different from the majority.

 

Regarding the topic, I watch leaderboards for fun, but i don't care for it.

Edited March 18, 2019 by BG_painter

[homleshobo]

On 3/16/2019 at 1:57 AM, Spaz said:

The title will probably offend a few people who like to stack a lot of games. This is just my opinion. 

 

In my eyes, the leaderboards mean nothing. Your ranking means nothing. The only measures of the rankings are how long somebody plays every day and how long they’ve been hunting. 

 

I’m currently rank 7000 something and I didn’t even try to get to that ranking. I just play a lot of different games, although my pace has slowed down thanks to college studies and the overburden of work. 

 

I’ll make this brief. I don’t think many people care about their ranking, and that’s what matters because I played for rankings in the past and got burnt out on it. Fun and competing for rank don’t mix. 

 

The rankings equate to quantity over quality. It’s pointless, they mean nothing, and after playing for virtual achievements for many years I am considering quitting when I’m around 10,000 - 12,000 trophies. 

 

10,000 - 12,000 trophies with around 300 - 400 games can be admirable. Going for the high stage serves no purpose, it’s just extra padding. 

 

What do you all think?

thanks captain obvious....

[AJ_Radio]

On 3/16/2019 at 3:51 PM, VirtualNight said:

There is no real gaming talent involved in trophy hunting, just dedication, patience and organization, either for doing hundreads of Visual Novels or ultra rare trophies; trophies are just a hobby. And to avoid a misunderstading there is no need to go for "hard" games to reach the top , just spam easy games and stacks.

 

This is true.

 

I think the only games that require a great deal of skill in addition to dedication, patience and organization would be stuff like Cloudberry Kingdom and Crypt of the Necrodancer. Those games however are very niche, they appeal to a specific audience.

 

I have not played Super Meat Boy in quite some time but I realized that it's trophy list isn't as terrifying or extremely difficult as I initially thought. But I've played platformers for a very long time so I knew exactly what I was getting into when I got the game.

 

The only "talent" I typically see for anything involving gaming are the guys who are on those Speedrun competitions on YouTube. That takes a great measure of skill as they try to complete a game in as fast of time as possible. Those guys I can admire and have a little respect towards.

 

But for the majority of us, our trophy lists aren't any measure of talent. A 14 year old kid can do most of the games I've completed, who has a lot less gaming experience than I do. We gain experience as we age and as we play more games. But that doesn't mean we're talented. I'm just an average guy who just loves to play video games, and trophy hunting is just icing on top of the cake.

 

I play a lot of games on Steam and I couldn't care less for it's achievement system. But I think the idea of having to go for "hard" games or spamming easy games and stacks is quite frankly stupid. It's mostly a numbers game, as Hakoom himself would probably tell you.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Spaz

[ughrora]

Simply put, just let people do what they enjoy. If it makes people happy, who cares? Don't worry about what other people do, just do what makes you content and/or happy. 

[iHateTrophys]

Agree with threadopener. Trophies are meaningless. Gaming is waste of time. Life give you so much more as sitting in front of your tv. I mostly got my vita with me, like now who i visit Thailand, but each time when i played on my ps4 i feeling like, i have wasted my time.

 

Each time someone who is proud of getting xy number of plats, it shows he s a looser. If people proud of earning many trophies, you can be sure they have no familiy and no real goals in their job. Before i sold 2017 hundreds of Bitcoins and made millions of euros i was be proud of huge number of trophies. But sometimes in life, you need to get something better, to see how meaningless other things was. 

 

 

[fisty123]

1 hour ago, Spaz said:

 

This is true.

 

I think the only games that require a great deal of skill in addition to dedication, patience and organization would be stuff like Cloudberry Kingdom and Crypt of the Necrodancer. Those games however are very niche, they appeal to a specific audience.

 

I have not played Super Meat Boy in quite some time but I realized that it's trophy list isn't as terrifying or extremely difficult as I initially thought. But I've played platformers for a very long time so I knew exactly what I was getting into when I got the game.

 

The only "talent" I typically see for anything involving gaming are the guys who are on those Speedrun competitions on YouTube. That takes a great measure of skill as they try to complete a game in as fast of time as possible. Those guys I can admire and have a little respect towards.

 

But for the majority of us, our trophy lists aren't any measure of talent. A 14 year old kid can do most of the games I've completed, who has a lot less gaming experience than I do. We gain experience as we age and as we play more games. But that doesn't mean we're talented. I'm just an average guy who just loves to play video games, and trophy hunting is just icing on top of the cake.

 

I play a lot of games on Steam and I couldn't care less for it's achievement system. But I think the idea of having to go for "hard" games or spamming easy games and stacks is quite frankly stupid. It's mostly a numbers game, as Hakoom himself would probably tell you.

Since when has gaming been about talent? I use gaming to escape from the usual everyday life and like getting the trophies as a reward in doing so. As for your talent list all you are doing is listing over the top hard games, there is more to a game then just how hard it is, if there was not then why the hell are PC gamers going on about framerate and best graphics because the games you listed don't even come close to these markets.

As for Speedruns, 70% of speedruns are watching someone else do a speedrun over and over and then trying to somehow get a couple of second better time then the video they are watching, sure there is a "talent" here but most of them are not passing the game first time for themselves nor are they playing the game like it is intended to you know enjoying the story and taking in the graphics. If having a "talent" requires you to spend money on a game your not even enjoying the story or game then these are no different from people who are skipping VN's for trophies.
Gamers skip VN or easy stacks for trophies - Speedrunners play a game the way it should not be played to be number one on... wait.. for it... a leaderboard, beyond this (and the ones who do it for charity) using your words it would have no really meaning as they are not number one, they watched someone else do it and tried to beat it but failed.

No I am not having a go at speedruners and full credit to them for the amount work they put into it, I am trying to make a point using words Spaz has said against another type of gamer, in the end we all play games for different reasons, some want as many trophies as possible, some want to do a game as fast as possible, some want to view girls with the boob bounce setting and so on.
Who are you to say your ranking means nothing, are you the god of gamers, do you own the rights to how we play games? No i don't think you do, if you don't like it then you can leave because this site is still used more as a trophy tracking site then the forums itself.

Edited March 18, 2019 by fisty123

[patrickogorman19]

We need a new leaderboard system.

[dmland12]

Gasp!  *holds hands over my ranking's ears*

 

Don't listen to the bad man.  You're precious to me.  So very precious.

 

Seriously though, while I only half agree with you on this Spaz, I do think it's pretty funny how you got a lot of higher ranking people to come in here and defend their rank. 

[Nitro]

1 hour ago, fisty123 said:

Since when has gaming been about talent? I use gaming to escape from the usual everyday life and like getting the trophies as a reward in doing so. As for your talent list all you are doing is listing over the top hard games, there is more to a game then just how hard it is, if there was not then why the hell are PC gamers going on about framerate and best graphics because the games you listed don't even come close to these markets.

As for Speedruns, 70% of speedruns are watching someone else do a speedrun over and over and then trying to somehow get a couple of second better time then the video they are watching, sure there is a "talent" here but most of them are not passing the game first time for themselves nor are they playing the game like it is intended to you know enjoying the story and taking in the graphics. If having a "talent" requires you to spend money on a game your not even enjoying the story or game then these are no different from people who are skipping VN's for trophies.
Gamers skip VN or easy stacks for trophies - Speedrunners play a game the way it should not be played to be number one on... wait.. for it... a leaderboard, beyond this (and the ones who do it for charity) using your words it would have no really meaning as they are not number one, they watched someone else do it and tried to beat it but failed.

No I am not having a go at speedruners and full credit to them for the amount work they put into it, I am trying to make a point using words Spaz has said against another type of gamer, in the end we all play games for different reasons, some want as many trophies as possible, some want to do a game as fast as possible, some want to view girls with the boob bounce setting and so on.
Who are you to say your ranking means nothing, are you the god of gamers, do you own the rights to how we play games? No i don't think you do, if you don't like it then you can leave because this site is still used more as a trophy tracking site then the forums itself.

On that note, I think that's the final nail in the coffin for this thread. Well said, Fisty!

[KaiserVendrix]

@fisty123 No coming back form that burn, very well said. 

[Sicho]

3 hours ago, Spaz said:

It's mostly a numbers game, as Hakoom himself would probably tell you.

 

well, this numbers game got him into the Guinness Book. Is an entry in the Guinness Book worth something? Again, this depends on the individual. What is true though is that probably 99,9 % of us will never be featured in that book, no matter if it's for gaming or sports or something else.

So he reached a goal most humans will never reach. But, at the same time, most humans never set out to reach the goal of being featured in the Guinness Book. Is this goal therefore unimportant or worth nothing? It surely doesn't help with world hunger or heals AIDS... but are only "important" things worth pursuing? Are only undertakings that are better for the whole of humanity worth undertaking?

 

Isn't having fun and enjoying life in what ever form one likes just as important? John Wanamaker said "People who cannot find time for recreation are obliged sooner or later to find time for illness." Gaming is a form of recreation. Competition can be a form of recreation. Ergo: Gaming competition - in all its forms - is a recreation. Speed running, trophy hunting, e-sports, tournaments etc. all are fundamentally a quest for fun and a good time.

 

So, long story short: if people have fun hunting trophies, don't be a killjoy! If you don't have fun with it, find something else. It's not the end of the world. But don't try to convince everyone that it isn't fun. Fun is subjective.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Sicho

[GUDGER666]

I don't care about ranking, is there any legit rankings in gaming? To me all it means is how much of your life have you wasted and how addicted are you. I would love to know who the actual legit No1 trophy hunter is. 

[DARKB1KE]

OP has some guts

Most people will be offended by your post, but it's true.  Leaderboards and rank mean nothing, been saying this for years.  All they indicate is you might have more games, or might have more time on your hands.  If you think logically, the guy who sits at home without a full time job playing games is going to have more trophies than anyone else, in general.  It's always a time/skill ratio, and you'll notice this trend where people playing instant-plat easy games to pad their trophy level.  I noticed this is in many trophy hunter discord channels where they had massive egos but only played short games and ignored the longer or more difficult games.  But yeah, heaven forbid you offend them, they take trophies personally and might think you're personally attacking them. 

15 hours ago, VoidVictorious said:

You are on a statistics based website posting about how you don’t like statistics. If you don’t like it here, leave.

 

Maybe stop the circlejerking?  We know you like trophies but it's not your personal life. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by DARKB1KE

[Sicho]

57 minutes ago, DARKB1KE said:

If you think logically, the guy who sits at home without a full time job playing games is going to have more trophies than anyone else, in general.

 

It's a whole other discussion but: why do people always think like this?

 

I mean, I play a LOT of games, I don't only play on PS4, I probably play around 3-4 hours a day and much more over the weekend... all while having a full time job, often working around 10 hours per day and doing crossfit and going out with friends and having sex and getting enough sleep and cook and clean, manage websites, write, read, watch movies and so on... it's all about organisation!
People at work also always claim I have "no life" because I play a lot of games... but they see me working every day! And they probably sit in front of the TV watching stupid shows for 5 hours every night.

Granted, I don't have kids, that would probably put a tighter limit on my gaming hours. But I live a very active life and gaming is just a part of it but even then it's easily manageable to get around 30h of gaming done in a week.

tl;dr: I have a full time job and I'm still playing more than many others, here on PSNProfiles I'm in the top 100.000 without even really trying and while playing on virtually every other platform as well. It has nothing to do with being employed, it has all to do with organization skills and deliberately taking time for your hobbies.

[Fubuki]

could have word it a bit better but I agree with you. I wonder why you always post these kinds of threads though. 

[PViddy]

6 hours ago, GermanProGaming2 said:

Agree with threadopener. Trophies are meaningless. Gaming is waste of time. Life give you so much more as sitting in front of your tv. I mostly got my vita with me, like now who i visit Thailand, but each time when i played on my ps4 i feeling like, i have wasted my time.

 

Each time someone who is proud of getting xy number of plats, it shows he s a looser. If people proud of earning many trophies, you can be sure they have no familiy and no real goals in their job. Before i sold 2017 hundreds of Bitcoins and made millions of euros i was be proud of huge number of trophies. But sometimes in life, you need to get something better, to see how meaningless other things was. 

 

 

Those that enjoy platting games are losers and have no family and such huh... gaming is a waste of time huh... first of all, you are a waste of time and secondly I have a family (a wife, a 21 yr old son & a 5 month old son) and I'm disabled, but I am far from a loser. Trophies and gaming arent a waste of time by any means, they're meant to show us our progress in games and allow us to enjoy free time. Granted yes in the 80s and 90s growing up I spent more time outside than the kids these days do, but frankly being inside on video games is a safer alternative in this day and age. You dont have to worry about your child being kidnapped or hit by a drunk driver or shit like that. Plus video games can be educational. They provide you with learning better motor skills and reflexes as well as many other things. Hell games even help war vets with PTSD and shit. Back when I was in college I wrote my thesis on video games and the positive aspects they have for people of all ages. So I know what gaming can do for most people. So next time you feel you have to call gamers losers how about you refrain from being your usual ass hole self and keep those kind of comments to yourself mr. I pay for my trophies. If they're so meaningless then why did you buy 1000s of plats and CLAIM you were a gaming legend... you are so full of shit every time you open your mouth a turd falls out. See I can be an ass hole too, not very nice now is it.

[Mori]

On 16.3.2019 at 9:57 AM, Spaz said:

The title will probably offend a few people who like to stack a lot of games. This is just my opinion. 

 

In my eyes, the leaderboards mean nothing. Your ranking means nothing. The only measures of the rankings are how long somebody plays every day and how long they’ve been hunting. 

 

I’m currently rank 7000 something and I didn’t even try to get to that ranking. I just play a lot of different games, although my pace has slowed down thanks to college studies and the overburden of work. 

 

I’ll make this brief. I don’t think many people care about their ranking, and that’s what matters because I played for rankings in the past and got burnt out on it. Fun and competing for rank don’t mix. 

 

The rankings equate to quantity over quality. It’s pointless, they mean nothing, and after playing for virtual achievements for many years I am considering quitting when I’m around 10,000 - 12,000 trophies. 

 

10,000 - 12,000 trophies with around 300 - 400 games can be admirable. Going for the high stage serves no purpose, it’s just extra padding. 

 

What do you all think?

 

This month is filled with threads that blow up in negativity. No wonder this thread follows this trend, your post is literally inviting it.

 

First of all, if you intend to write an opinion-piece, how about changing the thread title to sth. that makes it clear, like for example "I think your rank means nothing"

 

Opening your thread with "The title will probably offend a few people who like to stack a lot of games" gives the impression that this was indeed your intention. So was it?

Stating that this is "just your opinion" would have been mundane if you had chosen a better thread title.

 

Then you go on and on about how leaderboards and ranks are useless and mean nothing but you never really state why you think so, except rankings equate to quantity over quality. There is also a lot of talking about yourself what you did and what you dont do anymore. People dont care about you but themselves first, they dont care that your rank is 7000 and that you've never tried to get to that rank, they dont care that you'll quit trophy hunting when you are around 10k-12k trophies with around 300-400 games (btw why can this be admireable, but going for the "high stage" can't?). 

They do care however when you tell them that sth. they care about is supposedly useless and if they see nothing than just ranting, no fair arguments, no real good reason for this thread to exist, then this is how it will always turns out.

 

Ending your thread with "What do you all think?" isnt doing anything. If you had started your thread that way, it would have been a different story. Engaging the reader from the start instead of giving him a rant he had no interest in to begin with.

 

Why do I care and tell you this? Because I am getting sick of reading threads like this over and over again. To be fair you are not the only one who creates these type of threads, and the people feeding the heat arent making anything better, trying to amass likes with edgy posts. Though you are somewhat consistent with these threads. If you are really interested in a dialogue, then maybe you should rethink how to tackle "hot topics". Instead of talking about yourself, how about asking questions to people who do care, like "Why do you care? How did you get to this point? What motivates you?" -  You'll realize, people will react differently.

Also someone offered you to talk about it on a podcast. Why not do that and start a more civilized conversation that way.

 

I dont want to come off as patronizing, but may I suggest you a book that could be beneficial to you (and a lot of other people).

 

Spoiler

Dale Carnegie - How To Win Friends And Influence People

 

 

And to finally answer your question what I think about it (if you want to know):

 

I dont care that much about them anymore, mostly it comes down to time (and money in the case of trophy hunting, though I've seen people lending games with each other to minimze costs). I've been on several top pages in games like Far Cry 2, MW2 & MW:3. I liked to see my name up there, often people started talking about me in game chat and I felt some kind of pride or what effs. I usually compared my played time with players above me and felt good when I saw that I needed less play-time to reach the same amount of points/wins etc.

You know how it always ended up? People started hacking or boosting the LB's and I got lost somewhere deep down. Nobody cared and I began to not care as well. Then I played CoD competitve and cared about Gamebattles LB but that ended sometime as well, though these LB had more meaning to me than ingame LB, because they represented good teams/players instead of how much time (money) someone had invested,

 

Do I get worked up about other people caring about LB's? No. I know how it can feel to climb the LB, the satisfaction it can give. Do I care about the LB on this site? Not really. Sometimes I look up my LB-rank and compare how many plats I have compared to other players on my page but its not like I am getting some sort of positive feeling from it. Its just looking and then I go on with life.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Mori

[VoidVictorious]

5 hours ago, DARKB1KE said:

OP has some guts

Most people will be offended by your post, but it's true.  Leaderboards and rank mean nothing, been saying this for years.  All they indicate is you might have more games, or might have more time on your hands.  If you think logically, the guy who sits at home without a full time job playing games is going to have more trophies than anyone else, in general.  It's always a time/skill ratio, and you'll notice this trend where people playing instant-plat easy games to pad their trophy level.  I noticed this is in many trophy hunter discord channels where they had massive egos but only played short games and ignored the longer or more difficult games.  But yeah, heaven forbid you offend them, they take trophies personally and might think you're personally attacking them. 

Maybe stop the circlejerking?  We know you like trophies but it's not your personal life. 

Maybe both you and Spaz should leave the site. This is a trophy and statistics based website. If you don’t like trophies or statistics, the door is over there champ.

4 minutes ago, Mori said:

 

This month is filled with threads that blow up in negativity. No wonder this thread follows this trend, your post is literally inviting it.

 

First of all, if you intend to write an opinion-piece, how about changing the thread title to sth. that makes it clear, like for example "I think your rank means nothing"

 

Opening your thread with "The title will probably offend a few people who like to stack a lot of games" gives the impression that this was indeed your intention. So was it?

Stating that this is "just your opinion" would have been mundane if you had chosen a better thread title.

 

Then you go on and on about how leaderboards and ranks are useless and mean nothing but you never really state why you think so, except rankings equate to quantity over quality. There is also a lot of talking about yourself what you did and what you dont do anymore. People dont care about you but themselves first, they dont care that your rank is 7000 and that you've never tried to get to that rank, they dont care that you'll quit trophy hunting when you are around 10k-12k trophies with around 300-400 games (btw why can this be admireable, but going for the "high stage" can't?). 

They do care however when you tell them that sth. they care about is supposedly useless and if they see nothing than just ranting, no fair arguments, no real good reason for this thread to exist, then this is how it will always turns out.

 

Ending your thread with "What do you all think?" isnt doing anything. If you had started your thread that way, it would have been a different story. Engaging the reader from the start instead of giving him a rant he had no interest in to begin with.

 

Why do I care and tell you this? Because I am getting sick of reading threads like this over and over again. To be fair you are not the only one who creates these type of threads, and the people feeding the heat arent making anything better, trying to amass likes with edgy posts. Though you are somewhat consistent with these threads. If you are really interested in a dialogue, then maybe you should rethink how to tackle "hot topics". Instead of talking about yourself, how about asking questions to people who do care, like "Why do you care? How did you get to this point? What motivates you?" -  You'll realize, people will react differently.

Also someone offered you to talk about it on a podcast. Why not do that and start a more civilized conversation that way.

 

I dont want to come off as patronizing, but may I suggest you a book that could be beneficial to you (and a lot of other people).

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Dale Carnegie - How To Win Friends And Influence People

 

 

And to finally answer your question what I think about it (if you want to know):

 

I dont care that much about them anymore, mostly it comes down to time (and money in the case of trophy hunting, though I've seen people lending games with each other to minimze costs). I've been on several top pages in games like Far Cry 2, MW2 & MW:3. I liked to see my name up there, often people started talking about me in game chat and I felt some kind of pride or what effs. I usually compared my played time with players above me and felt good when I saw that I needed less play-time to reach the same amount of points/wins etc.

You know how it always ended up? People started hacking or boosting the LB's and I got lost somewhere deep down. Nobody cared and I began to not care as well. Then I played CoD competitve and cared about Gamebattles LB but that ended sometime as well, though these LB had more meaning to me than ingame LB, because they represented good teams/players instead of how much time (money) someone had invested,

 

Do I get worked up about other people caring about LB's? No. I know how it can feel to climb the LB, the satisfaction it can give. Do I care about the LB on this site? Not really. Sometimes I look up my list and compare how many plats I have compared to other players on my page but its not like I am getting some sort of positive feeling from it. Its just looking and then I go on with life.

Well said!

[AvengedEvil]

8 hours ago, GermanProGaming2 said:

Each time someone who is proud of getting xy number of plats, it shows he s a looser.

 

 You know that you have 1,000 plats, don't you?

[nyonmyan]

18 minutes ago, AvengedEvil said:

 

 You know that you have 1,000 plats, don't you?

 

And he's ashamed of it.

 

I think it's like

100-200 you're a p cool dude, keep it up my man

500 wow, slow it down, spend more time with your mom/girlfriend/girlfriend's mom

1000 wtf pls stop

Edited March 18, 2019 by nyonmyan

[HellMoodCole]

Basically you can summarize the whole thread as follows. It's totally fine to not care about the leaderboards. It's also totally fine if the leaderboards mean everything to you and everything in between. But you should always be aware that the less you care about the leaderboards, the less likely it is to fall into an addiction.


"I would like to end it every day, but I am just too addicted to trophies, so I can't."

-Hakoom 2017

[VoidVictorious]

21 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

Basically you can summarize the whole thread as follows. It's totally fine to not care about the leaderboards. It's also totally fine if the leaderboards mean everything to you and everything in between. But you should always be aware that the less you care about the leaderboards, the less likely it is to fall into an addiction.


"I would like to end it every day, but I am just too addicted to trophies, so I can't."

-Hakoom 2017

Frankly, I would summarize this thread as an attention grab from Spaz. Everyone has an opinion and no opinion is less valid than any other. This thread was not meant to provoke thought. It was just a sad and desperate attempt to stir the pot. Let’s just let this thread die.