Sekiro Get Gud??? Lower trophy completion rate?

[reiner-]

https://youtu.be/AqUkH9bJi_E

 

Thought this vid was very well done that covers the issue of should games be easier.

 

Credit to: NeverKnowsBest

Edited April 16, 2019 by reiner-

[KainDMD]

How to make hard game:

1. Make enemies almost oneshot you

2. Make enemies have bullshit moves that will hit you

3. Make enemies

4. Profit

[MMDE]

18 hours ago, KainDMD said:

How to make hard game:

1. Make enemies almost oneshot you

2. Make enemies have bullshit moves that will hit you

3. Make enemies

4. Profit

 

That's not what the souls games are like though.

 

1. This can be true if you severely underleveled your HP and wear no armor in NG+ etc, but generally not a big concern.
2. This just isn't the case.
3. They made enemies, that's for sure.
4. They sure profit, but not for the cases you explained.

Edited April 17, 2019 by MMDE

[KainDMD]

I made fun of soulsborniro games but everything I wrote is true. I wish they didn't make so much profit because they killed my favourite genre once they got mainstream

[MMDE]

7 hours ago, KainDMD said:

I made fun of soulsborniro games but everything I wrote is true. I wish they didn't make so much profit because they killed my favourite genre once they got mainstream

 

I'm playing the PS4 version of Dark Souls 2 right now. Dark Souls 2 is the game everyone complains about is so much worse than the rest or something. I don't see the issue with the enemies in this game, at all. It's just to learn the level layout / explore slowly and how to take out the enemies (their attack patterns and when to attack etc). You can usually keep yourself at a good distance to learn their pattern. If you don't rush, you can usually learn the level layout just fine too. Pretty easy to get through most area on first try. If you do die, you lose nothing, yet, just reminds you to be more careful and makes you more careful in the attempt to get back your stuff so you don't lose anything. The game forces you to be able to get through an entire area without dying (from one checkpoint to the next), which simply isn't common practice anymore. Way too many checkpoints in newer games, and they can hide their flawed gameplay and "difficulty" in that. I remember in Terminator Salvation, I think Chapter 8 or 9 or something, where you control a giant robot or something, on hard I don't think you can make it through entire level without dying. The level have checkpoints, which restores all your lives, and gets you enough health again to make it to the next checkpoint. This is horrible gameplay. You also lose all sense of what you doing matters at all. The developers of FF13 might have thought they were clever by making it so if you die in a fight you respawn right before the fight, you can even exit the fight etc and try again. Your health and magic doesn't carry over from fight to fight either. This means that if you can beat an enemy party, you can beat it again too and you lose the aspect of managing your party through an area. A lot of the metagame is lost. Except for one long fight, there's absolutely nothing on the line in any of the fights. Souls games even nail another thing FF13 didn't, which is the exploration and rewarding you for exploring. A lot of people talk about how FF13 is all corridors to everything opens up at the end, and maybe how nice that is or something, but I'm just wondering what opened up? What's there to explore? What's the incentives or rewards for this? Is there anything to actually find? No interesting characters or lore to dig into. No secrets or carrots etc. The Souls games do all these things so well.

 

And all you complain about is you think the enemies are overpowered or something. You usually don't wanna get hit. Either you use a shield, your sword or simply roll away. If you do get hit, the enemies either only hits you once or they can do many weak hits, and you can usually take that hit just fine and just heal back up, and thereafter take more hits.

 

To be perfectly honest, you're probably not playing the games right if you die over and over. As I said, currently playing Dark Souls 2, only two handing a "Longsword", no issue at all, and the rolling in this game is so slow compared to the later games. Not only that, but the hitbox in this game is a bit odd, so you can take hits when you shouldn't.

 

There's many ways to play the games, so it's just about finding something that fits you. If you wanna go easy mode in PvE, you can do shield + spear + bow + pyromancy + thief's ring build.

 

If you struggle with anything in the games, just ask. They're not supposed to be that difficult, and it's more Bandai Namco that focus on the "hard" part in their marketing. As I've said before in the thread, the games aren't particularly difficult, though they have a steep initial learning curve, but once you get going with some okay build you feel comfortable with and leveled up some few levels, the games should be fairly easy. The battle system is just pretty deep and balanced. Not a lot of QTEs and animations that play themselves etc. And these games go way back before Souls ever existed.

[KainDMD]

Dude, seriously you should not have written so much especially to me who already played all these games. I didn't even read all of that just ran through it quick, no disrespect meant. I was just stating how to easily make a hard game, and number 1 is make everything hit you for a lot of damage by default. I mean it's pretty obvious how to easily kill the player. I didn't even mention all the other bullshit. Actually I did because there's huge grab attacks and stuff. That's a pretty easy way to kill the player. And so if I was the dev, and my job was to make it even harder than the last games (which so many people say and on the youtube pictures) then for sure I would put in even more bullshit stuff. For speedrunners I would make a split in the level and make it almost at the very end of the game, and they need to choose where to go. Both lead to the same area but one is longer than the other and you can't know which path will be the fastest because it will be random. Normal players won't even notice but the speedrunners will be sooo angry. They should hire me to make punishing difficulty for them yes

And I don't like the soulsborniro games at all now that they are super mainstream and the gameplay is so fucking lacking compared to real action games which they try so hard to make their games even more action focused but it's not enough. I hope they end soon and I can get my genres back

[AndresLionheart]

@MMDE I think the problem with DS2 is that on the first few areas enemies tend to come in groups of 3-5 and ambushes are used too often. I bet a lot of the people who complain about that stuff never kept playing.

The later areas dial that back too much, making them empty on top of being uninteresting.

 

Bosses are complete ass (at least as far as I've seen), but most bosses on DS1 are ass too, so I can see it pulling off a few decent bosses at some point.

 

And finally, the new stats add nothing more than some annoyance. I'm talking about stuff like Vigor and Adaptability.

Adaptabilty especially seems completely unnecessary and is the main cause of comments about item use being very slow and rolls sucking ass.

 

But hey, at least they added a % below the equipment load!

[MMDE]

4 hours ago, KainDMD said:

Dude, seriously you should not have written so much especially to me who already played all these games. I didn't even read all of that just ran through it quick, no disrespect meant. I was just stating how to easily make a hard game, and number 1 is make everything hit you for a lot of damage by default. I mean it's pretty obvious how to easily kill the player. I didn't even mention all the other bullshit. Actually I did because there's huge grab attacks and stuff. That's a pretty easy way to kill the player. And so if I was the dev, and my job was to make it even harder than the last games (which so many people say and on the youtube pictures) then for sure I would put in even more bullshit stuff. For speedrunners I would make a split in the level and make it almost at the very end of the game, and they need to choose where to go. Both lead to the same area but one is longer than the other and you can't know which path will be the fastest because it will be random. Normal players won't even notice but the speedrunners will be sooo angry. They should hire me to make punishing difficulty for them yes

And I don't like the soulsborniro games at all now that they are super mainstream and the gameplay is so fucking lacking compared to real action games which they try so hard to make their games even more action focused but it's not enough. I hope they end soon and I can get my genres back

 

Too bad you didn't actually read what I said, because you missed some of the points I was trying to make. Mainly the point that the games are not being about difficult, but that this is more the American publishers pushing them as thinking that it will sell copies. I don't think most people who like the series play or like it for the difficulty, but instead the deeper and more balanced battle system and generally great gameplay and design.

 

Which genres do you want "back"? "Fucking lacking"? "Real action games"?  They are RPGs that goes backs to the roots of the dungeon crawler genre with games like Wizardry. You see it so well if you play their first games, and if those weren't making the case clear enough, then look at a couple of their Japan only PSP games.

 

King's Field 1 was like first or second RPG or something in Japan for PS1, KF2 (it's just called KF in USA) was the first or second RPG for PS1 in USA. The point being, these games have been there entire PlayStation life span. They've made these games the entire time, and they're not more or less difficult. One could easily argue they've gotten easier. The first game is just a dungeon of 5 floors, where what really sets it apart from the early dungeon crawler games is it being 3D real time, first person, where you can move more fluidly around, exploring the entire dungeon and make your way to the next floor. The second game played much the same, but they put you on an island you had to explore. Less like the traditional dungeon crawler games where you got one/multiple big towers/dungeons with many floors you had to explore, and more a real island with a lot of caves and some few areas with houses etc, more focus on the story, though it's told much the same way as the souls games are. 3 went even further in the same direction and so on, and they started different series that played much the same, some with more horror elements than others. If the early games don't convince you, just see KF Additional 1 and 2 for PSP, they play almost exactly like wizardry.

 

The dungeon crawler genre has been popular since the early 80s, and I don't see how it takes away from your "real action" games. Likely, those games you talk about has roots in much of what the souls games are all about too. What the souls games did last gen was innovate when it comes to the online aspect and how it handles checkpoints. The rest you can find going back for a long time.

Edited April 17, 2019 by MMDE

[KainDMD]

They have become more and more action focused but they will never be as good as the real action games. And for sure people only know these games about the difficulty. If these games were super easy the fanboys would explode. All those articles to include easy mode in sekihoe or cheats is big example to see what people think. I want my fucking hardcore japanese hack and slash games back, not this dark souls after dark souls. If only they didn't become so popular

[Konrave]

 

23 hours ago, KainDMD said:

And I don't like the soulsborniro games at all now that they are super mainstream

 

Is it sarcastic? You don't like Sekiro because of social media? Just cut the line.

[KainDMD]

35 minutes ago, Konrave said:

 

 

Is it sarcastic? You don't like Sekiro because of social media? Just cut the line.

Not just that, although I'm pretty sad about all the giant video recommendations I get about anything dark souls and dark souls like games and omg it's everywhere make it stop! Are you a blob?

[Spider-Beyond]

On 16.4.2019 at 8:29 PM, AndresLionheart said:

DSP is not a good example. On Dark Souls he only got up to Blighttown and then got carrid by 2 people the rest of the game.

Then for Bloodborne he grinded and was overleveled for more than half of the game. Later for the "redepmtion" playthrough he ragequit on Ludwig I think? I don't remember what happened with that one.

 

But I agree with the Hack n' slash games. Without going too far, Devil May Cry 5 is harder to platinum than Bloodborne or Dark Souls. Ninja Gaiden is definitely harder.

True.

[MMDE]

On 4/17/2019 at 7:30 PM, AndresLionheart said:

@MMDE I think the problem with DS2 is that on the first few areas enemies tend to come in groups of 3-5 and ambushes are used too often. I bet a lot of the people who complain about that stuff never kept playing.

The later areas dial that back too much, making them empty on top of being uninteresting.

 

Bosses are complete ass (at least as far as I've seen), but most bosses on DS1 are ass too, so I can see it pulling off a few decent bosses at some point.

 

And finally, the new stats add nothing more than some annoyance. I'm talking about stuff like Vigor and Adaptability.

Adaptabilty especially seems completely unnecessary and is the main cause of comments about item use being very slow and rolls sucking ass.

 

But hey, at least they added a % below the equipment load!

 

Adaptability is actually a pretty good stat. More invincibility frames, faster estus/item use , faster cast times, more resistance, increases poise. It definitely makes a difference, both PvE and PvP.

Edited April 19, 2019 by MMDE

[Konrave]

20 hours ago, KainDMD said:

Are you a blob?

Nope · · blob · · · Not at all · · · blob · · ·

[BloodyRutz]

OP @SuchRemorse is now working on Cat Quest with 75% Platinum rarity instead of "getting gud" in Sekiro. This thread is golden!!! ??? I actually feel bad now about Sekiro not having multi-player.

[MMDE]

Git gud scrubs

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by MMDE

[AndresLionheart]

On 19/4/2019 at 8:56 AM, MMDE said:

Adaptability is actually a pretty good stat. More invincibility frames, faster estus/item use , faster cast times, more resistance, increases poise. It definitely makes a difference, both PvE and PvP.

What I meant is that it just adds an inconvenience that you have to dump stats on (I think it's 105 agility for comparable iframes to a DS1 fast roll?). It is also not that clear to the player that it is giving you iframes and faster item usage, which leads to the common misconception of clunkiness.

[Demortuus]

On ‎19‎.‎04‎.‎2019 at 2:44 PM, BloodyRutz said:

OP @SuchRemorse is now working on Cat Quest with 75% Platinum rarity instead of "getting gud" in Sekiro. This thread is golden!!!  I actually feel bad now about Sekiro not having multi-player.

This is pure gold. This scrub needs to git gud

[SuchRemorse]

On 4/19/2019 at 8:44 AM, BloodyRutz said:

OP @SuchRemorse is now working on Cat Quest with 75% Platinum rarity instead of "getting gud" in Sekiro. This thread is golden!!!  I actually feel bad now about Sekiro not having multi-player.

Oh so you don't play more than one game at a time!? Once someone starts Sekiro they are bound to ONLY play that game!? Yeah OK playing other games.. Who cares! Dude you sound like a idiot. And I actually lost interest in Sekiro. I was hoping it would be better. It seems like from software is going backwards. Every game they come out with takes more and more away. I like games where you can customize your character or At least change weapons. Dark souks was awesome! You can make an character you want! It has unlimited replay value to me.. Then Bloodborne came out and took most of the weapons away. And FORCED you to have a gun in left and weapon in a right hand. Less customisation. And now sekiro. You can't even change your appearance... Clothing/Armor and you have one weapon. THAT'S IT! It's not appealing to me. Dark souls made me want to keep playing and exploring and finding things!. Sekiro makes me not even care cause I know anything I find in the environment will just be some stupid balloon or some candy. I hardly use consumables in games so this is not really fun to me.. I'll finish it eventually but right now it's not to exciting. I would rather play cat quest in all honesty! 

On 4/20/2019 at 3:32 PM, Demortuus said:

This is pure gold. This scrub needs to git gud

I'm a scrub because I'm not playing sekiro?? Yeah OK. I would rather "have fun" than "git good" sekiro lost its appeal to me. I don't like being forced to play a game a certain way. And I like some options. Sekiro took everything fun from darksouls and made it trash. I like to customize my character in games. Sekiro took that away. I like to have a variety of weapons or items. Sekiro took that away.. It's basically a game saying "play this way" that's it! You can't play any other way. I'm not one to use many consumables in games and it seems like anything I pick up in Sekiro is just some useless balloon or some candy. I got to the point where I don't even pick things up any more because I know it's just useless garbage that you can get from killing enemies or just buy from a shop. So if that makes me a scrub then whatever.. You can enjoy your bare bones darksouls game. Cause that's what it is.. I'll finish it eventually but for now I lost interest. And I can be sure when I do finish it.. I probably won't play NG+ there's no point. It would be EXACTLY the same thing. Oh but I'm sure that's going to make me a scrub too... Cause I don't want to play a game right now that I don't find super fun! 

Edited April 21, 2019 by SuchRemorse

[SuchRemorse]

On 3/17/2019 at 11:24 AM, WeprCZ said:

I don't think this game will have any rarer plat. If it goes by like every other soulsborne game, then there will be at least one type of build, that will destroy the game (for Demon's Souls,DS,DS2 magic, for Bloodborne it was bloodtinge builds, hell even Nioh could be broken). 

UMMMMMM.... There are no "builds" its one character and one weapon. That's it. That's all you get.. A sword! And that's All... Oh and you get different arm attachments. But from what I've seen so far they seem very situation specific. Not much use otherwise! Ugh... Give me Bloodborne 2! Or Demon's Souls remake! That's what I want! ? 

[BloodyRutz]

41 minutes ago, SuchRemorse said:

Oh so you don't play more than one game at a time!? 

 

Actually I do not. Enjoy Cat Quest. I'm sure you're playing it because of how epic it is. If you happen to think about calling me names again, don't bother. I won't reply but you can be sure I will report it.

[SuchRemorse]

20 minutes ago, BloodyRutz said:

 

Actually I do not. Enjoy Cat Quest. I'm sure you're playing it because of how epic it is. If you happen to think about calling me names again, don't bother. I won't reply but you can be sure I will report it.

Ummm actually you do.. You have lots of unfinished games on your page! Which would Imply that you play more than one game before finishing another. I guess all those unfinished games are finished according to you. And who's calling you names!? I didn't call you any names. 

[BloodyRutz]

8 hours ago, SuchRemorse said:

Ummm actually you do.. You have lots of unfinished games on your page! Which would Imply that you play more than one game before finishing another. I guess all those unfinished games are finished according to you. And who's calling you names!? I didn't call you any names. 

 

Not having all the trophies does not mean I didn't finish the game (at least for now). Let me make it clear, I don't mix story experiences. I always play one story game/one mp game at a time.

 

For example I finished RDR 2 story before starting another game. Doesn't mean I will play shitty online mode just for the sake of finishing trophies. I started Sekiro, finished NG+ and now I'm going to buy DMC 5. Hope it's clear now.

 

For me.. Trophies are a bonus. Not the main reason to play the game. That's why you don't see My Name Is Mayo, Cat Quest and these types of games in my list and there are (not that) many unfinished games.

 

But I get it. You don't like Sekiro. No point in arguing further.

Edited April 22, 2019 by BloodyRutz

[Konrave]

[SuchRemorse]

1 hour ago, Konrave said:

Uncommon on THIS site... It's still ultra rare if you check over all in the world! And I meant lowest amongst Souls games. Not lowest of all games ever!