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SweetieBelle85 Rookie

SweetieBelle85

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On 6/1/2019 at 3:48 AM, AlchemistWer said:

Lulua is not an Atelier.

 

On 6/2/2019 at 3:17 AM, AlchemistWer said:

Nah, it's just a joke that Gust did in order to make money with the "Arland" name. 

 

Are you serious? Lulua is easily one of the best and most refined titles in the series, and without a doubt has the best alchemy/crafting system in the entire series. I'm only midway through, but I've been seeing the positive reception for it everywhere, plus I've played enough of it for a solid opinion. You're the first I've heard dislike it. Must be a story/lore issue you have, or you hate that there's no time limit, because everything else is incredibly good. I don't consider no time limit a bad thing, but I know a small portion of fans prefer it.

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AlchemistWer Veteran

AlchemistWer

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4 hours ago, SweetieBelle85 said:

 

 

Are you serious? Lulua is easily one of the best and most refined titles in the series, and without a doubt has the best alchemy/crafting system in the entire series. I'm only midway through, but I've been seeing the positive reception for it everywhere, plus I've played enough of it for a solid opinion. You're the first I've heard dislike it. Must be a story/lore issue you have, or you hate that there's no time limit, because everything else is incredibly good. I don't consider no time limit a bad thing, but I know a small portion of fans prefer it.

 

Most refined titles? but if you have only played 4 Atelier, if you want see a refined Atelier play Arland trilogy and when you reach Meruru (if you want play the plus version that is much better and harder) you could see a true refined title that learn and improve the error of the previous games and linking the best of Rorona and Totori... and the alchemy/crafting you are talking about is the same thing you can find in Mystery trilogy but with some new mechanic here and there, and yes, Lulua inside the lore of Arland trilogy don't make sense and the trilogy alredy end with Meruru. Nowaday no only Lulua has a good reception, as well Sophie, Firis and even Lidye and Suelle because since who know when people just complain about the time limite inside Atelier, the small portion of fans you refer are people that know and play Atelier since Rorona or even more if they know Japanese, Gust just became Atelier in other ordinary JRPG that you can find in any place. Nowaday Atelier has more fans and more people know about the serie thanks for the last 3 games and for that reason people love Lulua and the next game because Gust chance the way of create Atelier's games. If you like Lulua that is fine and I hope you continue buying more Atelier games after this, but in my opinion how an old fan Atelier already end.

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SweetieBelle85 Rookie

SweetieBelle85

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9 hours ago, AlchemistWer said:

 

Most refined titles? but if you have only played 4 Atelier, if you want see a refined Atelier play Arland trilogy and when you reach Meruru (if you want play the plus version that is much better and harder) you could see a true refined title that learn and improve the error of the previous games and linking the best of Rorona and Totori... and the alchemy/crafting you are talking about is the same thing you can find in Mystery trilogy but with some new mechanic here and there, and yes, Lulua inside the lore of Arland trilogy don't make sense and the trilogy alredy end with Meruru. Nowaday no only Lulua has a good reception, as well Sophie, Firis and even Lidye and Suelle because since who know when people just complain about the time limite inside Atelier, the small portion of fans you refer are people that know and play Atelier since Rorona or even more if they know Japanese, Gust just became Atelier in other ordinary JRPG that you can find in any place. Nowaday Atelier has more fans and more people know about the serie thanks for the last 3 games and for that reason people love Lulua and the next game because Gust chance the way of create Atelier's games. If you like Lulua that is fine and I hope you continue buying more Atelier games after this, but in my opinion how an old fan Atelier already end.

 

I've played more than 4 Ateliers. I've played multiple ones via free trials with things like PS Now and Gamefly, including free trial on a former friend's account some years back since I had used mine in the past and he didn't care about it. Granted I have not played them all, but I've played and "seen" enough to form a valid opinion, including PS2 ones. The ones I haven't played (but plan to), I have watched others play. With my Gamefly trial I started Rorona, but I also played Rorona Plus during a PS Now trial sometime after that which I got a good ways in despite a game over and starting again. I started Ayesha during a trial, though don't remember where. Was not that far in though. Played Shallie and Escha & Logy via PS Now trials on friend account. The Mysterious trilogy was the first I bought as the Plus versions of Arland and Dusk trilogies I could not get for console and the non-Plus versions no longer available brand new, though Arland is now in DX collection which glad they released it here. So I own Sophie, Firis, and L&S. Totori, Meruru, Lydie & Suelle, and the spinoff Nelke are the only post-PS2 Ateliers I have never played, but I have watched Youtubers play. Nelke is on the way, and I plan to buy the Arland DX trilogy once I have an opening with fewer new physical games to get. So that's my background. Yesterday I noticed Lulua was not in your profile. I didn't call you out on it though since you could of hidden it, or you watched others play it, or played elsewhere.

 

Your statement about the alchemy is true and false. The alchemy in Lulua takes the best aspects from pre-Mysterious alchemy and Mysterious alchemy while getting rid of the less liked aspects like the grid in Mysterious trilogy, while adding new aspects. The new stuff is the biggest reason why the alchemy is so good in Lulua, especially awakened effects. Lulua is literally a "learned from what fans loved vs what was widely disliked" entry. No time limit is more commonly desired than a time limit among all fans. If we're only going by old school fans, a larger majority don't care if there's a time limit or not with no preference to one or the other, while a smaller portion prefers one or the other. I know which Youtubers and forum users are oldschool fans since they often say how long they've been playing. Some of the fans that have reviewed Lulua, calling it the best in the series, have played since the PS2 ones. The story/lore is the only thing I can see coming across as a cash grab. I can agree on that, which is why I pointed it out in last post. But regardless of opinion, the Arland trilogy is no longer a trilogy. It's now a quadrilogy, and Lulua is an Atelier. I personally don't play Atelier for the story, though I do love the character interactions and come to love certain characters and their individual story arcs, but gameplay takes priority for me and Lulua excels at that. The art style and gameplay are the 2 main reasons I love the series.

 

As for reception, you claim that every game in the Mysterious trilogy was well received. That's just not true. Sophie is widely considered a weak entry, Firis is mixed, with Lydie & Suelle the best received of the 3. You can see it in polls and general word of mouth, so not sure where you got the idea that every game in Mysterious trilogy got a good reception. Sophie is considered a good starting point for beginners due to it being easier, but aside from that is considered the weakest modern Atelier. One of the most confusing things in your reply is saying that Gust has turned the Atelier series into an ordinary jrpg you can find anywhere. This is far from a true statement. Getting bored with the usual jrpg (though I've recently gotten into the usual kind again) is part of the reason Atelier is one of my favorite series. It doesn't have the usual save the world from an evil villain plot, and it has the deepest/best crafting systems ever conceived in a video game, and even the way the game flows is different from the jrpg norm. How can you possibly say it's now the same as any ordinary jrpg you can find anywhere? JRPGs are one of my favorite genres. Atelier was and still is one, of the very few, more unique and non-typical jrpgs out there. Sry, but some of the things you say are baffling, and it saddens me if you plan to not get Lulua since the series needs all the support it can get so they continue to localize the series. :( But I suppose if you only play for story/lore and only like time limits, then I could see why you'd want to skip it. It's just awful you won't get to experience the best alchemy system in the series.

 

EDIT: Sry if I sound so confrontational. It's just Lulua doesn't deserve that kind of scorn to the point of calling it a joke and refusing to even try it. I'm not saying your opinion to not like it is wrong, just that some of the statements aren't true.

Edited by SweetieBelle85
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AlchemistWer Veteran

AlchemistWer

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2 hours ago, SweetieBelle85 said:

 

I've played more than 4 Ateliers. I've played multiple ones via free trials with things like PS Now and Gamefly, including free trial on a former friend's account some years back since I had used mine in the past and he didn't care about it. Granted I have not played them all, but I've played and "seen" enough to form a valid opinion, including PS2 ones. The ones I haven't played (but plan to), I have watched others play. With my Gamefly trial I started Rorona, but I also played Rorona Plus during a PS Now trial sometime after that which I got a good ways in despite a game over and starting again. I started Ayesha during a trial, though don't remember where. Was not that far in though. Played Shallie and Escha & Logy via PS Now trials on friend account. The Mysterious trilogy was the first I bought as the Plus versions of Arland and Dusk trilogies I could not get for console and the non-Plus versions no longer available brand new, though Arland is now in DX collection which glad they released it here. So I own Sophie, Firis, and L&S. Totori, Meruru, Lydie & Suelle, and the spinoff Nelke are the only post-PS2 Ateliers I have never played, but I have watched Youtubers play. Nelke is on the way, and I plan to buy the Arland DX trilogy once I have an opening with fewer new physical games to get. So that's my background. Yesterday I noticed Lulua was not in your profile. I didn't call you out on it though since you could of hidden it, or you watched others play it, or played elsewhere.

 

Your statement about the alchemy is true and false. The alchemy in Lulua takes the best aspects from pre-Mysterious alchemy and Mysterious alchemy while getting rid of the less liked aspects like the grid in Mysterious trilogy, while adding new aspects. The new stuff is the biggest reason why the alchemy is so good in Lulua, especially awakened effects. Lulua is literally a "learned from what fans loved vs what was widely disliked" entry. No time limit is more commonly desired than a time limit among all fans. If we're only going by old school fans, a larger majority don't care if there's a time limit or not with no preference to one or the other, while a smaller portion prefers one or the other. I know which Youtubers and forum users are oldschool fans since they often say how long they've been playing. Some of the fans that have reviewed Lulua, calling it the best in the series, have played since the PS2 ones. The story/lore is the only thing I can see coming across as a cash grab. I can agree on that, which is why I pointed it out in last post. But regardless of opinion, the Arland trilogy is no longer a trilogy. It's now a quadrilogy, and Lulua is an Atelier. I personally don't play Atelier for the story, though I do love the character interactions and come to love certain characters and their individual story arcs, but gameplay takes priority for me and Lulua excels at that. The art style and gameplay are the 2 main reasons I love the series.

 

As for reception, you claim that every game in the Mysterious trilogy was well received. That's just not true. Sophie is widely considered a weak entry, Firis is mixed, with Lydie & Suelle the best received of the 3. You can see it in polls and general word of mouth, so not sure where you got the idea that every game in Mysterious trilogy got a good reception. Sophie is considered a good starting point for beginners due to it being easier, but aside from that is considered the weakest modern Atelier. One of the most confusing things in your reply is saying that Gust has turned the Atelier series into an ordinary jrpg you can find anywhere. This is far from a true statement. Getting bored with the usual jrpg (though I've recently gotten into the usual kind again) is part of the reason Atelier is one of my favorite series. It doesn't have the usual save the world from an evil villain plot, and it has the deepest/best crafting systems ever conceived in a video game, and even the way the game flows is different from the jrpg norm. How can you possibly say it's now the same as any ordinary jrpg you can find anywhere? JRPGs are one of my favorite genres. Atelier was and still is one, of the very few, more unique and non-typical jrpgs out there. Sry, but some of the things you say are baffling, and it saddens me if you plan to not get Lulua since the series needs all the support it can get so they continue to localize the series. :( But I suppose if you only play for story/lore and only like time limits, then I could see why you'd want to skip it. It's just awful you won't get to experience the best alchemy system in the series.

 

EDIT: Sry if I sound so confrontational. It's just Lulua doesn't deserve that kind of scorn to the point of calling it a joke and refusing to even try it. I'm not saying your opinion to not like it is wrong, just that some of the statements aren't true.

 

I don't have Atelier Lulua either inside my hidden trophies or on my backlog, and if I buy Lulua could be when the price drop in physical store around here at least  50% of the price because I don't think buy it full price. I play Atelier no for story because I think that everybody know that it's not the force of the serie. Sophie earned the title the last year how best character vs all toher main protagonist of previous games and actually you can get a Sophie statue in Atelier Nelke for the 20 anniversarie of the serie with some other building, so Sophie here and in Japan (and some japanese friend think the same) if actually a game that a lot of people enjoy. Personally people don't think like I do and I don't pretend they do it, because nowaday the majority of the people who play Atelier enjoy the serie and is very funny how people that start with Sophie or any other mystery game wanna play old games and find Rorona or Totori horrible because need more strategy, time limite and need a better planification or walkthrough in order to see and do all.

 

I'm no annoyed with you, this is not the first time I talk about this kind of topic with someone else, if you want play PS2 games (mana or iris) do it, both saga are actually pure jrpg more a spin-off than a main games serie in my opinion  but in any case are fun, my favorite is Iris second game. I'm with you about the matter of love jrpg, actually I just play japanese game like you can see in my profile, and I'm among the first 50 platinum archivement in Lydie and Suelle and Meruru plus on PS4 because I always support the serie since 2010.

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SweetieBelle85 Rookie

SweetieBelle85

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Posted (edited)
On 6/9/2019 at 3:36 AM, AlchemistWer said:

 

I don't have Atelier Lulua either inside my hidden trophies or on my backlog, and if I buy Lulua could be when the price drop in physical store around here at least  50% of the price because I don't think buy it full price. I play Atelier no for story because I think that everybody know that it's not the force of the serie. Sophie earned the title the last year how best character vs all toher main protagonist of previous games and actually you can get a Sophie statue in Atelier Nelke for the 20 anniversarie of the serie with some other building, so Sophie here and in Japan (and some japanese friend think the same) if actually a game that a lot of people enjoy. Personally people don't think like I do and I don't pretend they do it, because nowaday the majority of the people who play Atelier enjoy the serie and is very funny how people that start with Sophie or any other mystery game wanna play old games and find Rorona or Totori horrible because need more strategy, time limite and need a better planification or walkthrough in order to see and do all.

 

I'm no annoyed with you, this is not the first time I talk about this kind of topic with someone else, if you want play PS2 games (mana or iris) do it, both saga are actually pure jrpg more a spin-off than a main games serie in my opinion  but in any case are fun, my favorite is Iris second game. I'm with you about the matter of love jrpg, actually I just play japanese game like you can see in my profile, and I'm among the first 50 platinum archivement in Lydie and Suelle and Meruru plus on PS4 because I always support the serie since 2010.

 

Yes, you're right, Sophie is a popular character, but I was talking about games. She's almost universally loved among fans, but the game she is in is not. Sophie is the least liked of modern Ateliers due to how basic it is, though of course there will always be some people that liked it more than the others. Polls will usually have Sophie ranked lowest, Firis next, then Lydie & Suelle as the best. Some polls will have Firis as the least liked, with Sophie next, then Lydie & Suelle as best. This is going by games, not character. Sophie is never the most liked as a game. Here are links to 2 of these polls. You can love a character but find the game they are in is mediocre. You can find more rankings than the 2 I list here. Sophie is usually behind Firis and L&S in rankings, as a game. As a character though, Sophie often tops rankings. I loved Sophie as a game and character, and plan to go back to platinum it, but it's my least favorite of the modern Ateliers.

 

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/210987-atelier-lydie-and-suelle-the-alchemists-and-the-mysterious/76611992

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/210987-atelier-lydie-and-suelle-the-alchemists-and-the-mysterious/76468355

Edited by SweetieBelle85
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Sun_emperor1 Collaborator

Sun_emperor1

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personaly i consider lulua to be one of the 2 worst ateliers (shared with sophie), reason for lulua to not reaching a likeable level to me is that considering it being a future installment of the arland trilogy it takes NO risk, for example they dance around that characters dont know who her dad is

Spoiler

but gust chickens out and avoids any conflict by just revealing that theres no dad.

i dont really like the characters at all, they are shallow blank states that could be replaced by many characters from previous installments and noone would notice. the only "innovation" to cutscenes is that people do random things in the background for comedic effect doing some of the talky scenes.
Lastly,

Spoiler

 

worst of the story is that luluas mid-late game motivation is EXTREMELY shoehorned in as she has 1 motivation, to save someone she has known for 1 whole minute and she is willing to go to any length as if this person she wanna save is her only reason to exist.


 

 

for the alchemy, i always like how the alchemy is changed to keep the gameplay lively for each atelier but in this title the bold new core to this is that its just become much easier to get 999 quality on crafted items, granted this title actualy wants you to make such items, but it has been possible in ealier installments and 999 quality doesnt do much to gameplay in this title unless you count the curry ending.

 

ultimately i agree with wer that its just a cashgrab on arland.

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AlchemistWer Veteran

AlchemistWer

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sun_emperor1 said:

personaly i consider lulua to be one of the 2 worst ateliers (shared with sophie), reason for lulua to not reaching a likeable level to me is that considering it being a future installment of the arland trilogy it takes NO risk, for example they dance around that characters dont know who her dad is

  Reveal hidden contents

but gust chickens out and avoids any conflict by just revealing that theres no dad.

i dont really like the characters at all, they are shallow blank states that could be replaced by many characters from previous installments and noone would notice. the only "innovation" to cutscenes is that people do random things in the background for comedic effect doing some of the talky scenes.
Lastly,

  Reveal hidden contents

 

worst of the story is that luluas mid-late game motivation is EXTREMELY shoehorned in as she has 1 motivation, to save someone she has known for 1 whole minute and she is willing to go to any length as if this person she wanna save is her only reason to exist.

 

 

 

 

 

for the alchemy, i always like how the alchemy is changed to keep the gameplay lively for each atelier but in this title the bold new core to this is that its just become much easier to get 999 quality on crafted items, granted this title actualy wants you to make such items, but it has been possible in ealier installments and 999 quality doesnt do much to gameplay in this title unless you count the curry ending.

 

ultimately i agree with wer that its just a cashgrab on arland.

 

Thanks dude, usually people who start with Mystery serie don't have any problem with Lulua or Sophie because now people play more atelier after Gust take away the time limite and don't touch or simply don't like any other Arland game for that reason, Arland is the best trilogy and Meruru take the best of Rorona and Totori in a single game. The last couple of week I told with a friend about the age comparation among Atelier Rorona, Totori, Meruru and Lulua and it no make sense.

The dad factor is obvious because we are talking about a japanese game and they must keep the essence of Rorona and not become her in something impure and even when fans in Japan ask about it Gust said "don't worry about it" unfortunately I don't have the link.

 

Edited by AlchemistWer
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