The AEW Discussion Thread

[buckallmighty]

Punk just made his debut on the friday night show of AEW. Challenged Darby Allen at all out ppv.. i was never really a big cm punk fan. Can the guy even wrestle?

 

I know he cant fight.

Edited August 21, 2021 by buckallmighty

[ReazonIzTreazon]

Well played booker of the year

[Viper]

Absolutely incredible reaction tonight. Punk might as well been Austin stepping through that curtain during the Attitude Era...that Pop was insane. I love it man...I absolutely love it. I just sit here...proud to be a wrestling fan again. I mean, I've been proud since AEW started, but tonight is a new level. 

 

I know I said I didn't think he would show...I was thinking that because this was revealed and was news, that AEW might have been going for the swerve and saved him for All-Out instead. But I couldn't be more happy to be wrong. 

[Infected Elite]

 

 

please give us Punk vs Omega (non title, for Best in the World) at All Out 2022.

 

Idgaf what WWE does this weekend, NOTHING will get this big of a reaction.

 

Cant wait for All Out.

1 hour ago, buckallmighty said:

 

I know he cant fight.

at least he had more balls than most people, and at that age actually tried knowing he didnt have much time for a career. Thats more than we can all say. So i respect him for that.

[Dr_Mayus]

On 2021-08-19 at 9:22 PM, Rozalia1 said:

As for your comment on fans cheering which seems aimed at what I've said before. Fans cheering heels in hometowns has been a thing forever and not a concern, it is elsewhere that it is a concern. If a heel is cheered then to do his job he needs to do things to get fans against him.

A great example was when i saw a house show in Calgary. Edge and Christian came out to huge cheers (as Canadians) and they stopped for like a second and Edge turned to Christian and said "See I told you they love us here in Edmonton" and the crowd booed them like crazy.

 

I still remember that almost 20 years later as it was the perfect way to get themselves over as heels.

[skidmarkgn]

I'm a West Coast chump so I had to wait longer than most, but damned if that wasn't worth every last second.

[Glorious Fury]

Punk's return was amazing. Loudest pop I've heard in sometime. 

 

Cooling the brakes on Hangman made sense for a moment like this, everything else will be overshadowed for a while with Punk around.  

[EnaTenkiyoGaming]

All I got to say is pipebomb!

[skidmarkgn]

I wanna chime in on Darby Allin real quick.  Dude cut his teeth as an undersized indie bump guy who accepted he was never going to make it under the WWE umbrella, fast forward a bit and he's a self made top star, flanked by Sting and feuding with Punk.  The story has of course played out before with the likes of Bryan, AJ, hell, even Punk himself but watching it happen never gets old.

[Infected Elite]

7 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

I wanna chime in on Darby Allin real quick.  Dude cut his teeth as an undersized indie bump guy who accepted he was never going to make it under the WWE umbrella, fast forward a bit and he's a self made top star, flanked by Sting and feuding with Punk.  The story has of course played out before with the likes of Bryan, AJ, hell, even Punk himself but watching it happen never gets old.

 

100% agreed. Plus what people dont really seem to get, having a roster of young new faces is great. But if they don't get any credible wins over recogizable faces it just becomes a topic thats like "well who did they beat? a bunch of guys new to tv? big deal.".

Punk will win no doubt, as he should. But later down the line having younger stars AEW wants to build as future company stars such as Darby and Hangman, having them score wins against guys like Punk, Bryan, etc. Eventually can do great things for their careers. 

 

Punk is 42. Let's say he signed 5 years. retire at 47? but all that experience he has. Daniel Bryan is 40. He has tons of experience to give the young guys too. Windham could do wonders. 

 

A funny fact although Roman was probably in Tribal Chief Character,  said Punk wouldn't move the needle... I beg to differ ?

[GoldenShaka]

Wow, AEW is doing such a great job. Wwe must be desperated to make that move with Becky. I know it was expected, Becky's return. But that match felt so forced.

[Infected Elite]

34 minutes ago, GoldenShaka said:

Wow, AEW is doing such a great job. Wwe must be desperated to make that move with Becky. I know it was expected, Becky's return. But that match felt so forced.

 

The pop for Becky wasnt even big, i don't even think shes a good guy now. Which about time. Heel cocky Becky like Seth would be good. But yeah WWE is desperate. This ppv is shit.

If Goldberg wins, ill lose all hope.

The point of Jinder vs McIntyre was a squash?

Becky returned and got an okay pop but nothing even close to Punk.

Brood Edge for all of... 30 seconds. What is this? try to get cheap pops off nostalgia?

Flair winning another title isnt shocking, they're trying to keep her happy so she doesn't leave. Shes now at 5 SD  6 Raw, 2 NXT, 1 Divas title. So thats a 14 time Womens champ already. Shes 35.... shes gonna hit 20 titles before 2023 probably.

[Viper]

8 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

I wanna chime in on Darby Allin real quick.  Dude cut his teeth as an undersized indie bump guy who accepted he was never going to make it under the WWE umbrella, fast forward a bit and he's a self made top star, flanked by Sting and feuding with Punk.  The story has of course played out before with the likes of Bryan, AJ, hell, even Punk himself but watching it happen never gets old.

You also have to think...Punk comes back after 7 years away and who is the first person he chooses to have a match with? Darby Allin. Punk is obviously winning at All-Out...but the fact that Darby was even chosen to have that first match back with him, is huge. He doesn't have to win that match, he already got the rub just from that. 

[Rozalia1]

CM Punk returned and he looked like he'd apologise for a bit for disgracing himself and Professional Wrestling for his shameful displays in UFC... but then took it in the easy and expected anti-WWE attack. It was obviously a good promo and you can't ever take that away from Punk, though he did a very small ultimately meaningless slip in not actually knowing what day AEW runs PPVs. 

And no, don't even bother with arguments that he was "brave" or whatever to face known jokes like his second opponent and still get utterly destroyed. In the old days Punk would have been blackballed across the industry for being an embarrassment to every professional wrestler for losing to such low tier competition. 

 

Anyway. Jade. I don't understand what AEW's malfunction is. If Jade is going to win anyway after hitting two moves... why give the jobber longer time on offense to hit a bunch of moves like that? You have out there an amazon, a goddess, and you're letting these small jobbers get in offense like this? Just have Jade crush them completely and sell nothing. You want her in the ring longer? Then have her hit more moves on the opponents in kayfabe just because she feels like it. They mentioned Baker at the end there which is good as I am waiting AEW for one of your signature heel vs heel matches in this instance. 

 

On 20/08/2021 at 6:24 PM, skidmarkgn said:

...and in between those matches their top guy took a pin and lost a title on the debut of a new show, your selective memory's showing again.

 

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/kenny-omega-3453.html?prom_id=285&res=100

 

Omega's AEW record right there. His last loss in singles before Christian was Nov 9th 2019 against Moxley (who was champion)... but that match was actually an unsanctioned match so actually doesn't count. His actual legitimate last loss was a little further back in Aug 31st 2019 against PAC, hence why PAC mentioned it in that promo. Those losses were Omega as a face also it should be said, as a heel he was undefeated until Christian beat him. 

 

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/nick-jackson-4667.html?prom_id=285&res=100

 

The Young Bucks meanwhile since going heel have also only ever lost one tag match. Before that recentish loss to Kingston and Penta on June 30th their last loss was Aug 27th 2020... in a gauntlet match after beating another team... so like with Omega, to go back to a legitimate loss it'd be Feb 29th 2020.

 

The above are all verifiable facts. There is no selective memory on my part. I find it a laughable argument that as Omega/Bucks recently lost 1 match... that somehow makes up for them running everyone over for ages. 

 

 

15 hours ago, Glorious Fury said:

Punk's return was amazing. Loudest pop I've heard in sometime. 

 

Cooling the brakes on Hangman made sense for a moment like this, everything else will be overshadowed for a while with Punk around.  

 

TNA thought the same and we know how that went. Ironically, the Elite who I've talked against in this very post are what keeps people from realising how many WWE guys are going to be coming in to get put above guys they had already. 

 

8 minutes ago, Infected Elite said:

The pop for Becky wasnt even big, i don't even think shes a good guy now. Which about time. Heel cocky Becky like Seth would be good. But yeah WWE is desperate. This ppv is shit.

If Goldberg wins, ill lose all hope.

The point of Jinder vs McIntyre was a squash?

Becky returned and got an okay pop but nothing even close to Punk.

Brood Edge for all of... 30 seconds. What is this? try to get cheap pops off nostalgia?

Flair winning another title isnt shocking, they're trying to keep her happy so she doesn't leave. Shes now at 5 SD  6 Raw, 2 NXT, 1 Divas title. So thats a 14 time Womens champ already. Shes 35.... shes gonna hit 20 titles before 2023 probably.

 

Certainly fair to compare someone, a woman at that who have it harder getting such responses, returning after 9 months with someone returning after 7 years in their hometown in front of the truest believers of AEW. Why even put Becky down like that? Silly. Anyway, she'll most likely remain face and Belair will be turned heel. 

 

Incorrect on the Charlotte Flair title reigns. NXT title no longer counts towards her amount of reigns as it is no longer a top title within WWE. Though yes, she has a silly amount of reigns which were built up nicely when her and Sasha traded it constantly in 2016 or whenever it was. 

 

You should really be posting this WWE results commenting in the WWE thread.

[skidmarkgn]

13 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

*snip*

 

"Well, it wasn't the way I would have done it, it was actually a lot better.  It was perfect".  That's the opening quote from Jim Cornette's podcast about Punk's debut.  Even Jim Freakin' Cornette, the man who's hate for AEW has become thing of legend, praised the shit out of the same segment that you could only force yourself to give a backhanded compliment to, complete with an insult and nit-pick.  When you say my point when I defend AEW is laughable, it's kinda hard to take seriously when your bias is so obvious you can't even acknowledge one of the greatest segments in years.  

 

Edit:  I also did some research of my own, Roman Reigns' heel character is often referred to as "the only good thing WWE has going right now"  so lets check his win/loss record and see when his last singles loss was too:

 

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/roman-reigns-6728.html?res=5000

 

December 15th, 2019, and it was against King Corbin which suggests it was before the heel turn, meaning he's also STILL undefeated in singles competition as a heel, unlike Kenny who, regardless of whether you think it's relevant or not, did a job to Christian because the time was right. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by skidmarkgn

[Glorious Fury]

6 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

TNA thought the same and we know how that went. Ironically, the Elite who I've talked against in this very post are what keeps people from realising how many WWE guys are going to be coming in to get put above guys they had already. 

 

Omega is positioned as a top guy in the company and the current champion, why would he lose often? He's put over Moxley, Jericho, Christian and Pac. They are all ex-WWE.

[jackmadrox]

AEW Rampage last Friday was historic. It was the turning point. I'm not even a big CM Punk fan. But it can not be disputed... CM Punk is in fact, a draw. Now all AEW needs is Bryan Daniels and Windham Rotunda, and WWE will surely piss themselves.

[ReazonIzTreazon]

15 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

CM Punk returned and he looked like he'd apologise for a bit for disgracing himself and Professional Wrestling for his shameful displays in UFC... but then took it in the easy and expected anti-WWE attack. It was obviously a good promo and you can't ever take that away from Punk, though he did a very small ultimately meaningless slip in not actually knowing what day AEW runs PPVs. 

And no, don't even bother with arguments that he was "brave" or whatever to face known jokes like his second opponent and still get utterly destroyed. In the old days Punk would have been blackballed across the industry for being an embarrassment to every professional wrestler for losing to such low tier competition. 

 

Anyway. Jade. I don't understand what AEW's malfunction is. If Jade is going to win anyway after hitting two moves... why give the jobber longer time on offense to hit a bunch of moves like that? You have out there an amazon, a goddess, and you're letting these small jobbers get in offense like this? Just have Jade crush them completely and sell nothing. You want her in the ring longer? Then have her hit more moves on the opponents in kayfabe just because she feels like it. They mentioned Baker at the end there which is good as I am waiting AEW for one of your signature heel vs heel matches in this instance. 

 

 

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/kenny-omega-3453.html?prom_id=285&res=100

 

Omega's AEW record right there. His last loss in singles before Christian was Nov 9th 2019 against Moxley (who was champion)... but that match was actually an unsanctioned match so actually doesn't count. His actual legitimate last loss was a little further back in Aug 31st 2019 against PAC, hence why PAC mentioned it in that promo. Those losses were Omega as a face also it should be said, as a heel he was undefeated until Christian beat him. 

 

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/nick-jackson-4667.html?prom_id=285&res=100

 

The Young Bucks meanwhile since going heel have also only ever lost one tag match. Before that recentish loss to Kingston and Penta on June 30th their last loss was Aug 27th 2020... in a gauntlet match after beating another team... so like with Omega, to go back to a legitimate loss it'd be Feb 29th 2020.

 

The above are all verifiable facts. There is no selective memory on my part. I find it a laughable argument that as Omega/Bucks recently lost 1 match... that somehow makes up for them running everyone over for ages. 

 

 

 

TNA thought the same and we know how that went. Ironically, the Elite who I've talked against in this very post are what keeps people from realising how many WWE guys are going to be coming in to get put above guys they had already. 

 

 

Certainly fair to compare someone, a woman at that who have it harder getting such responses, returning after 9 months with someone returning after 7 years in their hometown in front of the truest believers of AEW. Why even put Becky down like that? Silly. Anyway, she'll most likely remain face and Belair will be turned heel. 

 

Incorrect on the Charlotte Flair title reigns. NXT title no longer counts towards her amount of reigns as it is no longer a top title within WWE. Though yes, she has a silly amount of reigns which were built up nicely when her and Sasha traded it constantly in 2016 or whenever it was. 

 

You should really be posting this WWE results commenting in the WWE thread.

 

Actually, AEW holds PPV's on Saturday's AND Sunday's. So if you're going to nitpick on something that even you admit is "ultimately meaningless" then maybe get your facts straight.

 

I'm not even going to acknowledge the rest. As far as I'm concerned your posts hold no credibility when you can't even try to hide your bias and lack of objectivity.

[Rozalia1]

15 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

"Well, it wasn't the way I would have done it, it was actually a lot better.  It was perfect".  That's the opening quote from Jim Cornette's podcast about Punk's debut.  Even Jim Freakin' Cornette, the man who's hate for AEW has become thing of legend, praised the shit out of the same segment that you could only force yourself to give a backhanded compliment to, complete with an insult and nit-pick.  When you say my point when I defend AEW is laughable, it's kinda hard to take seriously when your bias is so obvious you can't even acknowledge one of the greatest segments in years.  

 

Edit:  I also did some research of my own, Roman Reigns' heel character is often referred to as "the only good thing WWE has going right now"  so lets check his win/loss record and see when his last singles loss was too:

 

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/roman-reigns-6728.html?res=5000

 

December 15th, 2019, and it was against King Corbin which suggests it was before the heel turn, meaning he's also STILL undefeated in singles competition as a heel, unlike Kenny who, regardless of whether you think it's relevant or not, did a job to Christian because the time was right. 

 

And? What is that supposed to mean in relation to myself? Wasn't an earlier comment of yours that I was influenced by Cornette into attacking AEW on things, something of that nature? I disagree with Cornette often enough and there are people he hates that I like and vice versa. Anyway, Cornette loves Punk due to comments he has made but especially when he heard about the apparent happening (out of Punk's mouth so might be a lie) where he shut HHH down, who Cornette hates (less so now due to the clowns running around these days). Cornette also thinks that Punk just got beat in UFC by shall we say standard tough guy fighters rather than you know, a joke like Punk's last fight who toyed with him, or perhaps he doesn't care all that much as he sees near all modern wrestlers as weaklings anyway. To me however, what Punk did is what Omega wrestling the blow up doll/little girl is to Cornette. I'm not as histrionic about it though yes. Perhaps I could have praised Punk's promo a bit more extensively sure. It was an anti-WWE promo at its base but as good as you can do one... I'd blame me not doing so on as I said, him coming close to giving out an apology for disgracing himself and wrestling, and then using it successfully to hit the WWE. I've also heard a lot of anti-WWE promos. I can recognise he did his performance and good job, but I'd honestly rather have the apology.

 

No need to cite the evidence to me, mentioned myself in the WWE thread not that long ago that Roman's last loss was Corbin during the infamous dog food saga, though nice to actually cite evidence yes. He was still a face at the time yes and having a very long feud with Corbin and his two stooges Ziggler and Roode. 

 

Now where is the difference? Even the so called expert Meltzer thinks there isn't any so I don't blame you if you can't see it. Omega and Reigns are the same type of character I believe was his phrasing. Except no, that is not the case. Roman Reigns has not considerably weakened since his time as the top face and is a serious monster heel who has when for example been sneak attacked by two faces armed with weapons destroyed them by himself and stood tall. He has two stooges in the Usos now but it is firmly established that Roman doesn't actually need them as he is just that overwhelmingly strong in kayfabe. Rare to have this as usually the goons are there to establish that without them the heel would lose in some cases basically every match, but it does happen. Roman is a tall well built heavyweight who has impact in his moveset and is a good serious promo. He additionally exists in WWE which is a company that beats you down mentally for daring to watch it and so he usually stands out as the unique bright spot in the company, largely because as Roman Reigns he now has the authority to do his own stuff and get away from Vince/whoever's nonsense.

 

Kenny Omega is not a monster heel. He is an average sized (well, slightly above at this point) cruiserweight who prances around a bunch and does a lot of jokes in his promos and seems incapable of a fully serious promo. Him and his group does a lot of cheating in a promotion where rules don't matter. They can use weapons freely in front of refs, they can be out of the ring for an eternity, they can enter the ring illegally and be in there an eternity, and if for whatever reason it is decided that they should try some of this wrestling stuff and distract the referee they bury the whole thing by having the referee distracted for an eternity to where it becomes a farce. Him losing to Christian was not the right time either. There is far less value in Hangman beating an Omega who by the time of Full Gear will likely have lost all of his other non-AEW belts, then there is in beating an Omega who has been undefeated for ages. He is ultimately more say JBL than Roman Reigns. Note that JBL once stripped of all his cheating and goons quickly lost to up to then midcarder John Cena in short order at Wrestlemania to begin the era of Cena. Will Omega do the same? I doubt it. It'll be a "big epic showdown" I'm sure even if it'll make no sense to be, I mean he is the "world's greatest wrestler" after all. 

 

12 hours ago, Glorious Fury said:

Omega is positioned as a top guy in the company and the current champion, why would he lose often? He's put over Moxley, Jericho, Christian and Pac. They are all ex-WWE.

 

That was in 2019 and them being ex-WWE guys is actually a bad thing, not a good one. I never said he should lose often. What I put forward is this long period of not losing while having constant post match/promo beatdowns of faces is not a good thing. I've been through HHH's two periods of this in WWE so I loath this nonsense and considering in both those instances it ultimately drove away a lot of people, even if I don't like AEW overall, I don't want people to get driven off. I'm tired of wrestling putting forward these heel super groups who win constantly and just do endless beatdowns. Pandemic allowed Moxley to have a sizable reign, who is close to a heel even as a face to hold the title, but before him it was Jericho and the inner circle. WWE is bloody WWE, the evil heel empire. Just let faces win and dominate. Hangman when it came down to him vs Omega and the Young Bucks should have just beat all three of them and been conquering hero. That is what I want to see. I want to see him beating the Elite over and over no matter how much interference is attempted. Instead Hangman is beaten and kept longer and longer away from the title to the point I don't trust them to actually put it on him at Full Gear especially with Punk, Byran, and possibly Wyatt coming in (and all the rest already there). Heck, even if it occurs I don't discount the idea that I think @skidmarkgn put forward that he'll just hold it for a month or whatever until some other heel takes it from him to hold it forever. 

 

Oh, and before anyone mentions me wanting Jade to destroy their whole female roster with ease as me being hypocritical. The women in AEW are barely cared about in AEW and are at best midcard (considering their constant presence of 1 match in the death slot, I'd say most are low card). A midcard monster heel beating a lot of people is a lot lesser damaging than that at the top of the card. Side note. Why is no one talking about Jade? Everyone should be talking about Jade when she is on a show. If she ain't on a show then everyone should be asking where Jade is.

 

4 hours ago, ReazonIzTreazon said:

Actually, AEW holds PPV's on Saturday's AND Sunday's. So if you're going to nitpick on something that even you admit is "ultimately meaningless" then maybe get your facts straight.

 

I'm not even going to acknowledge the rest. As far as I'm concerned your posts hold no credibility when you can't even try to hide your bias and lack of objectivity.

 

I checked and it is 9/2 split between Saturdays and Sundays. Something I missed I suppose due to the rarity of Sundays (apparently Khan books them on Sundays if the dates line up with holidays) but as I said anyway, "ultimately meaningless" even if a slip up.

 

Hahaha. So out of my whole post you attack a "nitpick" which I straight up said was meaningless, and then state that the rest is not worth acknowledging. Transparently that nitpick I myself dismissed as meaningless was the only thing you could actually attack. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Rozalia1

[Glorious Fury]

2 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

That was in 2019 and them being ex-WWE guys is actually a bad thing, not a good one. I never said he should lose often. What I put forward is this long period of not losing while having constant post match/promo beatdowns of faces is not a good thing. I've been through HHH's two periods of this in WWE so I loath this nonsense and considering in both those instances it ultimately drove away a lot of people, even if I don't like AEW overall, I don't want people to get driven off. I'm tired of wrestling putting forward these heel super groups who win constantly and just do endless beatdowns. Pandemic allowed Moxley, who is close to a heel even as a face to hold the title, but before him it was Jericho and the inner circle. WWE is bloody WWE, the evil heel empire. Just let faces win and dominate. Hangman when it came down to him vs Omega and the Young Bucks should have just beat all three of them and been conquering hero. That is what I want to see. I want to see him beating the Elite over and over no matter how much interference is attempted. Instead Hangman is beaten and kept longer and longer away from the title to the point I don't trust them to actually put it on him at Full Gear especially with Punk, Byran, and possibly Wyatt coming in (and all the rest already there). Heck, even if it occurs I don't discount the idea that I think @skidmarkgn put forward that he'll just hold it for a month or whatever until some other heel takes it from him to hold it forever. 

 

I can understand, with all the new signings it could change plans to the point it never gets done. Hangman's title run has to come within the next two PPV's, and he should be the guy to take it off Omega and nobody else. I'm fine with Kenny winning for now, as long as the right pay off comes from it. I do agree with you with Christian winning the Impact title though as a bizarre move, timing makes no sense and does nothing for AEW.

 

Also no way did Meltzer compare Reigns and Kenny as being similar. No wonder any guy creates some 'credible' dirtsheet these days ?

[ReazonIzTreazon]

12 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

 

And? What is that supposed to mean in relation to myself? Wasn't an earlier comment of yours that I was influenced by Cornette into attacking AEW on things, something of that nature? I disagree with Cornette often enough and there are people he hates that I like and vice versa. Anyway, Cornette loves Punk due to comments he has made but especially when he heard about the apparent happening (out of Punk's mouth so might be a lie) where he shut HHH down, who Cornette hates (less so now due to the clowns running around these days). Cornette also thinks that Punk just got beat in UFC by shall we say standard tough guy fighters rather than you know, a joke like Punk's last fight who toyed with him, or perhaps he doesn't care all that much as he sees near all modern wrestlers as weaklings anyway. To me however, what Punk did is what Omega wrestling the blow up doll/little girl is to Cornette. I'm not as histrionic about it though yes. Perhaps I could have praised Punk's promo a bit more extensively sure. It was an anti-WWE promo at its base but as good as you can do one... I'd blame me not doing so on as I said, him coming close to giving out an apology for disgracing himself and wrestling, and then using it successfully to hit the WWE. I've also heard a lot of anti-WWE promos. I can recognise he did his performance and good job, but I'd honestly rather have the apology.

 

No need to cite the evidence to me, mentioned myself in the WWE thread not that long ago that Roman's last loss was Corbin during the infamous dog food saga, though nice to actually cite evidence yes. He was still a face at the time yes and having a very long feud with Corbin and his two stooges Ziggler and Roode. 

 

Now where is the difference? Even the so called expert Meltzer thinks there isn't any so I don't blame you if you can't see it. Omega and Reigns are the same type of character I believe was his phrasing. Except no, that is not the case. Roman Reigns has not considerably weakened since his time as the top face and is a serious monster heel who has when for example been sneak attacked by two faces armed with weapons destroyed them by himself and stood tall. He has two stooges in the Usos now but it is firmly established that Roman doesn't actually need them as he is just that overwhelmingly strong in kayfabe. Rare to have this as usually the goons are there to establish that without them the heel would lose in some cases basically every match, but it does happen. Roman is a tall well built heavyweight who has impact in his moveset and is a good serious promo. He additionally exists in WWE which is a company that beats you down mentally for daring to watch it and so he usually stands out as the unique bright spot in the company, largely because as Roman Reigns he now has the authority to do his own stuff and get away from Vince/whoever's nonsense.

 

Kenny Omega is not a monster heel. He is an average sized (well, slightly above at this point) cruiserweight who prances around a bunch and does a lot of jokes in his promos and seems incapable of a fully serious promo. Him and his group does a lot of cheating in a promotion where rules don't matter. They can use weapons freely in front of refs, they can be out of the ring for an eternity, they can enter the ring illegally and be in there an eternity, and if for whatever reason it is decided that they should try some of this wrestling stuff and distract the referee they bury the whole thing by having the referee distracted for an eternity to where it becomes a farce. Him losing to Christian was not the right time either. There is far less value in Hangman beating an Omega who by the time of Full Gear will likely have lost all of his other non-AEW belts, then there is in beating an Omega who has been undefeated for ages. He is ultimately more say JBL than Roman Reigns. Note that JBL once stripped of all his cheating and goons quickly lost to up to then midcarder John Cena in short order at Wrestlemania to begin the era of Cena. Will Omega do the same? I doubt it. It'll be a "big epic showdown" I'm sure even if it'll make no sense to be, I mean he is the "world's greatest wrestler" after all. 

 

 

That was in 2019 and them being ex-WWE guys is actually a bad thing, not a good one. I never said he should lose often. What I put forward is this long period of not losing while having constant post match/promo beatdowns of faces is not a good thing. I've been through HHH's two periods of this in WWE so I loath this nonsense and considering in both those instances it ultimately drove away a lot of people, even if I don't like AEW overall, I don't want people to get driven off. I'm tired of wrestling putting forward these heel super groups who win constantly and just do endless beatdowns. Pandemic allowed Moxley to have a sizable reign, who is close to a heel even as a face to hold the title, but before him it was Jericho and the inner circle. WWE is bloody WWE, the evil heel empire. Just let faces win and dominate. Hangman when it came down to him vs Omega and the Young Bucks should have just beat all three of them and been conquering hero. That is what I want to see. I want to see him beating the Elite over and over no matter how much interference is attempted. Instead Hangman is beaten and kept longer and longer away from the title to the point I don't trust them to actually put it on him at Full Gear especially with Punk, Byran, and possibly Wyatt coming in (and all the rest already there). Heck, even if it occurs I don't discount the idea that I think @skidmarkgn put forward that he'll just hold it for a month or whatever until some other heel takes it from him to hold it forever. 

 

Oh, and before anyone mentions me wanting Jade to destroy their whole female roster with ease as me being hypocritical. The women in AEW are barely cared about in AEW and are at best midcard (considering their constant presence of 1 match in the death slot, I'd say most are low card). A midcard monster heel beating a lot of people is a lot lesser damaging than that at the top of the card. Side note. Why is no one talking about Jade? Everyone should be talking about Jade when she is on a show. If she ain't on a show then everyone should be asking where Jade is.

 

 

I checked and it is 9/2 split between Saturdays and Sundays. Something I missed I suppose due to the rarity of Sundays (apparently Khan books them on Sundays if the dates line up with holidays) but as I said anyway, "ultimately meaningless" even if a slip up.

 

Hahaha. So out of my whole post you attack a "nitpick" which I straight up said was meaningless, and then state that the rest is not worth acknowledging. Transparently that nitpick I myself dismissed as meaningless was the only thing you could actually attack. 

 

You misunderstand. It's not a case of it being the only thing I COULD attack. I corrected a comment you made with a fact, anything subjective there's no point.

 

Your posts mainly consist of "blah, blah, blah...heel vs heel...blah, blah, blah...one woman's match....blah, blah, blah...booker of the year". Ad nauseum. 

 

If your bias wasn't clear enough before, you made it pretty obvious after Punk's return. In what was arguably the best moment in wrestling in years, that was universally celebrated, you could barely muster up a back handed compliment and droned on about expecting him to apologise for his failed UFC run.

 

Thing is if you can't praise a product in it's good moments and only focus on the negative, then you come across as a hater. And that's when your opinions lose credibility. Which is a shame, as you sound like a long time, knowledge wrestling fan like myself and we could probably have a healthy discussion if your opinions were more balanced. 

 

I admit that AEW has its faults (I actually agree with you re: refereeing, but it doesn't bother me as much as you) but IMO it's still overall the best North American wrestling show in 15-20 years and many others feel the same. You spamming these threads shitting on it isn't going to convince people otherwise.

 

I don't enjoy WWE so I don't waste my time watching it or telling other people it is shit. Maybe you should do the same. Or not. Whatever.

[jackmadrox]

9 hours ago, ReazonIzTreazon said:

 

Thing is if you can't praise a product in it's good moments and only focus on the negative, then you come across as a hater. And that's when your opinions lose credibility.

This.

[Rozalia1]

8 hours ago, ReazonIzTreazon said:

You misunderstand. It's not a case of it being the only thing I COULD attack. I corrected a comment you made with a fact, anything subjective there's no point.

 

Your posts mainly consist of "blah, blah, blah...heel vs heel...blah, blah, blah...one woman's match....blah, blah, blah...booker of the year". Ad nauseum. 

 

If your bias wasn't clear enough before, you made it pretty obvious after Punk's return. In what was arguably the best moment in wrestling in years, that was universally celebrated, you could barely muster up a back handed compliment and droned on about expecting him to apologise for his failed UFC run.

 

Thing is if you can't praise a product in it's good moments and only focus on the negative, then you come across as a hater. And that's when your opinions lose credibility. Which is a shame, as you sound like a long time, knowledge wrestling fan like myself and we could probably have a healthy discussion if your opinions were more balanced. 

 

I admit that AEW has its faults (I actually agree with you re: refereeing, but it doesn't bother me as much as you) but IMO it's still overall the best North American wrestling show in 15-20 years and many others feel the same. You spamming these threads shitting on it isn't going to convince people otherwise.

 

I don't enjoy WWE so I don't waste my time watching it or telling other people it is shit. Maybe you should do the same. Or not. Whatever.

 

Only by letting AEW know what is wrong can there actually be a chance they will fix things as unlike WWE, the uncaring evil heel empire, they can and have in the past moved quickly to fix things if it is met with a bad reaction. AEW fans and well, basically everyone pretty much, has no issue making WWE a complete pit of toxicity I mean there is a more toxic and hated brand out there today even by people who tune in to it? AEW however what? People should knock it off? They've only had two years and you can't expect them to fix basic things as the saying goes form AEW fans? No. 

 

I'm not going to list out and explain all the points of contention I have with AEW extensively as clearly there would be no point but to be quick about it AEW to me has lied constantly and their fans, lead by head mark Dave Meltzer, say things about them that make me think I must be hearing talk of people from another dimension because it doesn't make sense in this one. AEW claims to be wrestling, to be more traditional, and yet is clearly WWE Lite and in some respects even worse with nonsense like running heel vs heel matches constantly because "face vs heel is outdated" when near everything in media is based on face vs heel from the start to now and going forward. They say they care about tag team wrestling and have the best division, yet their matches have no rules so their tag team wrestling is crap as a result. AEW is supposed to this progressive company and yet on women it only supports the views of Vince McMahon, Jim Cornette, and many other promoters that the women are only a sideshow nice to have so you can write down "also featuring women" and nothing more as they get 1 match a Dynamite usually in the death slot, something Vince does better than and when you're worse than Vince on something like this then damn is it bad. Related to their supposed progressivism you also have the show being very White outside the women, who as said Khan doesn't care about, though funnily enough he now cares more now with Baker who is a... White woman. Scorpio Sky is the only non-White guy to hold an official AEW title in AEW since it's founding and as far as I remember no other non-White guy has even sniffed coming close to being champion at any level, Private Party I suppose had a title shot at some point but everyone knew they wouldn't win. WWE were called racists, you know the company that heavily pushed ethnic heroes and had them hold their titles for eternities (Bruno pretty much squashed legends like Buddy Rogers/Stan Hansen/so forth), for stuff like this even though the Rock won it, but he didn't count as he wasn't fully Black. Booker T? Mark Henry? Not the correct world title so didn't count. AEW though in the modern day? Give it time, maybe in 10 years there will be a non-White AEW champion I suppose. Acceptable.

 

You say I ignore the good to focus on the bad. However, what about the many more people out there who ignore the bad and focus on the good (to them). The comparisons made between WWE and AEW are endlessly drawn by people to put over AEW as being better, but these people ignore all the comparisons between the two that puts AEW in a negative light. 

You are trying to discredit me with the statement that I am just a hater. The thing there is that "haters" often deal in lies and going after minor contentions to try and make them bigger than they are. I'm sure you might argue that I'm doing that (though do not try using the fact that I wasn't aware that AEW rarely runs a Sunday as evidence I'm a liar), but I certainly don't see where I have been lying. Do they barely book women on Dynamite? Yes. Do they run constant heel vs heel matches? Yes. Is their refereeing a joke? Yes. Other stuff I mentioned in the big paragraph of this post the truth? Yes. None of these are minor contentions. If I were just a "hater" it would be very simple to respond to me and expose all my points which doesn't happen. Just people who ask if I could stop mentioning all the bad stuff.

 

Though I can see how it is a broken record at this point yes. No one who watches AEW and is a fan actually cares about all the wrong with it no matter what it means long term, so it won't change, and so it'll keep happening. Talking just positive stuff would be a very tall order for me as honestly the record of AEW having wholly positive stuff on their shows is rare. Take Jade for example. Very over with me, the most on their roster as what a prospect. I'm still unhappy they let jobbers get offense on her that she actually sells before she beats them.

As for your mention of "well you can just not watch". Don't worry, very close to being out of wrestling entirely. I'm clearly not someone it is for at this point I suppose. Wrestling as a simulated contest you can't see through has long been dead and good thing it is to many AEW fans of course. "Carny shit" and all that.

[Rozalia1]

 

 

That is a solid number and around what I thought. I won't comment on what some people thought the number would be as honestly these things can go up or down based off random factors, but what I will is this odd amount of people talking about Roman Reigns comments where he in kayfabe said Dean couldn't be the man in WWE because Roman is the man, that Punk can't be a mover of ratings like he can, whatever... do these people actually believe that Roman is legitimately saying this stuff or are they themselves doing some weird online kayfabe where they (selectively) decide to take kayfabe comments as shoots?

 

Odd. AEW did very well for this show and their number in Chicago was huge. It is not a non-zero chance that WWE will add Chicago arenas to the list that has the Hammerstein Ballroom on it, the no go list. I mean everyone knows they've hated Chicago for a long time already. Legitimately taking territory if you will from WWE is quite the feat. Not the first technically if you think about it because the WWE has completely mismanaged the UK market to the point TNA even surpassed them I think back in the day and they are now in complete shambles there. Makes me wonder where else they should try to capture. West coast? WWE doesn't seem to focus as much on it as the east coast.

[skidmarkgn]

1 hour ago, Rozalia1 said:

 

 

 

Odd. AEW did very well for this show and their number in Chicago was huge. It is not a non-zero chance that WWE will add Chicago arenas to the list that has the Hammerstein Ballroom on it, the no go list. I mean everyone knows they've hated Chicago for a long time already. Legitimately taking territory if you will from WWE is quite the feat. Not the first technically if you think about it because the WWE has completely mismanaged the UK market to the point TNA even surpassed them I think back in the day and they are now in complete shambles there. Makes me wonder where else they should try to capture. West coast? WWE doesn't seem to focus as much on it as the east coast.

 

I'm only as smart as I am which means I may not be understanding correctly.  Looks like WWE has made it a point not to go to Chicago, but they should be considering it, along with the West Coast?

 

If that's the case, I 100% think they should hit Chicago ASAP.  With the Punk signing there's a solid chance they're gonna be in there with a hostile crowd, and if that's the case, milk it.  Take shots at Punk not being good enough for the "big leagues", do everything you can to generate Roddy Piper playing La Cooka Ratcha as Mexico's national anthem heat, it'd be good for TV.  On the other hand, if the crowd's receptive, they still win.  Chicago's arguably the best wrestling town in the US and they'll always make an average show good and a good show great. 

As for the West Coast, I'm a Washington native, lived here my whole life and I know we're a good wrestling town too, Kevin Owens and Elias had a brilliant segment working up a Seattle crowd once JUST by taking shots at us losing the Sonics (still can't believe they never mentioned the blown Superbowl, oh the heat they coulda had)... problem is, no Daniel Bryan anymore, and without him Seattle's not gonna be anywhere near as hot as they have in the past.  If AEW ever chooses to come here they have Bryan and Darby up their sleeve, they just have to actually make the damn trip.  So, If they're gonna go West, IMO it'd probably better to focus on California.