Should Big Leagues be a flaggable trophy?

[freddie1989]

4 minutes ago, WassupDawg88 said:

I'm not 100% sure but AFAIK truetrophies and trueachievements have the same administration.

So my guess that they both ignore the messed up trophies\achievements for CoD: BO2 and CoD: WaW.

 

Fair play to them for doing that. It is personally how I think it should be but I doubt things will change on this front.

[freddie1989]

Just now, B1rvine said:

 

His list was autopopped by a hacker, which is literally what every dispute for this game is about. Since he had just started the game, no trophies had been unlocked yet, so he went from 0% to 100% in about 5 minutes. He went on to report other autopopped lists, the difference being not as many.

 

 

I thought they could only pop the online elements of the game as opposed to the whole lot. I guess that would make it more obvious who cheats and who doesn't.

[WassupDawg88]

23 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

 

Well, it's a really sticky subject. I understand both sides of the argument people make, the "not my fault' vs 'not fair for us totally legitimate people'. Not too long ago a guy had a 100% BO2 list in literally 5 minutes total, and was the fastest achiever. He was flagged, then decided to flag other people for the 'same reason.' It wouldn't be right to pick and choose.

I'm fully with the "not fair for us totally legitimate people" side. One should not get the same for 5 minutes while the other spent a week\month\year to achieve it. But within reasonable range.

If player gets the whole list within minutes then it's a flag without a doubt.

But if the only trophy you need cannot be obtained due to server closure and it requires you to do very little to get it I just thought whitelisting it would be not so bad of idea.

Of course it there's a half-legal way to get it without using some network apps or loading others' saves.

Edited October 29, 2019 by WassupDawg88
Missed some words :)

[B1rvine]

4 minutes ago, freddie1989 said:

I thought they could only pop the online elements of the game as opposed to the whole lot. I guess that would make it more obvious who cheats and who doesn't.

 

No, cheaters who play this game have a mod menu installed, with button that instantly unlocks all remaining trophies for everyone in the match as them. Its extremely common to run into them. More than likely, most people aren't at fault who autopop trophies, but its impossible to know for sure 99% of the time.

 

The point of this thread is people want to "allow" Big Leagues (which can't be earned naturally anymore) to be legal IF its the last trophy, by a modder.

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by B1rvine

[freddie1989]

8 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

 

No, cheaters who play this game have a mod menu installed, with button that instantly unlocks all remaining trophies for everyone in the match as them. Its extremely common to run into them. More than likely, most people aren't at fault who autopop trophies, but its impossible to know for sure 99% of the time.

 

The point of this thread is people want to "allow" Big Leagues (which can't be earned naturally anymore) to be legal IF its the last trophy, by a modder.

 

 

So at this point in time then even if this thread was given the go ahead you would have to take a massive risk getting everything but that one trophy. Such a shame because I have never even played the campaign on this one due to this (I think my brother started it hence it is on my list).

[B1rvine]

33 minutes ago, freddie1989 said:

So at this point in time then even if this thread was given the go ahead you would have to take a massive risk getting everything but that one trophy. Such a shame because I have never even played the campaign on this one due to this (I think my brother started it hence it is on my list).

 

If you don't sync your trophies after a modder unlocks them (by deleting your profile on your console, and then readding it) all of the illegitimate trophies are erased. As of right now, this thread is just a petition, nothing else. There's really not a good solution for dealing with cheaters on this game, people will be unhappy either way.

 

This is what you're up against in about 25% of the matches:

 

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, WassupDawg88 said:

One should not get the same for 5 minutes while the other spent a week\month\year to achieve it. But within reasonable range.

 

The problem is a bit more complex than that though.

 

Person 1: Earned Big Leagues a long time ago legitimately, takes 4 years to earn all other trophies legitimately.

Person 2: Earned 25% legitimately over 6 months, then all remaining trophies get hacked in a year later, total 100% time is 1.5 years.

Person 1 flags person 2.

 

Person 3: Earned all trophies legit, except Big Leagues gets autopopped by a modder.

Person 4: Earned Big Leagues legit, but had a few regular trophies autopopped by a modder.

Person 4 flags person 3.

 

Person 1 Flags person 4.

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by B1rvine

[ArmoredSnowman]

58 minutes ago, freddie1989 said:

 

I thought they could only pop the online elements of the game as opposed to the whole lot. I guess that would make it more obvious who cheats and who doesn't.

All trophies will pop except Origins DLC (afaik). I feel Potent had a good idea though. If BL is the last trophy needed, then who really cares? But if someone starts the game now, and is a member of PSNP, then they should have already took precautions on the chance this would happen, considering some trophies require coop to achieve. The point of the matter is, with the current state of the game, menus no longer need to be activated from a computer, but can be used from theater mode infections. One would assume they pop trophies just the same. So the real question is: When is it deemed 'part of the game' rather than 'external maliciousness'? I support the idea of a whitelist, for games like this and that one trophy from GTA V, but one the bright side, the Black Ops series' plats are fully achievable.

[B1rvine]

7 hours ago, ArmoredSnowman said:

If BL is the last trophy needed, then who really cares?

 

Again, there's always going to be someone with a problem, or unhappy no matter where the line is drawn. It sure would suck to be the guy who got unlucky with it being the 3rd or 2nd to last trophy.

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by B1rvine

[WassupDawg88]

57 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

 

If you don't sync your trophies after a modder unlocks them (by deleting your profile on your console, and then readding it) all of the illegitimate trophies are erased. As of right now, this thread is just a petition, nothing else. There's really not a good solution for dealing with cheaters on this game, people will be unhappy either way.

 

This is what you're up against in about 25% of the matches:

 

 

 

 

 

The problem is a bit more complex than that though.

 

Person 1: Earned Big Leagues a long time ago legitimately, takes 4 years to earn all other trophies legitimately.

Person 2: Earned 25% legitimately over 6 months, then all remaining trophies get hacked in a year later, total 100% time is 1.5 years.

Person 1 flags person 2.

 

Person 3: Earned all trophies legit, except Big Leagues gets autopopped by a modder.

Person 4: Earned Big Leagues legit, but had a few regular trophies autopopped by a modder.

Person 4 flags person 3.

 

Person 1 Flags person 4.

 

I'd flag Person 2 and Person 4.

My point is in making this exception only for unobtainable trophies.

Like if Person 5 gets 97% of list legit but some modder gives him Big Leagues AND another regular trophy this person should be flagged as well.

[Ghobimon]

As I said earlier, I can see reason to complain on both sides, and the only real reason people complain is because exceptions have been made for other games. We used DNS applications to get Saints Row trophies, we allowed RDR XP glitches when those were a thing, with quite a few other examples, these exceptions exist because we as a community chose to allow them.

 

Along the thread you'll see some people claiming that this shouldn't be treated any differently from other unobtainable trophies, except this isn't anything like those games, we're talking about the 6th most popular game on the site with somewhat still functional servers. This thread however is not about those who get flagged for auto-popping their whole list, intentional or not, this is strictly about Big Leagues.

 

31 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

The problem is a bit more complex than that though.

 

Indeed it is. Ideally, we want to satisfy those who got the trophy legitimately within the timeframe, those who've put the effort to go through their list after the league play shutdown just to be left at 98%, and somehow deal with the consistent spam of BO2 disputes. Sounds impossible, although...

 

For those who got BL trophy before the league play feature removal, this is no different then what we allow in Saints Row series.

For those who got their lists at 98%, popping BL trophy in a multiplayer match should be ok (in my opinion).

For those who auto-pop more than BL trophy, I think flagging and hiding game as we've been doing is the right approach.

 

This whole thread will have the same fate as all the others about the matter, until someone decides to create a community poll of some sort.

 

 

 

[freddie1989]

36 minutes ago, ArmoredSnowman said:

All trophies will pop except Origins DLC (afaik). I feel Potent had a good idea though. If BL is the last trophy needed, then who really cares? But if someone starts the game now, and is a member of PSNP, then they should have already took precautions on the chance this would happen, considering some trophies require coop to achieve. The point of the matter is, with the current state of the game, menus no longer need to be activated from a computer, but can be used from theater mode infections. One would assume they pop trophies just the same. So the real question is: When is it deemed 'part of the game' rather than 'external maliciousness'? I support the idea of a whitelist, for games like this and that one trophy from GTA V, but one the bright side, the Black Ops series' plats are fully achievable.

 

I am totally with you, who cares. Problem is there will be always be someone complaining about their rarity or some crap due to this. The things that don't bother most seem to bother some.

[Alihsan621]

5 minutes ago, freddie1989 said:

 

I am totally with you, who cares. Problem is there will be always be someone complaining about their rarity or some crap due to this. The things that don't bother most seem to bother some.

I think the rarity wouldn't be affected at all. Because you'd have to complete every DLC plus base game to only unlock BL, and I don't think that (if we allow popping only BL) 100000 Players Are going to complete the whole game that easiely. 

I'm in this Situation too, I'm sitting at 98% with every trophy beeing unlocked except for BL.

[freddie1989]

2 minutes ago, Alihsan621 said:

I think the rarity wouldn't be affected at all. Because you'd have to complete every DLC plus base game to only unlock BL, and I don't think that (if we allow popping only BL) 100000 Players Are going to complete the whole game that easiely. 

I'm in this Situation too, I'm sitting at 98% with every trophy beeing unlocked except for BL.

 

For me dude I really aren't bothered either way. I just want to go back to this game at some point and right now there is no point.

[ArmoredSnowman]

11 hours ago, Alihsan621 said:

and I don't think that (if we allow popping only BL) 100000 Players Are going to complete the whole game that easiely. 

Indeed, considering that requires doing multiple easter eggs and miscellaneous zombie trophies. 

[JamesCapitalll]

I just don't play this game because of this trophy, it is my favorite call of duty, I would be very happy if it is released to get all the trophies and last or bugged league trophy

 

 

 

[Kal2210]

If “Big Leagues” was a difficult trophy that people put significant effort towards obtaining I would understand the hesitance. Given how simple it was though, I don’t see a reason why it shouldn’t be whitelisted if that’s the only thing unlocked. You’d have to put in significant effort to ensure that you don’t run into modders and have all trophies auto pop so it’s not really an easy way out.

[SeedersPhD]

Whitelisting Big Leagues starts a slippery slope of whitelisting easy but glitched/impossible trophies so I think we should keep it flaggable. Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational is impossible because of one online trophy, so should we whitelist that? How about Toy Soldiers War Chest, that has one impossible trophy so should we force players to screenshot their progress and whitelist that? Army of Two: The 40th Day no longer has the mask editor so that platinum is impossible, should we whitelist that? Sure, it's not exactly great that the platinum is unobtainable because of one dumb trophy, but if we let this go now, then people are just gonna beg for others to be whitelisted and it's wiser just to put our foot down now before people start justifying hacking for all the broken games and it becomes an epidemic.

 

I can already see the threads now. "So since Big Leagues is whitelisted, how about DIY PMC/ Daily Participant/ etc.?"

[Zedd-man]

Free big leagues!!

[TheLakota]

2 hours ago, SeedersPhD said:

Sure, it's not exactly great that the platinum is unobtainable because of one dumb trophy, but if we let this go now, then people are just gonna beg for others to be whitelisted...

 

In comparison BO2, how many threads on psnprofiles concern unobtainable platinums in Hot Shots, Army of Two or Toy Soldiers?

 

That was a rhetorical question, so I'll answer for you: not many.

 

If we're going to invoke the "slippery slope" argument as a means to shut down conversation, let's at least make sure the evidence supports our assertion. 

[SeedersPhD]

7 hours ago, TheLakota said:

 

In comparison BO2, how many threads on psnprofiles concern unobtainable platinums in Hot Shots, Army of Two or Toy Soldiers?

 

That was a rhetorical question, so I'll answer for you: not many.

 

If we're going to invoke the "slippery slope" argument as a means to shut down conversation, let's at least make sure the evidence supports our assertion. 

 

That's because everyone there is smart enough to know the answer is "no, cheating for this trophy will get me flagged", but everyone seems to make a big stink about Big Leagues because some people got flagged for it and tried to make a case for it being whitelisted instead of just hiding the game and people fell for it for some reason. But if we let this one go, then the other threads will follow. And I can't blame them, what makes whitelisting Big Leagues or Hot Shots Golf's Daily Participant any different? Nothing, that's what (especially since the Hot Shots Golf platinum is a harder platinum locked behind an easier online trophy).

 

If we're going to get cocky, at least attempt to use your critical thinking skills and think about how this might affect the site going forward instead of just looking at the lack of threads in the present (especially since I said those threads will come, not are here).

[Alihsan621]

12 hours ago, SeedersPhD said:

Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational  Toy Soldiers War Chest, 

What the heck are those games 

 

2 hours ago, SeedersPhD said:

 

That's because everyone there is smart enough to know the answer is "no, cheating for this trophy will get me flagged", but everyone seems to make a big stink about Big Leagues because some people got flagged for it and tried to make a case for it being whitelisted instead of just hiding the game and people fell for it for some reason. But if we let this one go, then the other threads will follow. 

That's wrong. People who had a dispute about BO2 had their whole trophy list auto popped. Ofc it's flaggable to have 91 trophies unlocked in 2 minutes. But these people aren't the ones who argue about Big Leagues, because it wouldn't Change anything if 1 of their 91 hacked trophies is whitelisted or not. You didn't get the point, Sir 

[Bumperklever]

After reading a bit, the strongest point I read in favor of whitelisting is that other sites do it as well, in case of "evolving the rules". Most other reasoning comes into the line of, "please give me, it's easy..." That being said the side that says that it needs to be retained got various good/better points which I agree on.

 

I will just put this here...  What if...

A BO2 hacker develops a new tool that can change a regular lobby into a big league lobby and places every one a 'division' beforehand. Then you can earn it in theory legit (5 wins in a division). Obviously after it is proven that it is working... The whitelisting should be the same as they whitelisting of gonespy, as long as you are not the cfw user/ hacker.

---

I don't know if this is possible from a technical standpoint though.

 

 

[SeedersPhD]

1 hour ago, Alihsan621 said:

What the heck are those games 

 

Games with impossible trophies, lol. --> https://www.google.com <---

 

1 hour ago, Alihsan621 said:

That's wrong. People who had a dispute about BO2 had their whole trophy list auto popped. Ofc it's flaggable to have 91 trophies unlocked in 2 minutes. But these people aren't the ones who argue about Big Leagues, because it wouldn't Change anything if 1 of their 91 hacked trophies is whitelisted or not. You didn't get the point, Sir 

 

I get the point, but it's almost as if people have disputed both having 91 or 1 trophy popped. And it would change things if one of their hacked trophies was whitelisted because they didn't earn the trophy. Introducing whitelisted trophies teaches players that "hey, having illegitimate trophies is ok so long as they aren't possible!" which isn't how this works. Big Leagues was implemented, then it was possible for 4 years, then the servers went down,  and that's it. Many many many games do this, so Black Ops 2 gets no exception because it's hard or it's popular. Trophies are a symbol of what you have done, not what you could do.

[Alihsan621]

53 minutes ago, Bumperklever said:

After reading a bit, the strongest point I read in favor of whitelisting is that other sites do it as well, in case of "evolving the rules". Most other reasoning comes into the line of, "please give me, it's easy..." That being said the side that says that it needs to be retained got various good/better points which I agree on.

 

I will just put this here...  What if...

A BO2 hacker develops a new tool that can change a regular lobby into a big league lobby and places every one a 'division' beforehand. Then you can earn it in theory legit (5 wins in a division). Obviously after it is proven that it is working... The whitelisting should be the same as they whitelisting of gonespy, as long as you are not the cfw user/ hacker.

---

I don't know if this is possible from a technical standpoint though.

 

 

It's already possible. I've found a similar Workaround that works exactly like you've mentioned, but couldn't try it out due to no Players.

10 minutes ago, SeedersPhD said:

 

Games with impossible trophies, lol. --> https://www.google.com <---

 

 

I get the point, but it's almost as if people have disputed both having 91 or 1 trophy popped. And it would change things if one of their hacked trophies was whitelisted because they didn't earn the trophy. Introducing whitelisted trophies teaches players that "hey, having illegitimate trophies is ok so long as they aren't possible!" which isn't how this works. Big Leagues was implemented, then it was possible for 4 years, then the servers went down,  and that's it. Many many many games do this, so Black Ops 2 gets no exception because it's hard or it's popular. Trophies are a symbol of what you have done, not what you could do.

I wanted to say that those games are irrelevant.

I totally get your point, I accept that. You have some good facts too, but that's your opinion. I've stated mine several times and I won't change my mind.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Alihsan621

[TheLakota]

4 hours ago, SeedersPhD said:

 

If we're going to get cocky, at least attempt to use your critical thinking skills and think about how this might affect the site going forward instead of just looking at the lack of threads in the present (especially since I said those threads will come, not are here).

 

So now I'm cocky because I pointed out your faulty like of reasoning?

 

The fact is there's absolutely no way to predict that just because Big Leagues is whitelisted, a wave of other requests for far less popular games will somehow follow. There's no prior precedent; this hasn't happened with GTAV as far as I know (not traditionally whitelisted, though it is for all intents and purposes ignored by staff). 

 

There are also far fewer instances of hackers auto unlocking -- I'm being extremely liberal in my assessment here as I know you pointing out one outlier will somehow invalidate my argument -- trophies in the other games you mentioned as well.

 

I'll go ahead and bow out of this conversation since you failed to acknowledge the need for actual evidence to support your initial assertion.