The AEW Discussion Thread

[Rozalia1]

8 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

Not gonna debate any of that, I was arguing against you saying she "constantly loses".  Also, I personally couldn't care less about the wins against nobody and losses against somebodies, she's the hottest female on the roster right now and deserves a title run more than anyone I can think of.

 

I simply showed why to me she "loses all the time". The only thing that can be debated there is if the wins over nobodies matters or not. In actuality I would say they do actually matter, though not as much as beating named talent obviously. It's an old and tested way to get someone introduced/over. Barin Corbin for example I recall in NXT for months beating up nobodies with a gimmick being that none of them would even last 30 seconds. That got him over as a monster who obliterated people and meant when a named talent was out there going minutes with him it showed the sheer difference between a "normal" wrestler and a "Superstar" wrestler. The problem as I've said is the fact that Baker is doing all this on Dark which is an irrelevant show. Khan can't get a few more squashes on Dynamite? Really? Can't cut a few mins from the likes of Angelico for them?

 

I mean... it's wrestling. WWE literally took a complete jobber in Jinder Mahal, which the only good thing you could say kayfabe wise was while losing, his RL injuries inflicted on Balor and someone else, forget who, made him look dangerous (because he was)... and just gave him their top title and expected us to treat him like a serious main event talent. Khan can by all means give Baker or anyone else a title whenever he wants. It's if it will mean anything that is the issue and I don't think it will. 

 

As for hottest, that is subjective. She is American and can speak English competently (notable due to the sheer amount of Japanese women who don't they have). She is a White woman which in conventional wisdom (I don't agree with it) helps on a national scale (regionally can be a different matter)... Likely the most marketable champion they have yes, though someone in that role should really be a face and not a heel... but hottest? As I said, debatable. She isn't bad looking to me but Jade Cargill and Brandi Rhodes if she counts as a wrestler are better. 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Rozalia1
Rephrasing the final segment which could be taken the wrong way

[Glorious Fury]

16 minutes ago, Rozalia1 said:

As for hottest, that is subjective. She is American and can speak English competently (notable due to the sheer amount of Japanese women who don't they have). She is a White woman which in conventional wisdom (I don't agree with it) helps on a national scale (regionally can be a different matter)... Likely the most marketable champion they have yes, though someone in that role should really be a face and not a heel... but hottest? As I said, debatable. She isn't bad looking to me but Jade Cargill and Brandi Rhodes if she counts as a wrestler are better. 

 

 

 

Think Skidmark meant it not in how attractive she is, rather in the sense she has strong momentum after the match with Thunder Rosa, which is very rare in a loss. I thought the match was great but like with Becky Lynch, why do people go mad when somebody bleeds and auto think they deserve a push. I thought Baker was one of the best women in the company prior to the match anyways, so I think she's got to be considered in the title picture or AEW could benefit from the buzz Baker has surrounding her currently. Thought her promo on Dynamite was good too. I think if she won the title, it would mean much more right now than Shida having it and actually boost interest in the division. 

 

[skidmarkgn]

6 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

 

I simply showed why to me she "loses all the time". The only thing that can be debated there is if the wins over nobodies matters or not. In actuality I would say they do actually matter, though not as much as beating named talent obviously. It's an old and tested way to get someone introduced/over. Barin Corbin for example I recall in NXT for months beating up nobodies with a gimmick being that none of them would even last 30 seconds. That got him over as a monster who obliterated people and meant when a named talent was out there going minutes with him it showed the sheer difference between a "normal" wrestler and a "Superstar" wrestler. The problem as I've said is the fact that Baker is doing all this on Dark which is an irrelevant show. Khan can't get a few more squashes on Dynamite? Really? Can't cut a few mins from the likes of Angelico for them?

 

I mean... it's wrestling. WWE literally took a complete jobber in Jinder Mahal, which the only good thing you could say kayfabe wise was while losing, his RL injuries inflicted on Balor and someone else, forget who, made him look dangerous (because he was)... and just gave him their top title and expected us to treat him like a serious main event talent. Khan can by all means give Baker or anyone else a title whenever he wants. It's if it will mean anything that is the issue and I don't think it will. 

 

As for hottest, that is subjective. She is American and can speak English competently (notable due to the sheer amount of Japanese women who don't they have). She is a White woman which in conventional wisdom (I don't agree with it) helps on a national scale (regionally can be a different matter)... Likely the most marketable champion they have yes, though someone in that role should really be a face and not a heel... but hottest? As I said, debatable. She isn't bad looking to me but Jade Cargill and Brandi Rhodes if she counts as a wrestler are better. 

 

 

 

That's my bad, by "hottest" I meant she has the most momentum (even though she just came off of a loss she's still the talking point of that match) and popularity in the division, the same way someone would say "The Seahawks are the hottest team in football right now". The only other person that could be in the argument (to me) is Rosa but her future with AEW isn't clear so Brit's the safe bet.  Hopefully soon Tay Conti will be part of the conversation too.

Edited March 25, 2021 by skidmarkgn

[Rozalia1]

7 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

 

That's my bad, by "hottest" I meant she has the most momentum (even though she just came off of a loss she's still the talking point of that match) and popularity in the division, the same way someone would say "The Seahawks are the hottest team in football right now". The only other person that could be in the argument (to me) is Rosa but her future with AEW isn't clear so Brit's the safe bet.  Hopefully soon Tay Conti will be part of the conversation too.

 

Oh dear, what a mess up on my part. Sorry. 

 

As far as I am aware Rosa is just cleaning up with NWA and doing some jobs over there and then will be full time with AEW. She is a face but AEW is full of both same alignment matches and guys going back and forth in alignments every other week so I'd say Rosa has the most momentum for a title match at the moment, largely off beating Baker. 

 

My thoughts haven't changed. Just strap Jade up. Have her destroy Shida in 3 moves and take the title. She is inexperienced yes, but treat her like a female Brock Lesnar who destroys people in a couple of moves while taking little offence and that hardly matters. 

 

EDIT: @GloriousFury9414 I agree that her having the title would be better than Shida, but you got to put the titles on people when it can matter is what I think. Baker has taken damage and the fact she has beaten nobodies on Dark does nothing to fix that. Same with Nyla. I mean... they can't have Baker go over meaningful talent even if via heel interference?

 

This is why I can suggest Jade who is as inexperienced as it gets. Even if she is, she has taken no damage and has been presented strong. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Rozalia1

[Glorious Fury]

15 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

 

Oh dear, what a mess up on my part. Sorry. 

 

As far as I am aware Rosa is just cleaning up with NWA and doing some jobs over there and then will be full time with AEW. She is a face but AEW is full of both same alignment matches and guys going back and forth in alignments every other week so I'd say Rosa has the most momentum for a title match at the moment, largely off beating Baker. 

 

My thoughts haven't changed. Just strap Jade up. Have her destroy Shida in 3 moves and take the title. She is inexperienced yes, but treat her like a female Brock Lesnar who destroys people in a couple of moves while taking little offence and that hardly matters. 

 

EDIT: @GloriousFury9414 I agree that her having the title would be better than Shida, but you got to put the titles on people when it can matter is what I think. Baker has taken damage and the fact she has beaten nobodies on Dark does nothing to fix that. Same with Nyla. I mean... they can't have Baker go over meaningful talent even if via heel interference?

 

This is why I can suggest Jade who is as inexperienced as it gets. Even if she is, she has taken no damage and has been presented strong. 

 

Wasn't sure about Rosa, still think Baker is a better choice for the title. Should have probably clarified that I didn't mean winning the belt immediately but building to that point where it makes sense. Rebuilding is common place in wrestling so a few wins over other bigger names can help build on the momentum she already has. Shida is unlikely lose to belt until a PPV imo, so they've got time to work something out. 

 

With Jade, personally think she'd benefit more from the whole Braun Strowman/Ultimate Warrior type deal, squash matches then building up through the card getting her more experience along the way. Have a feeling whilst being presented as a heel right now, I think she'll turn face when leading to a major coronation, a lot like the Drew McIntyre type thing, where he was clearly being primed as the next big face of the division and similar could happen to Jade. Maybe a good heel like Baker who would use underhanded tactics would be a good foil to somebody like a face Jade. Anyways just my take! 

[Rozalia1]

2 hours ago, GloriousFury9414 said:

 

Wasn't sure about Rosa, still think Baker is a better choice for the title. Should have probably clarified that I didn't mean winning the belt immediately but building to that point where it makes sense. Rebuilding is common place in wrestling so a few wins over other bigger names can help build on the momentum she already has. Shida is unlikely lose to belt until a PPV imo, so they've got time to work something out. 

 

With Jade, personally think she'd benefit more from the whole Braun Strowman/Ultimate Warrior type deal, squash matches then building up through the card getting her more experience along the way. Have a feeling whilst being presented as a heel right now, I think she'll turn face when leading to a major coronation, a lot like the Drew McIntyre type thing, where he was clearly being primed as the next big face of the division and similar could happen to Jade. Maybe a good heel like Baker who would use underhanded tactics would be a good foil to somebody like a face Jade. Anyways just my take! 

 

Rebuilding? It has been like a year+ it seems like. How long does it take? Due to Corona and the Japanese women being away they basically put the title in limbo. The first moment they could they booked a tournament solely to put over a Japanese talent and bring them over for a match... to then job anyway... Rosa and Deeb who were good gets only came in more because of Corona forced them too. Sorry mate, I can't give AEW any benefit of the doubt on this matter. They are simply incompetent. 

 

I'm not sure I can agree with your listed examples. Braun Strowman was made entirely by the Roman Reigns feud at the height of Roman hate. The RAW stuff where Strowman took Roman out and then kept coming back to hurt him more elevated him massively. AEW has no Roman Reigns type figure around for a rub like that. To get someone like that you need to push someone the fans don't want for years, having them overcome more well liked talent again and again, which takes a lot of time obviously.

Ultimate Warrior was never a heel. He was a face who just began wrecking everyone. The regarded first big moment being beating the IC champion Honkey Tonk Man who had held the title forever, in seconds. The only way you could get this would be to turn Shida heel... but turning Jade face right now would be sudden.

Drew McIntyre... perhaps WWE itself will push that history in future but I don't agree. They were very much wanting him as a heel and only relented after a long time of it not working and when McIntyre started calling a countdown to his Claymore finisher which the fans loved joining in on.

 

But to think of a Face Jade... conventionally Monster Faces are considered hard ones to book. The dynamic of face and heel generally involves the heel getting some manner of advantage and putting the face in peril. When the face is so much bigger and stronger than the heel... how do you make someone like Itoh, even a Baker, taking over on Jade look believable? I mean look at Strowman which you mentioned when he is a face. Every single match (and people quickly start to realise this) they have to do that spot where he charges at the heel in the corner and smashes his shoulder into the post after they dodge to allow the heel to take over. Strowman has to literally smash himself into something to allow the heel to takeover as nothing else looks good. Of course, it ain't impossible. Nyla Rose has size so even if she has been damaged you can get nice big time visuals from a match between the two. Awesome Kong and Aja Kong are older and more limited these days but are big and can believably take over on Jade. I'm basically describing the Hogan treatment here, where big massive monsters are brought in for the face to have programs with.

[Glorious Fury]

3 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

 

Rebuilding? It has been like a year+ it seems like. How long does it take? Due to Corona and the Japanese women being away they basically put the title in limbo. The first moment they could they booked a tournament solely to put over a Japanese talent and bring them over for a match... to then job anyway... Rosa and Deeb who were good gets only came in more because of Corona forced them too. Sorry mate, I can't give AEW any benefit of the doubt on this matter. They are simply incompetent. 

 

Meant it more in regards to rebuidling Baker than the entire division, getting her a few wins to go for a title challenge. I think incompetent is a strong term, but certainly it could be improved. Maybe I'm just more optimistic I guess. 

 

3 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

I'm not sure I can agree with your listed examples. Braun Strowman was made entirely by the Roman Reigns feud at the height of Roman hate. The RAW stuff where Strowman took Roman out and then kept coming back to hurt him more elevated him massively. AEW has no Roman Reigns type figure around for a rub like that. To get someone like that you need to push someone the fans don't want for years, having them overcome more well liked talent again and again, which takes a lot of time obviously.

Ultimate Warrior was never a heel. He was a face who just began wrecking everyone. The regarded first big moment being beating the IC champion Honkey Tonk Man who had held the title forever, in seconds. The only way you could get this would be to turn Shida heel... but turning Jade face right now would be sudden.

Drew McIntyre... perhaps WWE itself will push that history in future but I don't agree. They were very much wanting him as a heel and only relented after a long time of it not working and when McIntyre started calling a countdown to his Claymore finisher which the fans loved joining in on.

 

Think Braun would have been booked strong without Roman and gotten into a prominent spot, he's one of if not the most jacked guy in the company and McMahon obviously loves physique. It was more an idea anyways; it could work but I'm just a fan so what do I know compared to the booking wrestling committees. 

 

Think with Drew, it was the Roman back up plan as obviously Roman is the FOTC and they finally gave up on the Roman face push. Think Drew was doing fine as a heel personally. No doubt at this point he's the top face in the company, and McMahon clearly is very high on him beating Lesnar, Goldberg clean. 

 

3 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

But to think of a Face Jade... conventionally Monster Faces are considered hard ones to book. The dynamic of face and heel generally involves the heel getting some manner of advantage and putting the face in peril. When the face is so much bigger and stronger than the heel... how do you make someone like Itoh, even a Baker, taking over on Jade look believable? I mean look at Strowman which you mentioned when he is a face. Every single match (and people quickly start to realise this) they have to do that spot where he charges at the heel in the corner and smashes his shoulder into the post after they dodge to allow the heel to take over. Strowman has to literally smash himself into something to allow the heel to takeover as nothing else looks good. Of course, it ain't impossible. Nyla Rose has size so even if she has been damaged you can get nice big time visuals from a match between the two. Awesome Kong and Aja Kong are older and more limited these days but are big and can believably take over on Jade. I'm basically describing the Hogan treatment here, where big massive monsters are brought in for the face to have programs with.

 

True, I think what I said would work for attaining/chasing the belt but long term after winning the belt it could be difficult. I think it would work very well potentially in the WWE, as they have Nia, Charlotte, Rhea, Bianca etc who would be a fairly close physical match up and could mix it up.

 

I think it could work in AEW if the in-ring worker they are against is skilled enough like when Diesel was champ, with Shawn Michaels going against him as the smaller heel who despite the size advantage could believably win due his athleticism. I guess you could argue Michaels worked even as a heel, very much like a face with his selling and moveset and benefitted from good booking. Additionally, Michaels is arguably the best in-ring performers in history so no doubt it would be difficult to find somebody who has the same skillset. Perhaps somebody like a Sasha Banks maybe, but it would certainly require better booking for the women in that role to be viewed as a believable threat. Besides, heels cheat! (Sorry I know that's very obvious lol)

Edited March 26, 2021 by GloriousFury9414

[Rozalia1]

I often hear that AEW "hears people" and fixes problems... one look at the last show and damn... horrific stuff. 

 

6 man. Bucks and a friend they got a job (no business being on TV) against the Lucha bros and that guy who often nearly paralyzes himself from what I've seen of him (good fit with Fenix). Fenix was a "face" (knew they'd do this, I'm very clairvoyant I know) for some weeks but now that he teams with Penta, who is being presented as a heel... Fenix is a heel... People joke of the likes of Big Show heel/face turning constantly in WWE, but it's nothing compared to the Lucha bros who switch face/heel seemingly every couple of weeks for ZERO reason outside the BOOKER OF THE YEAR being trash at booking. Oh, but there is more. In the obligatory AEW post match attack Kenny Omega, a heel, came out and... attacked the heels??? ... Then... after a promo... the heels... attacked the heel Omega back and laid him out... 

 

Nyla Rose jobs again. You got someone that could be your monster very easily and... you just beat her into the ground. Why? Just why? Shida and even if I really disliked it, Riho, at least have the excuse that they're supposed to be the top faces. What is the excuse for Nyla losing to someone who is still a nobody? Unless they randomly give Tay Conti the title, just what is this? And because this episode had as a theme apparently a double feature of suck, Bunny!!!??? comes out and lays everyone out after Shida makes the save on the obligatory post match attack from Nyla Rose which... might just make this a triple as Nyla can't even "get her heat back", well try, as there was no getting it back, as she gets foiled. 

 

As for the main event. John Silver does have some charm to him. He is small yes but in good shape and certainly can have a role. I'm not against him getting a shot at a midcard title... but why against the face Darby Allin? Look I get it... strike while the iron is hot right? WWE often won't, usually seemingly out of spite, and so people who could get way more over don't. However, rushing to something that is just bad business is no good. Sting was also around to protect Darby from... a face stable in the Dark Order? And then Darby just gets attacked by Matt Hardy and his boys in the obligatory AEW post match attack out of nowhere anyway.

 

It was good to see Jade Cargill maintaining herself on TV. Not a fan of the whole "bitch" thing. Yes yes, I get it. She is the bad bitch, the head bitch, the alpha bitch... whatever. I am not a fan. Goddess. Amazon. Perfection. Genetically superior. Superwoman. Domination. Take one of those and modify it to suit Jade. I'm also very afraid for her match with Red Velvet... I expect her to win, heck if she doesn't I'll perhaps just not bother further with this I think because I have little desire to watch wrestling from people stupid enough to do that... but it's how much offence Velvet gets that concerns me. She got far too much in the tag match to begin with I felt and now that it is a singles it might be even worse. I maintain my view that at no point should Jade go down. I don't care if Velvet is hitting a missile dropkick, stay up. Going down to a knee, supporting yourself on the ropes, fine. Going down is a big no no. Do not commit the same mistake done with Nyla which has ruined her credibility. Side note. I get the slam she currently is doing as a finisher is seen as one of the moves you give to powerful women... but I think she should also use the Figure Four Leglock as a secondary finisher or any other submission that allows her to pose while doing it. It can be applied after the slam finisher on mid card talent if need be, but lower string people can just be submitted by it on its own. Posing is a big part of Jade so one of her main moves should reflect that, and on top of all that it puts across that for normal people they have to really put in a lot of effort to wrestle, but it is all so easy for Jade because she is so strong. 

 

Oh, also, as AEW (and it's fans) love to talk about how they're into long term storytelling and all that. So what was the deal with QT's wife? They going to address QT being infatuated with another woman and in kayfabe losing X amount of money to her? His wife into that? Her husband with other women? She likes just watching? Does she get involved? We need to know. 

 

Going to leave it at that as I could go on for a long time on this. It's hard to talk of positives when it is completely drowned out by all this stupidity. The only hook I have for next week is the Jade match which I hope will be a squash as anything less will be a disservice to the top female talent they have in Jade. It sure ain't the 6 MAN HEEL VS HEEL MATCH!

 

[Glorious Fury]

6 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

It was good to see Jade Cargill maintaining herself on TV. 

 

Goddess. Amazon. Perfection. Genetically superior. Superwoman. Domination. 

 

I maintain my view that at no point should Jade go down.

 

Posing is a big part of Jade so one of her main moves should reflect that, and on top of all that it puts across that for normal people they have to really put in a lot of effort to wrestle

 

it is all so easy for Jade because she is so strong. 

 

I'm convinced your Jade's number 1 fan ha! 

 

Joking aside though, I agree with your evaluation on the most part. Had a couple of decent moments but alot of Dynamite was fairly weak.

 

Whilst not brought up in the post, I still can't take Kingston seriously after that fireworks display at Revolution, so funny hearing him talk tough in his backstage promos. They are really trying to salvage him from that moment. 

[Rozalia1]

3 minutes ago, GloriousFury9414 said:

 

I'm convinced your Jade's number 1 fan ha! 

 

Joking aside though, I agree with your evaluation on the most part. Had a couple of decent moments but alot of Dynamite was fairly weak.

 

Whilst not brought up in the post, I still can't take Kingston seriously after that fireworks display at Revolution, so funny hearing him talk tough in his backstage promos. They are really trying to salvage him from that moment. 

 

I might well be. Some people attack the concept of just looking at someone and remarking "that is a star", but Jade certainly has that. It is insanity that WWE turned her away... which is quite a detour so I'm going to post it in the WWE thread. 

 

He addressed it as him going into shock or something like that, an attack. Said you can call him weak or whatever if you want but it is not something so easily gotten over... something like that. I think him and Moxly have a good vibe... but I think... now you got me attacking something I didn't even really consider but now that I look at it looks stupid also. Moxley should until he goes away... whenever that is, be the one that takes all the punishment in matches, not Eddie. Eddie should be getting the pins too obviously. Moxley is the former champ and was in WWE in a top capacity, plus is going away soon. Eddie got embarrassed out there by AEW's incompetence and should be getting smashed over for a while in compensation. 

[skidmarkgn]

On 3/30/2021 at 0:05 PM, Rozalia1 said:

 

I might well be. Some people attack the concept of just looking at someone and remarking "that is a star"

 

That's how I feel about Tay Conti.  She's pretty green as well but her ceiling seems incredibly high.  She doesn't have the size or physique that Jade has but her judo base and natural athleticism makes up for it in my eyes (Ronda Rousey-esque minus the shit attitude and personality).  Hopefully this time next year Tay vs. Jade will be the "must see" feud everybody gets enthralled with.

[Rozalia1]

Christian vs Frankie was a solid match though I honestly wonder how much the AEW hardcore enjoy this stuff because it is so alien compared to what else gets put on the show. I also found the weird emphasis on Christian over-relying on the Killswitch... in his first match on AEW. Not to mention it is his finisher so... what was that about? Unless they're giving him a new finisher it just came off bizarre. Also... they have a veteran and well trained talent like Kazarian around and... we never see him? Perhaps for the best as the tag team he is in is pure death. 

 

Jade promo was basically a repeat from her last. Nice outfit and she had the fire, so if she can do that in the ring then excellent, but beyond that not much to say... except I was under the impression that Jade vs Red Velvet was this week so I feel cheated. I imagine it was until they got to writing the Cody stuff and then they had to delay it. The attack backstage by Jade was very basic. Needed to destroy Red Velvet more, about x3 more.

 

QT vs Cody had a horrible call by Excalibur on the steps weight. People attack and make fun of WWE saying the steps are "near 300lbs" or whatever... Excalibur out there saying the steps are 500lbs... I don't get it. Can't add a couple of lbs to a guy to put him over 200lbs, but you can inflate the weight of the steps by a massive degree? As for the angle and match, it was solid for what it was though a bit odd that the million guys Cody had with him got beaten by just 3 job guys. Also, once again Red Velvet out there playing the role of Brandi... how far does this go? Forgive me as it is crude, but does Brandi have Red Velvet play her role in the bedroom with Cody too? Didn't like her making the save either, have 1 job guy hold her back, and swing that chair QT. Also, another stable in AEW? I wonder why there are so many stables in AEW... is it Khan is a NJPW mark... or that because Vince doesn't like stables he has to put them out there in excess? 

 

Scorpio Sky is back in a tag team and will now exist on the B show no one watches? Cool. Well worth getting that PPV win. 

 

Pinnacle... just what is going on. First off... Jericho and most of his guys are... hiding in the toilet so they can do the funny spot of guy opening a door, seeing something he doesn't like, and closing it. However, you can forget that because of what happens next completely blows it away. Jericho's crew obliterates the Pinnacle utterly and completely and humiliates them. MJF got his head put in a toilet... just what exactly is the logic here? Who is getting put over? Why should anyone care about a payoff match between these two teams when Jericho and crew have already got more than revenge on the Pinnacle? I could not believe my eyes. I thought maybe MJF would manage to get away so Jericho and crew would still have "You got away from what you deserve last time MJF, but this time we're going to get you" to give solid reasoning to a future match... but nope, he got it worse of the lot.

 

Heel vs Heel match with a jumpstart in the Omega match. I hate that AEW is trying to make me hate heel vs heel matches. Done sparingly they can be great matches you absolutely want to see... and AEW just throws them on constantly completely devaluing their concept. Nothing is new here of course. Good Brothers are a worthless team. Omega is an idiot who lets people get far too much offense in on him. Lucha Brothers... first, it was their horrible tag team wrestling where they basically ignored the rules causing Jericho to actually have to take them aside and tell them that damn were they embarrassing out there. Second, we have the fact that as "WOW" as they are, their basics aren't great. Penta taunts way too much. He ain't a rookie or someone who looks like Jade, pack it in. Third and forth, they will either flip alignment for a couple of weeks or they'll be in all these heel vs heel matches. Mexican wrestling is looking horrible to me if these are their representatives... however... Khan is the booker and much of this is a booking problem. Even the bad tag wrestling is something he should be fixing, but clearly he is too weak to do so. As for Laredo Kid... so he ain't someone sticking around... he got the win last week and gets pinned this week... does the booker of the year understand any basic booking concepts?

 

There was a single woman's match on the card, which is pretty standard. What a progressive and inclusive company AEW is. As ever, it gets the coveted match right before the main event. Known in the business as the cooldown match, and by the fans as the pissbreak match. Tay Conti was given a big win over the Native Beast, Nyla Rose, last week... and gets pinned this week by... the Bunny... I don't have any words. Jobbing Nyla out was stupid to start with I felt but okay, perhaps they're going to build up this Tay Conti which I have seen hype around yes... then you have her get pinned by one of the lowest talents on the totem pole? Bizarre. Also, Tony Khan in the span of seconds booked a match between the two for next week and they had the graphic all ready to go? Well you see, the main event was next so there was no time to show it later... then don't have the woman's match in the death spot then... simple.

 

And the main event... oh dear... the main event. It largely functions as a handicap match as Kip is disabled early on via getting his head put through cardboard. Miro looks good at this stage yes, very good in fact... but AEW always has to trip him up as he then gets owned by these losers. Then there was the return of the alien, Kris Statlander... from what I can recall... her and Orange are an item right? So... she returns to help her man in his time of need... right. Here is the thing... has that in any way been established? Ever? Heck, Excalibur who usually tries to clue people in on these things didn't even mention it. There was something about her returning for revenge against Ford but... I'm supposed to remember that this nobody had her last match before she got injured with that other nobody? Ford or any one else has never at any point mentioned it. Anyway, we can wrack up another broken promise from Khan I suppose. I seem to recall him saying that he wasn't going to have Statlander and Orange as an item on screen but he seems to have gone back on that now. Statlander of course does a move off the apron onto a table on Ford... too much. Of course, the finish was as I expected, the Best friends win the match after Trent also returns. Don't you love it? When faces gang up on heels to beat them? Truly heroic stuff. A small mercy is Miro himself didn't get pinned of course, but he was certainly laid out...

 

I'm thinking I should start giving ratings for AEW shows. Perhaps the way to do it may be to completely ignore the content and start at 10/10 and mark it down based on certain factors. Post match attack? You get 1. Every one past 1 gets -2. Heel vs Heel matches start at -2, but get -1 added for each successive week of them that occurs. Every week there isn't a heel vs heel match will cause this minus to degrade, and if it degrades under -2 I'll take it off. I can make exceptions if I feel it has been done well, but that is unlikely I feel. I'll also mark a point off for any bizarre/stupid booking, though I'll only do so for big stupid moments as doing it for little stuff (Laredo kid being pinned this week was stupid, but who cares) would be taking a lot of points off. Marko Stunt getting offensive levels of offence will be a -5. If I feel anyone got too much offence in on Jade then I will knock off points at my discretion. Jade getting pinned will be a -10.

 

There was no post match insanity this week so good. However, it is the third successive week with a heel vs heel match so -4. I felt the Pinnacle stuff was also a real bad bit of business so -1 on that. Bunny pinning Conti who pinned Nyla last week was very stupid so -1 on that too.

 

31/03/21) 4/10

 

This is an experiment. Don't read too much into it.

 

12 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

 

That's how I feel about Tay Conti.  She's pretty green as well but her ceiling seems incredibly high.  She doesn't have the size or physique that Jade has but her judo base and natural athleticism makes up for it in my eyes (Ronda Rousey-esque minus the shit attitude and personality).  Hopefully this time next year Tay vs. Jade will be the "must see" feud everybody gets enthralled with.

 

She won't go anywhere getting pinned by the Bunny. Looking at her offence with the Judo throws... ummm... you can certainly do something with that, and so with her. I think she needs new gear though. The tights might make a lot of men happy, but are not fitting if she is going to be presented more serious on the Judo front. MMA style gear is an option, as is some manner of modified Judo gear. Her affiliation with the joke faction that is the Dark Order might not be too great a thing either... but I'll give you this. If she gets better gear and in future people the likes of the Bunny are just ragdolls to her... then she'll have my support.

[skidmarkgn]

12 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

 

1 - Pinnacle... just what is going on. First off... Jericho and most of his guys are... hiding in the toilet so they can do the funny spot of guy opening a door, seeing something he doesn't like, and closing it. However, you can forget that because of what happens next completely blows it away. Jericho's crew obliterates the Pinnacle utterly and completely and humiliates them. MJF got his head put in a toilet... just what exactly is the logic here? Who is getting put over? Why should anyone care about a payoff match between these two teams when Jericho and crew have already got more than revenge on the Pinnacle? I could not believe my eyes. I thought maybe MJF would manage to get away so Jericho and crew would still have "You got away from what you deserve last time MJF, but this time we're going to get you" to give solid reasoning to a future match... but nope, he got it worse of the lot.

 

 

2 - Heel vs Heel match with a jumpstart in the Omega match. I hate that AEW is trying to make me hate heel vs heel matches. Done sparingly they can be great matches you absolutely want to see... and AEW just throws them on constantly completely devaluing their concept. Nothing is new here of course. Good Brothers are a worthless team. Omega is an idiot who lets people get far too much offense in on him. Lucha Brothers... first, it was their horrible tag team wrestling where they basically ignored the rules causing Jericho to actually have to take them aside and tell them that damn were they embarrassing out there. Second, we have the fact that as "WOW" as they are, their basics aren't great. Penta taunts way too much. He ain't a rookie or someone who looks like Jade, pack it in. Third and forth, they will either flip alignment for a couple of weeks or they'll be in all these heel vs heel matches. Mexican wrestling is looking horrible to me if these are their representatives... however... Khan is the booker and much of this is a booking problem. Even the bad tag wrestling is something he should be fixing, but clearly he is too weak to do so. As for Laredo Kid... so he ain't someone sticking around... he got the win last week and gets pinned this week... does the booker of the year understand any basic booking concepts?

 

3 - Tay Conti was given a big win over the Native Beast, Nyla Rose, last week... and gets pinned this week by... the Bunny... I don't have any words. Jobbing Nyla out was stupid to start with I felt but okay, perhaps they're going to build up this Tay Conti which I have seen hype around yes... then you have her get pinned by one of the lowest talents on the totem pole? Bizarre. Also, Tony Khan in the span of seconds booked a match between the two for next week and they had the graphic all ready to go? Well you see, the main event was next so there was no time to show it later... then don't have the woman's match in the death spot then... simple.

 

4 - And the main event... oh dear... the main event. It largely functions as a handicap match as Kip is disabled early on via getting his head put through cardboard. Miro looks good at this stage yes, very good in fact... but AEW always has to trip him up as he then gets owned by these losers. Then there was the return of the alien, Kris Statlander... from what I can recall... her and Orange are an item right? So... she returns to help her man in his time of need... right. Here is the thing... has that in any way been established? Ever? Heck, Excalibur who usually tries to clue people in on these things didn't even mention it. There was something about her returning for revenge against Ford but... I'm supposed to remember that this nobody had her last match before she got injured with that other nobody? Ford or any one else has never at any point mentioned it. Anyway, we can wrack up another broken promise from Khan I suppose. I seem to recall him saying that he wasn't going to have Statlander and Orange as an item on screen but he seems to have gone back on that now. Statlander of course does a move off the apron onto a table on Ford... too much. Of course, the finish was as I expected, the Best friends win the match after Trent also returns. Don't you love it? When faces gang up on heels to beat them? Truly heroic stuff. A small mercy is Miro himself didn't get pinned of course, but he was certainly laid out...

 

 

1 - The inner circle vs. the Pinnacle is going to last a long time, there's at least 3 major matches that are 100% going to happen and I wouldn't be surprised if Sammy and Shawn Spears do a program as well.  They're not going to be able to keep the teams apart for the entire feud so Inner Circle getting a revenge beatdown isn't capping anything in the storyline, if anything it's just fueling the hatred, now the ball's in Pinnacle's court and I'm sure the individual challenging is going to begin.

 

2 - Fenix isn't a heel.  Laredo kid isn't a hell.  Penta, I'll give you that.

 

3 - The heels cheated to win, now Conti gets to chase the "dastardly heel" and get her revenge, booking 101, it's been going on since the dawn of time.  Conti may not (although I hope to hell she does) get the win over Bunny next week but it'll come at some point.

 

4 - Not too long ago you were nit-picking the detail of QT's wife not being worried about Bunny draining his accounts and what-not, now you can't be expected to remember Ford put Statlander on the shelf?  Also, Miro was booked like a monster like he should have been.  You saw the faces "gang up on the heels" as a bad thing, I saw it take an entire team to try and even slow down the monster down, and he still held his own against all 3 of them.  Also, every once in a while a feel good ending for a show is wonderful thing, he faces got their win in a silly but entertaining match  and Miro breaking away from Kip has begun.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any of your opinions are wrong, everyone's entitled to their thoughts and I respect yours, just giving you my perspective on the points you made that I don't agree with.

 

[Glorious Fury]

I'll get back to this, haven't watched the show yet.

 

Guessing as this crosses over... I can post this here. Jericho on Austin's podcast on the WWE Network, wasn't expecting that to happen.

[Rozalia1]

1 hour ago, skidmarkgn said:

 

1 - The inner circle vs. the Pinnacle is going to last a long time, there's at least 3 major matches that are 100% going to happen and I wouldn't be surprised if Sammy and Shawn Spears do a program as well.  They're not going to be able to keep the teams apart for the entire feud so Inner Circle getting a revenge beatdown isn't capping anything in the storyline, if anything it's just fueling the hatred, now the ball's in Pinnacle's court and I'm sure the individual challenging is going to begin.

 

2 - Fenix isn't a heel.  Laredo kid isn't a hell.  Penta, I'll give you that.

 

3 - The heels cheated to win, now Conti gets to chase the "dastardly heel" and get her revenge, booking 101, it's been going on since the dawn of time.  Conti may not (although I hope to hell she does) get the win over Bunny next week but it'll come at some point.

 

4 - Not too long ago you were nit-picking the detail of QT's wife not being worried about Bunny draining his accounts and what-not, now you can't be expected to remember Ford put Statlander on the shelf?  Also, Miro was booked like a monster like he should have been.  You saw the faces "gang up on the heels" as a bad thing, I saw it take an entire team to try and even slow down the monster down, and he still held his own against all 3 of them.  Also, every once in a while a feel good ending for a show is wonderful thing, he faces got their win in a silly but entertaining match  and Miro breaking away from Kip has begun.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any of your opinions are wrong, everyone's entitled to their thoughts and I respect yours, just giving you my perspective on the points you made that I don't agree with.

 

 

1 - I did not say to keep the teams apart. Obviously, in this gang warfare world of AEW they will clash. However, you got to leave something on the table, such as MJF getting away at the very least. Instead he got it the worst of everybody. As for Sammy and Spears... Sammy needs to pound Spears into paste, just obliterate him. Sammy is possible money they have botched hard. Why did he job to Hardy so many times if Hardy was just going to become a manager? His face turn and keeping him away has done him good, but going 50-50 or worse, losing at any point to a talent as low as Spears is just botching him.

 

2 - Oh? So why did they all wrestle as heels against a face team previously? Why did they have a promo done for them by Alex, Penta's manager and a heel? Why did they jumpstart Omega at the start of the match? Can a face do a jumpstart and attack at the start of a match? Sure, if the face is in a program that has worth, has had time, and the heel has been such a horrible person perhaps getting it personal and bringing in family and such, that sort of thing. Omega... did a minor post match attack and said some words? That is not justifying a jumpstart. 

 

Look, I know exactly what this is. It's been a few weeks and soon we are supposed to simply ignore that Fenix has functioned as a heel. That is the Lucha bros, flip flopping alignments... the thing is... they did this flip to Fenix... and he is facing a heel team? As a heel? What? Just keep him face. Want a jumpstart? Have Penta do it. Establish Fenix is still a face by getting Penta back and wanting the match to start fairly, something of that nature. Of course, due to the week before it is late to be doing that anyway I guess. 

 

Fenix needs to be broken away from his brother and all this sort of nonsense. He is their shot at creating a Rey Mysterio. To do that he must unquestionably be a face. He should in no way be teaming with his heel brother, having the guy's heel manager speaking for them, and doing jump starts in a heel vs heel match. As a face his style will be fine as faces are who are supposed to do the big flashy moves. Penta is not a bad prospect himself as a heel (good look and manager), though he needs less high flying and more ground based meanness, though compared to his brother he already is that yes, he needs more.

 

3 - Lets use that logic for something else. Austin is facing... X-Pac and HHH with whoever as his tag partner. X-Pac cheats a bit and pins Austin 1-2-3. Oh but Austin was cheated so no problem, he can get revenge next week 1 on 1 vs X-Pac. Do you see the issue? It is fine if Conti is going to be a nobody if this other nobody beat her (though you still have the issue of Nyla Rose getting pinned). If she is going to be a big deal, cheating or no cheating, she should not lose to the irrelevance that is the Bunny. Not to even mention... Nyla Rose is in the match. Why not Bunny cheats and then Nyla pins Conti? It is stupid and as someone high on Conti you should not be happy at this treatment. 

 

4 - Hey now, I was simply remarking that as they love it, what about that. As for Ford/Statlander... I looked it up quickly as no I can't really be expected to remember this, but when I saw Ford was a substitute for an injured Baker it started flowing back to me. Baker was injured because Statlander slammed Nyla Rose, someone twice the weight of Baker, on Baker's leg right? Then Ford was substituted for Baker, who was in a feud with Statlander... Statlander... won? I don't care to find out, I assume so. Then afterwards in a tag match against Rose and Ford... Statlander injured herself on a dive (stupid). What revenge has Statlander returned for exactly? There was no heat or anything and Statlander was who injured everyone in that debacle. I recall skimming some talk of possibly there being some BTE skit/s or something between them? I don't know, no one cares. 

 

Then book another match in the main event if you want a happy ending. Miro should be getting smashed over, not losing matches even if his partner is getting pinned. Oh but that allows him to break from Kip? Why does that require a match? Just have Miro in a promo say he was happy to be Kip's best man but he is here to win titles and so won't be involved in further nonsense with the likes of the Best Friends who are quite simply beneath him. He is here for titles. Done.

 

12 minutes ago, GloriousFury9414 said:

I'll get back to this, haven't watched the show yet.

 

Guessing as this crosses over... I can post this here. Jericho on Austin's podcast on the WWE Network, wasn't expecting that to happen.

 

Something that has been getting talked about is apparently Vince does not consider AEW a threat. As in he did some moves to try to screw them in the past but now has gone beyond that and no longer cares. Of course, who knows the mind of Vince and his ever changing nature. He could wake up tomorrow and decide AEW is the greatest threat ever and anyone who works for them is to be blackballed forever. 

[skidmarkgn]

3 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

*snip for space*

 

You know, when I read this it became apparent to me that pretty much everything we disagree on is pure "eye of the beholder".  I'm with you on Penta (unfortunately) needing to be separated from his brother, Penta has a natural heel vibe and needs to run with it.  I was stoked when it looked like Penta was going to feud with Cody, it made perfect sense to me because Penta's thing for a long time was breaking arms, perfect endgame for writing Cody off of TV.  I guess they came up with something else, bummer, but whatever.  Anyways, I digress.  Fenix alone hasn't looked like a heel to me for enough time that I just don't see it anymore.  As for the early jump in the match last week, when it happened my reaction was "here we go!", I knew what the match was going to be when I saw it advertised, a billion MPH spotfest with little to no time to catch your breath, while you saw the early jump as a heel tactic, I saw it as the logical beginning to that type of match, nothing else... again, eye of the beholder. 

When you set the scenario with Austin and asked if I see the issue, my answer would be no, because to me there is no issue.  I don't mind the person being built taking a dirty pin as long as they come out on top overall.  I also don't see Bunny the same way as you.  When I look at Allie I see an experienced vet ( I watched a lot of her on Impact because I'm a total Rosemary mark) who can only help Tay to shake off some of the green on her way up.

Ford and Statlander, I'll admit I don't know the details, other than they were in on each other when Statlander went out so may as well have her and Ford start back up, I just couldn't help but needle you, shouldn't have done that so I apologize.

The main event was very well received by everyone I heard talking about it (although I'm sure Cornette will disagree), it was a fun match and Miro still looked like a monster.  Miro and Kip have been feuding with Best Friends for quite a long time, probably too long, and it served as a great blowoff match.  I would happily take it over just a promo any time.  

 

[Glorious Fury]

Wrestling is very subjective no doubt. I mean look at Russo/Cornette, two guys who are polar opposites in how they view wrestling. 

 

Agree with Penta/Fenix being spilt due to the Face/Heel thing, as clearly favor each side making them difficult to pair. You might laugh at this, I would take Gran Metalik over both, mega underrated.

I don't watch TNA but can't really comment on Bunny/Allie, so will give her time. Just an odd call to stop somebody with momentum. 

 

Anyways watched the show, thought it was decent this week. A bit all over the place though but enjoyed it.

 

Positives:

Christian/Kaz - Put on a solid match as you'd expect from two experienced vets. Christian struggled a little athletically but for a man in his 40's and after being away for so long, did well. 

Inner Circle/Pinnicle brawl - Was really entertained by this segment and think it'll be a entertaining feud long term.

Arcade Anarchy - It was goofy but lots of fun. Felt it worked with Cassidy, Chuck and Kip as they aren't portrayed too seriously and more comedic. Miro is portrayed somewhat seriously, I think having him ganged up on throughout worked in this match and even then they struggled to take him down. Liked how they did Trent and Sue/Statlander appearances. Now let Miro do his own thing!

Nick Comoroto - Think this guy has an interesting look, looks like a wrestler from the Golden Era. Hope they do something with him.  

Callis on commentary/Young Bucks segment - He's great on commentary imo, shame he only does the Omega segments. Backstage segment also good. 

 

Indifferent:

Moxley/Bononi - Match was fine and liked the finish, but not good enough for Dynamite. Should be on dark imo. Match does nothing for either person, obvious winner, and ran on too long. Pure filler.

Short vignette segments - Forgettable but nothing bad.

 

Negatives:

Another faction breakup - Breaking up factions is fine generally but they did this so very recently with the Inner Circle, why repeat the same story so soon with QT and company.

Scorpio Sky/Page - So a guy just won a major PPV match leaving a group to go on his own, appearing to be a breakout moment to create an alliance with Page. Makes no sense.

Trio’s match - Kenny should be beating Laredo Kid quickly, not having a super competitive match again with a lower card guy. 

Conti taking the pin - Clearly Shida as champ cannot really take the pin, so Conti takes the fall. Couldn't they do DQ finish or something to protect her if they want a rematch, odd booking.

 

I'd give it a 7 out of 10. Will base on how entertaining rather than the booking aspect of the product.

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by GloriousFury9414

[Rozalia1]

On 03/04/2021 at 3:12 AM, skidmarkgn said:

You know, when I read this it became apparent to me that pretty much everything we disagree on is pure "eye of the beholder".  I'm with you on Penta (unfortunately) needing to be separated from his brother, Penta has a natural heel vibe and needs to run with it.  I was stoked when it looked like Penta was going to feud with Cody, it made perfect sense to me because Penta's thing for a long time was breaking arms, perfect endgame for writing Cody off of TV.  I guess they came up with something else, bummer, but whatever.  Anyways, I digress.  Fenix alone hasn't looked like a heel to me for enough time that I just don't see it anymore.  As for the early jump in the match last week, when it happened my reaction was "here we go!", I knew what the match was going to be when I saw it advertised, a billion MPH spotfest with little to no time to catch your breath, while you saw the early jump as a heel tactic, I saw it as the logical beginning to that type of match, nothing else... again, eye of the beholder. 

When you set the scenario with Austin and asked if I see the issue, my answer would be no, because to me there is no issue.  I don't mind the person being built taking a dirty pin as long as they come out on top overall.  I also don't see Bunny the same way as you.  When I look at Allie I see an experienced vet ( I watched a lot of her on Impact because I'm a total Rosemary mark) who can only help Tay to shake off some of the green on her way up.

Ford and Statlander, I'll admit I don't know the details, other than they were in on each other when Statlander went out so may as well have her and Ford start back up, I just couldn't help but needle you, shouldn't have done that so I apologize.

The main event was very well received by everyone I heard talking about it (although I'm sure Cornette will disagree), it was a fun match and Miro still looked like a monster.  Miro and Kip have been feuding with Best Friends for quite a long time, probably too long, and it served as a great blowoff match.  I would happily take it over just a promo any time.  

 

 

Thank you for being so considerate. 

 

Let me put it this way on the matter of him being a heel. When Bryan Alvarez and Dave Meltzer are discussing WWE, as they are so lenient on AEW they get accused by many of being on the payroll, and some issue will come up. A face acts like a heel or a heel has been screwed often in a fashion that makes them come off like the face. Alvarez will angrily call it out, this all does not work like this, to which Meltzer will reply that it does in WWE, which Alvarez will refuse to accept. It is the same deal here. To Tony Khan, to AEW, it may be well "that ain't a heel move"... but it is. Many AEW fans won't admit this sure (not saying you), but that is because they are primed to defend it as they can't let the "evil empire" win. To a person looking at it without that in play... it just looks stupid. I know full well that Fenix is not supposed to be a heel, yet he clearly is as nobody has the courage to step up and state the obvious problems in what is going on. Let's not forget that Cody Rhodes at some point way back when he was trying to sell us on a sports based product like the rest at the time, stated that in AEW they've moved past the "outdated" face and heel dynamic... why? Because of this nonsense right here, though only some of the time of course, as they'll abide by it the rest of the time when people ain't pointing out that they're being stupid. As for him not looking like a heel on his own... that doesn't actually matter, though if we want to talk alone... well, sort of. Why was he last in that battle royal they had with Jungle Boy? Where him and PAC were double teaming the young babyface 2 on 1 until he heroically eliminated PAC? That is a role a heel plays, not a face. Speaking of PAC, who is injured yes... you have a guy like Fenix who could be your top babyface and a Latin attraction... and his two allies are bastard heels Penta and PAC? It is just stupid. 

 

I respect that you have seen Allie in Impact and rate her. I speak as someone who before AEW don't recall seeing any of her work ever, which is going to go for the majority of people watching I imagine. She has been presented as largely a manager and a bottom rung talent in the ring if she has matches. Her beating Conti hurts her as she has just taken a loss to a nobody, as that is what she is in AEW. Yes it sets up a match next week between the two... but if you really must have that... set it up in some other way. To go to the X-Pac example again. You could have him cheat and help HHH pick up the pin. Austin then states he'll deal with HHH at <insert PPV> but first he wants to get even with X-Pac who cost him the match. As I said, Nyla Rose was in the match... just have Nyla get the pin... or better, as you have already invested in Conti... just have her win the match and if you must have a set up for next week, have the Bunny nail her after the match... of course, that would be a post match attack which you'll notice there weren't any this week. Why? Because there was so many the previous week that Khan decided to have 0 so he could say "look, no post match attacks this week. Shows you". The problem of course isn't that post match attacks happen, it is that when AEW does them they'll overkill it. It is why in the above experiment I give them 1 free post match attack, as post match attacks aren't a bad tool in themselves, but if they are a constant then you devalue them completely. 

 

I'm assuming Cornette won't make it past the Legos, which even Meltzer I listened to being all like "okay that was stupid yes" and he defends AEW heavily so you know how bad it must look. A shame as Miro is a talent, but you can hardly blame someone like Cornette who didn't see him as Rusev for thinking he is a goof who doesn't know how to protect himself in his booking. I'm sorry, but I have to agree with the view that Miro simply doesn't have the spine to stand up for himself. He is a former WWE talent. He was over. He is a big deal. This idea that he should at any time get laid out by the Orange Punch and all that stuff... no. He should tell Khan that he ain't selling nothing by these goofs and he'll just destroy them. Don't like it? Don't book the match then. I'm not saying Miro needs to become Hulk Hogan or something, but come on, the Best Friends? Look at WWE by comparison, who so many says are very incompetently booked (not a lie, though in different ways than AEW)... Rusev went like a year unbeaten was it? Lower end talent couldn't touch the guy, he'd obliterate them with no effort. Even guys like Big Show, Mark Henry, and the like, who are giants, couldn't get close to beating the guy. He then become maybe the last victim of Super Cena yes, but up that point, what a monster. Of course... I say victim... I mean, it is losing to John Cena at wrestlemania... that is a big deal. I actually wanted him to lose his first match to, if you can believe it, Jack Swagger, who Rusev destroyed often though Swagger was the first man to... get a draw with Rusev I think. My logic was I loved the Real American team and concept (Cesaro breaking away was stupid), and Swagger had been getting over big time with the crowd, so a win over Rusev would have finally crowned him as a Real American hero and all that, and with Zeb to speak for him... could have been money. Of course, I'd have rather had Real American champion Cesaro... but oh well, WWE is incompetently booked yes. 

[Rozalia1]

This Wednesday is going to be very interesting as some panic has gripped AEW and its fans it seems when the recent show, which they thought was gold, pulled in a terrible number. Lost a lot of the female demographic apparently.

 

Q1: 844K/396K (Kaz vs Christian)

Q2: 745K/375K (End of Kaz/Christian, Jade Cargill, beginning of QT vs Cody)

Q3: 696K/333K (QT vs Cody, Sky & Page promo, Cargill attacking Red Velvet)

Q4: 673K/343K (Moxley promo, Bononi vs Moxley, Team Taz promo, Inner Circle beatdown on Pinnacle)

Q5: 632K/311K (Don Callis confronts Matt Jackson, beginning of Lucha Bros & Laredo Kid vs Good Brothers & Kenny Omega)

Q6: 683K/332K (Lucha Bros & Loredo Kid vs Good Brothers & Kenny Omega, Britt Baker promo)

Q7: 611K/308K (Rose & Bunny vs Conti & Shida)

Q8: 717K/332K (Arcade Anarchy)

 

Everything I thought has been shown true. Christian vs Kazarian wasn't a terrible match, but it is so alien to the average AEW fan that it just comes off as "boring" to them. That is one of the problems with having a show filled to the brim with high spots and million miles an hour wrestling. People get desensitised to it and anything less than it is boring. As such, after giving Christian a chance many people just tuned out when they marked it off as boring. The worst thing in this though? There actually are AEW fans who think that this proves that traditional wrestling is dead/viewer losers and spot fest matches are king which... I can't even say what that is without being insulting. It may be true yes in AEW that traditional wrestling is a viewer loser... but that is because AEW caused that to happen. It is like in Japan where they do all that "strong style" stuff and all those insane finishers. Why? Because stuff like the Piledriver, once a death move that could lay anyone out, started being considered weak so they had to keep doing crazier and crazier stuff. Bizarrely, WWE is where the Pile Driver is strongest these days as it is a banned move, so when CM Punk busted it out against Cena many years ago, people legitimately bought it as a match ender (it wasn't) as Pile Drivers simply did not happen due to being "too dangerous". Cornette I recall speaking once on a territory that did shows in an area that didn't have wrestling for many years. Guys on the shows found that even basic stuff like a headlock would be over with the crowd as they hadn't seen wrestling in so long and it was fresh. Then they began doing what they were doing in other towns, run ins, post match beatdowns, so forth, and they lost those areas as the crowd became desensitised to it all and soon nothing impressed them anymore. I doubt Tony Khan learns though. Instead he'll think that the problem is the opener wasn't a match that goes a million miles an hour and also, perhaps like AEW fans, he'll throw QT Marshall under the bus.

 

It is just disgusting to see for me. These guys instead of having standard wrestling matches which are safe, are having to go out there and do insane stunts, hurting themselves and for what? A match or segment no one will remember? Who remembers who got slammed onto the stage this week on AEW? Who will remember next week? It is only going to make it harder to build real stars too. Fenix for example. Impressive guy? Sure, but so many people are doing these dives and all that. Now imagine if only Fenix did that stuff. Boom. That alone would help make him a star as he'd stand out more. 

 

The women also are exactly as I've said. Put in death spots and no one cares about them and why should you? On NXT the women are a big deal and so often increasing the numbers NXT does, but on AEW... there is, and has not been for a long time (I'd say ever) a reason to care. AEW fans I've seen state "Well there was that one period where AEW focused on them and female viewership actually went down, so women don't care to see women". The thing they miss is men and women both can tell when the company does not care for a talent. In AEW the women get the single match they do because AEW cannot have talk of them featuring zero women's matches. If they could get away with it they'd run zero. This is also why I've said the women on the roster should get little to no offence on Jade. Jade is at the moment still worth something, almost all the other women are currently worth zero. Trash like that should not get any real offence in on a star like Jade, as doing so dulls her starpower. 

[skidmarkgn]

6 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

This Wednesday is going to be very interesting

 

I'm in a tough spot here.  I'm sure I'm gonna sound like an AEW mark making pre-excuses but logic is logic.  This Wednesday is gonna be all about NXT, it's their "sendoff" from Wednesday nights and  from what I understand (I'm not very familiar with the roster anymore) they're putting on a PPV quality show, which of course is gonna take a bite out of the AEW numbers, I'd honestly be amazed if NXT doesn't pull in more numbers than AEW this week    If anything I'd say, not next week, but maybe a couple few weeks into AEW running unopposed would be more telling.

[Glorious Fury]

20 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

Everything I thought has been shown true. Christian vs Kazarian wasn't a terrible match, but it is so alien to the average AEW fan that it just comes off as "boring" to them. That is one of the problems with having a show filled to the brim with high spots and million miles an hour wrestling. People get desensitised to it and anything less than it is boring. As such, after giving Christian a chance many people just tuned out when they marked it off as boring. The worst thing in this though? There actually are AEW fans who think that this proves that traditional wrestling is dead/viewer losers and spot fest matches are king which... I can't even say what that is without being insulting. It may be true yes in AEW that traditional wrestling is a viewer loser... but that is because AEW caused that to happen. It is like in Japan where they do all that "strong style" stuff and all those insane finishers. Why? Because stuff like the Piledriver, once a death move that could lay anyone out, started being considered weak so they had to keep doing crazier and crazier stuff. Bizarrely, WWE is where the Pile Driver is strongest these days as it is a banned move, so when CM Punk busted it out against Cena many years ago, people legitimately bought it as a match ender (it wasn't) as Pile Drivers simply did not happen due to being "too dangerous". Cornette I recall speaking once on a territory that did shows in an area that didn't have wrestling for many years. Guys on the shows found that even basic stuff like a headlock would be over with the crowd as they hadn't seen wrestling in so long and it was fresh. Then they began doing what they were doing in other towns, run ins, post match beatdowns, so forth, and they lost those areas as the crowd became desensitised to it all and soon nothing impressed them anymore. I doubt Tony Khan learns though. Instead he'll think that the problem is the opener wasn't a match that goes a million miles an hour and also, perhaps like AEW fans, he'll throw QT Marshall under the bus.

 

The traditional Piledriver was used by too many people as a standard move before getting banned, much like what is happening now with the Superkick. Looking back to when I was a kid, I used to laugh when Jerry Lawler had a basic move like a Piledriver as a finishing move on the video games at the time. It must be the same with any new fans getting into the product now, things like Sweet Chin Music must be viewed how I viewed the Piledriver as a finish. I thought that the Christian/Kaz match was decent though and actually thought the match got better throughout, but a shame certainly with the drop in interest. 

 

I love Japanese wrestling but no denying it's very risky at times, more so with how stiff it is rather than high spot sequences like we see in AEW. I cannot stand the sequence we get very often on AEW/NXT with a bunch of guys getting into position for somebody to dive on. Awful, awful stuff. 

 

 

14 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

 

I'm in a tough spot here.  I'm sure I'm gonna sound like an AEW mark making pre-excuses but logic is logic.  This Wednesday is gonna be all about NXT, it's their "sendoff" from Wednesday nights and  from what I understand (I'm not very familiar with the roster anymore) they're putting on a PPV quality show, which of course is gonna take a bite out of the AEW numbers, I'd honestly be amazed if NXT doesn't pull in more numbers than AEW this week    If anything I'd say, not next week, but maybe a couple few weeks into AEW running unopposed would be more telling.

 

I reckon it should benefit both shows when NXT moves, as I doubt many casuals watch either product or wrestling as a whole for that matter and wrestling fans are torn between shows. It'll be interesting to see how the numbers fare, and how much they will rise if rise at all. 

[Rozalia1]

20 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

I'm in a tough spot here.  I'm sure I'm gonna sound like an AEW mark making pre-excuses but logic is logic.  This Wednesday is gonna be all about NXT, it's their "sendoff" from Wednesday nights and  from what I understand (I'm not very familiar with the roster anymore) they're putting on a PPV quality show, which of course is gonna take a bite out of the AEW numbers, I'd honestly be amazed if NXT doesn't pull in more numbers than AEW this week    If anything I'd say, not next week, but maybe a couple few weeks into AEW running unopposed would be more telling.

 

My interest is more in how the shows gets booked, how AEW reacts rather than whatever excuses get made, though you are right that they will have that as an excuse yes. If numbers remain down going forward they also will be using the excuse that with the vaccine and America opening up, young people will be wanting to be out of the house instead of watching the show which... as far as I remember, didn't the pandemic while expected at first to boost ratings... lower them significantly? 

 

Since I made my post I saw that Meltzer has finally, so you know it's serious, given criticisms of AEW which has made it even more interesting... all after the fact and not while it kept happening... but hey, Tony Khan is a Meltzer mark so perhaps he'll listen to him when he won't others. Too much interference/post match beatdowns, too much blood (Dustin blading for jobbers for example which was amazing), too many people featured while at the same time certain people going missing for long periods, stuff quickly reaching a conclusion and being done with. 

 

4 hours ago, GloriousFury9414 said:

The traditional Piledriver was used by too many people as a standard move before getting banned, much like what is happening now with the Superkick. Looking back to when I was a kid, I used to laugh when Jerry Lawler had a basic move like a Piledriver as a finishing move on the video games at the time. It must be the same with any new fans getting into the product now, things like Sweet Chin Music must be viewed how I viewed the Piledriver as a finish. I thought that the Christian/Kaz match was decent though and actually thought the match got better throughout, but a shame certainly with the drop in interest. 

 

I love Japanese wrestling but no denying it's very risky at times, more so with how stiff it is rather than high spot sequences like we see in AEW. I cannot stand the sequence we get very often on AEW/NXT with a bunch of guys getting into position for somebody to dive on. Awful, awful stuff. 

 

I reckon it should benefit both shows when NXT moves, as I doubt many casuals watch either product or wrestling as a whole for that matter and wrestling fans are torn between shows. It'll be interesting to see how the numbers fare, and how much they will rise if rise at all. 

 

These slower/more traditional type of matches are a sort of bitter medicine that AEW would need to take until its fans get used to the pace of them... but I don't see that happening. As for finishers and moves in general... people can get over with basic and safe moves. You do not need to get more and more crazy with the bumps. You just need to have the audience trained to them and get the moves over. John Cena, the last top star in wrestling (some say the last full stop as pro-wrestling many see as dying), used a Fireman's Carry Slam, a basic move, as his finish.

 

I've largely been attacking things on their booking/storyline rather than in ring action, and yeah I hate that. It's basically an obligatory thing in any multi man match and is horrendously bad stuff. Pro-wrestling is simulated yes, but the idea is that you're simulating a real contest and anything that breaks your immersion should be avoided. When you see so many guys obviously prepping to catch whatever fool is jumping at them... just terrible. There are ways it can be done and make sense... but most can't do that, so unless you can it should not happen. 

Of course, the response to these things is stuff like "Oh, but what about the Irish Whip huh?", which actually is an unfair statement as the Irish Whip may be seen as a "guy runs the rope" move these days, but it used to be an offensive move in itself. Whipping guys into the corners chest first/or they go to their back but the impact is so massive they crumple regardless, whipping guys into ropes chest first so they stumble back, whipping guys so hard they go over the ropes, whipping guys who do the reversal of turning around and running back and then you doing the drop down and their feet tripping over your body and them falling, them doing the turn around reversal but you nail them with a clothesline as they hit the ropes (hitting the ropes correctly leaves you defenceless), you get the idea. So if the Irish whip comes off as "fake", it'd be because people aren't using it right, or in some cases even worse as they aren't even whipping correctly (clearly putting no power into the whip so the guy just runs himself, head palm shoot offs, so on).

 

I'm expecting the worst and hoping to be pleasantly surprised. Any bump sub 100k will be seen as a massive failure I think.

[SelectiveGamer]

How many times are the Young Bucks going to turn heel? Weren't they heel not that long ago?

 

I get someone had to turn heel I guess, because that Inner Circle promo practically screamed 'babyface turn' I guess... but still... lol

 

Poor Cody is the only babyface left in The Elite. Or is that not a thing anymore? lol. It's hard to keep track of at this point honestly

Edited April 8, 2021 by SelectiveGamer

[skidmarkgn]

7 hours ago, SelectiveGamer said:

How many times are the Young Bucks going to turn heel? Weren't they heel not that long ago?

 

I get someone had to turn heel I guess, because that Inner Circle promo practically screamed 'babyface turn' I guess... but still... lol

 

Poor Cody is the only babyface left in The Elite. Or is that not a thing anymore? lol. It's hard to keep track of at this point honestly

 

In a perfect world Moxley and Kingston would team up with Death Triangle and the 5 of them could feud with the Bullet Club, then we would at least get a definitive answer on who's on what side for more than one team that's been confusing the lines lately, sucks that they're going the way of Best Friends vs. Death Triangle instead.  I guess maybe there's an outside chance they can blow that one off quickly and the logical 5 on 5 can get started ASAP.

[Rozalia1]

Hangman vs Castor - Sloppy match I felt. Castor beyond having the rapper gimmick is also doing some Cena spots like the nice chain one... problem is... you do that and it gets kicked out of? As I spoke before, don't do that stuff if you ain't getting the 3 count. Anyway... why did Page, a face, the likely future top face at that, attack the heel jobber's fellow heel jobber friend and then go into a jumpstart? Why not Castor tries to jumpstart, Hangman ducks, lays into the guy? Also yes, I am aware that Castor has all those wins. He is a jobber, no matter how many nobodies and Dark Order jobbers he beats, as the show will happily agree with later...

 

@skidmarkgn Changed your mind on Death Triangle not being heels yet? Because they let you know pretty firmly they were heels. Being heelish, getting interrupted by the clearly face team on the roster, badmouthing them... of course, as we find out of the end of the show with the turn of the Young Bucks... this is even more stupid because it means the title match is now a HEEL VS HEEL match. Tony Khan is a fool in his booking and Fenix is a fool for accepting this garbage. And no, I don't care if they come out of the "face tube", which AEW highlighted some time back. They act like heels and when they're not doing heel vs heel matches, they're fighting faces, they're getting heel promos cut, they are heels. 

 

Blood and Guts announcement... I suppose I'm curious what special thing they'll have or if this will just be a no DQ match but with a lot of people. However, is even Meltzer not enough to get through to Tony Khan? Meltzer has said the blood has gotten too much and has been turning off female viewers... so you book a Blood and Guts match?

Jericho switched two words in his promo but everything else was excellent as you'd expect. Mistakes happen and the experience is what tells you to just plow on as stopping yourself to correct can hurt more than it helps, everyone knows what was meant. Hager has terrible facials which is nothing new... maybe they should try getting him a mask.

 

Lance and Sting were out there lampshading Lance's bad booking where he'd go missing for long periods of time randomly, which he ain't the only one that happens to by the way... what does this serve? If you're going to actually maintain Lance around... just do it... you don't need some promo basically admitting that yes, your booking of this guy is incompetent. 

 

Cezar in the Darby match was dropped on the bottom end of the ring and then moved himself to the left side and sold there for a long period of time... and he didn't even factor into anything so it wasn't like he fumbled where he was and had to adjust... only explanation is he moved himself to be on camera more... which gave us a funny visual. Should be fined and reprimanded for being a joke out there. 

 

Jericho gets a second promo segment in the back... on his own... just so he can get jumped as why else would he be on his own... then Mike Tyson scares off the entire Pinnacle by himself. This could not be done next week?

 

Britt Baker... cutting a promo where she lampshades that the ranking system is a joke and padded with wins over nobodies... AEW cannot help itself. It's a common thread within Dynamite that certain things will repeat on the same show rather than being spaced out. The Sting/Lance segment lampshaded the bad booking... so now Britt lampshades the nonsense ranking system that gets used within the booking. 

 

I liked Tay Conti refusing to stay on her back when shoved down, it's nice character work she do even more. Be someone who very rarely remains on her back. I hate it every time Excalibur mentions "fighting spirit". Excalibur has a great passion and I can't fault him on that, good on him, and I think he does take wrestling seriously... but he needs to realise that doing these mark calls referencing Japan is low rent stuff. It might work there sure, but in English it doesn't come off right. That is to not say you can't use the term "Fighting spirit", of course you can, but not as he tends to do. The women again got 1 match and the death match spot... you know what, new rule I'm going to apply to the previous show as I just started it. If the women get 1 match and it is also in the death spot... -3 points. It won't build up as otherwise we'll get to -100 in time or something. Real good stuff by the way, how you highlight Conti is in the piss break slot yeah. They better not dare give this treatment to Jade by the way. In fact, give her the main event. Bucks and the heel vs heel enthusiasts can have the opener, they prefer that anyway.

 

As for the main event... at least hey, they waited a week to do the whole "I won't hit you with my signature moves" spot that happened in the Cody match... and just like the Cody match there was a turn at the end of it. Now hey, doing the same stuff just one week later is really soon yes but... progress. Young Bucks heel turned and we had the second beatdown of the night so hit that -2 for the excessive beatdowns.

 

Now let me see here. 

 

-2 on Beatdowns

-3 on Heel vs Heel nonsense, degrading down from -4 (of course, next week it will go back up to -4)

-3 for disrespecting women
I'm tempted to give a minus for the "hey aren't we stupid" lampshades but I'll show mercy. At least the lampshades should mean some positive action in the future.

 

Ends up a 2/10

 

31/03/21) 1/10 (applied the disrespecting women modifier)

07/04/21) 2/10

 

As I said before, my ranking is mostly on the booking and getting it marked down for being excessive or stupid. Though as I said before, I'm not going to mark down every stupid thing as then AEW ever getting a positive score would be basically impossible. It's not marking the in ring action in itself, which will only be a factor if they do something really insulting I have to give a minus for. Don't think I'll give +s as all AEW needs to do is not be excessive/stupid and they can get high scores... tempting to give them a + if they put Jade in the main event though...

 

9 hours ago, SelectiveGamer said:

How many times are the Young Bucks going to turn heel? Weren't they heel not that long ago?

 

I get someone had to turn heel I guess, because that Inner Circle promo practically screamed 'babyface turn' I guess... but still... lol

 

Poor Cody is the only babyface left in The Elite. Or is that not a thing anymore? lol. It's hard to keep track of at this point honestly

 

What a riot that was. Feud with FTR, a heel team, and they turn heel and start super kicking announcers. Then they just quickly go back to being faces like it never happened. 

 

It technically is a thing again as it has been "reformed" I guess this week. As for Cody... I will not be surprised if he turns heel after this feud with QT. It'd be very stupid, but seems something AEW would do. What Cody actually needs rather than a heel turn is time off to spend with his wife away from the ring, he can even take his replacement wife Red Velvet with him once Jade is done pummelling her... just have a good time with the wife and spend time with the new baby... being gone for a while will make people want to see him again down the line.