The Ribbon System • Part 2

[PSXtreme_]

4 minutes ago, XLordXNightmareX said:

Lolwut? This doesn't even make half a sense

and people wonder why I answer most posts with memes...

 

you have to speak to the level of the lowest denominator...

[Helyx]

14 minutes ago, PSXtreme_ said:

and people wonder why I answer most posts with memes...

 

you have to speak to the level of the lowest denominator...

 

I get it now, and it makes so much sense. Had you started with simple stick figures, I may have caught on earlier.

 

43 minutes ago, Demon--Prototype said:

I can understand why Sly ignores 99% of the people on here but what about a senior mod and large contributor to the site?

 

@Sly Ripper doesn't even compliment me any more. It's crazy how far a "you look cute today" goes.

[dmland12]

11 hours ago, FawltyPowers said:

 

Penalize? Jeez it's just a stat, if you have platinums on your profile then you already have an average, the figures are there if you want to calculate it. Whether you choose to look at it or not is your choice.

 

What is this question, which is better? Why are you assuming that if the average is lower than it is better? If you care about rarity then you can actively lower it by playing a game with a platinum that is rarer than your average rarity, that's all there is to it.

 

Some people would look at a profile and be interested in the number of plats, others rarity, it's just another analytical statistic.

 

Personally I don't care whether this stat is added or not, I use it on my spreadsheets so it doesn't matter if it's here or not. I only suggested it because in my opinion the ribbon idea, whilst well fleshed out has started to feel more convoluted as it's gone along.

 

 

It's fine of course as just another stat, no worse than the average rarity stat.  But, the whole ribbon idea was supposed to be more than that, as it was also going on the top of the profile and sidebar (with an option to opt out or something) with some talk of it going on trophy cards and having additional leaderboards based on it as well.  In other words, it would, for better or worse be a prominent statistic if implemented.  (This is why there's a lot of strong opinions about it.)

 

Since, you proposed this idea in this thread as a seeming alternative, that's how I took it.  My apologies if I was mistaken in this.

[DeepEyes7]

It has taken so much time that the second question included 75% just for games like spider-man and now spider-man is under 50% too

[danceswithsloths]

16 hours ago, PSXtreme_ said:

and people wonder why I answer most posts with memes...

 

you have to speak to the level of the lowest denominator...

Typical gen z, only able to communicate in unfunny memes. Back in my day we were taught how to form complete sentences and talk to each other like human beings, you kids should try it sometime.

[AJ_Radio]

17 hours ago, danceswithsloths said:

Typical gen z, only able to communicate in unfunny memes. Back in my day we were taught how to form complete sentences and talk to each other like human beings, you kids should try it sometime.

 

He’s one of the older members of this website. I checked his profile. 

 

Generation Z is still going to high school and elementary school. What you probably meant is Generation Y, aka the Millennials who primarily know how to talk on social media, but feel too scared and awkward to be engaged in interpersonal communication. Something that they and Generation Z lack a great deal of. 

 

Sometimes I wish I was born 10 - 30 years earlier.

[danceswithsloths]

4 hours ago, Spaz said:

 

He’s one of the older members of this website. I checked his profile. 

 

Generation Z is still going to high school and elementary school. What you probably meant is Generation Y, aka the Millennials who primarily know how to talk on social media, but feel too scared and awkward to be engaged in interpersonal communication. Something that they and Generation Z lack a great deal of. 

 

Sometimes I wish I was born 10 - 30 years earlier.

Thank you for offering your help, but my comment was entirely sarcastic, and actually did say exactly what I meant for it to say. I am well aware of how old he claims to be and I am also aware of the differences between Gen X, Millenials, and Gen Z, I just like to screw with annoying people.

Edited November 14, 2019 by danceswithsloths

[AJ_Radio]

1 minute ago, danceswithsloths said:

I said exactly what I meant. I am well aware of how old he claims to be. I am also well aware of the differences between Gen X, Millenials, and Gen Z. Thank you for offering your help, but my comment was entirely sarcasm.

 

It was amusing, but I generally consider sarcasm to be a low form of comedy, so to speak.

 

I can agree with internet memes because most of them are stupid, about as idiotic as Jesus Christ and God bumper sticks on the back of a car. But we've gone off topic enough, so I'll end it here.

 

----

 

My biggest issue with the Ribbon System is I still think 50 percent is too high. There are plenty of games, especially PSN games on PS4 that aren't difficult in the slightest yet they're Uncommon and Rare respectively.

 

The Soulsborne games pretty much throw out the 'rarity equals difficulty' logic. A game can take 100 - 200 hours to platinum but is extremely easy. A game can take only 10 - 20 hours but is extremely difficult, like Vanquish. Yet if both are the same rarity, both are obviously going to get the same 'type' ribbons according to the system.

 

At this point I don't really care, but I definitely support the idea of turning off the Ribbons because for some it creates an air of entitlement. To be frank, they're icing on top of icing. Trophies on their own weren't worth all that much to begin with. It's the games themselves and how much you enjoy them, and how much you're willing to overcome a challenge that proves difficult.

[DeepEyes7]

49 minutes ago, Spaz said:

 

It was amusing, but I generally consider sarcasm to be a low form of comedy, so to speak.

 

I can agree with internet memes because most of them are stupid, about as idiotic as Jesus Christ and God bumper sticks on the back of a car. But we've gone off topic enough, so I'll end it here.

 

----

 

My biggest issue with the Ribbon System is I still think 50 percent is too high. There are plenty of games, especially PSN games on PS4 that aren't difficult in the slightest yet they're Uncommon and Rare respectively.

 

The Soulsborne games pretty much throw out the 'rarity equals difficulty' logic. A game can take 100 - 200 hours to platinum but is extremely easy. A game can take only 10 - 20 hours but is extremely difficult, like Vanquish. Yet if both are the same rarity, both are obviously going to get the same 'type' ribbons according to the system.

 

At this point I don't really care, but I definitely support the idea of turning off the Ribbons because for some it creates an air of entitlement. To be frank, they're icing on top of icing. Trophies on their own weren't worth all that much to begin with. It's the games themselves and how much you enjoy them, and how much you're willing to overcome a challenge that proves difficult.

 

Maybe this is off-topic but I think that precisely what you say about the easy game of 200 hours versus the difficult game of 20 hours is what makes the rarity interesting, to me both of them could share the same rarity and it is ok, because there is some people that have the ability to be pretty good at games but their levels of frustration are very low, at the first obstacle or thing "out of their way of playing" they left the games and their patience is very low, so having patience and persistence is another skill that a lot of people lack, so don't disdain "easy" games with long plats, because if the rarity is low is because a lot of people didn't want to do the farming or the repetition that other people did...

[mekktor]

1 hour ago, Spaz said:

My biggest issue with the Ribbon System is I still think 50 percent is too high. There are plenty of games, especially PSN games on PS4 that aren't difficult in the slightest yet they're Uncommon and Rare respectively.

 

The Soulsborne games pretty much throw out the 'rarity equals difficulty' logic. A game can take 100 - 200 hours to platinum but is extremely easy. A game can take only 10 - 20 hours but is extremely difficult, like Vanquish. Yet if both are the same rarity, both are obviously going to get the same 'type' ribbons according to the system.

 

 

It's less "rarity equals difficulty" and more "rarity equals effort". Why are you only considering difficulty here?

 

[starcrunch061]

10 hours ago, DeepEyes7 said:

Maybe this is off-topic but I think that precisely what you say about the easy game of 200 hours versus the difficult game of 20 hours is what makes the rarity interesting, to me both of them could share the same rarity and it is ok, because there is some people that have the ability to be pretty good at games but their levels of frustration are very low, at the first obstacle or thing "out of their way of playing" they left the games and their patience is very low, so having patience and persistence is another skill that a lot of people lack, so don't disdain "easy" games with long plats, because if the rarity is low is because a lot of people didn't want to do the farming or the repetition that other people did...

 

Exactly. I'm a decently skilled gamer, but no pro. But I have a lot of patience, so I can still get a lot of UR trophies. I just have to put the time into them. Everyone always says "rarity does not equal difficulty!", whiich is certainly true. It's almost like...

like...

 

9 hours ago, mekktor said:

It's less "rarity equals difficulty" and more "rarity equals effort".

 

THIS!

Edited November 14, 2019 by starcrunch061

[AJ_Radio]

The “rarity equals effort” thing is thrown out the window too. 

 

Dark Souls took me 70 - 80 hours to platinum with a lot of research and grinding. There is multiplayer and there are ways to speed through the game in a much quicker fashion. But it took me more effort than a lot of games I’ve done that are rare (10 - 20 percent) platinums. I idled a LOT which added a good 10 - 15 hours into my time. The game is one of the most iconic and cherished games of the last 10 years. Plus there is a highly devoted, dedicated fanbase for practically every game From Software has done. A lot of people have stuck with the game, even though it’s harder than a good majority of titles if you guys were to judge on the trophy rarities.

 

Far Cry 4, which I’m currently playing is more difficult and harder than Saints Row: Gat Out of Hell was for me. Yet the trophies have higher rarity. Now granted, Saints Row was on PS Plus and a lot of people probably lost interest one hour in. Still even if it wasn’t on Plus the trophies would likely still be lower than those in Far Cry 4. The game being good or not for most has a lot to do with it. 

 

I’m not a pro either, if I was then Super Meat Boy would of been done in a few short days. I have patience on my side so a game giving me trouble I generally put to the side and pick it up after a few weeks or months. 

 

“Rarity equals difficulty”, “Rarity equals effort” really mean the same thing to me. A lot of Ultra Rare platinums require a lot of effort, some are extremely difficult. But that’s really not always the case.

[panikooooos]

2 hours ago, Spaz said:

The “rarity equals effort” thing is thrown out the window too. 

 

Dark Souls took me 70 - 80 hours to platinum with a lot of research and grinding. There is multiplayer and there are ways to speed through the game in a much quicker fashion. But it took me more effort than a lot of games I’ve done that are rare (10 - 20 percent) platinums. I idled a LOT which added a good 10 - 15 hours into my time. The game is one of the most iconic and cherished games of the last 10 years. Plus there is a highly devoted, dedicated fanbase for practically every game From Software has done. A lot of people have stuck with the game, even though it’s harder than a good majority of titles if you guys were to judge on the trophy rarities.

 

Far Cry 4, which I’m currently playing is more difficult and harder than Saints Row: Gat Out of Hell was for me. Yet the trophies have higher rarity. Now granted, Saints Row was on PS Plus and a lot of people probably lost interest one hour in. Still even if it wasn’t on Plus the trophies would likely still be lower than those in Far Cry 4. The game being good or not for most has a lot to do with it. 

 

I’m not a pro either, if I was then Super Meat Boy would of been done in a few short days. I have patience on my side so a game giving me trouble I generally put to the side and pick it up after a few weeks or months. 

 

“Rarity equals difficulty”, “Rarity equals effort” really mean the same thing to me. A lot of Ultra Rare platinums require a lot of effort, some are extremely difficult. But that’s really not always the case.

See it as more of a good indicator than anything, sure, there's no perfectly positive correlation between plat rarity and effort it takes to plat but there definitely is a strong correlation there. Just like IQ is not a perfect measure of intelligence but it's the best predictor of intelligence we have to the point where people use these two interchangeably. If not for rarity, what other measure would you even use to determine how hard a plat is? See what I mean?

[Spinosaurus Rex]

15 hours ago, Spaz said:

The “rarity equals effort” thing is thrown out the window too.

 

There's too many problems involved while determining if the platinum is "worthy" enough to net a ribbon.

 

There would be a team to determine which platinum would give a ribbon? How they would know if, for example, Kid Tripp (current plat rarity varies, but it's about ~20%) requires effort if they probably never heard about the game which has around 200 owners? Probably they would only care about rating more popular titles.

 

Or maybe we, the community would vote which game is worth a ribbon? Many people would vote "no" for a game in which they don't have platinum.

 

Rarity is the only option for limit currently. And rarity isn't just determined by difficulty/time to 100%. In fact, there's always a reason why certain game has platinum with rarity lower/higher than expected. There's many more things to consider, mostly:

• if the game is good or bad: Soulsborne games looks appealing and are objectively excellent games, so more % of people complete them despite their difficulty and time involved. A bad game's platinum which would be equally difficult to get would be much rarer.
• if the trophy list is straightforward or very complicated: examples Bloodborne again, Marvel's Spiderman or Trine 3. They require you to 100% the game and (almost) nothing more, there's no odd things to do like "Kill 5 enemies in 10 seconds with a certain skill/weapon) which most no trophy hunters wouldn't care about. 
• depends of people who bought the game (are they hardcore or casual and just bought certain game because of its uniquess). Bloodborne (again) has mostly dedicated fanbase, while Dust: An Elysian Tale (~9-10% rarity) was bought by people who mostly doesn't hunt trophies and were just interested in very furry-like art style

TLDR; let rarity be limit, but it should be higher, as there's plenty of games within 40-50% range that's hardly challenging and time consuming. We discussed about this in another thread where 35% is a good limit between stuff requiring effort and not so much. But the most important thing should be making the ribbon of effort apply to every game, not just those with the platinum.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Spinosaurus Rex

[AJ_Radio]

10 hours ago, Spinosaurus Rex said:

There's too many problems involved while determining if the platinum is "worthy" enough to net a ribbon.

 

This is a blanket system. It applies to everything that falls under a certain rarity, regardless of how long or how short, how difficult or how easy the game is. 

 

10 hours ago, Spinosaurus Rex said:

There would be a team to determine which platinum would give a ribbon? How they would know if, for example, Kid Tripp (current plat rarity varies, but it's about ~20%) requires effort if they probably never heard about the game which has around 200 owners? Probably they would only care about rating more popular titles.

 

There are a plethora of games out there which people can quickly determine deserve a ribbon. The Soulsborne games, which I’ve brought up many times before. 

 

The Ratalaika Game stacks don’t deserve any ribbons. My six year old niece can play through those games and earn the platinum trophies. Ribbons should be reserved for titles that have a bit of difficulty and require some effort to obtain,  platinum or 100 percent. 

 

A game with only 200 owners is considered obscure and niche. Most people aren’t going to care anyway. 

 

10 hours ago, Spinosaurus Rex said:

Or maybe we, the community would vote which game is worth a ribbon? Many people would vote "no" for a game in which they don't have platinum.

 

What good will that do? What’s the value of someone voting “no” for a game they couldn’t finish? 

 

10 hours ago, Spinosaurus Rex said:

Rarity is the only option for limit currently. And rarity isn't just determined by difficulty/time to 100%. In fact, there's always a reason why certain game has platinum with rarity lower/higher than expected. There's many more things to consider, mostly:

 

You already laid this out before, so I don’t need to repeat myself on your view in general. 

 

10 hours ago, Spinosaurus Rex said:

If the game is good or bad: Soulsborne games looks appealing and are objectively excellent games, so more % of people complete them despite their difficulty and time involved. A bad game's platinum which would be equally difficult to get would be much rarer.

 

Which is why I brought up Far Cry 4 and Saints Row: Gat Out of Hell.

 

Saints Row has a five to six hour story, depending on how quick you go through it. The rest of the trophies are basically doing all 100 challenges, with a trophy for playing at least 20 hours. That has brushed away a lot of people, which explains why most of the trophies are rare and uncommon. You’re doing a 14 - 15 hour grind, which was very boring and monotonous for me.

 

Far Cry on the other hand, is simply a better game. Granted, the budget for this game was significantly higher than Saints Row, which is more of a AA game. But... Far Cry is more fun and engaging. The trophies are extremely straightforward, the story is a lot better, it doesn’t feel nearly as monotonous. The Far Cry franchise has a lot of avid fans, much like Assassins Creed. If the games prove to be good, and the trophies are laid out and straightforward, then more people will stick to playing the games for longer. 

 

Saints Row: Gat Out of Hell had a lot of people who played for a hour or so, dropped it and never came back to it. However that is basically every game that goes on PlayStation Plus, so that doesn’t surprise me. 

 

10 hours ago, Spinosaurus Rex said:

Depends of people who bought the game (are they hardcore or casual and just bought certain game because of its uniquess). Bloodborne (again) has mostly dedicated fanbase, while Dust: An Elysian Tale (~9-10% rarity) was bought by people who mostly doesn't hunt trophies and were just interested in very furry-like art style.

 

I brought up these two games several times before in other topics. What I just said for Far Cry 4 and Saints Row applies here also. 

 

10 hours ago, Spinosaurus Rex said:

TLDR; let rarity be limit, but it should be higher, as there's plenty of games within 40-50% range that's hardly challenging and time consuming. We discussed about this in another thread where 35% is a good limit between stuff requiring effort and not so much. But the most important thing should be making the ribbon of effort apply to every game, not just those with the platinum.

 

I never said ribbons should only apply to games with platinum trophies. 

 

I still feel 40 - 50 percent rarity is too high. 35 percent is the limit I think is best. 

[Spinosaurus Rex]

On 16.11.2019 at 5:19 AM, Spaz said:

I brought up these two games several times before in other topics. What I just said for Far Cry 4 and Saints Row applies here also.

 

I remember these posts, but I just felt I need to name the probable reason, that's why I brought them up here. 

 

My thought (and few people here) is that rarity don't come from nowhere and it's a sum of all factors that could determine platinum rarity.  Good games are more fun to play than bad games. Either you have to play easy, but bad and tedious game with big grind; play a very good, but very difficult, skill demanding game or play a game with a guide from start to finish because of bunch of missable, stupid trophies. Every aspect I mentioned requires some kind of effort (but obviously difficulty is the aspect trophy hunters are mostly taking notice).

 

This is not a fight just between Soulsborne = ribbon, Ratalaika game = no ribbon (which will be true anyway with this system), because there's too many games in middle between them. Puzzle/adventure games will suffer the most with this system, but there's no way to determine if somebody did it with a guide or not.

 

I think there's no reason to discuss here about this, it's a dead topic anyway, Ribbon System is going to be implemented with 50% limit and nothing change it, but maybe if there will be new topic about Ribbon System and our comments about it, maybe then it'll be a good idea to bring this idea again.

[AJ_Radio]

18 hours ago, Spinosaurus Rex said:

This is not a fight just between Soulsborne = ribbon, Ratalaika game = no ribbon (which will be true anyway with this system), because there's too many games in middle between them. Puzzle/adventure games will suffer the most with this system, but there's no way to determine if somebody did it with a guide or not.

 

It's more Super Meat Boy = ribbon, Furi = ribbon, Ratalaika game = no ribbon, My Name is Mayo/Orc Slayer = no ribbon.

 

Despite what most people say, the Soulsborne games aren't that difficult. There's guides, there's plenty of YouTube walkthroughs you can follow along with, there's an entire Wikipedia dedicated to the Dark Souls games, listing every single item that's necessary for platinum, as well as items that aren't necessary.

 

This thread was closed and then revived. Being months old, people have already read the news and moved on.

[HIBIKI_REM]

Is this ribbon system still being implemented?

[Venocide]

So....uhhhh.......is this still happening? 

 

 

Hello......hello......hello......hello......hello......hello

[BlindMango]

6 hours ago, Venocide said:

So....uhhhh.......is this still happening? 

 

Since shovelware trophy lists are essentially at an all time high, I'd still like to see something along the lines of this implemented... but ultimately Sly would have to build it 

[SpaceCoresDad]

38 minutes ago, BlindMango said:

but ultimately Sly would have to build it

Is there any way for people other than Sly being able to build more to this site? It seems like he's busy with a lot of things as of late, and there's people out there with a lot of great ideas that I think would add to the site a lot.

[DaivRules]

39 minutes ago, SpaceCoresDad said:

Is there any way for people other than Sly being able to build more to this site? It seems like he's busy with a lot of things as of late, and there's people out there with a lot of great ideas that I think would add to the site a lot.

He’s the owner and admin, that’s up to him. 

[NamoPh]

1 hour ago, BlindMango said:

 

Since shovelware trophy lists are essentially at an all time high, I'd still like to see something along the lines of this implemented... but ultimately Sly would have to build it 

 

Have you had any discussion with regards to how likely it is?

[Darling Baphomet]

I feel like only having two ribbons, one for 75% and one for 5%, leaves far too wide a gap. The 75% one means nothing except that the player hasn't grinded my name is mayo in 20 regions, but the 5% one excludes most games that actually take effort. I'd say something like under 7.5-10%, because most games with an 8% or lower completion rate on PSNP either take dozens of hours to complete, or are super hard.

[Maxie_M0us3]

Is there some news about this system? I check back this topic because of the new level icons and trophy level being increased.