Undead Wolf

Does the Trophy System Need an Overhaul?

Does the Trophy System Need an Overhaul?   332 members have voted

  1. 1. Should it be changed?

    • It's outdated and should be changed (be sure to post if you have a better idea than mine)
      152
    • It's perfect the way it is now
      179

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262 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I am in no way a trophy hunter, but if I had my way I would make three changes to the current system. Firstly, I think all games should have a platinum. Having these 100% without a platinum is stupid if you ask me. Second, you should be able to delete any game off your list regardless of percentage. That way I could wipe some of those games I tried but hated, yet they still sit on my list because I earned one piss easy trophy at the start.

 

And the final thing I've always wanted is a trophy cabinet that shows all the platinums you've earned, similar to XBOX having the section that listed all the games you'd got every achievement on. Also I think it would be cool if each platinum had a cool individual looking trophy and not just an image so the trophy cabinet could be like a visual thing. Example: God of War could have like a trophy statue of Kratos and Atreus back to back or something like that. I know it'll probably never happen, but it would be cool if it did.

Edited by ForceGrip86
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 one thing i want to see which was popular on the Xbox 360 is a PSN trophy community system added. 

 

So they are not tied to any particular game and they are organised by Sony themselves which you can participate in say certain competitions that are time limited to a certain date and time. So for example 

 

Tuning into the PlayStation Experience event "Gold Trophy unlocked" with some statistics of how many people did this and the option to have it highlighted on your PSN card.

 

Buying a PS5 in the first week of release and unlocking a trophy for owning a PS5 (i have one of these on achievements similar on my Xbox 360 really cool to have) 

 

Having ability to customise your PSN card with certain trophies you loved similar to the PSNP trophy cabinet

 

Trophy stat tracker!!!

trophy statistics just needs to happen really similar to the layout of the Xbox like how many kills for this 1000 kills trophy so yeah a trophy progress tracker in-game this would help a lot with broken games that may not register kills or other trophy-related activities. 

 

Otherwise it would be nice to also when it comes to trophy stacks to have Europe, Australia and North America unified then Asia unified to keep them to a lower count also because they are all English speaking territories would make sense. (could be some flaw in this) Least this way does not matter where you buy your game features like cross-saving and cross-buying would work fine as i recently found out i can't use my Trails of Cold Steel NA version save or download DLC for the Vita unless i have a PS3 NA version to do that then cross-save the DLC items over.... so irritating.

  

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, MMX20 said:

Dude... That's harsh. Those developers put their effort into their games and you want to ban them because you hate effortless trophies? That's cold, dude.

>shovelware

>effort 

b7d.jpg

Btw dont put words in my mouth, I stated effortless trophy lists shouldnt be allowed regardless if they were from shovelware or not, and then I stated that shovelware developers should be banned from publishing their trash (regardless of effortless trophy lists or not) on the store which is completely different from your strawman statement.

Edited by INinjaRaidenI
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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, BlindMango said:

Sony really needs to cut down on these 'shovelware' trophy lists with 15 minute platinums which are repeated 6 times over (6 worthless platinums) for a single game. They need to make standards, like if a game has a platinum trophy it must have 4 gold trophies max, 10 silver max, and the rest bronze, and the platinum cannot be earned within 2 hours. It's unbelievable to see games with a platinum and all the rest gold (no silver or bronze) which you get in mere minutes which are just completely devaluing the usefulness of the system. Getting a platinum trophy no longer is a quick indicator that you put actual effort into a game - leaving sites like this to eventually probably have to make some sort of new indicator to show effort if this mess continues.

 

Besides Sony's complete lack of care of list organization now, the core system itself as it functions still holds up well to this day :P

 

The big change between now and back in the Playstation 3 era is the amount of shovelware games that have come through the pike. Steam basically started the whole trend of having a bunch of shovelware games that nobody put any effort into making just so they could make a few quick bucks.

 

Besides that, as people already mentioned, it's pretty sad when a shitty developer relies on communities like this to sell their games because most casuals wouldn't bother with such crap. Therefore that's why we have six stacks of the games Jack n' Jill DX and Fullblast. I could of done those games back when I was 5 years old when I struggled to play through old NES and SNES games.

 

There is no standard. Sonic Mania has no platinum, yet these shitty games get six different stacks for platinums. Obviously I'm going to value completing Sonic Mania much higher because at least that game takes some effort, even though it was a lot of fun when I played it.

 

7 hours ago, Nighcisama said:

I think a change of sorts would be good. It is kinda dumb that a 10/10 difficulty and 200+ hour platinum has the exact same value in the current system as someones second stack of My Name Is Mayo. Platinums have been devalued greatly by now, as mentioned it is easy to collect 100 platinums in way less than a month by just stacking crappy games on top of each other that serve no other purpose than to boost the platinum number. I am not affected much by it because I do not really care about leaderboards, I judge someones account based on what games are on it, how high the average rarity is etc, but i can understand that people who do care about it get kinda fed up with trophy whores stacking and piling shit up.

 

If a monumental change in the system or the implementation of new types of trophies are too much to ask, and if Sony can't really be bothered to have some standards, maybe just adding a few extra leaderboards that exclude people who fill their accounts with crap to get high on the normal leaderboards is sufficient enough. I can live with either, I build up my account knowing that I will never rank high in any leaderboard, new or old, due to my late start and the fact that I just can't play the hours some of the top people do.

 

It might be a disgusting term, but it fits the players in question perfectly, for their chosen path to play is disgusting in itself. They have every right to play what they want of course, none of my business, but if I see someone with a 60% rarity and 3-5 stacks of every known trophy whore game on their profile I can't help but shudder and shame them a bit. Basically paying money for trophies only, doing the same shitty games multiple times in a row and shroud every good game or impressive achievement between hundreds of crap games and their stacks. One does not have to be an elitist to think this behavior is simply off putting, and actually bad for the industry as it encourages these developers when hundreds of trophy whores flood in to buy 3-5 stacks of their non effort games. Most casuals already think the average trophy hunter is weird, imagine explaining to them that something like this exists.

 

 

The developers are con artists. You have to sink pretty low to rely on a community like this one to exclusively get into your games.

 

As many problems as I have with modern AAA games, I rank shitty indie games that are broken and cheap to be a lot worse.

 

I could be around 15,000 trophies by now if I took the "whoring" thing seriously. I did this for a short while with Sound Shapes and Orc Slayer, but decided it wasn't worth the effort.

 

3 hours ago, Arcesus7 said:

I guess the answer might also depend on whether the person asked cares about leaderboards or not. Not to reignite that conversation, but with all the garbage that can be played nowadays, the leaderboards are neither beginner-friendly (try catching up to the top players if you start hunting today...) nor skill-involved. To me, a leaderboard for an activity that doesn't involve skill doesn't make much sense, which is why personally I don't care about those. Hence: I don't play trash games with easy plats. 

Honestly, I think I couldn't bare looking at my profile it it was flooded with those types of games... 

 

So, does the system need an overhaul? Well I'd like to see Sony regulate the games they put on their store a bit more. Myself I'll never throw money at all that shit, but plenty of players are throwing money down the developer's throats just to inflate their trophy numbers, and that's made possible by the nonexistent regulations that are in place. Wasn't it the dev of the masterpiece "Little Adventures on the Prairie" that openly admitted in an interview that he released that game together with a ridiculously easy trophy list simply to sell it to trophy hunters and finance his next project from the revenue? Ain't that being a monumental dickhead?

 

Hence, to me, the system needs an overhaul not because the current system devalues trophies - which it does -, but because it supports the shitty practices some developers have made their standard. 

 

Which is exactly why I made that thread about the rankings. This response is what I was trying to get into people, but instead I was attacking simply for being offensive and this notion that I was encroaching onto their space because they value trophies so highly above everything else.

 

At the end of the day, I play to have fun. Every once in a blue moon I like to play games that challenge me a bit, such as the game I'm currently on. But I'm not trying to prove I'm good or that I need to stack game after game just to inflate something that really doesn't matter all that much.

 

1 hour ago, pinkrobot_pb said:

I think it's safe to say that the few people at Sony that cared about trophies are long gone. So don't expect an update to Sony's system any time soon. The PSN level being capped at 100 has been pretty tragic for some time now and could (should) have been fixed long ago.

 

If you want to see any other changes, you should advocate for them on this site. But what you should not ever expect is Sony to implement changes to suit PSNP statistics. Let's take rarity for example, it means very little on PSN itself. Almost every plat is ultra rare there.

 

And in the end, we should not forget how this site (and ones like it) are part of 'the problem' too. People primarily use cheesy-easy-peasy plat stacking to gain as many spots on the leaderboards as they can in a short time. It's not so much for their PSN trophy card as it is for this site and others like it.

 

Companies like Ratalaika make a living off of PSNP more than off of PSN itself. Why do you think they have such an  active presence here? Because they know where to market their 10 minute plat games. WE are part of the problem and the longer we deny that and put it all on Sony's doorstep, the longer any 'solution' will take.

 

For some people it's a numbers game.

 

I'm not bashing anybody for the games they play. But this attitude of having to get as many trophies as you possibly can is a bit twisted in my opinion.

 

The problem is when you get a company of hacks that throw out a game in one quick weekend in somebody's shitty garage, and that gets passed because people on this website decided to buy their game and complete it, it slowly becomes the standard. But Sony doesn't care because apparently any shitty game can make it to PSN, without any quality control.

 

1 hour ago, FawltyPowers said:

I think it's time now for Sony to insist all games feature a platinum for consistencies sake or at least have a standard that games have to adhere to in order to feature a platinum trophy. It's turning into a complete mess.

 

I never had any complaints with some games like Sonic Mania which do not have a platinum.

 

While I agree that games like it should have a platinum, there is really no standard anymore when it comes to exactly what gets a platinum and what doesn't.

 

Hitman 2 having over 100 trophies WITHOUT A PLATINUM while a game like The Witness which has a bunch of gold trophies AND A PLATINUM tells you the story right there.

 

1 hour ago, UlvenFenrir said:

i voted that its outdated. its extremely outdated. they need to make it so that every game has an in-game trophy tracker especially for open world games/rpgs or trophies that requires farming/grinding.

 

the trophy system also needs a search function for a particular game when going through your trophy list as its just cumbersome to scroll through your entire list everytime youre looking for a certain game.

 

Games have done this for over 10 years now. It's nothing new.

 

I will agree that more games need to have an in-game tracker. It's pretty aggravating when you're grinding some trophies and you have no idea how much further you need to go.

 

PSN needs to have that search option. Right now you have to scroll down hundreds of games to find the game you're looking for, which is pretty inefficient and slow.

Edited by Spaz
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13 hours ago, MMX20 said:

I agree with this post. I mean, who cares about achieving something that you should be proud of? Most gamers like us play for fun and it doesn't matter if you earn or don't earn platinum trophies, it's about having fun.

 

Yes it is about fun. But it becomes a problem if some players avoid certain games because they are too hard or too long. Than your hobby of achieving platinums stands over actual gaming. Which is fine I guess but something I really don't understand. I also think that the word "achievement" means that you have to achive something (duh). Participation trophies devalued trophies within our bubble and I think it is necessary to talk about it. Commercialization is a big problem in many fields (hobbies, sports, movies, games, etc.) and is now a problem with this hobby. I don't wanna argue that the amount of shovel ware in the PS-Store is that huge because of developers providing a market for "trophy whores" but it probably has a little to do with it.

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1 minute ago, Gommes_ said:

 

Yes it is about fun. But it becomes a problem if some players avoid certain games because they are too hard or too long. Than your hobby of achieving platinums stands over actual gaming. Which is fine I guess but something I really don't understand. I also think that the word "achievement" means that you have to achive something (duh). Participation trophies devalued trophies within our bubble and I think it is necessary to talk about it. Commercialization is a big problem in many fields (hobbies, sports, movies, games, etc.) and is now a problem with this hobby. I don't wanna argue that the amount of shovel ware in the PS-Store is that huge because of developers providing a market for "trophy whores" but it probably has a little to do with it.

 

Dead Space 2 is a good example. I remember playing it on the 360 back in early 2011 being real impressed with the graphics and how tense it was. But Hard Core difficulty is something a lot of players would avoid because it is something they feel is too difficult.

 

All the bitching and moaning about the Mein Leben trophy in Wolfenstein 2: The New Colossus pretty much tells the story. I was going to buy that game regardless of how difficult it was or how long it was going to take me to get through it. I'm a huge Wolfenstein fan and have been for as long as I remember, so even if I can't get Mein Leben due to my lack of commitment and skill, it wasn't going to bother me.

 

Participation trophies are debatable. I feel they are necessary for story progression, because it would be absolutely silly not to include some trophies for playing the story. But if you were to argue that you got said trophy without doing anything, then I can see your argument.

 

Commercialization is a whole nother topic however. Though I don't quite understand what you mean by it.

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Spaz said:

Commercialization is a whole nother topic however. Though I don't quite understand what you mean by it.

 

Commercialization is something companies do to attract a new audience (not saying you didn't know that 😉). Look at soccer for instance. The hardcore fans are mad about the commercial changes, cause it drifts away from the actual sport. Inviting the most popular singer for a halftime show is something the audience does not want, at all. This is a move to lure other people to these events, who know nothing about the sport and just there for the show. This is perfectly fine but nothing the core audience wants. On top of that, the core audience made the sport great in the first place, so that companies have more and more money to acually invite these superstars.

 

This is the same I see with the rise of super easy and quick games. Some players want platinums even though they are not "good enough". Our hobby revolved around the extra mile you had to go in order to achieve trophies. Companies saw the potential to create "games" so no one feels excluded and to make profit by creating shovel ware. But achievements were never about inclusion, that's why they called "achievements".

 

So on paper a platinum in My Name is Mayo is the same as a platinum in Wolfenstein II. Now we have a new audience within our hobby who are in this game for different reasons and who never saw the appeal of fighting through tough games and get a "reward" in form of a trophy. I said it in another thread already but whatever: Our hobby is weird and trophies never meant anything, at least outside of our bubble. Within it means a lot and it is totally normal to criticize certain developments. And someone might call me elitist but when I am totally honest, yes I am exactly that. I don't want "trophy ******" being affiliated with our hobby. And yes, even I am aware that everybody defines that differently.

Edited by Gommes_
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3 minutes ago, Gommes_ said:

Commercialization is something companies do to attract a new audience (not saying you didn't know that 1f609.png). Look at soccer for instance. The hardcore fans are mad about the commercial changes, cause it drifts away from the actual sport. Inviting the most popular singer for a halftime show is something the audience does not want, at all. This is a move to lure other people to these events, who know nothing about the sport and just there for the show. This is perfectly fine but nothing the core audience wants. On top of that, the core audience made the sport great in the first place, so that companies have more and more money to acually invite these superstars.

 

This is a problem with American Football. The halftime show at the Superbowl every February is one of the most polluted events I know.

 

They brought in Beyonce and Justin Timberlake. These two are national and world class superstars who are among the most successful of their time. Musically I don't see them to be all that great. But they are some of the most popular and them along with such acts as Taylor Swift and Rihanna try to attract more of a general audience, including people who otherwise would know nothing about the sport.

 

Turns out the Superbowl is the most popular televised event here in America. So obviously the commercials and the halftime show are going to be all about the show.

 

6 minutes ago, Gommes_ said:

This is the same I see with the rise of super easy and quick games. Some players want platinums even though they are not "good enough". Our hobby revolved around the extra mile you had to do in order to achieve trophies. Companies saw the potential to create "games" so no one feels excluded and to make profit by creating shovel ware. But achievements were never about inclusion, that's why they called "achievements".

 

I think the issue is that us as people and a society have become a lot more lazy and less willing to put in the work compared to what we used to have to do.

 

Games used to be generally more difficult. 20 years ago I would go to my local Blockbuster and rent a Nintendo 64 game. Not only were those games more difficult but there was a chance I rented a shitty game, in which I was stuck with it. Plus with what is now considered to be outdated internet, we didn't have as many options.

 

Today I can take an off day from work, sit on my computer chair and literally buy around 10 - 20 easy as piss games that I know have extremely easy platinums. It would probably take me just one day or two to get through them all.

 

That's one reason why I think indie games that offer a bit of variety and some challenge give me the most satisfaction. AAA games have gotten a lot easier and while I still enjoy a lot of them, they don't allure me like they did back in the Playstation 3 era and earlier. I guess it's because I've gotten older and my tastes are gravitating more towards cooking and watching classic Sopranos and Breaking Bad reruns.

 

12 minutes ago, Gommes_ said:

So on paper a platinum in My Name is Mayo is the same as a platinum in Wolfenstein II. Now we have a new audience within our hobby who are in this game for different reasons and who never saw the appeal of fighting through tough games and get a "reward" in form of a trophy. I said it in another thread already but whatever: Our hobby is weird and trophies never meant anything, at least outside of our bubble. Within it means a lot and it is totally normal to criticize certain developments. And someone might call me elitist but when I am totally honest, yes I am exactly that. I don't want "trophy ******" being affiliated with our hobby. And yes, even I am aware that everybody defines that differently.

 

I took My Name is Mayo to be some sort of joke and I still do. People were pretty upset over at PST.org.

 

The very notion that one trophy in Wolfenstein II is enough to make people not buy the game at all is sad and ridiculous.

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Posted (edited)

My thoughts, mostly common with other users here:

  • Making common trophies (50%+ rarity) worth 0 points would be fine enough, it would completely shut down purpose of developing piss-easy games designed only for trivial plat. On PSNP it would be a bit harsh because many more games (especially longer ones like Marvel's Spider-Man) would net you no points, but it's not important right now.
  • Instead of giving bronze/silver/gold for non-specified reason, Sony could give it based on rarity (gold for ultra rare <5%, silver for very rare 5-20%, bronze for rare 20-50% or something like that).
  • Give every game a plat, and maybe even give additional trophy for completing game with dlc. VVVVVV, Trials Fusion or Sine Mora deserve to have a plat.
  • Remove games with two different trophy lists based on region (merge NA, EU etc. lists), because exactly same game having different rarity (I was surprised to see that Hollow Knight EU version has twice more common platinum than NA version).
Edited by Spinosaurus Rex
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12 hours ago, Mohd_AAAA said:

I have a few suggestions:

1. Stop trophy stacks all together, whether be it regional stacks, device stacks, or remastered/original stacks.

Exceptions:

A. If a game is completely different across devices (eg. Lego games between PS4/PS3 and Vita).

B. If a remastered version has seen a significant change compared to its original release.

C. If a game has different/cut content across regions.

 

2. Give every game a platinum trophy, with no exceptions. It will give uniformity to the trophy system.

 

3. Add a new icon to represent a completed DLC trophies in a game. Just like platinums should represent a complete base game trophy list. Another icon should be added to a players profile with a number of it's own to represent a complete DLC trophy list in a game. The plus icon in the default DLC trophy icon is a good choice.

 

4. Force developers to add an offline requirement to trophies with online requirement (eg. Mass Effect 3/Andromeda). This will stop trophies from being unobtainable due to server closure which is the most common cause for a trophy to be unobtainable.

Exceptions:

A. Online-only games.

 

Some of these will affect my trophy hunting (trophy stacking) but it ultimately will serve to make the trophy system better.

I pretty much agree with every one of your points.

 

Some people have mentioned deleting games from your list no matter the percentage which I don't think is a good idea at all, cause as someone pointed out, everyone would have perfect profiles diminishing the accomplishment of people that actually put the work in and maintain a 100% profile. However, I think deleting games that are <5% should be an option as it won't affect your profile/level much and it would be handy for people that start a game, get one trophy and realise they don't like it. If that happened I could finally delete ESO and PAIN off my profile!

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That is actually a really boss idea!  Making the xp earnerd from the rarer the trophy higher would prove to be very interesting.

 

In all honesty I strongly doubt it will ever happen though as there would be way too much money to be lost in implementing it.

 

I've been a hardcore trophy hunter for around 8 years now and I'll not lie I'm also a massive trophy whore and love me a nice easy slutty plat and watching a whole lotta trophies rain down after a big massive grindy/hard game.  I know that there will lots out there that think, what a dick head littering his profile with that crap!  But lucky for me I've never given a shiny shite as to what anyone else thinks of me and never will.  I'll never understand why anyone gives such a massive shit about anyone elses profile other than their own in all honesty.

 

At the end of the day gaming is something I have loved since I was 5 and has and always will be my main hobby.  There is no denying how the start of the trophy/achievment feature changed everything in gaming forever.  When I first got my PS3 all those years ago I had no idea what the hell all these little random ding boxes evern were that kept popping up and didn't care, It took me a few months to even bother getting online.  As time went on and I realised what these trophies were I got round to earning my very first plat on a game I enjoyed a whole hell of a lot, Alice Madness returns.  And that is when the addiction began for me................  And now here we are!  One big happy...... For the most part!  Family lol.

 

Can't we all just GETAAAAAAALONG!!!!

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Posted (edited)

Not necessarily pertaining to trophies, but I do think there needs to be some kind of quality control on the PSN (actually in this industry as a whole) to keep out shovelware garbage games.

 

Orc Slayer, Life of Black Tiger, and My name is Mayo to name a few. Many of these low quality games try to entice people with easy platinums as well, sometimes with trophies being the sole reason such garbage gets pushed out. (I'm looking at you, 1000 Top Rated)

Edited by jaehyun1009
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Not really but I would love to have some sort of tracking (number of enemy killed) like Xbox

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People who fast forward through VNs without taking the effort to actually read them are the worst

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16 hours ago, diskdocx said:

- and you aren't getting anywhere near the top of the boards on EZPZs alone.

 

Well the way things are heading that is certainly a possibility. Thats the main concern when you see these types of threads.  

 

Restrictions on how many stacks a game can have and whether or not (very) short games have a plat and 1200 points would help improve the system and add some value back into it. It will never be like it used to but hopefully it will get better 

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16 hours ago, AK-1138 said:

Well, or one, they should allow you to delete games from your trophy list regardless of completion percentage,

Would be nice. Hate hiding shut down games, or games I have no intention of ever playing (or can't plat...) like GTA V, Midnight Club LA, BO2. :/ 

16 hours ago, Hakoom said:

yes it is and it should have some updates

 

they need to 1st increase the level cap

Agreed. PSNP/PSNTL shows proof that there's quite a few level 100+ achievers out there, so it makes no sense that PSN doesn't get rid of the level cap already. People like you and others should be able to know their real level without having to update a leaderboard site each time. 

16 hours ago, Hakoom said:

yes it is and it should have some updates

 

they need to 1st increase the level cap

Agreed. PSNP/PSNTL shows proof that there's quite a few level 100+ achievers out there, so it makes no sense that PSN doesn't get rid of the level cap already. People like you and others should be able to know their real level without having to update a leaderboard site each time. 

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Some good ideas in the OP, but I like the system as it is. 

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The only thing I'd like to see is a progress tracker like XBOX does. Aside from that nothing should change

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I think overall the way trophies are is fine but I would like to see them add one thing.  That thing is a diamond trophy worth 100 points for any game that is not a platinum.  I feel even if it is not a platinum game that you should get an extra bonus too for finishing all the trophies that are offered within that game.

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@Spaz But the thread you made pissed off a lot of people who love to get trophies and they were pretty upset with that. So maybe if you think before you act while making that thread, you should have been safe from the people who were pissed off with you on the thread you made.

 

Anyway, Undead_Wolf has some good ideas on a trophy system overhaul despite me thinking the trophy system is fine as it is, but some ideas on improving it is also good.

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I'm just dreaming of a trophy tracker in game like this:

 

 

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The only real change IMO should be changing the weighting of the points system based on rarity, i.e. 2% rarity = 98 points, 98% rarity = 2 points (obviously not exactly like this, but something along those lines). Other than that, don't really care that much tbh, I just mainly look at trophies as a way to manage my backlog

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No more online trophies unless the game is online only. So many PS3 games had crappy tacked-on multiplayer with some piddly trophies to go with it. Anything that wasn't CoD pretty much died within a few weeks save for lifers that make getting them legit impossible, or the servers have closed completely and thus the plats are unobtainable.

 

I realise that many will think that's not a good idea but whatever

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I love the trophy system! Before buying a game, the first thing I check is its trophy list. The only things I would change in the system is:

  • We should have a way to delete trophy lists that aren't 0%;
  • Developers/Sony should find a way to avoid multiple trophy lists for the same game but different platforms;

As some of you already said, there are trophies that are unattainable at the moment, and an incomplete trophy list, really bugs a lot of people (me included). So we should have a way to delete trophy lists that aren't 0%.

 

Regarding the multiple trophy lists for the same game: I think developers should do something like the Final Fantasy X HD trophy list, where the same game, has the same trophy list, for all the platforms. I mean, if I complete the game on the PS3, why should I have a different trophy list on the PS4 or PS Vita if it is exactly the same game, thus the same challenges?

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