Popular Post emptyshelf Posted April 8, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) I've been looking for the fastest way to farm skills points and trying to determine if it would be better to move to the next new game plus or continue to farm on my current play-through. Crunching some numbers, here's what I've come up with. If anybody else has any other data, I'm interested. I believe the formula to determine how much experience is required for each skill point is 8.9002*x^2 - 671.29*x + 23834, where x is the current skill point level. This formula is based on a quadratic curve fit for skill point levels 98 through 120. It fits pretty well, matching the actual amounts for each level within 10 xp. I will say, it's definitely not valid for low skill points (under 20 or so), and I'm not certain on the accuracy outside of this range because I only started monitoring when I started farming. Unlocking all skills requires 125 skill points. Assuming the formula holds, going from 98 skill points to 125 skill points would take 1,686,042 experience. This obviously increases if you've spent any skill points on attack power. There are two end-game spots that are nearly equal in skill point farming. The first is Ashina outskirts: Outskirts Wall - Stairway. Killing the 5 enemies and resting at the idol earns you 5562 xp on the second play-through and takes 38-40 seconds. That's 139-146 xp per second. Comparatively, the Ashina Castle: Upper Tower - Antechamber route of just killing the single purple ninja yields 2104 xp on the second play-through and takes 14-15 seconds. That's 140-150 xp per second. I've seen several posts claiming farming the single purple ninja takes 10 seconds or less...I don't buy it. Resting at the idol takes 5.5 s, so running to the ninja, waiting for the backstab animation, and running back to the idol is far longer than 4.5 s. Also, any route that doesn't return back to the same idol wastes too much time using the homeward bone to reset the enemies, since the game has to go to a loading screen. I timed the homeward bone a few times, and it took 17 seconds from clicking on returning to last communed idol until I had control again. Going from ng to ng+, enemies yield 40% more xp per kill. Going from ng+ to ng++, enemies yield an additional 50% more xp per kill. So, is it better to move to ng++, or keep farming on ng+? Most likely, farming on ng+ is more efficient. It does depend on how much xp you still need. As an example, I was at skill level 98, and had spent 10 skill points on increasing attack power, meaning I need to get to skill level 135 to unlock all the skills. Even with this, farming on ng++ would have saved me 90 minutes compared to farming on ng+. Since running through the game will most likely take more than 90 minutes, it's faster to just stay put. (Yes, I'm aware the WR is sub-40 minutes; however, it takes a lot of practice to achieve that time). In the end, going from skill level 98 to 125 at 140 xp per second will take 200 minutes. Going from 98 to 135 at 140 xp per second takes 300 minutes. Farming increases by over an hour for those 2 attack power... Anyway, hopefully I didn't royally screw up any of these calculations, but it seems the fastest path (not most fun) to platinum is using cloud saves to complete 2 play-throughs, and then farming at the end of ng+. Edited April 9, 2019 by emptyshelf Updated formula based on more data points 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nudoetcrudo Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) Wow that's a lot of dedication I also wanted to fit a curve to predict how many exp I would have needed, but I just went for blind grinding lol Anyway, I did a speedrun on NG+ to Shura then I went for NG++ and farmed there (I needed Shura for the trophy anyway, and this way I also had the scroll given by Isshin for the Shura ending, which is not required for any trophy but still cool). I also kinda did a speedrun for NG++ (killed all bosses and did all things for all ending, but I didn't kill any optional mini-boss). Reading how much time people spent farming on NG+, I think it was a good decision. However, if you already are in NG+ past Shura (so "good ending" endgame) maybe it's not worth to do a NG++. Btw: * For the first farming method, it's better if you do a full run as in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwpThvQxTWA It gives more exp/hour (in the description it says how to improve it). * Alternatively there is the antichamber you mentioned (super simple) * Rr the "long antichamer" described here https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/73210-i-bring-to-you-the-best-farming-method/ But read the comments because as in the video the run is not very efficient. It is very efficient (maybe as much or more the outskirts method) if you didn't kill the chained ogre. Edited April 8, 2019 by nudoetcrudo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDiivil Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 I think the one thing you might be overlooking is that bosses themselves reward quite nice chunks of XP. So if you managed to run through the game in under 90 mins without dying too much, it'd probably be worth it. But I do agree that for most players who just want the platinum fast, the safer way is to just grind on NG+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boldtext Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 I think going into ng+ might be a better idea because you already have to for all bosses and all upgrades. Plus, your second play through may only take around 5 hours to beat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emptyshelf Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 1 hour ago, nudoetcrudo said: Wow that's a lot of dedication I also wanted to fit a curve to predict how many exp I would have needed, but I just went for blind grinding lol Anyway, I did a speedrun on NG+ to Shura then I went for NG++ and farmed there (I needed Shura for the trophy anyway, and this way I also had the scroll given by Isshin for the Shura ending, which is not required for any trophy but still cool). I also kinda did a speedrun for NG++ (killed all bosses and did all things for all ending, but I didn't kill any optional mini-boss). Reading how much time people spent farming on NG+, I think it was a good decision. However, if you already are in NG+ past Shura (so "good ending" endgame) maybe it's not worth to do a NG++. Btw: * For the first farming method, it's better if you do a full run as in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwpThvQxTWA It gives more exp/hour (in the description it says how to improve it). * Alternatively there is the antichamber you mentioned (super simple) * Rr the "long antichamer" described here https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/73210-i-bring-to-you-the-best-farming-method/ But read the comments because as in the video the run is not very efficient. It is very efficient (maybe as much or more the outskirts method) if you didn't kill the chained ogre. Thanks for the reply and for posting links to some farming methods. A few comments: 1. In the first video, the player gains 11497 xp in 160 seconds on a first play-through. This is 71.8 xp/s, which is far less than the 99 xp/s you get with just farming the first 5 guys. Even using a homeward bone after killing the last guy on the bridge wouldn't be as fast as just farming the first 5 guys. 2. It's hard to tell on the long anti-chamber method since the full-cycle is not included (there's no timing on how long the load screen is to get back to the idol). If this method is faster, it's not be much. What's interesting through, is if you run back to the idol after killing the first 3 purple ninjas in the anti-chamber run, you are looking at 9468 xp on ng++ in about 35-40 seconds, which would be 237 - 271 xp/s. That's far greater than the 208 xp/s on ng++ from farming just the 5 guys at the Ashina outskirts: Outskirts Wall - Stairway. I'll try this tonight as it looks like the fastest method and thank you so much for helping to point it out. 45 minutes ago, boldtext said: I think going into ng+ might be a better idea because you already have to for all bosses and all upgrades. Plus, your second play through may only take around 5 hours to beat. Sorry if my post is not clear, but I am suggesting the fastest way to get platinum is to go to ng+, and then farm at the end of ng+ instead of going into ng++ to farm. As IDiivil pointed out, it does depend on how quickly you can clear a ng++ play-through and how much xp you end of losing in the event you die. You may gain some skill points as you go through ng++, which I'm not accounting for in my calculations. My guess is, completing a ng++ and then farming is a wash time-wise at best compared to just farming at the end of ng+. However, a ng++ would definitely be more enjoyable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyAerith Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Awesome post, +1. I was interested in calculating the amount of experience needed for this trophy, but I was determined to continue grinding and 'pushing through the pain,' so to speak. Like you, I also had to grind a massive amount of extra experience. As boldtext has said, it's much better to go to NG+. If you're going for the longest trophy in the game, might as well go for the platinum. This is especially true for you, since you need an extra 10 points. However, I was scared to go into NG++, simply because I didn't want to fight Saint Isshin again, as well as some troublesome bosses in NG++. I figured that I would not save enough time with the NG++ experience gain over NG+ to justify the amount of time it would take me to beat that boss and reach end game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nudoetcrudo Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 15 minutes ago, emptyshelf said: Thanks for the reply and for posting links to some farming methods. A few comments: 1. In the first video, the player gains 11497 xp in 160 seconds on a first play-through. This is 71.8 xp/s, which is far less than the 99 xp/s you get with just farming the first 5 guys. Even using a homeward bone after killing the last guy on the bridge wouldn't be as fast as just farming the first 5 guys. 2. It's hard to tell on the long anti-chamber method since the full-cycle is not included (there's no timing on how long the load screen is to get back to the idol). If this method is faster, it's not be much. What's interesting through, is if you run back to the idol after killing the first 3 purple ninjas in the anti-chamber run, you are looking at 9468 xp on ng++ in about 35-40 seconds, which would be 237 - 271 xp/s. That's far greater than the 208 xp/s on ng++ from farming just the 5 guys at the Ashina outskirts: Outskirts Wall - Stairway. I'll try this tonight as it looks like the fastest method and thank you so much for helping to point it out. 1. I put a few notes in the description (I am the player :D) to make it faster. It can be easily done in 140 seconds (my best is 135, and another used said he did it in 130). 2. I am also curious about that strategy and will probably try it out even though I already maxed everything, just for curiosity Also, in NG++ the gunners on the bridge (fighting against the red samurais) give a considerable amount of exp (441 each I think), while in NG only 21. This is weird and is not the +40/50% you mentioned, I am not sure why their scaling is different. Anyway, this makes the method even more efficient (at least in NG++, probably also in NG+ but I didn't reach that point in my NG+). Btw, 5 hours for a speedrun seem way too much. 3 hours should suffice even dying a couple of times at bosses (skipping all enemies and mini-bosses). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boldtext Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Yikes the last few skill points are going to take me a long time because I also need to get to 135. I'm on ng++ stuck on Isshin, the rest of ng++ was no trouble at all, I beat almost every boss on the first try. I'll grind out skill points in ng+++. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimb0mb Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 I just grinded like a madman at the end of NG+. I think maybe 6 or 7 hours of grinding in total, what a pain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowlliet Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) In the end, it's really much better to get to NG+2 than farm on lower difficulty. I was wondering the same thing as OP when I needed 40+ skill points in NG+ but I was getting so little throughout the whole playthrough on NG+ that I'm glad I went to NG+2, which I completed in like 2-3 hours and did the rest there. You can achieve Shura ending in like 2 hours, so it's much faster than you think. Edited April 9, 2019 by Lowlliet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emptyshelf Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 44 minutes ago, Lowlliet said: In the end, it's really much better to get to NG+2 than farm on lower difficulty. I was wondering the same thing as OP when I needed 40+ skill points in NG+ but I was getting so little throughout the whole playthrough on NG+ that I'm glad I went to NG+2, which I completed in like 2-3 hours and did the rest there. You can achieve Shura ending in like 2 hours, so it's much faster than you think. Sigh..I don't know how you say "it's really much better to get to ng++ than farm on lower difficulty" or "it's much faster than you think" when the math doesn't support this at all. That's the point of using numbers, so I'm not guessing how long it takes or telling people it's faster than they "think". As IDiivil pointed out, there are some cases where it could be faster to go to ng++ and farm there, but it primarily depends on how many skill points you have left to earn, and how many skill points you've invested into increasing attack. If you've invested a lot into attack (~20 skill points or more), then moving to ng++ would be faster. In my case, I needed 37 skill points to max all skills, which includes 10 additional levels from increasing attack twice. Since skill points increase in cost, I would need to grind for longer compared to someone that needed ~40 skill points to max all skills but didn't increase their attack with skill points at all. Longer grinding means there could be a greater benefit from farming in ng++ compared to ng+. So I wanted to test that out. As I stated in my original post, the difference in time between farming the points I needed on ng+ and farming ng++ is 90-100 minutes. So if it takes 2 hours to complete a ng++ play-through (and you need to go the non-Shura route to get to the farming locations I've mentioned), you don't make up the time you saved by just farming on ng+. Again, IDiivil pointed out that you probably will gain a few skill points (it's too hard to know how many because it depends on skill and pathing) throughout the ~2 hour ng++ run, but based on my ng+ play-through where I didn't lose much experience to deaths, it would be around 5 or so. 5 skill points would save an additional 30 minutes, making the two options comparable at best, not "really much better" that you claim. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogui22 Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) Last trophy for Sekiro. I will test the 3 ninja antechamber run, I’m in ng++. I will edit with the results Edit - Not worth, it’s hard to do stealth attack on the second ninja. Edit2 - The sweet spot is antechamber with ogre alive, return to th idol meanwhile the ogre kill the two red dudes. Edited April 13, 2019 by jogui22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaoseater8 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Have a alternate antichamber version. Kill the first Ninja and let the ogre kill the two red enemies - without jump down - so you can run back to the idol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W93IRPLFeCg&feature=youtu.be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SairenOne Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiner- Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Killing the single purple ninja and returning to the idol has been working well. Using those 5 skill points to upgrade my Attack Power may of been a mistake. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iGGTheEnd Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, reiner- said: Killing the single purple ninja and returning to the idol has been working well. Using those 5 skill points to upgrade my Attack Power may of been a mistake. I would recommend doing Ashina staircase instead, more interactive to keep your mind out of the "Fuck this shit" mentality. I put 10 into attack and if I did that purple ninja only I woulda went fucking nuts haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiner- Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Just now, iGGTheEnd said: I would recommend doing Ashina staircase instead, more interactive to keep your mind out of the "Fuck this shit" mentality. I put 10 into attack and if I did that purple ninja only I woulda went fucking nuts haha. You're right. ? I have said "Fuck this shit" many times. Best thing to do is put your favourite YouTube channel on and grind away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevengeancePrime Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 I'm going to just wait for a potential DLC. No point in grinding away if there'll be more to play through and potentially better methods to farm exp. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiner- Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, ObliviousSenpai said: I'm going to just wait for a potential DLC. No point in grinding away if there'll be more to play through and potentially better methods to farm exp. This is a good point. There will surely be DLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwarcriminal Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) I know I’m late but I’m just getting around to playing this great game. My fave farm spot is the old grave After you’ve the first castle siege. At the old grave there’s a nightjar on the roof directly ahead which I quickly backstab from the roof ledge. Jump to hang on ledge the target ninja; takes 5 seconds. Then run up the stairs & use shurikens to kill one of the easy enemies. Run & slide just at the corner & quickly creep behind the spear wielding enemy for a backstab. All together takes about 33 seconds for 2659 exp on NG+. So 5318 exp in about 66 seconds. Super easy & fast. To get ALL skills will take NG++ at least. My first play through was blind with help on some bosses but story wise I stayed away & got the separation ending. I stabbed Kuro. My second I’m trying to get them all by using cloud at the end. I’ve fought nearly everyone twice except Owl father & exp is just difficult. Bosses do give a chunk but I need 17 points to get last skills & the next point is 55k. A good boss gives 10 maybe 15 k in NG+. Edited August 17, 2022 by mrwarcriminal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stars_of_Sirius Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) On 8/17/2022 at 6:24 PM, mrwarcriminal said: I know I’m late but I’m just getting around to playing this great game. My fave farm spot is the old grave After you’ve the first castle siege. At the old grave there’s a nightjar on the roof directly ahead which I quickly backstab from the roof ledge. Jump to hang on ledge the target ninja; takes 5 seconds. Then run up the stairs & use shurikens to kill one of the easy enemies. Run & slide just at the corner & quickly creep behind the spear wielding enemy for a backstab. All together takes about 33 seconds for 2659 exp on NG+. So 5318 exp in about 66 seconds. Super easy & fast. To get ALL skills will take NG++ at least. My first play through was blind with help on some bosses but story wise I stayed away & got the separation ending. I stabbed Kuro. My second I’m trying to get them all by using cloud at the end. I’ve fought nearly everyone twice except Owl father & exp is just difficult. Bosses do give a chunk but I need 17 points to get last skills & the next point is 55k. A good boss gives 10 maybe 15 k in NG+. I'm sorry but those numbers are terrible if you want to farm. Regardless, this trophy is a terrible trophy, but it's one of the last ones I need so gotta push through Edited November 22, 2022 by Stars_of_Sirius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayShuttlesworth Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 I messed up my first playthrough and locked myself out of the return, and purification endings. This meant that in order for me to get the plat I'd have to do at least one more full playthrough. The good news however is that I am now on my 3rd playthrough and that the XP I get is quite substantial. I am almost considering just doing NG+ over and over again until I get close enough just to make it not so boring and monotonous lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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