Theraputic Rage Quit Thread - Isshin

[phoenix_shade]

So I just wanted to write down my thoughts in the community because I haven't rage quit this hard in decades and it's not healthy to punch things.

 

Sword Saint Isshin. 

 

I've spent about 11 hours now trying to beat this thing. It's single handedly the hardest end boss I've ever faced in my lifetime.

 

Yeah I know, lots of you guys think it's easy and I should "Git Gud" but have a heart here.

 

The thing is, I've watched all the videos and I've read all the websites and they are simply no help to me at all. I have come to the conclusion that the game is literally too fast for me and I can't survive the up close and personal approaches.  I've died probably close to 100 times already. I will grudgingly admit that I'm slowly beginning to pick up the patterns and variations in the combos and when to expect the Mikiri Counter, but man is this hard to keep the will to keep going. 

 

The toughest part for me is that it takes me a good 5 minutes or so just to get to phase 3, and then its a matter of how much can I practice this before getting screwed by the game.

 

How do I get screwed?

 

Getting stuck on rocks.

Falling off the cliff.

Getting cornered against the mountainside.

The target lock disengaging followed by me frantically trying to get enough distance to turn the camera and lock back on.. but oh wait, I get hit again.

And the most frustrating one of all: Pressing L1 and holding to block, and EVERY HIT comes through anyway. Happened more times that I can count.

 

I've tried the bait and slash leap cheese, but it takes 20 hits or so to advance the phase and half the time I just get slashed anyway.

 

I've now been trying to just deflect and parry while waiting on the mikiri counters, which allows me to get in one hit before jumping backwards to safety. I figure I get the boss to half health and i should be able to knock him out with the counters easily. I haven't been able to get him down to half yet.

 

I recognize there are some opportunities to land an extra hit here or there, but I am not good enough yet to register these moments with my brain until it's too late. For example when he stores up wind before slashing the spear AOE. I've seen ppl just jump at him and get off a couple slashes. But what happens when I get the chance? I freak out and always jump backwards. *sigh*

 

I've tried sidestepping the spear leap as suggested in other places and get hit every time I try to dodge anyway. I've tried deflecting the spear jump and sometimes that gets me a hit, but half the time I get hit trying to jump back afterwards.

 

I have seen phase 4 one time so far, and I freaked out and all the things I mentioned earlier all happened and eventually I died falling off the cliff.

 

It wouldn't have mattered anyway because I'm too beat up from phase 3 and have no health left.

 

This is intended as a form of therapy for me to avoid smashing my ps4 and throwing it at my tv.

 

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

 

Please share your rage with me.

 

( I am going to say I like the game and I'm not going to say bad design or anything, but the Block no block thing... wow)

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by phoenix_shade

[Alaquia]

1 hour ago, phoenix_shade said:

 

Yeah I know, lots of you guys think it's easy and I should "Git Gud" but have a heart here.

 

 

in nearly every boss list for sekiro he is number 1 by far, so those "git gud" guys can safely be ignored

 

I downed him in NG and NG+1 and both times he was a huge roadblock. I can't even give you some personal advice, because the last minutes of this fight I was just "in the zone(?)".

 

For me the first Isshin-Phase (second overall, first after Genichiro) was the hardest. I'm just really bad at reading him here. His second Phase is more doable because the Lance is much easier to counter. If you can make it to the third phase, you MUST counter the thunder attacks (easier said than done I know, but it really isn't that hard and seeing him in shock is pure satisfaction). The third phase is designed to be the easiest, but yeah.... panic and stuff...

 

kudos to you for trying so long, I'm sure you can beat him!!!

 

and maybe one tip: find a big pillow to bury your fist in, it helps 

[Ptirle]

When you get to 3rd phase, pop sweet rice, red lump, red sugar and maybe divine confetti, don't know if confetti do extra damage against him and just spam R1, his posture will fill up fast, same thing for phase 4. Hope this helps!

[Taobaka]

Genichiro and Isshin phase 1 can be easily dealt with by spamming R1, both of them have only 3 different patterns they do after the deflect and they are really easy to read and be punished for that. It's not Dark Souls/Bloodborne games where you have limited stamina, as long as you keep your pressure on these two they wont ever get to do anything else. Make sure to keep hitting Isshin after you do your first deathblow just to do as much damage as possible before he takes out his spear. If you have trouble reading through all his combos in this phase - use firecrackers (long-spark one, not purple fume, it takes too long to explode) (you can also use red sugar the moment Isshin takes our his spear), then just R2->hold R1 till you use all your spirit emblems. Phase 4 is a lightning spam phase, and this game has a quite cheesy mechanic to deal with lightning so you should be fine.

[Silencer0004]

What bothered me the most wasn't the fight itself. I really liked the different phases and the additional attack patterns but the gamedesign flaws, my god.

1. The camera and the broken lock-on system
2. Beating this weak puppet Genishiro wasn't any challenge after the third try but a pure time waste (same goes for the Shura ending)
3. The camera and the broken lock-on system
4. The loading times are out of hell. The whole game takes just a few seconds but (probably) because the game forces you to watch/skip this mediocre cutscenes over and over and over and over again, the loading times after every try take 10x the normal loading times (again, same goes for the Shura ending)
5. The camera and the broken lock-on system

[Akrioz]

4 hours ago, phoenix_shade said:

For example when he stores up wind before slashing the spear AOE. I've seen ppl just jump at him and get off a couple slashes.

You can just interrupt it with Ichimonji or Mortal Draw. (Or fireworks, probably, didn't twst them). But you need to react fast or you will get hit. Also, mid-air combat arts skill is good for that. But if you are bad at quickly responding to such attacks it is better not to try to go overboard and just deflect.

In general, you are safer the closer you are to him. Continue to attack and keep the pressure. You can even prevent him from taking out the spear in second phase. 

2 hours ago, Alaquia said:

in nearly every boss list for sekiro he is number 1 by far, so those "git gud" guys can safely be ignored

Well, it just means that he is hardest in this game, but every boss here feels fair. You always see your own mistakes(or mad camera). I remember fighting sir Alonne in DS2 DLC and that guy didn't feel fair in slightest. Especially after the best boss fight in that game in my opinion - Fume Knight.

 

I dunno, maybe I have good reactions and adaptability, but I never struggled on a boss in Sekiro for more than 10 tries. The record for me is one hour on Ludwig in Bloodborne and similar on sir Alonne in DS2. For me, at times, it feels like some people usually either lack patience to learn and adapt(and keep trying to break a wall by smacking it with a head) or tire themselves out by fighting a boss non-stop, getting more and more nervous and angry as the death pile up. Random guy approached me to kill him a hirata estate Owl via share-play, telling that he stuck for a three days already.  Well, while I managed to defeat it with all the ping and everything, I don't quite understand what the problem was. At least the guy was really happy.

 

Remember to take a break once in a while! Helped me on Orphan of Kos, where I just went to chill for a couple of ours after initial five tries and got him right after the rest.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Akrioz

[phoenix_shade]

6 hours ago, Alaquia said:

 

in nearly every boss list for sekiro he is number 1 by far, so those "git gud" guys can safely be ignored

 

I downed him in NG and NG+1 and both times he was a huge roadblock. I can't even give you some personal advice, because the last minutes of this fight I was just "in the zone(?)".

 

For me the first Isshin-Phase (second overall, first after Genichiro) was the hardest. I'm just really bad at reading him here. His second Phase is more doable because the Lance is much easier to counter. If you can make it to the third phase, you MUST counter the thunder attacks (easier said than done I know, but it really isn't that hard and seeing him in shock is pure satisfaction). The third phase is designed to be the easiest, but yeah.... panic and stuff...

 

kudos to you for trying so long, I'm sure you can beat him!!!

 

and maybe one tip: find a big pillow to bury your fist in, it helps 

Phase one I find to be the easiest. I just block and counter with mortal draw. I also bait the jump attack and mortal draw against Genichiro as well. It also means I don't have spirit left when I get to phase 3, but I don't think it's needed there.

[LionRed10]

I also had some rage moments with Sword Saint Isshin not gonna lie, but i do love this fight. My main complaints with it are the weird hitboxes of his Dragon Flash attacks. i swear it has hit me when in already way off the line of attack. Also that backwards jump that he also slashes you with the spear. I fucking hate the super armor he has on that move and it got me SO MANY TIMES. The way i finally did it was after getting an almost perfect run on Genichirio and Isshin phase 1, i kept on the offensive on his phase 2, controlling the pace of the fight just like the first phase. Managed to get trough the second phase without him ever pulling his spear. Phase 3 was almost a cakewalk because of Lightning Counter, which he spammed against me on that particular fight. Probably took me 4~5 hours in total to finally defeat him.

 

All in all, it's actually nice for the last big boss to actually be the hardest one in a game for once.

Edited April 24, 2019 by LionRed10

[linkdevivo]

genichiro and Isshin phase 1 are aggressive style battles. you go up to the boss and hit R1, be agressive always. But Isshin phases 2 and 3 are Unaggressive. Ypu should definitely be far away from him until he does the 1 or 2 attacks that leave him open. As you've been 11 hours on him you probably are rushing phase 2 to get to phase 3 so he's hitting you a lot and you have no healing gourds in phase 3. So don't be aggressive in these phases. Bait him out, hit him only when he does the attacks that leave him open, and get used to the lightning jump counter attack which makes quick work of him in phase 3. Doing this approach, I found this boss way easier than Great Shinobi Father at Hirata Estate (lost to that fucker for 5 hours)

[reiner-]

Man just get Git Gud. ????

 

Sorry mate couldn't help myself. 

There is no doubt Sword Saint is one of the hardest bosses out there. I feel your frustration because a one point I too thought this game may have beaten me.

Watching "How to beat Sword Saint" videos on YouTube can make things even worse when you see these gamers make this boss their bitch by beating him with no Gourd upgrades and taking no damage. Like seriously what the fuck!?!?!

I try that and get destroyed in seconds. 

 

If you have reached this point in the game then you are most certainly skillful enough to beat this arsehole. I know you said baiting the leap has not been working for you but trust me this tactic does work. It's just getting the timing right but once you do Isshin is fucked.

Time it correctly, run in, hit once and back off. Gamers call it cheesing but in the real world it's called hit and run or guerrilla tactics.

That's how battles are won against stronger opponents. 

The Spartans didn't exactly "cheese" the battle at Thermopylae or the Vietcong defeat the US by "cheesing".

 

Like others have said above, taking a break every now and then helps. I left it for 3 days before trying it again.

 

Good luck, you can do it.

[abhinandhan22]

13 hours ago, phoenix_shade said:

So I just wanted to write down my thoughts in the community because I haven't rage quit this hard in decades and it's not healthy to punch things.

 

Sword Saint Isshin. 

 

I've spent about 11 hours now trying to beat this thing. It's single handedly the hardest end boss I've ever faced in my lifetime.

 

Yeah I know, lots of you guys think it's easy and I should "Git Gud" but have a heart here.

 

The thing is, I've watched all the videos and I've read all the websites and they are simply no help to me at all. I have come to the conclusion that the game is literally too fast for me and I can't survive the up close and personal approaches.  I've died probably close to 100 times already. I will grudgingly admit that I'm slowly beginning to pick up the patterns and variations in the combos and when to expect the Mikiri Counter, but man is this hard to keep the will to keep going. 

 

The toughest part for me is that it takes me a good 5 minutes or so just to get to phase 3, and then its a matter of how much can I practice this before getting screwed by the game.

 

How do I get screwed?

 

Getting stuck on rocks.

Falling off the cliff.

Getting cornered against the mountainside.

The target lock disengaging followed by me frantically trying to get enough distance to turn the camera and lock back on.. but oh wait, I get hit again.

And the most frustrating one of all: Pressing L1 and holding to block, and EVERY HIT comes through anyway. Happened more times that I can count.

 

I've tried the bait and slash leap cheese, but it takes 20 hits or so to advance the phase and half the time I just get slashed anyway.

 

I've now been trying to just deflect and parry while waiting on the mikiri counters, which allows me to get in one hit before jumping backwards to safety. I figure I get the boss to half health and i should be able to knock him out with the counters easily. I haven't been able to get him down to half yet.

 

I recognize there are some opportunities to land an extra hit here or there, but I am not good enough yet to register these moments with my brain until it's too late. For example when he stores up wind before slashing the spear AOE. I've seen ppl just jump at him and get off a couple slashes. But what happens when I get the chance? I freak out and always jump backwards. *sigh*

 

I've tried sidestepping the spear leap as suggested in other places and get hit every time I try to dodge anyway. I've tried deflecting the spear jump and sometimes that gets me a hit, but half the time I get hit trying to jump back afterwards.

 

I have seen phase 4 one time so far, and I freaked out and all the things I mentioned earlier all happened and eventually I died falling off the cliff.

 

It wouldn't have mattered anyway because I'm too beat up from phase 3 and have no health left.

 

This is intended as a form of therapy for me to avoid smashing my ps4 and throwing it at my tv.

 

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

 

Please share your rage with me.

 

( I am going to say I like the game and I'm not going to say bad design or anything, but the Block no block thing... wow)

 

 

 

I was struggling with phase 3 and 4 but ended up beating him immediately after using tyrannicon's umbrella strat for phase 3 and 4. Its extremely easy to pull off so I suggest you try that method

[solomonluthor]

just finished this fight after 12 hours today. not my favorite boss to be honest - a bit of a cheater, and a complete idiot. my own advice - don't try any of the cheese strategies - I wastedl iike 5 hours in the wrong direction all together. How I finally beat it was - with no sugars, no addons, just pure and simple deflect, deflect , deflect, hit, mikiri counter - but always on the pressure. do not jump except for the unblockable sweep attacks - you can deflect everything. If your posture breaks, just block again - rather than rolling away. Do not try to play the health game in my opinion, unless you are a person of great patience - for me the posture game works much better with him. When he does the wind up attacks. Just jump on his head, it will keep you safe and you can get some hits in. Thats the only two moves you jump for . Of course - the mikiri is the mikiri - with the spear phases always deflect the gunshots, he will follow up with the mikiri, you hit his posture real bad - don' tget greedy and get too many hits in  - this is not a health battle in my opinion. For the final phase be ready to do the lightning reversal that will be your best friend. Also tip - after dying to him in his last phase at 5% health almost 10 times- remember to block as soon as you heal, he is a nasty animal and will always do a followup attack, and one that can be deflected. By the end, my final run I basically did the first three phases almost perfect, coz I knew the patterns by heart. I dont know tho - there was really not much satisfaction - perhaps as much as I was hoping - I actually felt way better when I defeated owl father, the demon of hatred, and the guardian ape - now the guardian ape, that was exciting - this was just a like an examination, where even two wrong answers means a fail. Just my two cents. 

 

Final edit - try not to dodge anything except the double ichimonji - if you can side step dodge that - you can hit him wiht your own double ichi monji if you have one - or just two hits if you don't to get some really good posture damage. When he sheathes his sword in phase one run away from him - thats perhap s the only attack thats worth running away from him. If you keep a distance from him, he keeps recovering posture, and this asshole then needs to be killed the old fashioned way - through health. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by solomonluthor

[phoenix_shade]

The fight... it is over... oh wait.. you mean you have to do this again???????????

 

I recorded my victory because I never wanted to forget this moment.

 

Best teabag yet.  

 

Thanks everybody.  I spent about 12 hours total.

 

Stage 1: Bait jump use Mortal Draw

Stage 2: Parry everything and use Mortal Draw

Stage 3: Bait jump attack take him down to half then work mikiri counter

Stage 4: Chicken out and bait jump attack until victory.

 

I got nervous and messed up and wasted some health (oops)

But I guess I just got used to running a specific route around those two specific rocks and the rest kind of fell into place.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by phoenix_shade

[LionRed10]

Congratulations

[carrot0404]

I spent 3 hours on this fight to finally beat him, but then my PS4 conveniently decided to CRASH right as soon as the "shinobi execution" popped up as I tried to save a clip of the successful attempt

I even got the trophy for beating him, but I had to redo the entire fight. ( only proof I have of this whole ordeal is the time gap between the time of the sword saint isshin trophy and the purification trophy)

 

Of all the time the game could crash, it had to happen there. the LITERAL worst possible time. The game never crashed before or after that, and I even considered raging about it here, but decided not to.

 

I also was not aware I could back up my save AFTER killing him, so in total, I had to fight this jabroni 4 times, 2 in NG+. after the third, i basically knew the fight inside and out, so i "got gud" and learned how to kill him efficiently

Edited April 30, 2019 by carrot0404

[Maverick6146]

Just wanted to share a few things less mentioned but helped me during the Isshin fight. It is by no means for expert but hopefully can help a few struggling players.

 

1. Change key mapping and use Triangle to block. someone mentioned that T is faster than L1. I can't confirm it but it did help me during Jinsuke fight. Using L1 I couldn't even pull one parry (bad reflex, I knew) but after switching I can parry 1 of 3 tries. Of course that makes some skills harder to perform (it will be T+R1) so be warned.

2. Bring everything and backup the save file. If you have planned the ending routes this would be the only time you fight him. I used all my rice during the fight.

3. Bring the umbrella. I had a hard time recognizing his charging attack. And somehow I always got hit by his vertical slash wave (no idea why). So when Isshin is charging I would just use umbrella to block. If that's the two vertical slash wave I can still dodge the second one and close in for an attack.

4. Find your own pattern. if you are like me, who can NOT perfect parry more than half of time, you may want to find some pattern that is easier for you. What I found is that in the 1st phase, if you attack him once, he will retaliate twice, both are almost guaranteed to be parried perfectly.

5. Mikiri counters. Unfortunately I didn't find a way around that. And where the most posture damage comes from.

 

What frustrate me the most of this fight is that: 1/3 of time, I was killed by Genchiro, for whatever fucking reason.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Maverick6146

[zeit86geist]

gonna tackle this fight probably the next days. but i assume that at this point it doesnt matter how many times you die, since hes the last boss and you can spread dragonrot all over the place without consequences because you will tackle ng+

you keep your hard skill points, spend your money on items.

die, learn, repeat. thats the way i'll tackle it

[Sofa King]

Finally took this maniac out the other day. Not gonna lie, it was a cheesy win but I'll take it.

The umbrella strategy for the last 2 phases worked like a charm.

[sunashigure1]

On 26.04.2019 at 7:18 AM, phoenix_shade said:

The fight... it is over... oh wait.. you mean you have to do this again???????????

 

I recorded my victory because I never wanted to forget this moment.

 

Best teabag yet.  

 

Thanks everybody.  I spent about 12 hours total.

 

Stage 1: Bait jump use Mortal Draw

Stage 2: Parry everything and use Mortal Draw

Stage 3: Bait jump attack take him down to half then work mikiri counter

Stage 4: Chicken out and bait jump attack until victory.

 

I got nervous and messed up and wasted some health (oops)

But I guess I just got used to running a specific route around those two specific rocks and the rest kind of fell into place.

 

 

Congrats!

 

On a side note, baiting overhead jump attack isn't "chickening out" ^-^

[Copanele]

Mind if I can join the therapy?  

The most annoying aspect of this fight is the fact that I have to face stupid Genichiro AGAIN ... like dude you are getting on my nerves! get lost already. Genichiro is just a consumable burner before the actual fight and I find this thing to be cheap.

This being said, KENSEI ISSHIN!

I tried to fight him the old face off deflect mode only to be turned into shish kebab in mere seconds. There is NO WAY you can face off this fucker without either being a piano player (do the most complex rhythm game ever to match his swordsmanship) or I don't know dedicate your whole life to videogames. Honestly I felt like playing Guitar Hero against this guy.

Soooooo I adopted the Sonic tactic that works against 90% of the bosses... GOTTA GO FAST! Just circle the area, wait for him to let himself opened. What I used (if it will help ) : 

Stage 1 - yeah mortal blade, Genichiro ,deflect, goomba stomp / mikiri ,nobody cares about this guy anymore . I sure as hell didn't.

Stage 2 - Time to pull the NFS Most Wanted laps around the area ! Best moments to attack : when Isshin does the 3 lame slashes, the Ashina Cross, the Double Ichimonji ( why the hell is he even using that ) and the Getsuga Tensho wind wave attack.

Stage 3 - He has 2 attacks : the one when he jumps in the air and slams with his spear then follows up with a dash and 2 slashes , best time to whack him. Also he does a weird combo that follows up with a thrust, perfect for mikiri. Of course, always be on the run in case he pulls the tommy gun.

Stage 4 - same as above + LIGHTNING COUNTER HIS ASS. Stage 4 for some reason is way easier than the other stages.

I have to admit , like this the fight lasts a LONG time (took me 20 minutes) buuuut like that I killed him my 5th or 6th try. Honestly the power of unlimited sprinting is way too OP in this game  

Also mega congrats for everyone who managed to overpower this hurdle and extra mega congrats for those who did all the endings without USB backup.

P.S. I found Isshin Ashina from the Shura ending to be harder weirdly enough just because the area is more cramped. This grandpa is really OP just sayin.

[Akrioz]

56 minutes ago, Copanele said:

There is NO WAY you can face off this fucker without either being a piano player (do the most complex rhythm game ever to match his swordsmanship)

I'm terrible at rhythm games and still just fought him normally. Here is a video. Horrible first phase, yeah. I got the hang of it only on Shura ending. Still, I only wasted a 10 or so tries(died 7 times on first phase, 2 on second and 1 on third). Spear phase has a better timing on Isshin's combos in my opinion. And I kinda panicked at all of his iai-draw attacks.

[Copanele]

7 minutes ago, Akrioz said:

I'm terrible at rhythm games and still just fought him normally. Here is a video. Horrible first phase, yeah. I got the hang of it only on Shura ending. Still, I only wasted a 10 or so tries(died 7 times on first phase, 2 on second and 1 on third). Spear phase has a better timing on Isshin's combos in my opinion. And I kinda panicked at all of his iai-draw attacks.

Huh odd, i tried exactly that and pulled the mikiri counters but he still sliced through my guard... I should definetly check my L1 button and see if it's functioning properly  

Nice video , I should definetly retry that strategy (although idk how much it will help in NG+2 ) 

[Akrioz]

I actually envy the patience of the people, who can just run around the boss for 20 minutes looking for one exact guaranteed opening. For me it's easier to go in guns blazing and either finish the fight in 5 minutes or die and try again.

Also, I would suggest as an advice to capture the video of your own semi-successful tries and figure out what are you doing wrong. I like to do that myself or watch some no-damage, speedrun videos/streams on youtube. It can help to familiarize yourself with boss patterns while chilling.

[Maverick6146]

1 hour ago, Akrioz said:

I actually envy the patience of the people, who can just run around the boss for 20 minutes looking for one exact guaranteed opening. For me it's easier to go in guns blazing and either finish the fight in 5 minutes or die and try again.

Also, I would suggest as an advice to capture the video of your own semi-successful tries and figure out what are you doing wrong. I like to do that myself or watch some no-damage, speedrun videos/streams on youtube. It can help to familiarize yourself with boss patterns while chilling.

I would say that finding each one's own play style is important in tackling this game. For people like me, who is struggling to execute parries consistently, going over aggressive is almost suicidal. that's why I almost never watch those no-damage videos because I don't think those techniques would help ME. Then you want to somehow pass the initial stages and practice on the later ones.

 

I am thankful that the game is good enough to provide quite a broad ways of fighting. 

 

I felt the Shura ending is easier for me. I have a very hard time reading the attack distance of Isshin's spear. And sometimes he is running like a madman. 

 

Of course, w/ 1.04 patch, you can Dragonflash Isshin's sorry ass to death during Shura fight.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Maverick6146

[Orenn16]

Hey, keep at it! Never give up! What did it for me is the loaded umbrella with force projection skill. Makes the last two phases almost impossible to lose on.

 

You can watch the whole thing or fast forward to the last few phases to see what I’m talking about. But this stray finally did it for me. Beat him first try after hours of frustration before.