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Should Big Leagues be a flaggable trophy?


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11 minutes ago, Top-Lad-Luke said:

Nowhere in that article does it state what I asked you to provide, specifically regarding one obtaining trophies with a group of friends rather than randoms. 


What is this part then?

 

So, what constitutes cheating or an otherwise actionable offense? Here are some of the things we look out for*:

  • Alteration of Game Code
  • Use of Modified Game Software
  • Use of Modified Game Hardware 
  • Manipulation of In-Game Systems
  • Exploiting Environmental Geometry
  • Manipulation of Connectivity
  • Boosting and Other Forms of Unsporting Play
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23 minutes ago, DaivRules said:


What is this part then?

 

So, what constitutes cheating or an otherwise actionable offense? Here are some of the things we look out for*:

  • Alteration of Game Code
  • Use of Modified Game Software
  • Use of Modified Game Hardware 
  • Manipulation of In-Game Systems
  • Exploiting Environmental Geometry
  • Manipulation of Connectivity
  • Boosting and Other Forms of Unsporting Play

Excellent point.

 

But that raises another caveat: with Naughty Dog being crystal clear on their viewpoint for their leaderboards and multiplayer experience, why DOESN’T this site acknowledge boosting as a form of cheating, when game publishers and developers have been outspoken about how the integrity of their leaderboards is important to them?  To me, it seems as cut and dry of boosting being a case for cheating as say...using a save file manipulation technique.  Hell, maybe even moreso, considering publisher’s motivation towards trophy manipulation versus compromising an authentic ranked multiplayer experience.  Just something to think about...?

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17 minutes ago, Starcade_Legend said:

Excellent point.

 

But that raises another caveat: with Naughty Dog being crystal clear on their viewpoint for their leaderboards and multiplayer experience, why DOESN’T this site acknowledge boosting as a form of cheating, when game publishers and developers have been outspoken about how the integrity of their leaderboards is important to them?  To me, it seems as cut and dry of boosting being a case for cheating as say...using a save file manipulation technique.  Hell, maybe even moreso, considering publisher’s motivation towards trophy manipulation versus compromising an authentic ranked multiplayer experience.  Just something to think about...?

They can’t acknowledge it because trophy boosting isn’t generally seen as a negative thing, and even if it was, there would be no way to tell if someone has boosted a trophy or not.

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It absolutely should be white listed, the fact that anyone who wants to play this multiplayer for fun has to delete their user every time they play is ridiculous. I'm just waiitng for this to happen on a PS4 game where you can't delete the user to prevent synching and thus the site efectively tells you what you can and cannot play. "You can delete the user" is just a stupid 'solution'. 

 

Is the situation ideal? No. If the team want to maintain as much legitimacy as possible then it should be allowed that you do all of the zombies and story content first, synch it with legitimate timestamps, and then you do your best on the multiplayer. 

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17 minutes ago, Starcade_Legend said:

Excellent point.

 

But that raises another caveat: with Naughty Dog being crystal clear on their viewpoint for their leaderboards and multiplayer experience, why DOESN’T this site acknowledge boosting as a form of cheating, when game publishers and developers have been outspoken about how the integrity of their leaderboards is important to them?  To me, it seems as cut and dry of boosting being a case for cheating as say...using a save file manipulation technique.  Hell, maybe even moreso, considering publisher’s motivation towards trophy manipulation versus compromising an authentic ranked multiplayer experience.  Just something to think about...?

 

Because PSNP is a source of income to its owner. Think about the reason why you're here and a Premium Member. Something about this website attracted you here and it likely wasn't the scintillating discourse in the forums. Whether that was the ability to track your stats, see what your position is in the world accurately compared to other trophy hunters, or connect with other people to earn a multiplayer trophy easily. Take away any of that or neuter it in any fashion and you take away a reason why a person would come here and spend their money. Which is why certain decisions in how the website is ran are made the way they are.

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If boosting was considered cheating, the site would already be doing what Potent_Delusions just described. What about games that have had dead, empty mp lobbies from day one? Those games HAVE to be boosted as there is nobody playing them and it really is a stupid solution to tell someone to delete their user. You can't do that on a ps4 so when a hacker auto pops trophies on a ps4 game what are you gonna do? Tell them not to play that game just because hackers have been known to auto pop trophies in hacked mp lobbies? You might as well tell people not to play a dead online game just because there is no player base while your at it. I feel sorry for the people who fell victim to this games hackers and "If you want to enjoy playing this game online, play it on an alternate account" is a dumb solution as well. Why should anyone have to create a new account just to play one game? This kind of thing can happen to anyone.

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20 hours ago, StylerX01 said:

Just for some reason the “cheater removing team” here don’t care about the players who are a victim of this and flag them anyway.

 

#fakenews. All of us voted for the whitelist. But absent one, why shouldn't the listed rules be enforced? At the end of the day, these lists aren't legitimate and there's a leniency limit for a reason...

 

19 hours ago, damon8r351 said:

The people you want to complain about are those toolbags with the purple member titles

 

Are you volunteering?

 

 

Edited by B1rvine
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It's hypocrisy to have a whole section of the site dedicated to "Boosting sessions" which is against the ToS for pretty much every game and indeed PSN as a whole, yet this game isn't allowed. I'm not having a go at the cheat team who do a good job in a thankless role.

 

@B1rvine What is your personal opinion on that concept where people get the SP/Zombies done legitimately then go for the MP last to minimise the amount of autopopped trophies? 

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9 hours ago, DaivRules said:


What is this part then?

 

So, what constitutes cheating or an otherwise actionable offense? Here are some of the things we look out for*:

  • Alteration of Game Code
  • Use of Modified Game Software
  • Use of Modified Game Hardware 
  • Manipulation of In-Game Systems
  • Exploiting Environmental Geometry
  • Manipulation of Connectivity
  • Boosting and Other Forms of Unsporting Play

Boosting in a general sense which as I mentioned in my previous post, is usually for ranking up purposes. The person that responded with Halo made a good point, they specifically give you bans for matchmaking and xp is halted. Boosting does not mean "boosting trophies" its almost always people who boost their ranks. 

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2 hours ago, B1rvine said:

 

#fakenews. All of us voted for the whitelist. But absent one, why shouldn't the listed rules be enforced? At the end of the day, these lists aren't legitimate and there's a leniency limit for a reason...

 

 

Are you volunteering?

 

 

If all of you voted, then why has nothing happened about it?

And what exactly is the leniency limit? As far as I’m aware, you get flagged and that’s it. 

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3 minutes ago, StylerX01 said:

If all of you voted, then why has nothing happened about it?

And what exactly is the leniency limit? As far as I’m aware, you get flagged and that’s it. 

3 flags, 3 strikes. 
I don't know they could you know not accept reports but ?

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I do understand why you aren’t willing to do it. It’s because if you do it for one game, you would have to do it for every game with an unobtainable trophy. But is the integrity of the leaderboards that important? Look at trueachievements and truetrophies. They have perfectly legitimate leaderboards while being lenient about unobtainable trophies.

1 minute ago, mackenzie129 said:

3 flags, 3 strikes. 
I don't know they could you know not accept reports but ?

Yeah so basically you getting flagged or not depends on the day the admin who sees the report is having.

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2 minutes ago, StylerX01 said:

I do understand why you aren’t willing to do it. It’s because if you do it for one game, you would have to do it for every game with an unobtainable trophy. But is the integrity of the leaderboards that important? Look at trueachievements and truetrophies. They have perfectly legitimate leaderboards while being lenient about unobtainable trophies.

Yeah so basically you getting flagged or not depends on the day the admin who sees the report is having.

The argument I don't get is 
Hacker pops trophies in GTA5 or BO2 is not the same as me hacking my console and giving myself trophies or paying a site to do so. 

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2 minutes ago, mackenzie129 said:

The argument I don't get is 
Hacker pops trophies in GTA5 or BO2 is not the same as me hacking my console and giving myself trophies or paying a site to do so. 

I don’t get it either. One is clearly not the player’s fault, and the other one is totally on purpose.. I guess it is because they can’t tell if you autopopped or had a hacker in the lobby who did it. Still a stupid argument, and it’s why in this game in particular should be whitelisted,

So if I want to play BO2 multiplayer I have to keep deleting the user off my PS3 just because the people here can’t put it on a whitelist?

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How is red dead so different to this situation that it makes it fine? But run like the wind isnt even though you still have to fulfill the requirements?

Or random hacked lobbies which is not the persons fault for unknowingly entering. 

What makes red dead so different.

 

Flag them all, or none of them.

Edited by charxsetsuna
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1 hour ago, charxsetsuna said:

How is red dead so different to this situation that it makes it fine? But run like the wind isnt even though you still have to fulfill the requirements?

Or random hacked lobbies which is not the persons fault for unknowingly entering. 

What makes red dead so different.

 

Flag them all, or none of them.

Exactly, it’s not different at all. I don’t understand the “cheater removal team”, can y’all get a little more consistent?

Like @charxsetsuna said, either allow all of them or none of them. It is that simple. 

 

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42 minutes ago, talespagni said:

You have people who receive money to plat games for others, and they tell others about it, write in the forums, boosting their egos... still nothing happens.

 

You have whole teams of people who share a single account, it's literally a production line, one plat after another, 24 hours a day, and many of them are at the top of rankings... still nothing happens.

With your stance on those situations clearly defined, do you believe boosting on ranked leaderboards (albeit for a trophy) should be banned as well, seems by how SONY/Microsoft/Publishers/Developers have just as clearly defined their stance of that practice being cheating?  ?

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7 minutes ago, Starcade_Legend said:

With your stance on those situations clearly defined, do you believe boosting on ranked leaderboards (albeit for a trophy) should be banned as well, seems by how SONY/Microsoft/Publishers/Developers have just as clearly defined their stance of that practice being cheating?  1f914.png

They haven't ever said boosted trophies or achievements are cheating. If you're gunna purposely boost trophies or achievements then do it properly and back out once you've got it so you're not levelling up because then that does become cheating. 

53 minutes ago, talespagni said:

You have people who receive money to plat games for others, and they tell others about it, write in the forums, boosting their egos... still nothing happens.

 

You have whole teams of people who share a single account, it's literally a production line, one plat after another, 24 hours a day, and many of them are at the top of rankings... still nothing happens.

The 2nd half of your post is spot on, teams that are sharing an account should be removed definitely. The first half though is fine, share play is a feature that's built in so if someone gets someone else a trophy using that then that's absolutely fine. 

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25 minutes ago, Top-Lad-Luke said:

They haven't ever said boosted trophies or achievements are cheating. If you're gunna purposely boost trophies or achievements then do it properly and back out once you've got it so you're not levelling up because then that does become cheating. 

I didn’t say SONY/Microsoft/Publishers/Developers dictated that boosting trophies or achievements were considered cheating.  I’m saying that their stance is clearly ‘we consider boosting multiplayer matches in a ranked leaderboard cheating, either for a trophy/achievement/higher ranking on a leaderboard/crazed sexual perversion...whatever.’

 

As far as ‘boosting trophies properly’ goes...what if the trophy asks you to be a certain rank?  Considering how now you can’t ‘back out’ in order for the game to count your rank leveling via boosting methods...do you just opt to NOT getting that trophy, to keep your honor?  ?

 

The stark reality of it is...BLOPS 2 & other multiplayer lobbies that auto-pop trophies are unfortunate and a lot of the time by accident, but...that opens a Pandora’s Box for other reasons trophies are suddenly popped, for this website.  They have to draw the hard line in the sand somewhere, I get it.  I’m just debating the notion that some things are ‘fair’ while other things are considered ‘cheating’.

 

As Sean Carter had stated, ‘Everything’s For Sale’...?

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17 minutes ago, talespagni said:

Of course it shouldn't be banned.

 

When you boost you have to do the trophies, by yourself or with others. You work with a group.

 

In those 2 situations I said above, others are doing the trophy for you. You have no input need, sooner or later the trophy appears in your profile.

I didn’t mention trophies.  The developers do not want you boosting a multiplayer match on their ranked leaderboards, period/point blank.  Do you still do it regardless (in order to get a trophy/achievement/a nickel from your grandma), and hide under the cloak of ‘well, PSNP said it’s fine, so...it’s not technically cheating!’.

 

Remember, this is SONY/Microsoft/Publishers/Developers, the creator of that content you want to boost on ranked leaderboards, universally agreeing on that same message consistently that it’s cheating.  Do you disregard the creator’s intention and STILL consider it not cheating, while having a boosting group for a player match trophy/paying money to someone for an offline platinum (just giving some examples of what you would probably define as ‘cheating’) is defined as cheating?  ?

 

EDIT: To chime in on your mention of SharePlay, that is purposefully a feature brought in by SONY *for the sole purpose of someone coming into your game and playing it for you*.  SONY did this.  So that other’s can accomplish in-game milestones for you (trophies, beating a hard boss, etc).  Whether there is an exchange for money or not, you don’t agree with that, either?  Is that considered ‘cheating.’, too?  ?

Edited by Starcade_Legend
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8 hours ago, Potent_Delusions said:

What is your personal opinion on that concept where people get the SP/Zombies done legitimately then go for the MP last to minimise the amount of autopopped trophies? 

 

I've been an advocate for better leaderboard rules in all sorts of fashion, both stricter and more lax. Including the whitelist. Every time, the community whines.

 

And the above is a sticky situation. People who did it legitimately will still be upset others get a freebie after their hard earned (and prestige UR) plat is in jeopardy, and they still report. At the end of the day, autopopped trophies are just not legitimate. While I wish a whitelist were a thing, it's been made clear and literally listed in black and white : it's flaggable.

 

I've compared this situation somewhere in the past to official sporting events : Considering the options right now without a whitelist, would you really want that one "win" on an official Win-Tie-Loss record that was a technical error, or would it be better to remove it (altogether) from the official record?

 

7 hours ago, StylerX01 said:

If all of you voted, then why has nothing happened about it?

And what exactly is the leniency limit? As far as I’m aware, you get flagged and that’s it. 

Yeah so basically you getting flagged or not depends on the day the admin who sees the report is having.

 

Because we don't make the rules. Three flags are required for permanent removal. And no, we're consistent and all three of us approve these, but it doesn't mean we enjoy it. I'd much rather deal with intentional cheaters. 

 

Quote

"GTA V, RDR, BO2"

 

There's a super thin line. Having a BO2 list entirely auto-popped or partially autopopped without even needing to lift a finger is one thing, and while it's a PITA it can still be undone. GTA's "Run Like the Wind" is a single trophy, still requires the player to actually fulfill the trophy requirements, and it may even be completely legitimate depending on circumstances. RDR doesn't get reported by anyone, and if it did, it'd be nearly impossible to confirm cheating exists since everything is still obtainable. 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

 

I've been an advocate for better leaderboard rules in all sorts of fashion, both stricter and more lax. Including the whitelist. Every time, the community whines.

 

And the above is a sticky situation. People who did it legitimately will still be upset their hard earned (and prestige UR) plat is in jeopardy, and they still report. At the end of the day, autopopped trophies are just not legitimate. While I wish a whitelist were a thing, it's been made clear and literally listed in black and white : it's flaggable.

 

I've compared this situation somewhere in the past to official sporting events : Would you really want that one "win" on an official Win-Tie-Loss record that was a technical error, or would it be better to remove it (altogether) from the official record?

 

 

Because we don't make the rules. Three flags are required for permanent removal. And no, we're consistent and all three of us approve these, but it doesn't mean we enjoy it. I'd much rather deal with intentional cheaters. 

 

 

There's a super thin line. Having a BO2 list entirely auto-popped or partially autopopped without even needing to lift a finger is one thing, and while it's a PITA it can still be undone. GTA's "Run Like the Wind" is a single trophy, still requires the player to actually fulfill the trophy requirements, and it may even be completely legitimate depending on circumstances. RDR doesn't get reported by anyone, and if it did, it'd be nearly impossible to confirm cheating exists since everything is still obtainable. 

Isnt red dead redemption easily identifiable by how quickly the trophies are done online? I could be wrong though but the shorter gap between them should make it easy to spot.

All you have to do is shot the bodies right?

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10 minutes ago, charxsetsuna said:

Isnt red dead redemption easily identifiable by how quickly the trophies are done online? I could be wrong though but the shorter gap between them should make it easy to spot.

All you have to do is shot the bodies right?

 

Every way we have available to check still wouldn't prove someone cheated. It's still entirely possible even if they're done fast, as it's not uncommon for someone to rotate the weapons they used and earn the 500 kills on one and then quickly with the other weapon. They can even do this while working for their ranks. Unless its done entirely with CFW, it's hard to be 100% certain they cheated.

 

Edited by B1rvine
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22 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

 

Every way we have available to check still wouldn't prove someone cheated. It's still entirely possible even if they're done fast, as it's not uncommon for someone to rotate the weapons they used and earn the 500 kills on one and then quickly with the other weapon. They can even do this while working for their ranks. Unless its done entirely with CFW, it's hard to be 100% certain they cheated.

 

Like I’ve said a million times, THERE IS A WAY TO GET THE TROPHY IN A SIMILAR FASHION LIKE GTA V.

You can watch a Theater Mode infection and being placed into a division. You can then win the 5 games and get the trophy. It’s just the same as GTA V, there’s no difference to it at all. 
 

Watching the clip and being placed into a division = find a hacker who puts a Bounty on your head

win 5 games while being placed in a division = survive 48 ingame hours with an active bounty on your head

 

Nobody can tell me that there’s a difference in terms of the rules. It’s not confirmed that this unlocks the trophy, but it should be allowed so we can gather a whole lot of players to try it. 
 

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