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1 minute ago, skidmarkgn said:

 

Didn't know it was only an hour, that certainly will slow down my optimism.  I guess it's time to hope it's successful enough to become another 2 hour show to run alongside dynamite instead of under it.

 

Yeah I initally thought it was 2 hours, but later learned it wasn't which is a shame. Lets hope it does well indeed!

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12 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

Now that the Murphy speculation is full throttle, along with Punk on Friday speculation, Bryan Danielson speculation, and Malakai Black being an addition to an ever-bloating roster I wonder how they'll structure the Dynamite/Rampage dynamic.  I personally don't want to see new championships introduced or a straight up "roster split", if anything I'd dig it if they just treat the TNT title the top title of Rampage.  The AEW champ could still show up periodically to feud on both shows (and vice versa) and workers could be showcased primarily on one show or the other but crossover is, IMO, an essential for trying to grow an audience for both shows.

 

There is solid seeming speculation that the "Trios" title they want to have will make use of the extra time that Rampage will bring in. Other (deluded) speculation is that Rampage will give more focus to the women which I think is nonsense as they'll get the mandated 1 woman's match (so AEW marks don't wake up to the fact that Khan doesn't care about women's wrestling) and nothing more. I'll be happy to be wrong, but I rarely am when it comes to AEW. 

 

As for how to structure this stuff. I'm unsure. What you mentioned of having champions on the show too is, well, WWE pain speaking I guess but WWE used to do that as you show know and it was dreadful. To start with Smackdown became seen as unimportant and recaps were heavy, on both shows, as if something, somehow, important happened on Smackdown, then it had to replayed on RAW. Meanwhile Smackdown had recap after recap of what happened on RAW. I suppose AEW could just not recap anything, which is fine for Rampage if we run under the assumption that if you're watching Rampage then you're watching Rampage, but it creates problems in the other direction.

 

Another way to do it would be to, and this likely will be what they do for numerous vain reasons (we care about tag team wrestling, even though we have no rules in them), is to make the show a ghetto of sorts where they shove say the Trios division on there and have that largely localised to Rampage. Women are also an option but as Khan can't actually shift the 1 woman's match Dynamite gets as that would leave it at 0, he can only shift the promos (often 1) that women get too. 

 

11 hours ago, Glorious Fury said:

Gotta agree, never been a fan of roster spilts myself or the two 'world' champions like WWE has currently. Isn't Rampage only 1 hour though? Dynamite will be the flagship show, but hopefully they can do something interesting with it, and hopefully it doesn't become another Thunder or Heat. 

 

I also have an issue with it. If WWE actually committed to not shuffling guys around so often and had each guy on a show 5 years minimum then... it becomes more reasonable. Problem is they don't with only some people, Byran, Styles, Carmella, small group of others, sticking to it. 

 

With Smackdown being 2 hours the answer to the issue of only having 1 world champion (show without will be seen as lesser) would be to elevate something to the same status. You could like the first brand split make the woman's title exclusive to Smackdown and have them dominate the show. The issue there is if even younger allegedly progressive Tony Khan thinks that women aren't draws and just side shows... Vince certainly ain't going to trust them with a show. As such raising the WORLD Tag team titles to that status would be the answer... but Vince hates Tag team wrestling so not happening obviously. If you actually look at what tag teams WWE has, and what teams could be easily made such as for example Keith Lee & Dominik Dijakovic which would be money... they could have a very strong and impressive tag division if they cared to actually use it. 

 

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Omega will be defending the AAA title against Andrade. Not only a heel vs heel match between AEW wrestlers, but one set in another promotion. It is nice of AEW to spread these heel vs heel matches throughout other promotions.

 

So if Andrade loses then one of your hot new prospects has already been beat, while in the story he is in which has him trying to convince Penta and Fenix to join him. Penta and Fenix who will be on the same show by the way so they'll be there to see him lose. Alternatively, Andrade wins and now Omega has a big loss to his name meaning beating him becomes less impressive. I have seen talk that a possible idea is that Kenny loses all his titles bar the AEW one before All Out and then, desperate to keep his AEW title, cheats hard to retain it and is then scared of Hangman for Full Gear (damn, stretching that out 4 months). Problem. Hangman we have been told is quite frankly a loser, who hangs out with other bigger losers. Cool. Rather than beat an Omega who hasn't been beaten in a good while and has been kept strong while Hangman is at his most over... it gets dragged out for 4 months and he beats an Omega that has been pinned several times by guys who in AEW would rank as midcarders?

 

Well... I ain't the booker of the year so I suppose it is all beyond me.

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11 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

With Smackdown being 2 hours the answer to the issue of only having 1 world champion (show without will be seen as lesser) would be to elevate something to the same status. You could like the first brand split make the woman's title exclusive to Smackdown and have them dominate the show. The issue there is if even younger allegedly progressive Tony Khan thinks that women aren't draws and just side shows... Vince certainly ain't going to trust them with a show. As such raising the WORLD Tag team titles to that status would be the answer... but Vince hates Tag team wrestling so not happening obviously. If you actually look at what tag teams WWE has, and what teams could be easily made such as for example Keith Lee & Dominik Dijakovic which would be money... they could have a very strong and impressive tag division if they cared to actually use it. 

 

Hopefully, they might be able to delegate some of the predictible filler matches we get often to Rampage, and make some more time for the women on Dynamite. With the success of Becky Lynch and others over time becoming very viable draws, Khan really should make it a more prominent part of the show on a consistent basis rather than an afterthought. 

 

Very true, Tag Team wrestling hasn't really been put at the level it deserves for quite some time. Putting together singles guys can really work sometimes, and if they are big like Dijakovic/Lee it can possibilty work as it's a great imposing visual. One of my favorite tag teams are the Acolytes who had a similar occurance of two talents without a clear path and were big powerhouses.

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10 hours ago, Glorious Fury said:

Hopefully, they might be able to delegate some of the predictible filler matches we get often to Rampage, and make some more time for the women on Dynamite. With the success of Becky Lynch and others over time becoming very viable draws, Khan really should make it a more prominent part of the show on a consistent basis rather than an afterthought. 

 

Very true, Tag Team wrestling hasn't really been put at the level it deserves for quite some time. Putting together singles guys can really work sometimes, and if they are big like Dijakovic/Lee it can possibilty work as it's a great imposing visual. One of my favorite tag teams are the Acolytes who had a similar occurance of two talents without a clear path and were big powerhouses.

 

Have you heard the conspiracy theory regarding the 1 match thing for the women? The network apparently is why Tony Khan only books 1 woman's match on Dynamite. Makes sense. Baker and Rosa can have a bloody match with weapons but that is fine as it was 1 match. 2 matches on 1 show? Too far, the network will not stand for this outrage. As far as I know this is all stems from Omega making that tweet of "If you want to see more women's wrestling then let everybody know" which fans take as the network being the blocker even though it makes more sense for it being Khan. 

 

A side effect of Vince not caring is it means that the fans don't either and they see little value in tag team wrestling, which is actually better now than it used to be. I remember during the hellscape that was 2014 era WWE they had tag teams getting beat in handicap matches, they had Orton & Batista when offered a tag title shot state that they didn't care about the tag titles. As for putting together singles guys... honestly? The bad rep that gets is undeserved and there should actually be more such teams, not less. Roman Reigns & Seth Rollings for example should be a team that wrestles now and then and if WWE runs a tournament they should want in. The best way to make people care is to show that even top guys want these titles. They're not always gunning for them yes, because they're busy with chasing other titles, but if an opportunity comes up then they want in. 

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Good times are flowing. I'm posting the highlight of this thread, a report of what happened on Dynamite. 

 

As time has gone on the theory that the Young Bucks go on first purposely so they can have the crowd at it's most hungry, do every move under the sun first, and then get out is long since confirmed to me. The corpse referee naturally featured and he revolts me. Enforces nothing while looking straight at rule breakers and if he actually tries to "miss" something he constantly miss times his spot anyway so even if you blamed rules not being enforced on Tony Khan, the corpse is still blatantly an incompetent. AEW could cover this up, would still be outrageous but at least an attempt would be made, by having him be a corrupt referee which as I've mentioned previously I've heard has actually been a thing on the youtube comedy show the Young Bucks have. However, it is not said on Dynamite itself... I imagine because doing so would raise the question of why then would Tony Khan allow such a referee to continue working. Supposed we'll have to wait for Tony Khan to become more of an air heel authority figure before they finally decide to justify the corpse.

 

Christian Cage was confirmed for All Out (hilarious) but... randomly gets a shot at the Impact title before it? AEW marks are convinced this means that the Christian match at All Out ain't happening as some angle will happen which will put Christian out of it... or... Kenny screws him via interference/cheating and so Christian gets to have a second match at the PPV? Who knows how the mind of the booker of the year operates. Either way I scorn the booking involved but getting Christian out of the All Out match is obviously the best of the bad bunch here. Him actually having that match would mean him getting booed into oblivion.

 

Speaking of booed into oblivion. Why do this to Red Velvet? She came out, attacked Britt to massive boos and when the match happens will no doubt get booed throughout. Red Velvet. Perhaps the woman on the roster who could best fit into the plucky underdog babyface. Why? Especially when you remember what proceeded this batch of incompetence. Baker had a heel vs heel match with Nyla Rose... why didn't they have that match here instead where Nyla being booed into oblivion wouldn't have been a problem due to her being a heel? Supreme incompetence. AEW does constant heel vs heel matches but when a moment perfect for a heel vs heel match shows up... a heel vs face match is booked where the face is going to get booed. Can't make this up. 

 

Nyla Rose. The Native Beast. "The woman that no woman can stop" as she once put herself. HAHAHA. Attacks Statlander at ringside in the match Statlander was ringside for. Does a prematch attack on Statlander on top of that. Gets pinned 1-2-3 by Statlander anyway. L.O.S.E.R. I'm going to be laughing a lot during her future matches with the likes of Riho and other undersized Japanese women. Just no credibility whatsoever. 

 

Dark Order had a match to let us know that yes, they are very much a pack of losers. Imagine losing to the "Good Brothers". Speaking of, why did Dark Order randomly get a title match at TNA's tag titles after losing a match that stopped them challenging for AEW's? Well, who cares, point is them boys are losers. 

 

Big Show getting a match? Okay. Could maybe have reached it in a better way but whatever. It is the least of the shows problems. 

 

So it turns out that it wasn't a special guest referee match like a lot of AEW marks took it as, but as I thought which was a match with MJF at ringside. We also learned that MJF is bizarrely the fifth labour which... doesn't make sense as the idea is that Jericho has to beat 5 labours to face MJF... but then MJF is the fifth labour... unless Jericho is having a match with MJF, with a stipulation that goes against him, to earn a straight up singles match against MJF... anyway, what a match eh? Wardlow had quite the difficulty with Jericho. Couldn't lift and ram his head against the post right. Couldn't just straight up ram him on ground level I think it was either. Then on one of the non-picture in picture powerbombs he struggled to actually hit a power bomb on Jericho. Is Jericho in fact 300lbs now? Wardlow had some real difficulty with him. Though in the picture in picture where Wardlow hit a million power bombs they seemed to be executed fine. Jericho then wins off a distraction so Wardlow takes another loss for no reason. Ah yes, can't DQ. MJF announces that his match with Jericho will have the same stipulation as his against Moxley (which he lost) where Jericho can't use his finisher. Oh, and he can't have his music played. Though the Labours themselves are just the Cody feud too... ummm, anyway, so Wargames > Stadium nonsense > match with the biggest loser in a stable > deathmatch with a garbage idiot> match with aged luchador > match with bodyguard > I've taken away your music CHRIS. This all flows naturally and logically. Of course I'm sure they'll get the fans to sing the song as Jericho enters, really massage his vanity though obviously a very good spot for a babyface to have. May need to use some plants but I'm sure they've well trained people enough at this point.

Edited by Rozalia1
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Big night tonight, extremely excited to see what the Chicago Pittsburg crowd can bring to the new show, especially if...

 

Edit:  Man, first I didn't know Rampage was an hour long, now I mixed up the location, that show's throwing me for loop after loop.  Anyways, I'm really not surprised, or disappointed that *SPOILER FOR WEST COAST* Christian went over tonight.  It makes sense in that his name's synonymous with Impact wrestling and he'll help bring eyeballs to it.  If there's truly a working relationship with both companies he's a guy who can only bring good things while holding the strap.  Kenny will go over for the AEW title and Hangman can be phased back in for his big win.   *END SPOILER*

 

Didn't get to watch the whole show on an East coast feed so now it's time to wait 2 hours to see the 2nd half. ?

Edited by skidmarkgn
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I have no issues with this but a lot of people rag on WWE for 3 man booths... AEW doing 4 man booths. Ummm, suddenly it doesn't matter? Issue has always been quality rather than numbers (with respect, Vince hurts them badly). Chris Jericho continuing his trend of just blurting out WWE when they're supposed to only allude to them, not outright mention their name. Additionally, how many times do announcers have to mention that AEW is the most prestigious title Omega has, unlike those other toy championship. Does TNA/AAA do this on their shows? 

 

Don Callis has his referee distraction skill at S rank I see. What a lengthy distraction that backfired into Christian beating Omega...  Christian... so much for Hangman getting the rub of beating a unpinned since Full Gear 2019 (I've heard) Omega. Great for Christian though who is a real talent yes. To be clear, nothing against Christian himself. Christian is a real talent who tends to be not seen as good as he is by many people because he obviously gets instantly compared to Edge who he spent so long next to. 

 

I don't care for the undersized loser fake luchador that has been on Dark and thus is basically a random guy for me. I wasn't worried that Miro was going to lose, having a massive jobber squash Miro would be something even the booker of the year wouldn't book.

 

As expected Red Velvet is booed. Stupid. I'd normally not complain on this to be clear, if AEW hasn't shown they are very happy doing heel vs heel matches and literally had a perfect one as Baker's previous match. Then, after Baker wins, she does a post match attack to cheers. The last visual is everyone happy that the babyface got curb stomped on the title by the heel. Disgraceful. I'd personally mark Red Velvet done as a face and make her Jade's lackey. What loser would continue being a face after all that? As the booker of the year likes his indy gimmicks, here is a free one for him. Have Red Velvet's heel gimmick as a lackey be that she feeds other heels cakes and in her matches uses a brown mist dubbed "cake mix". 

 

16 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

Big night tonight, extremely excited to see what the Chicago Pittsburg crowd can bring to the new show, especially if...

 

Edit:  Man, first I didn't know Rampage was an hour long, now I mixed up the location, that show's throwing me for loop after loop.  Anyways, I'm really not surprised, or disappointed that *SPOILER FOR WEST COAST* Christian went over tonight.  It makes sense in that his name's synonymous with Impact wrestling and he'll help bring eyeballs to it.  If there's truly a working relationship with both companies he's a guy who can only bring good things while holding the strap.  Kenny will go over for the AEW title and Hangman can be phased back in for his big win.   *END SPOILER*

 

Didn't get to watch the whole show on an East coast feed so now it's time to wait 2 hours to see the 2nd half. 1f623.png

 

You forget that Omega is defending the AAA title against Andrade in a heel vs heel match. Omega is likely getting pinned by Christian, Andrade, and who knows who else before Full Gear as we have all but confirmation that Hangman is out as he apparently has gotten time off. Speaking of Full Gear... with 2 massive guys coming in and who knows who else... I think the odds are more stacked towards Hangman NOT getting the title at Full Gear also. 

 

1 hour and next week is the one you're looking forward to yes. I watched this and intend to watch next week but watching beyond that... maybe 1 more when the show actually goes to normal as this week and next are not normal booking for the show.

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On 8/14/2021 at 10:45 AM, Rozalia1 said:

I have no issues with this but a lot of people rag on WWE for 3 man booths... AEW doing 4 man booths. Ummm, suddenly it doesn't matter?

Just because people give WWE shit for doing things doesn't mean AEW deserves it as well, people really need to get out of this comparison mindset. People really need to understand that we give WWE shit for things they do, because they earned it....don't know why anyone still think WWE gets undeserved criticism. They do something, then they usually screw it up...hence the shit flying their direction. AEW isn't WWE, you have to give them a chance to prove that what they're trying to do may actually work...because frankly, so far, it does. 

 

As for the 4 man booth, it was the first show, so I need more time with it to see where it goes. I personally thought Mark Henry was god awful on commentary, whereas I love how extra Chris Jericho is all the time. I feel like they can get rid of Henry and just let him do the interviewing. Jericho, Excalibur and Taz would be a fine team. 

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So much for the fan justification on Omega losing the TNA title to Christian being that he was going to lose the AAA one too so he'd become desperate to hold to the AEW title and all that. Omega beat Andrade in the match before the main event was it? interesting. Main event was a Psycho Clown fellow who got a 4 man beatdown, had the person in his corner betray him, weapons broken on him, and still overcame the odds. So AAA has a stable of 3 clowns, another 4th clown who is unrelated, and a 5th guy who isn't a clown but dresses like a clownish goof... interesting. Apparently people familiar with the product there think the guy who'll take the title from Omega is another guy though that does all manner of flips and stuff... likely wise for AEW. Don't see how Omega against this Psycho Clown fellow isn't just a complete squash if he is booked this strong.

 

57 minutes ago, Viper said:

Just because people give WWE shit for doing things doesn't mean AEW deserves it as well, people really need to get out of this comparison mindset. People really need to understand that we give WWE shit for things they do, because they earned it....don't know why anyone still think WWE gets undeserved criticism. They do something, then they usually screw it up...hence the shit flying their direction. AEW isn't WWE, you have to give them a chance to prove that what they're trying to do may actually work...because frankly, so far, it does. 

 

As for the 4 man booth, it was the first show, so I need more time with it to see where it goes. I personally thought Mark Henry was god awful on commentary, whereas I love how extra Chris Jericho is all the time. I feel like they can get rid of Henry and just let him do the interviewing. Jericho, Excalibur and Taz would be a fine team. 

 

How long does that excuse hold? They've had 2 years and bad refereeing is still heavily prominent. They've had 2 years and women still only get 1 match a show, usually in the "death"/"Pissbreak" slot. They've had 2 years and they still have the problem of repeating the same type of angles on shows. They've had 2 years and the show is still infested by heel vs heel matches. They've had 2 years and there still is an overabundance of post match beatdowns. They've had 2 years and most their talent are still badly trained goofs who can't throw a good punch. They've had 2 years and booking is still all over the place. They've had 2 years and many talents either go missing entirely for ages or they only promo and don't have matches, while Best Friends/insert other goofs can have regular matches if they're not injured. They've had 2 years and rather then act like a serious wrestling company have gone backwards and even promoted that disgrace NICK GAGE.

 

How long you going to give them? 5 years? 10? 20? All of eternity because WWE exists? Please do answer. 

 

As for your commentary comment. Jericho was so loud shouting into the mic that I felt it was too much at times and I'm not someone sensitive to that stuff. Henry was softer in how he spoke and with 3 other guys at the commentary had problems getting words in. He'll improve heavily the moment he is in a booth that actually allows him time I'm sure.  

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18 minutes ago, Rozalia1 said:

How long does that excuse hold? They've had 2 years and bad refereeing is still heavily prominent. They've had 2 years and women still only get 1 match a show, usually in the "death"/"Pissbreak" slot. They've had 2 years and they still have the problem of repeating the same type of angles on shows. They've had 2 years and the show is still infested by heel vs heel matches. They've had 2 years and there still is an overabundance of post match beatdowns. They've had 2 years and most their talent are still badly trained goofs who can't throw a good punch. They've had 2 years and booking is still all over the place. They've had 2 years and many talents either go missing entirely for ages or they only promo and don't have matches, while Best Friends/insert other goofs can have regular matches if they're not injured. They've had 2 years and rather then act like a serious wrestling company have gone backwards and even promoted that disgrace NICK GAGE.

I guess I can't really answer this because apparently we have very different opinions on AEW as a whole and what you think AEW is doing "wrong". Everything you mentioned, AEW makes it work in my opinion. We've been conditioned for too long to think the way WWE does something is the way wrestling is supposed to be because we had 20 years of that being all we really knew, so I made sure to get out of that mindset as quickly as I could when this company came around, and I try to enjoy the way AEW does things and more often than not I do. Frankly, AEW has been 2 years of me being damn proud to be a wrestling fan again (although I was proud with NXT too, but WWE never took that seriously enough)...I actually look forward to watching the product every week. They aren't perfect by any means, but I just flat out don't have the same issues you do here, and frankly feel the opposite about most of it. 

 

Edited by Viper
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54 minutes ago, Viper said:

I guess I can't really answer this because apparently we have very different opinions on AEW as a whole and what you think AEW is doing "wrong". Everything you mentioned, AEW makes it work in my opinion. We've been conditioned for too long to think the way WWE does something is the way wrestling is supposed to be because we had 20 years of that being all we really knew, so I made sure to get out of that mindset as quickly as I could when this company came around, and I try to enjoy the way AEW does things and more often than not I do. Frankly, AEW has been 2 years of me being damn proud to be a wrestling fan again (although I was proud with NXT too, but WWE never took that seriously enough)...I actually look forward to watching the product every week. They aren't perfect by any means, but I just flat out don't have the same issues you do here, and frankly feel the opposite about most of it. 

 

Come now. You are saying that WWE invented/pushed on people fundamentals of wrestling? I will address some of these briefly, yes briefly as I could go on very long indeed, because it ain't worth it to go into depth on how wrong what you've said is.

 

Referees - naturally they are supposed to miss things to allow for heal heat, certain finishes, that sort of thing. To do this correctly requires the referee to be competent in how he acts while distracted but also for the wrestlers to be competent and act with urgency so things are quickly done out of sight of the referee. If the referee is distracted for an eternity, for an example of this look to Omega vs Christian where the refereeing was buried by having the referee distracted for an unreasonably long period because Omega/Christian had to do a spot that took forever.

However, this is not the worst part of AEW refereeing oh no. Often seen extensively with the corpse referee (Knox) but not limited to him, referees will outright look at rule breaking and do nothing. I've remarked many such case on here. We've had heel wrestlers use weapons on faces and get no DQ and not even having the weapon taken them. We've had during tag team matches teams all getting in the ring and doing double/triple teams to nothing from referees, heck, the recent 5 vs 5 match they did had the Elite near the start of the match just all 5 one after another with no tags just get in the ring to hit a Dark Order guy while the corpse looks at them and does nothing. Some times I've even counted the time guys are in the ring attacking others, during a Lucha brothers match for example I counted either near or over a minute of ring time from a guy not the legal guy. Note that AEW at the start stressed that guys had a 10 count to double team and not the usual 5 count. You heard of it lately? No, because even the 10 count has been made a mockery of. Of course it ain't just in the ring this occurs. As AEW's wrestlers are by and large Indy minded and badly trained they usually can't work around the 10 count outside to where AEW referees have to often stop their counts as guys are out there forever. 

 

Why is this all important? Because Professional Wrestling is not some comedy goof show where you have idiots doing tricks in the ring. It is supposed to simulate a contest. A contest is not being simulated if the referee is getting buried like they do on AEW. It is just garbage. 

 

Not throwing a proper punch - I'm incredulous at the notion that WWE apparently foisted on us wrestlers actually being trained and able to do basics correctly. A good punch/strike is a basic that is one of the most important aspects of wrestling. They happen often all throughout the show and are easier to see through than "moves". If your punches are bad then it doesn't matter what else you do, it all looks phoney. Professional Wrestling I will say again, is supposed to be a simulated contest. Phoney punches instantly expose it. 

 

Heel vs Heel matches - Face vs Heel is the standard in professional wrestling, good vs evil. Some Indy minded people hate this and think it is wrong yes, but there is a reason it has been a thing since Professional Wrestling began and why it exists in everything else. Heel vs Heel matches breaks that and should be avoided unless there is a good reason to have it. For example, AEW ran Rampage in a city where their heel woman's champion was going to be wildly cheered. Okay. This is a reasonable spot to run a heel vs heel match where the smaller heel Baker plays the face against the bigger and meaner Nyla Rose. Instead AEW runs that match before Rampage and then sticks Red Velvet, a face, to be booed into oblivion by the crowd. 

 

Why is this all important? Because Professional Wrestling is actually about faces overcoming the heels at the end of the day. Not heels facing other heels, or heels dominating. You talk of WWE foisting stuff on people and how AEW is different but actually no, they aren't. WWE, an evil heel empire that beats people down with heels dominating constantly (imagine if Cena hadn't been around? Nightmare) and it ain't any different in AEW at the end of the day with them having around gone through two long periods of heel groups dominating, with one still ongoing. Faces are the protagonists, the heroes, the winners. If you have heels dominate then people will eventually lose interest as there starts being no reason to invest in faces who they'll start seeing as losers who can't win, and if they do, it is only briefly until the heels once again get the advantage. WCW in part (many reasons) because they could not drop the constant heel domination. WWE has seen their audience halve since 2014 which was when the terror of the Authority was happening. AEW has already hurt Adam Page, their biggest homegrown babyface by not having him beat Omega at the next PPV. They can salvage something maybe if at the one after Page finally wins. If not? Boom, loser who can't win, why be invested in Page? 

 

Oh, and to be clear, I take it you are not a big fan of women's wrestling? You agree they should just get 1 match a show while some male goof worth nothing can be involved in a 20 minute match?

Edited by Rozalia1
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3 minutes ago, Rozalia1 said:

*snip*

Dude, I'm not reading all of that. That's the farthest thing from brief.  

 

I didn't come in here to argue about nonsense. I enjoy AEW whereas I spent 21 years as a WWE fan and about 12 of those being extremely disappointed in what I was watching until I couldn't take it anymore and finally gave it up after WrestleMania in 2019 (and gave up NXT after Takeover XXX when I could tell something just wasn't right anymore). AEW gives me what I was missing for so long...if it doesn't for you, then that's a shame. I'm not going to nitpick the little things. 

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Just now, Viper said:

Dude, I'm not reading all of that. That's the farthest thing from brief.  

 

I didn't come in here to argue about nonsense. I enjoy AEW whereas I spent 21 years as a WWE fan and about 12 of those being extremely disappointed in what I was watching until I couldn't take it anymore and finally gave it up after WrestleMania in 2019 (and gave up NXT after Takeover XXX when I could tell something just wasn't right anymore). AEW gives me what I was missing for so long...if it doesn't for you, then that's a shame. I'm not going to nitpick the little things. 

 

It is brief for me, hence the clarification that yes, that is me being brief. 

 

A common and expected story don't worry as no AEW mark can actually defend AEW on these points and it would be embarrassing to try. Writing off fundamentals as just nonsense is the way to go yeah. After all professional wrestling is just a joke, anybody can play, and all that so who really cares that it has never been more unpopular. 

 

You also misunderstand me. I never said AEW shows weren't enjoyable. Their clown shows are certainly far better to watch than the sterile NXT and the horror show of RAW. You can watch Dynamite and get entertainment from it even if it is terrible to you. RAW? You can't even get that. It just ain't being done right and ultimately will hurt professional wrestling even further as time goes on. On one side you have WWE with RAW that bores/beats people to death. On the other you have the unprofessional clown show of Dynamite that will eventually make watchers remark "You know... this is a clown show. Why am I even watching this?".

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2 minutes ago, Rozalia1 said:

 

It is brief for me, hence the clarification that yes, that is me being brief. 

 

A common and expected story don't worry as no AEW mark can actually defend AEW on these points and it would be embarrassing to try. Writing off fundamentals as just nonsense is the way to go yeah. After all professional wrestling is just a joke, anybody can play, and all that so who really cares that it has never been more unpopular. 

 

You also misunderstand me. I never said AEW shows weren't enjoyable. Their clown shows are certainly far better to watch than the sterile NXT and the horror show of RAW. You can watch Dynamite and get entertainment from it even if it is terrible to you. RAW? You can't even get that. It just ain't being done right and ultimately will hurt professional wrestling even further as time goes on. On one side you have WWE with RAW that bores/beats people to death. On the other you have the unprofessional clown show of Dynamite that will eventually make watchers remark "You know... this is a clown show. Why am I even watching this?".

Highly disagree about the AEW points, there's no disputing your points because it's just going to lead to an argument and you're going to think the way you think regardless. But you do you. 

Edited by Viper
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Jump start, by the face.

Jump start, by the heel. Note how Tully seemingly gets expelled ringside after walking up the steps up to the apron.

Promo with an attack. The Jim Cornette parody got his, quite weak, revenge. The Murderhawk ending the segment looking just a bit inconvenienced from the two man beatdown.

Match with a post match attack. Corpse referee was distracted for 37 seconds, after several go up the apron and do nonsense throughout the match... this is literally the match after the one that had Tully expelled. The Elite, the best wrestlers in the world apparently... but seemingly can't do quick distractions and require burying the refereeing. 

Promo with an attack

Woman's match in the death slot got no jumpstart or post match attack. The mercy of the booker of the year not caring much I suppose.

Main event was allowed to play out even though it had a stupid finish as, as seen with the Moxley vs MJF match, if the referee is distracted you are allowed to use the banned move.

 

Conclusion on the above. AEW Dynamite was host to a cacophony of constant attacks. Nothing new as anyone who pays attention quickly realises but it is good to have it laid out for those who quickly forget whatever thing they've seen in front of them and so don't realise it (I don't blame them). 

 

Now, getting away from the clown show nonsense. Jade. Looking spectacular as usual for a backstage promo that had a good act going with her manager Smart Mark. I don't even mind her not getting a Dynamite match this time around as she'll be getting one on the big Rampage show... in a heel vs heel match because DAMN IT. Just. At. Least. Have. Jade. Beat. This. Girl. While. Taking. Zero. Offense. 

Edited by Rozalia1
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Fantastic Dynamite, had a PPV atmosphere to it all night, everyone had an energy about them, the crowd was fantastic. Just a great show all around. 

 

But Rampage is where everyone's eyes are right now. I still don't think Punk is showing up, and almost don't want him too. But Friday is must watch TV for an hour either way. 

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1 hour ago, Viper said:

Fantastic Dynamite, had a PPV atmosphere to it all night, everyone had an energy about them, the crowd was fantastic. Just a great show all around. 

 

But Rampage is where everyone's eyes are right now. I still don't think Punk is showing up, and almost don't want him too. But Friday is must watch TV for an hour either way. 

 

I know you frown on the WWE comparisons but a pet peeve of mine has always been the "losing in your home town" tradition that they have, it has never made any sense to me to deny great TV moments by having a hot crowd pop big for the hometown hero, and Houston proved that point last night just like Pittsburg proved it last Friday.  I personally didn't give a shit that Britt's supposed to be playing the heel, the concept of always booing the heel and cheering the face is long since dead and having the crowd go that wild for her just made her look even more over than she already is. 

On a side note, did you notice Sammy doing the Bryan Danielson pose after his match ended.

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10 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

I know you frown on the WWE comparisons but a pet peeve of mine has always been the "losing in your home town" tradition that they have, it has never made any sense to me to deny great TV moments by having a hot crowd pop big for the hometown hero, and Houston proved that point last night just like Pittsburg proved it last Friday.  I personally didn't give a shit that Britt's supposed to be playing the heel, the concept of always booing the heel and cheering the face is long since dead and having the crowd go that wild for her just made her look even more over than she already is. 

On a side note, did you notice Sammy doing the Bryan Danielson pose after his match ended.

 

"Anything can happen on WWE TV". It used to be assured that a home town hero would win, even getting booked if they normally wouldn't, but after the WWE became an evil heel empire they deemed that too predictable and think they're subversive by doing it even though it is counterproductive. The one I remember most is Paige. She was put in a feud with Alicia Fox, who I like as a performer and had recently debuted her crazy woman gimmick based on Solange Knowles acting as Beyonce's hatchet woman as Beyonce had her "royalty" gimmick to abide by so her sister had to do the job of slapping Beyonce's husband around publicly for cheating. Think that was the story. Anyway, Alicia was being featured more in this new gimmick but she still lost constantly, her title shots at the time being a result of her doing attacks on the champion and not winning matches. Paige would beat her in every single match except... the one time a year they went to England when Alicia suddenly beat her. 

 

Edit: You may well not care about the below and disregard it. Feel free to. However if you do care about the health of the show and ultimately industry, then it should be a concern for you yes even if you don't mind it all yourself.

 

As for your comment on fans cheering which seems aimed at what I've said before. Fans cheering heels in hometowns has been a thing forever and not a concern, it is elsewhere that it is a concern. If a heel is cheered then to do his job he needs to do things to get fans against him. Orton for example infamously had his chinlock phase where he'd in matches with exciting performers put them in endless chinlocks to get the crowd booing him, to the point that fans started bringing chinlock related signs they'd raise whenever Orton put someone in a chinlock (one I remember was "Another chinlock Randy? Really?). Owens would later copy it with the added addition of taunting the crowd/opponent by declaring his chinlocks the best in the world and such. Cactus Jack infamously in ECW cut out hardcore stuff the crowd wanted to see in ring and promoed against it to get boos. 

 

What is the point to me listing of these people? Simple. They actually did their job correctly. A modern problem with wrestlers (there are exceptions of course) is if cast as heels they want to be "cool" heels. They want to be winners, they want to overcome the faces in feuds, they don't want to be constantly humiliated, so forth. Though, modern people don't just in a vacuum become like this so I wouldn't just blame them for it. If I had to point the finger to anyone on this I'd point it to HHH who you'll be surprised how many wrestlers have as their favourite/one of their favourites even if they wrestle nothing like him. HHH was all about being a cool heel and had two devastating runs with Evolution and the Authority that ran people off with constant heel domination. So a bunch of wrestlers who'd go on to be heels grew up on HHH and think that a top heel is a "cool" heel. You could go back further of course and blame Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair for being HHH's inspirations, but neither were as bad as HHH nor had the influence on the modern day that HHH has had.

 

In conclusion, you need to get fans booing heels and cheers faces and you can't run a evil heel empire because eventually if you don't fix that it will kill your show. People who support faces can only see them fail again and again so many times until they write them off as losers and stop caring, and once that happens they tune out. I saw people extremely mad with the Hangman result, a small number quit on that alone. Now imagine Hangman doesn't get a match at Full Gear or does but loses. That number will increase significantly. 

Edited by Rozalia1
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3 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

*snip*

 

I said the concept of always booing the heels and cheering the faces is dead, it still happens plenty in AEW but there's also wiggle room for people, like me, who appreciate talent regardless of what side of the fence they're riding.  The industry's not gonna die because heels get cheered and faces get rejected, if anything I've been far more worried about the one company monopoly that's been going on for a decade killing the industry with their formulaic, stale product and "we're gonna tell you what you like instead of listen to you" mentality,,, which is why I'm so thankful for AEW.

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2 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

I said the concept of always booing the heels and cheering the faces is dead, it still happens plenty in AEW but there's also wiggle room for people, like me, who appreciate talent regardless of what side of the fence they're riding.  The industry's not gonna die because heels get cheered and faces get rejected, if anything I've been far more worried about the one company monopoly that's been going on for a decade killing the industry with their formulaic, stale product and "we're gonna tell you what you like instead of listen to you" mentality,,, which is why I'm so thankful for AEW.

 

Did you know some fans of heels boo them? Back in the day if a heel was getting cheers it simply meant he was bad at his job and the promoter would not be happy. Tony Khan ain't that sort I'm sure, I mean the guy can't even sack obvious failures, but regardless. 

 

Oh but it only constricts further as that happens. As I told you, HHH runs of heel domination saw WWE's business get heavily hurt. AEW currently has the Elite. A group that this week won a match and then left laying 3 faces, the challengers for the tag and AEW titles. The week before they hit all those moves on Dante and beat 3 guys. We've even had jokes like Gallows beat the "Elite Hunter" who rather than being any level of threat has zero success against the elite. They've already held their titles for a good while so how much longer? Longer it goes the worse it becomes. Hangman is already a victim, we just don't know how much of one.

 

Yes yes, we all suffer from the damage WWE has done. Shouldn't let that excuse AEW's faults.

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8 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

 

Oh but it only constricts further as that happens. As I told you, HHH runs of heel domination saw WWE's business get heavily hurt. AEW currently has the Elite. A group that this week won a match and then left laying 3 faces, the challengers for the tag and AEW titles. The week before they hit all those moves on Dante and beat 3 guys. We've even had jokes like Gallows beat the "Elite Hunter" who rather than being any level of threat has zero success against the elite. They've already held their titles for a good while so how much longer? Longer it goes the worse it becomes. Hangman is already a victim, we just don't know how much of one.

 

 

 

...and in between those matches their top guy took a pin and lost a title on the debut of a new show, your selective memory's showing again.

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2 hours ago, Yuna4353 said:

Does anyone think CM Punk might not show up tonight? I do not know I just feel like we might get our hopes up. though I think im just worried 

 

 

A couple/few comments above Viper has stated he doesn't think Punk will show.  Me personally, I'm confident he will.  As far as I know Punk has been silent on the matter, which wasn't the case last time speculation was afoot and it turned out to be Christian. 

It's actually kind of awesome not knowing for sure though, makes me nostalgic for the good 'ol pre-internet days when surprises still existed and we all had to call our friends and say "HEY ARE YOU WATCHING RIGHT NOW!?!"

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