The rubberbanding is a joke (aka why this game sucks)

[LoughNessMonster]

This game has annoyed me enough that I'm making a thread just to complain about it.

 

Example video.

 

I can't understand how such awful design made it into the final game. No matter how well you do in a race or eliminator, there are constantly other racers right behind you. You can drive perfectly for the whole race and still not escape them. This means that you can't even recover from a single crash if it happens to be near the end of the race. Even if you've done the rest perfectly, you'll have to restart the whole thing, and given that races can be 5+ minutes, this is beyond a joke.

 

Update: Here's another example. Opponent snaps from being 23 seconds behind to right behind in less than a second... They move so fast the game can't even handle it and they judder/glitch before crashing.

Edited April 15, 2019 by LoughNessMonster

[rubhen925]

12 minutes ago, LoughNessMonster said:

This game has annoyed me enough that I'm making a thread just to complain about it.

 

Example video.

 

I can't understand how such awful design made it into the final game. No matter how well you do in a race or eliminator, there are constantly other racers right behind you. You can drive perfectly for the whole race and still not escape them. This means that you can't even recover from a single crash if it happens to be near the end of the race. Even if you've done the rest perfectly, you'll have to restart the whole thing, and given that races can be 5+ minutes, this is beyond a joke.

 

you're not the only one who thinks the rubberbanding is ass. Formula DD event 1. I am winning by 23 seconds, like 50 m from the finish line, and the car just zips past me. broke my controller at that point. This game is just imbalanced. Not sure what the devs were thinking. Definitely did not test this game at all

[LoughNessMonster]

16 minutes ago, NekoRave said:

I mean, doesn't it make the win more satisfying if it's just a no crash gold? 

 

That's not really the issue I'm having. I do find no-crash runs satisfying. (I have an entirely separate issue with that though - the two available camera angles are terrible. Driving around corners is blind luck. The frequent sun-glare effect doesn't help at all. Also, I've seen traffic randomly spawning and teleporting along the road. Perfect runs are absolutely not skill based - there's a lot of luck involved. Which, as it happens, only compounds the rubberbanding issue...)

 

My problem is that no matter how well you do, the AI are always right behind you. Even if you take them all out and boost off, they'll catch up immediately. They frequently overtake you during the "takedown cam," which is when the game takes control away from you, and not just when you crash. It's just bad design.

 

The AI in Burnout Paradise was far better, IMO. I can't remember it rubberbanding too badly, and they were even aggressive, and actively tried to take you out. The AI in this doesn't even do that, despite it being a core game feature. Survival mode just sucks - in Paradise, you had to try not to get taken out. In this, you just drive and try not to crash - there aren't even opponents in it...

Edited April 14, 2019 by LoughNessMonster

[Sydoki]

Ooof that video was hard to watch...my slightest interest in this game went out the window ?

[KingCob95]

You are aware of the term slipstream and how it works in racing? Get far enough ahead to not give the slipstream to the opponent its easy enough lol, stop blaming the game cos you're not good enough to do that, also to the people saying they don't want to play the game now cos of 8 seconds of footage and a guy complaining about not being good enough are just as moronic lmao 

[LoughNessMonster]

11 minutes ago, Joey said:

You are aware of the term slipstream and how it works in racing? Get far enough ahead to not give the slipstream to the opponent its easy enough lol, stop blaming the game cos you're not good enough to do that, also to the people saying they don't want to play the game now cos of 8 seconds of footage and a guy complaining about not being good enough are just as moronic lmao 

 

So the slipstream let them drive 600mph? Because to catch me as quick as they did, they'd need to be going at least that fast. Seems legit, alright.

Edited April 14, 2019 by LoughNessMonster

[zeero7uk]

Yea it's so annoying, especially in the eliminator events. I don't mind a challenging game, but I hate cheating games. 

[AK-1138]

Save the environment; DELETE rubberbanding

[EmperorElfenSky]

 

As a child when I was absolutely furious when I played Pacific Rift, where rubberbanding was a huge issue. Given I didn't understand coding or that rubberbanding was a thing I couldn't understand why I kept on loosing.

After all, what kid would think staying behind most of the race and only getting first place on the last lap is a valid strategy?

 

Thanks for telling me how big of an issue it is in this game. I had some interesting to start it, but now I will let it pass by my side.

[LoughNessMonster]

30 minutes ago, NekoRave said:

In burnout you can turn the takedown cam off is this possible? Also if you lag behind and then at the end do a perfect lap does this negate the issue? Or is it where if you lag at all it's impossible to gold?

 

I mean with burnout it wasn't so rng but I could in my sleep do the perfect runs, minus some tracks where milliseconds mattered (time lap, white mountain reverse).

 

And idk if paradise to this is a good comparison but I am curious if it's designed where late game they get more aggressive.

 

In Revenge some AI were ruthless and would wipe you out last min

Yes, it's possible to turn it off. And yes, that strategy somewhat works. It can backfire though as it can be very difficult to catch up if the opponents pull too far ahead (i.e. if you crash) - the rubberbanding doesn't pull them back anywhere near as much as it lets them catch up.

 

I think they do get slightly more aggressive as the game goes on. I'm about 70% of the way through now and I've noticed that the AI shunts me more often, but that's it. The occasional shunt - nothing like trying to bash me into things or run me off the road, which is what I'd expect. I think I've been "taken out" twice during my entire playthrough and both times were because I made a mistake and crashed after bashing an opponent.

Edited April 14, 2019 by LoughNessMonster

[Dauersack]

And I was so ready to break my racing game embargo with this game. Gotta say no to it now though. Rubberbanding is a shitty practice in racing games, it is pretty much the developers admitting they are either too dumb or too lazy to programm decent ai that can keep up with a player. They make the ai cheat and let you defeat yourself, punishing players for trying to do well in the game. Rubberbanding in a racing game is the same kind of shit as a strategy game that has the ai enemies cheating like mad with ressources and troops because having ai capable of playing the game normally is too much of a hassle to get.

 

If the most valid strategy in this racing game is forcing you to intentionally drive like shit and stay behind for most of the race to only make a dash for the first place place at the very end of the race, because the rubberband mechanic is so out of control it may just screw you over otherwise, then this game is not worth buying. Shame really, would have loved to play a successor of Burnout Revenge, but not like this, hope they patch it.

[Viper]

Why do devs continue to use Rubberbanding AI when literally no one likes it? If I'm good enough to win a race 49 seconds ahead of the second place guy...then let me have that, it only helps me feel better about the game anyways. I'd rather win when I'm way ahead, then having a close call that just stresses me out. 

 

Racing games used to be one of my favorite genres. I still miss the days of Need for Speed: Most Wanted on PS2. But ever since last gen, I've really failed to find one I truly love again. Either they're stupidly difficult. or have this rubberbanding crap that just makes it a chore to play. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Viper

[Conker]

This sucks to hear this, was excited for this game, rubberbanding is truly something that should be abolished in racing games. so far this sounds nowhere near as good as Burnout Paradise wise 

[diskdocx]

3 hours ago, Joey said:

You are aware of the term slipstream and how it works in racing? Get far enough ahead to not give the slipstream to the opponent its easy enough lol, stop blaming the game cos you're not good enough to do that, also to the people saying they don't want to play the game now cos of 8 seconds of footage and a guy complaining about not being good enough are just as moronic lmao 

You are aware of the term rubberbanding, and how it works in racing games? This mechanic is put in specifically to prevent you from getting too far ahead, regardless of skill. It is supposed to represent a dynamic experience so that the game can better adapt to different skill levels. Instead of having relatively set race times, that might be either too hard, or too easy for some gamers, rubberbanding is supposed to create a more custom race experience so that the AI is always close. Unfortunately for skilled racers this also creates ridiculous AI that has abilities over and above the player, such as cornering at much higher speeds or top speed above that of the player.

 

This does not have to be the case, but poorly designed rubberbanding AI often has this result. There are many other games that have this problem as well.

 

Often the best solution is to actually dial back your performance a bit, as the AI pack will often slow down to keep you close, then you can pour it on close to the end before they can adapt.

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by diskdocx

[LoughNessMonster]

I've found an even worse example on youtube, at the timestamp in this video.

 

The opponent goes from 23 seconds behind to immediately behind in a fraction of a second... The car is moving so fast it even judders/glitches before crashing.

This game is a joke. I recommend not buying until they fix this crap.

Edited April 15, 2019 by LoughNessMonster

[zeero7uk]

I've kinda found a work around. Once you are in the lead don't use your turbo whatsoever, the more you use it the more the AI will rubberband against you 

[Martain2]

19 minutes ago, zer007uk said:

I've kinda found a work around. Once you are in the lead don't use your turbo whatsoever, the more you use it the more the AI will rubberband against you 

Ah, the old MotorStorm method.

[Schwarz88]

Really guys i don't know what your Problem is. This was the same with every Burnout game before. This one actually is much easier because 1 mile before the finish the AI slows down like crazy. So it doesn't matter at all as Long as you are close to the 3 cars in front you win the game easy. Otherwise there were some challenging Events but just finish it on Bronze, get the other cars unlocked and use one of them. I mean if you Play heatwave with the Standard Vehicle it's you fault to not winnig it. It's simple as that. Don't tell the People such stupid stuff and to be honest there are games out there that are way more difficult than this. 

The Race Events are really simple and if you are someone who played the old Burnout games till Revenge you will have no Problems with this game in 60 of the 69 Events. The rest is just Trial and error. Only the F1 Heatwave is kinda crazy because of the AI glitch, but not boosting the last half of the last round should get you through this without any Trouble.

And to be honest i like it way more to earn my first place and my platinum instead if you just want some stupid game that you plat with just klicking one button or so. Play "My Name is Mayo"... damn Gamers today don't know what a real challenge is.  

Don't let you tell wrong stuff here, the game is really simple and not that challenging if you know those Kind of games. Like i said, if you played the old Burnout games, this will be no Problem for you. Just use the cars Right and it will be Pretty simple. And you have just that one F1 challenge left with the glitching cars, but like one wrote above. Just don't boost the last Part and you should be save. Otherwise, the Developers are Aware of the Problem but like some of you should know, the developers behind this game are Independent and just a Team of 7 People. So get your balls down, chill and wait till they patch it. But give them the time to do so. This is not EA with lots of cash behind it. And for a Team of 7 developers and an Independent Budget this game is quite well made. If you compare it to your high class triple AAA 200 Million Dollar games who have way more Bugs and glitches today than this small Independent game.

Peace and enjoy the game who isn't afraid of sth. that is called "challenge" ;-) 

[Viper]

2 hours ago, Schwarz88 said:

Really guys i don't know what your Problem is. This was the same with every Burnout game before. This one actually is much easier because 1 mile before the finish the AI slows down like crazy. So it doesn't matter at all as Long as you are close to the 3 cars in front you win the game easy. Otherwise there were some challenging Events but just finish it on Bronze, get the other cars unlocked and use one of them. I mean if you Play heatwave with the Standard Vehicle it's you fault to not winnig it. It's simple as that. Don't tell the People such stupid stuff and to be honest there are games out there that are way more difficult than this. 

The Race Events are really simple and if you are someone who played the old Burnout games till Revenge you will have no Problems with this game in 60 of the 69 Events. The rest is just Trial and error. Only the F1 Heatwave is kinda crazy because of the AI glitch, but not boosting the last half of the last round should get you through this without any Trouble.

And to be honest i like it way more to earn my first place and my platinum instead if you just want some stupid game that you plat with just klicking one button or so. Play "My Name is Mayo"... damn Gamers today don't know what a real challenge is.  

Don't let you tell wrong stuff here, the game is really simple and not that challenging if you know those Kind of games. Like i said, if you played the old Burnout games, this will be no Problem for you. Just use the cars Right and it will be Pretty simple. And you have just that one F1 challenge left with the glitching cars, but like one wrote above. Just don't boost the last Part and you should be save. Otherwise, the Developers are Aware of the Problem but like some of you should know, the developers behind this game are Independent and just a Team of 7 People. So get your balls down, chill and wait till they patch it. But give them the time to do so. This is not EA with lots of cash behind it. And for a Team of 7 developers and an Independent Budget this game is quite well made. If you compare it to your high class triple AAA 200 Million Dollar games who have way more Bugs and glitches today than this small Independent game.

Peace and enjoy the game who isn't afraid of sth. that is called "challenge" ;-) 

Jesus Christ...will people stop with this mentality? Where did gamers get it in their head that games are supposed to be challenging? Games are supposed to be a relaxing escape. Not something that stresses you out. Stop thinking Contra and Battle Toads are how games are meant to be...they were freak accidents.

 

Rubberbanding AI doesn't work...it never has, hence why no one likes it. It's a false sense of difficulty that ruins the entire experience. And this is for any racing game. The best racing games I've ever played...don't utilize this feature. 

 

Like I said before...I much prefer knowing I can smoke the competition, then have them arbitrarily catch up to me like the game suddenly made them go 500MPH with rocket jets. This was really bad in games like Need for Speed 2015...where you could get WAY ahead, then all of the sudden you see the 2nd place cars icon in the mini map speeding towards you with speeds that are clearly far beyond the limit of the game...then they pass you. You did absolutely nothing wrong with your driving, but the game screws you just because. Or Riptide GP2, where the rubberbanding is so bad that simply getting ahead is a chore...after that good luck keeping your position, one small mistake and the whole pack passes you, so it turns into a game of just constantly restarting over and over. That's not fun, it's not challenging, it's just arbitrary crap programming.

 

Now I haven't played Dangerous Driving, but as soon as someone confirms Rubberbanding AI, my interest drops off. This falls into the "wait for a sale with a serious price drop" territory.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Viper

[LoughNessMonster]

On 4/15/2019 at 10:15 PM, Schwarz88 said:

And to be honest i like it way more to earn my first place and my platinum instead if you just want some stupid game that you plat with just klicking one button or so. Play "My Name is Mayo"... damn Gamers today don't know what a real challenge is.  

Don't let you tell wrong stuff here, the game is really simple and not that challenging if you know those Kind of games. Like i said, if you played the old Burnout games, this will be no Problem for you. Just use the cars Right and it will be Pretty simple. And you have just that one F1 challenge left with the glitching cars, but like one wrote above. Just don't boost the last Part and you should be save. Otherwise, the Developers are Aware of the Problem but like some of you should know, the developers behind this game are Independent and just a Team of 7 People. So get your balls down, chill and wait till they patch it. But give them the time to do so. This is not EA with lots of cash behind it. And for a Team of 7 developers and an Independent Budget this game is quite well made. If you compare it to your high class triple AAA 200 Million Dollar games who have way more Bugs and glitches today than this small Independent game.

Peace and enjoy the game who isn't afraid of sth. that is called "challenge" ;-) 

Punishing players for doing well is not a "real challenge." It's stupidity. If you have to hang back until the finish line to win a race in a racing game, then your game is fundamentally broken. If the core driving mechanics consist of boosting and going as fast as you can, then why on earth would I want to hang back? It'd be like trying to do a pacifism run in Doom.

 

And I disagree, this game is riddled with bugs:

• I took an opponent out earlier in a Face Off, and when he respawned, he was 20 seconds ahead of me...
• The game lags significantly when you enter tunnels as the next area loads.
• When a new area loads, the weather doesn't match the weather in the previous area - in the Hypercar Pursuit, you start in a snow-covered, overcast winter landscape, then enter a short tunnel, then emerge into a bright and sunny day.
• Traffic randomly appears on the road.
• The traffic randomly crashes, even if nothing else is near them.
• Vehicle takedowns (i.e. when you bash an opponent into a car) are frequently not registered.
• Bashing an opponent from behind at high speed causes them mount your car and take you out rather than the expected behaviour of them being shunted.
• Crashing is inconsistent - I can sometimes bash into traffic head-on at 100+mph and be fine, but then tap a guard rail at 5mph and wipe out.
• Crashing often causes you to fly downwards, down through the road and out into the skybox.
• Pursuits sometimes end randomly, long before the enemies have had a chance to escape.
• If you crash into another car, you are frequently respawned right in front of their wreck, causing you to crash again as you tap into it a 2mph.
• Signs sometimes break on impact, yet the same sign sometimes transmutes to adamantium and causes you to crash.
• Headlights on oncoming cars flicker constantly, even if you're not in their lane.
• Traffic sometimes drives on the wrong side of the road.
• When the traffic is on the wrong side, you get an oncoming bonus for being in their lane, even though you're on the correct side of the road.
• When an enemy Boost Shunts me, nothing happens. Didn't you lose boost in Burnout when that happened?
• The wheels on several cars don't turn sideways when the car is turning.
• Opponents don't move realistically - they glide across the ground and judder from position to position rather than doing anything resembling driving. 

How about some more bad design decisions:

• The default camera (and the alternate camera) makes it impossible to see ahead of you unless you're driving in a straight line. Turning into a corner is always about 50% blind luck.
• Drifting feels terrible. It's possible to get all gold medals (and even several platinum) without drifting - just slowing down to about 60mph for the corners, so I wonder if the devs who set the times felt the same way... How come I can get a platinum medal in a game called Dangerous Driving by doing safer driving?
• The sunlight glare effect on several tracks is blinding. Just because something looks nice doesn't mean it makes for good gameplay.
• Some tracks go on for far too long. Races often last 7+ minutes. This isn't too much of an issue on its own, but when the game is a buggy as this and you can lose thanks to so many things which aren't your fault, having to restart a 7 minute race is unacceptable.
• The game uses miles on the odometer and speedometer, but metres for all other distances on the HUD.
• The tracks are all so similar, I genuinely can't tell the difference between them. The are no distinguishing or outstanding features on any of them. They all just wind through generic featureless landscapes.
• The final Road Rage in the game randomly introduces the Damage Critical mechanic from Burnout. As far as I can tell, this is the only time in the game this is used, and it's presence or how the mechanic works is never explained to the player.
• All events start with some text on screen giving instructions on how to win the event. However, some events (e.g. races) require this text to be dismissed by pressing X, while others just start automatically after a few seconds (e.g. pursuit). Why the bizarre lack of consistency?
• The 1000 miles in any car and 100 miles in all cars trophies are disgraceful. Given that the top speed of the fastest car is 220mph, you're looking at 5 hours minimum of grinding just for the 1000 miles one. Devs who implement trophies like this should be ashamed - it shows no respect for players and is just a cheap way to extend the time they spend on your game. 

I paid €30 for this game, and it feels like I've paid that money not for a finished product, but for an early-access beta. It needed much more testing before release. So yeah, I'm absolutely warning others to stay away until the devs fix the game. And if they don't, then it's not worth anyone's money in its current state. Or maybe hardcore Burnout fans if it drops to 5 or 10 quid on sale.

 

Anyway, maybe I should go play My Name Is Mayo like you suggested. At least I know it works properly and that I'm getting what I pay for...

Edited April 18, 2019 by LoughNessMonster

[ElBolovo]

On 14/04/2019 at 5:07 PM, Joey said:

You are aware of the term slipstream and how it works in racing? Get far enough ahead to not give the slipstream to the opponent its easy enough lol, stop blaming the game cos you're not good enough to do that, also to the people saying they don't want to play the game now cos of 8 seconds of footage and a guy complaining about not being good enough are just as moronic lmao 

 

You must be delusional if you think someone FOUR SECONDS BEHIND YOU can get some slipsteaming to such a degree where he can recover 4 seconds of difference in ~2 seconds while the leader is in the REV LIMITER. 

[Hayabusa85]

23 hours ago, LoughNessMonster said:

I've found an even worse example on youtube, at the timestamp in this video.

 

The opponent goes from 23 seconds behind to immediately behind in a fraction of a second... The car is moving so fast it even judders/glitches before crashing.

This game is a joke. I recommend not buying until they fix this crap.

 

They have confirmed ones like that are a glitch that they thought they had caught in testing.  So the really extreme cases should be patched at least. 

[yowzagabowza]

This game looked bad from the get go. I can't believe so many people bought into the burnout hype.

[AvengedEvil]

For me, the rubberbanding AI isn't the issue. Imho, the worst part is the traffic. How should you beat Hyperclass and Formula DD survivals when the roads are full of traffic that comes out of nowhere? Every turn has a 50% chance that you crash into a car. Spamming the road with traffic is just a cheap way to make an easy game unnecessary hard.

[RomSn3]

I totally agree, the AI is absolutely terrible in this game. I am so regretful about buying this game. So frustrating and nothing like I imagined.