BlindMango

The Proposal to Fixing the Platinum Trophy: The Ribbon System

Ribbon of Effort Percentage   457 members have voted

  1. 1. What should be the MAX percent limit for the Ribbon of Effort? (For example, '75%' means any platinum trophy you earn with a 0% - 75% rarity gets you a ribbon)

    • 75% (If set this high, it would include most games that take hours to complete while still excluding all games which take minutes)
      178
    • 70%
      29
    • 65%
      17
    • 60%
      45
    • 55%
      13
    • 50% (If set this low, games like Spider-Man won't get a Ribbon of Effort)
      175

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342 posts in this topic

I think it should stay at 75%. There are a lot of cases where people can skip through cutscenes and shave off hours of time. For example, I played Steins Gate when it was free on PS+(great game). Without skipping anything It took me around 30 hours, but I am fully aware you could skip an incredible story and do it in a few hours. I think the number up to 75% is a good choice because of cases like this. 

The system seems to want to stop quick plats, not easy ones.

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Posted (edited)

There should be a ribbon of effort for 0.01% and a ribbon of rarity for being the only person with the plat.

 

Who's with me?

 

That way we can truely see who has put effort in games

Edited by NekoRave
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49 minutes ago, NekoRave said:

There should be a ribbon of effort for 0.01% and a ribbon of rarity for being the only person with the plat.

 

Who's with me?

 

That way we can truely see who has put effort in games

No sense, there does not exist a game that can stick with a 0.01% for more than a month (if someone finds out it is possible, more will then come to do it as well), not to mention that the amount of achievers is already broken and games that are impossible still display some achievers.

It is better a 3rd ribbon for 0.50%, or max 1%, although I'd prefer the first one.

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6 minutes ago, VirtualNight said:

No sense, there does not exist a game that can stick with a 0.01% for more than a month (if someone finds out it is possible, more will then come to do it as well), not to mention that the amount of achievers is already broken and games that are impossible still display some achievers.

It is better a 3rd ribbon for 0.50%, or max 1%, although I'd prefer the first one.

Nah I'm if you don't do 0.01% you haven't put any effort in that game.

 

Once the game goes above 0.01% it's an EZPZ imo.

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10 minutes ago, NekoRave said:

Nah I'm if you don't do 0.01% you haven't put any effort in that game.

 

Once the game goes above 0.01% it's an EZPZ imo.

I don't think it is how a toxic sees that, they get just triggered from ultra rare trophies earned by others, then it doesn't matter if it is a 0.01% or 4%, so my idea could be good.

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I like the feature, but I don't expect it to be actually implemented by AT LEAST 2025.... and that's being generous. 

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3 minutes ago, VirtualNight said:

I don't think it is how a toxic sees that, they get just triggered from ultra rare trophies earned by others, then it doesn't matter if it is a 0.01% or 4%, so my idea could be good.

Eh it's their site if people like ribbons then cool I'm not for or against it.

 

I have my own retro badges system so everyone can enjoy stuff however they want imo

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Posted (edited)

Why not create a leaderboard based on the grades of rarity this site has agreed on.

 

Ultra Rare Plat    = Platinum Ribbon

Very Rare Plat    = Gold Ribbon

Rare Plat            = Silver Ribbon

Uncommon Plat  = Bronze Ribbon (maybe tweak the % to 75 or whatever people vote for)

Common Plat      = (Above 75 %) A BIG FAT NOTHING

 

Then make a RIBBON leaderboard based on the current trophy values (180 - 90 - 30 - 15) or whatever values are agreed on.

With a leaderboard like this people who play hard or timeconsuming games will benefit while the ezpz players won't even enter the leaderboard.

 

Based on my own Profile I would score (out of 250 Platinums):

 

1 Plat

13 Gold

23 Silver

101 Bronze

 

Is this a good idea for a Rarity based leaderboard? I think so

Edited by dzstrpc
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9 hours ago, GravityQueeen said:

We need to be careful when it comes to implementing even more ribbons, like the mentioned "Series Completed" one. I liked the idea, but the initial profile page needs to reflect the more important and meaningfull aspects of a gamer/trophy hunter in detriment of more subjective aspects. Others trophy tracking websites have tons of ribbons awarded by completing innumerous tasks, and if psnp goes in that direction, I think it's kinda obvious that the ribbons would need their own page or space, like Level History or Stats, for example. Anyway, I think we are in the right direction because all this is being discussed by the psnp community.  

 

This thread title: "Fixing the platinum trophy". Why? Was it broken? It's completely oppinion based. To me platinum trophies and trophy hunting itself was never destroyed by the increasing number of easy and many times shity games being released on psn store, but that's my oppinion. Also, the current title refers only to the Effort Ribbon and not to the Rarity Ribbon. Change the thread tittle to simply "Ribbon System". 

 

I agree the number of ribbons probably shouldn't go much higher beyond 2, as otherwise the whole point of them is diminished. Adding one in the future for 100% or non-plat games would make sense but beyond that there could be things in the sidebar for series completed and things like that I bet. Also the thread title refers to how platinum trophies used to be a fantastic 'at a glance' symbol for looking at effort, and how they aren't anymore.

 

7 hours ago, Danny_Johansen said:

@BlindMango

Any chance of allowing 100% games to give Ribbons of rarity? There are a lot of games without a platinum that take more effort than games with a platinum.

 

That could be looked into, but may get added in a third ribbon for if you get 100% in both no plat games and games with platinum below 5% or something

 

7 hours ago, AlchemistWer said:

So, even if a game requiere more than 100+ hours in order to earn the platinum like YS games, Persona, Trails of Cold, Tales of Zestiria, grace or even Sword art online hollow realization, etc., those games go inside the category of the ribbon of effort? if I'm correct 75% is very high. For example Tales of Grace need at least 110 hours in order to earn all, hollow realiziation is a grind hell game and even Persona 4 and 5 that are actually easy games demand a lot of time and the rarity is 6% and almost 10%. Maybe a good percentage could be 50% or maybe less in my opinion to get a ribbon of effort... Because a lot of game that no requiere a lot effort with around just 30 hours to earnd all playing on easy difficulty like Atelier Firis has 27% of rarity (uncommon).

 

Maybe another ribbon could be a good choice, maybe with a range between 5% to 15%, because I can't put together two games inside the same ribbon system when one of them demand more effort, time and investigation (read walktrough, forums, trophy guide, a lot of missables, etc.)

 

30 hours still takes a lot of effort, and platinum trophies have been like this since the beginning. So even though you'd have platinums that took 30 hours and others that took 100+ hours they are still a staggering difference from ones that take 15 minutes

 

7 hours ago, Cleggworth said:

 

In addition to my previous comment. Why doesn't this statement apply to the average rarity stat? It appeared on the profile as a stat to cover exactly the same as this does. "Easy trophies Vs hard trophies" yet everybody got their knickers in a twist about dlc rarity so now we've got a completely made up number for all dlc trophies. Why not change that back to what it should be and say "deal with it" to them?

 

The average rarity stat barely moved if you had over a certain number of trophies and most people hovered around the same general spot so it was actually hard for most people to interpret and most people didn't find a use for it because of that. For example, you could have 1000 quality platinum trophies then get 100 platinums that are at 90% rarity and it still wouldn't adjust much generally.

 

1 hour ago, Velvet said:

Hi Mango ^-^

 

Ok so firstly, I don't think this is a horrible idea, just in case that's how the below comes off, lol (it's still early, coffee hasn't hit yet). I do think this might open up a bit of a can of worms, though. Two ribbons to start, then down the road you're going to find yourself 20 ribbons deep to keep all bases covered. This is a clear response to Ratalaika, Sometimes You, and even in a way, Lightwood Games, with a much higher emphasis on the first one. It's okay, we all know it, we're all thinking it, we can say it. I get the frustration of having to load multiple lists for one game and I understand people's annoyances with those who like to stack games for platinums, but I still stand by the "to each their own" statement (easy to say as someone who doesn't care about leaderboards, though).

 

If this does get implemented, I personally am not a fan of it being on the trophy bar. Just as our rare trophies are in their own widget, I personally think the ribbons should be in their own as well. Away from the general trophy stats that are shown on the trophy bar. The bar as is right now is clean with everything clear as to what it pertains to. Adding ribbons might clutter it up a bit as well as cause some confusion to those not active on the forums, new trophy hunters, people who see the cards posted on other sites, etc etc etc. You can even put an additional box on the member's forum profile pages with all the other stats on there. Just my two cents on that. 

 

Obscure games. My bebes ☹️. These will by default most likely have a higher % rarity based solely on them being unknown and not many people showing interest in them, but that doesn't mean they were easy. How would that be handled? The sole 5 players could have the platinum in an unknown little indie title, but it could take them 20-30+ hours to complete and even be given a high difficulty rating. Millions of people can buy TT games, Spider-Man, and the sorts, and because there is a large # of players, the chances of the rarity % being lower is much higher. I'm wondering if there will be a counter-balance to that? If this is meant to show that "hey I did this difficult thing", sometimes the rarity % doesn't always tell the whole story. 

 

Then you have the games that are "easy because it has a guide", and I'm going to use Warlock's Tower for this as it's the perfect example. With a guide, the game takes maybe an hour to complete. EZPZ. Without one, though, that game is definitely not easy and would not have nearly as many platinum earners. So sometimes it's not the game itself that is easy, but the help that was provided for said game. Those will still remain in the same boat though, I assume? 

 

I have other questions, but again, coffee, lol. 

 

The reason it would go in the trophy bar is because it's directly being compared to platinum trophy count, so you'd want them as close to the platinum trophy count as possible and want it to be the same size, though I stated in an earlier post a vertical line could be put in-between the trophies and ribbons to divide them: R R  |  T T T T

 

Obscure games and games made easier with guides fall into the reasoning for setting it at a certain percentage. You will want your ribbon of effort count to be different from the start to never dissuade you from playing those games. You will always have your outliers and exceptions, however making the ruleset more complex and allowing some games while not allowing others on a selective basis wouldn't make the set percent clear anymore for anyone and everyone looking at it.

 

Nearly every game is made significantly easier with guides, for example most of us consult a guide to considerably cut down on mindlessly running around a 4 mile wide map to find 100 collectibles, but if all trophies in a game are made significantly easier with a guide and there are none that rely on time, skill, or difficulty, then it will happen that the majority of earners will push that game over 75% average rarity.

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You already excluded a giant group by making the default rarity that of PSNProfiles and not that of PSN Sony.
Including the default group of gamers would add a lot more rarity to the trophies in general.

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2 hours ago, Rally-Vincent--- said:

This is just a feature to cater those who cannot find satisfaction in their own games and playstyle, but only by distiguishing themselves from others. Isn't it enough that 80% of all the drama and bickering on the forums has to do with looking down on how others play? Does there need to be another source for the same kind of drama?

 

It is just three clicks to see the trophy log sorted by UR platinums, if it is so damn important to see that stat.

 

Distinguishing from the others is why trophy system exists. Game completion data could be invisible and yet it was made into public "trophies" with gold-silver-bronze hierarchy, both lifted from competitive sport events. It's okay to have "all players are equal" mindset, but why bother with trophies then?

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Ezpz's are a problem in the trophy community. But then again, UR elitism is also a problem. I think the sub 75% ribbons are a great compromise. 

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Posted (edited)

In principle, this is a great idea. My main query would be... why you don't push it further with more distinctions?

 

 I'm in work so I've only read through quickly, but it only appears to distinguish the two extremes; ultra rare and ultra common. Accounting for the full spectrum from 0.1 - 75% (or whatever that latter end is) would be cooler, IMO (also the word effort is ick). 

 

I'd personally propose the following:

Ribbon of Completion (51 - 75%)

Ribbon of Excellence (21 - 50%)

Ribbon of Distinction (5 - 20%)

Ribbon of Dominance (<5%)

 

How its implemented etc. is absolutely fine as is. As I said, overall its a very decent idea, it just seems like it could be taken further and have more value. 

 

Edited by PhantomFear94
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I think the ribbon system is a decent idea with a few small issues that need to be ironed out a little. The ribbon system would be a great way to incentivise not giving into the dark temptation of easy games and give everyone a new shiny thing to collect, if they want to.

 

The effort ribbon is the ribbon that seems the most thought out. I believe its purpose is to show people taking a cursory glance at your profile if you play a lot easy plat games or not. I feel most games that require a good amount of effort, time and/or skill will have a platinum under 50% rarity. You could lower the rarity limit to 40% or 30% and the effort ribbon would still hold up well. The only games really negatively effected 50% maximum are Visual Novels, walking simulators and press buttons to not die games; they're border free plats in most cases (especially with a guide (not shaming anyone but myself a little)) but the stigma around these types of games already exists and won't go away. Some titles like Spiderman and Spyro have high platinums rate and require effort will not always make the ribbon cut. It's sad if that some games won't make it but you have to draw they line somewhere and stick to it.

 

1 hour ago, Velvet said:

Obscure games. My bebes ☹️. These will by default most likely have a higher % rarity based solely on them being unknown and not many people showing interest in them, but that doesn't mean they were easy. How would that be handled? The sole 5 players could have the platinum in an unknown little indie title, but it could take them 20-30+ hours to complete and even be given a high difficulty rating. Millions of people can buy TT games, Spider-Man, and the sorts, and because there is a large # of players, the chances of the rarity % being lower is much higher. I'm wondering if there will be a counter-balance to that? If this is meant to show that "hey I did this difficult thing", sometimes the rarity % doesn't always tell the whole story. 

The rarity ribbon is a good idea with a few issues with it. Rarity and difficulty are not the same thing but often go hand in hand. I've found that more popular titles tend to have low platinum rates even if they're relatively easy to obtain because most of the players don't bother or are not trophy hunters. Like Ms.Velvet said, more obscure games tend to have higher platinum rates because the players tend to more dedicated to completing those types of games. The rarity system is a system that shows how rare a trophy is between the people who play it, it's no always an accurate way of showing how difficult a game or the games trophies are. I can't fault the rarity system for working how it's intended to work but it's sucks that difficult obscure games wouldn't be able to have rarity ribbons because either everyone is too go or it doesn't have the playerbase to support rarity ribbons; a game would need a minimum of 20 players to have a rarity ribbon and only one player could earn the platinum or else nobody gets the rarity ribbon. The only solution to this problem that players of games with extremely small playerbases (50 is the most I personally would allow) get both ribbons just for getting the platinum.

 

1 hour ago, Velvet said:

If this does get implemented, I personally am not a fan of it being on the trophy bar. Just as our rare trophies are in their own widget, I personally think the ribbons should be in their own as well. Away from the general trophy stats that are shown on the trophy bar. The bar as is right now is clean with everything clear as to what it pertains to. Adding ribbons might clutter it up a bit as well as cause some confusion to those not active on the forums, new trophy hunters, people who see the cards posted on other sites, etc etc etc. You can even put an additional box on the member's forum profile pages with all the other stats on there. Just my two cents on that. 

I agree with Ms.Velvet that ribbons should not be displayed on the profile bar and trophy cards. I think the trophy cards are already have too much on them and ribbons would just make it worse. The profile bar is a very convenient spot but with just the two ribbons that that have already been proposed, it already looks cluttered. Like @Velvet said, they should be a side widget. It would look better then on the profile more, there is more room to add new ones, the information can be found easily and won't the uninterested to look at all the ribbons. The idea how having a ribbon tell you what it means when you hover your mouse over it would clear up a lot of the confusion.

 

2 hours ago, Rally-Vincent--- said:

This is just a feature to cater those who cannot find satisfaction in their own games and playstyle, but only by distiguishing themselves from others. Isn't it enough that 80% of all the drama and bickering on the forums has to do with looking down on how others play? Does there need to be another source for the same kind of drama?

It is just three clicks to see the trophy log sorted by UR platinums, if it is so damn important to see that stat.

Trophy hunting is like a good RPG, there is no TRUE way you have to play it. You can take multiple approaches to trophy hunting. Some methods are better than others but none are 100% worng. People will always have different opinions trophy hunting and bully others that disagree. Adding ribbons will only makes certain method of trophy hunting more rewarding. Adding the feature won't cause more bullying because people can already bully you for playing easy trophy games; it just takes more effort on the bully's part currently. Your always allowed to politely, yet firmly, to f- leave if they're being a meanie.

 

4 minutes ago, GooeyChew said:

Stacks!?!

Stack are a big issue and I honestly don't know how I feel about them. I have stacked a few games in the past; different consoles, not any thing too extreme like every region and no auto-poppers.From a technical side, I think it would be a little hard to program for stacks and might throw a spanner in works. As far as the ribbon system goes, stacks should count in my opinion just to keep it simple.

 

Overall, this possible new feature excites me. I hope it gets added in the future. I really like the way of the system was originally suggested but I'm fine and dandy with the other way a few people proposed it should work.

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A ribbon still won't make me care about other people's trophies, or make me care about what they think of mine, so do what you feel, I guess.

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3 minutes ago, morg106 said:

A ribbon still won't make me care about other people's trophies, or make me care about what they think of mine, so do what you feel, I guess.

You don't care about my trophies..... But look how many ribbons I have.

 

Notice me senpai

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29 minutes ago, SixyLove said:

a game would need a minimum of 20 players to have a rarity ribbon and only one player could earn the platinum or else nobody gets the rarity ribbon. The only solution to this problem that players of games with extremely small playerbases (50 is the most I personally would allow) get both ribbons just for getting the platinum.

 

I like this as a compromise. The problem itself is that of a small one that won't effect many people, admittedly, but doing something like this would help. Even something along the lines of "the game won't be added to the eligibility list for x days from release" or something. I know it's more work to setup, but just something for the staff to think about. Better to get it all out on the table and whatnot.

 

1 hour ago, BlindMango said:

The reason it would go in the trophy bar is because it's directly being compared to platinum trophy count, so you'd want them as close to the platinum trophy count as possible and want it to be the same size, though I stated in an earlier post a vertical line could be put in-between the trophies and ribbons to divide them: R R  |  T T T T

 

Fair play on this. I'll sit at the table of the minority that would like the option to turn it off/on if possible, even if it's a Premium member only feature. 

 

24 minutes ago, Tomy_IV said:

People with more commons then anything else on theyr account will be ageinst this ofc. And those who stacks countless of ratalaika games. IM 100% down for this. Make it happen! 

 

I have more commons than anything else on my account and I'm not fully against this. I have stacked Ratalaika games and I'm still not fully against this. I just think there's a lot of gray area. If the cut off is at 50%, I'll be looking at about a number of 152-ish for the rarity ribbon, which I won't complain about. I'm more on board with there being leaderboards added before the ribbons are, as those will let you guys fight among yourselves for those top spots while letting the more casual trophy hunters do our thing, but if ribbons are being added, they need to be discussed, which is what is happening with those for and against them. 

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