The Ribbon System • Part 2

[mackenzie129]

3 hours ago, TheLakota said:

 

Make it mandatory and I guarantee you'll have several members leave. I'll also be requesting a refund for my premium membership (don't @ me). 

I 1000% agree with this statement, Sorry not sorry for quoting 

Why force anything on people that obviously don't want this feature that's pretty ludicrous. But then again so is implementing a feature before the 50 other features that users have been requesting. 
Mango I love you dude and this idea but 
- Backlog
- White-list 
- Rarity leaderboard 
- Profiles literally not updating (I have a friend that isn't registered and I cant update him because my IP is blocked"

There's literally a thread based on people asking and somewhat begging for fixes, Its like painting over rust sure it looks fine but the problems are still there.

 

[SkyMason]

2 minutes ago, mackenzie129 said:

I 1000% agree with this statement, Sorry not sorry for quoting 

Why force anything on people that obviously don't want this feature that's pretty ludicrous. But then again so is implementing a feature before the 50 other features that users have been requesting. 
Mango I love you dude and this idea but 
- Backlog
- White-list 
- Rarity leaderboard 
- Profiles literally not updating (I have a friend that isn't registered and I cant update him because my IP is blocked"

There's literally a thread based on people asking and somewhat begging for fixes, Its like painting over rust sure it looks fine but the problems are still there.

Did you read the first post?

Quote

Remember this is likely a ways off from being implemented and not taking priority over other features people have been asking for, though threads like this will get this system in a well agreed upon place for whenever it does get added.

Also going by the votes it seems like it will be an optional feature on people's profiles whenever and if it does get added.

[AJ_Radio]

On 8/4/2019 at 0:22 AM, FilmFanatic said:

I figured it was at least somewhat obvious from my post that if this comes to fruition then of course I’m going to hide and ignore them. And as mentioned above the whole reason this came about is because a vocal minority don’t like that other people stack Rata and EZPZ games and now we are voting on a way to show that these ‘elitists’ have a ‘better’ profile because of some ribbons. The funny thing is that the people who stack those sorts of games more than likely don’t care what anyone else thinks about their profile. But hey, as long as they are optional then let those people stay on their high horses if it makes them feel better about themselves.

 

I'm sorry for being brash and rude there, but I can't help but think this way.

 

I get that everybody here wants to see an improved interface and to see our trophy profiles more convenient to use. I would argue that this kind of stuff has always attracted the elitists. Personally I can't stand elitists, but if this system does turn out to be fairly good then I'm all for it.

 

1 hour ago, Gommes_ said:

 

Exactly this. The trophy mean something to yourself. So I wouldn't care if I get a "participation ribbon" for Steins Gate, cause that shit was awesome! But wouldn't this apply to all the games? You just feel discriminated if you let the ribbons affect you, right? So if if one is just playing "EZPZ games" why should that one be mad about this new system?

 

While I said that trophies mean something to the one who achieved them I also like that I can check out other profiles on this site or that so many people have trophy cards in their signature. Because of this I get motivated or inspired. The only difference the ribbons would make is that I can see at first glance what kind of hunter the player is. Nonetheless I clicked on the profile, cause some of the shown stats "impressed" me. I think it is weird that some say it can be used to shame them but at the same time they registered on this site, made their profile public, put a trophy card in their signatures etc.

 

A number of games I ended up buying were from looking from other peoples profiles, thinking 'Hey this looks interesting, I'll check it out on YouTube and see how much it's being offered on the PlayStation Store'.

 

In that respect, I have come across many games that I never would of even considered had I just kept to myself. Velocity 2X, Hotline Miami 1 & 2, Furi, Downwell, Rogue Legacy and Slain: Back From Hell I all got from looking at someone else's profile.

[ZenRhino]

I'm fairly new around here but I'm all for it.

 

I just don't understand the argument that having Ribbons indicating effort or rarity automatically implies some sort of shame on all other games.

 

It's not like anyone is suggesting a 'Ribbon of Garbage' for anything above 50%! We all know there are some great games above that mark.

 

I am a pretty average gamer, and I don't expect to be getting many (if any!) Ribbons of Rarity. Will I feel some sort of shame that I won't have any on my profile? No, that's silly. I'll just admire other peoples and get on with the way I like to play games.

 

Similarly, I wont feel any shame regarding my position on the overall leaderboard, because I don't want to stack EZPZ games and so choose to ignore it.

 

It's just another stat on a statistics based website. It's cool.

[pot1414]

48 minutes ago, ZenRhino said:

I'm fairly new around here but I'm all for it.

 

I just don't understand the argument that having Ribbons indicating effort or rarity automatically implies some sort of shame on all other games.

 

It's not like anyone is suggesting a 'Ribbon of Garbage' for anything above 50%! We all know there are some great games above that mark.

 

I am a pretty average gamer, and I don't expect to be getting many (if any!) Ribbons of Rarity. Will I feel some sort of shame that I won't have any on my profile? No, that's silly. I'll just admire other peoples and get on with the way I like to play games.

 

Similarly, I wont feel any shame regarding my position on the overall leaderboard, because I don't want to stack EZPZ games and so choose to ignore it.

 

It's just another stat on a statistics based website. It's cool.

This is it right here.

 

I saw posts sarcastically calling games with over 50% rarity garbage trying to defend not implementing this.How did you even come up with that conclusion?

Nobody is denying that there are some amazing games with over 50%, they just don't require effort to complete thus not being eligible for the ribbon of effort.Such a simple concept.

Now if someone feels like they have to change their gaming habits based on a new stat then they are where the problem lies and not the new stat and it's a serious one.

[MrTriesHisBest]

I feel like the way it was first presented was a little badly worded. It's cleared up now and everything, but I feel the main brunt of opposition against this is because people misunderstood and thought you were going to be removing the trophy points and platinum counts from those games and thus removing their trophy level and overall platinum numbers, which would be sort of shit.

 

As a person that eats up Rata games for breakfast, I don't mind how many are displayed on my profile and I wouldn't imagine that that many others would either, but I think the idea of back spacing their work sort of gave them a rough start. 

 

Again, super understandable now, but I do think it might have been misconstrued at first. But I do love the Ribbon idea, and that's coming from a Rata lover! Bring it forward, mates!

Because I cannot for the life of me imagine there are grown ass people out there complaining about "they said my games are garbage but it Inksplosion took me 6 whole hours to platinum!!!!!!!!"

 

Stfu

[sepheroithisgod]

I love the option, but I really think 75% needs to be the cutoff. Games like Spiderman, Spyro, Steins Gate, Sly and many others are great games that take a decent amount of time to platinum. I'm all for getting the trash games that take an hr to plat off the website, but I don't want it at the cost of good ones.

 

There are also games like Jak 2 and others that people abuse the debug mode on. Anyone that does it legit knows that it takes time (and can be aggravating) to get it.

Edited August 5, 2019 by sepheroithisgod

[thefourfoldroot]

I do think that, if this had simply been put forward as "do you want a little ribbon for achieving ultra rare plats" everybody, pretty much, would have been on board.

Because it has been put forward in a way some construe as negative we've had unnecessary criticism of a great idea. Perhaps only give the ribbons for plats with a 20% cut off, then people won't see it as a criticism undermining some plats, but more as a reward for exceptional work.

I won't get many, but I don't care.

[VoidVictorious]

On 8/2/2019 at 4:14 PM, Cleggworth said:

I voted no. I don't understand this really. Every single time this topic comes up the thread is an exact copy of the last one.

 

OP - "What's up with those ratalaika games? What's the point in such easy games?/why do people slag off people who like playing ratalaika games?"

 

Everyone else - "don't worry about it, you do you. Nobody cares. Nobody should tell you how to have fun. You don't have the right to tell people how to have fun etc etc"

 

But....

 

Check out this shiny ribbon thing you can get that's shows how much better you are than these people!

 

GIMME THE RIBBON! I'M SO MUCH BETTER AT THIS THAN THOSE GUYS!!

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with this argument. Why do we need another system to pat certain users on the head that feel that the games they play are better and of more value than the games others play?

 

It is not anyone’s job on this site to “fix the platinum trophy.” This is Sony’s system. The platinum is literally designed to be a representation that you completed all of the trophies in a game. That’s it. Some platinums even state “obtained all trophies in (game name). 

 

We already have leaderboards. We also have a large percentage of users that are not content with their personal accomplishments or their place on the leaderboard and choose to harass other users for playing differently than they do.

If you really think about it, this kind of reaction to a lot of negative behavior rewards those that consider themselves better than others and also attempts to officially validate it with a ribbon. This will always be a big no for me.

Edited August 5, 2019 by VoidVictorious

[Helyx]

3 hours ago, ZenRhino said:

It's just another stat on a statistics based website. It's cool.

 

This guy gets it.

[VoidVictorious]

7 minutes ago, dj_helyx said:

 

This guy gets it.

It’s not really a stat. Stats are fine. I think an unintended side effect of this system is looking at those stats and ignoring them in favor of patting someone on the head for something they should be proud of like beating a game. It is like a participation ribbon, those were meant to make people feel good because they got a little award. Those ribbons diminished in use because studies demonstrated that constantly rewarding people and assigning value to their work for them makes them less likely to draw satisfaction from their own work. People started to assign more value to the ribbon than the accomplishment. 

[bjenn_x]

31 minutes ago, VoidVictorious said:

It’s not really a stat.

Well it is a statistic, but just sliced in a way that only seems to benefit a subset of people on this site. I like the idea of the ribbons but I'm not really on board with this particular implementation. I posted in the original thread that it would be more inclusive to show ribbons for all platinums but that they could be tiered like trophies, with the tiers being based on rarity.

 

Platinum ribbon = ultra rare

Gold ribbon = very rare

Silver ribbon = rare

Bronze = uncommon and common

 

At least then it would feel more like a statistic and perhaps be less arbitrary.

[majob]

There's nothing I can say that already hasn't been said but I feel the Ribbon for Effort is the only feature I'm not on board with. Trophy rarity or lack thereof shouldn't be cause for a downgrade under any circumstance. Someone played the game, and someone earned the trophy. If this upsets people because they feel their "hobby" is being diminished by "easy" and  "common" games then I'd say they have a personal issue they need to work out.

 

That being said, if it's entirely optional then there's no reason not to implement it. Those who want in and can have in and those who want nothing to do with it can have their way as well

[MidnightDragon]

So much excitement over this!

[thefourfoldroot]

8 hours ago, FilmFanatic said:

These 2 statements are how this whole thing came about. In the real world trophies have no worth or value whatsoever. As far as gamers and trophy hunters go, a trophies value is entirely subjective. Person A considers trophy X worthwhile whereas Person B doesn’t and vice versa. But the great thing about it is that a trophies worth is not a fact, it’s an opinion. This means that neither Person A or Person B is right or wrong when they give a trophy a value that the other disagrees with. However these ‘ribbons of effort’ are seeking to change that by putting a worth/value based on their rarity which is just stupid.

[...]

 

No, it is seeking to denote rarity, rightfully use that as an indicator of difficulty, and then reward that. This is all. It doesn't, in and of itself, devalue anything.

Also, just playing devil's advocate, but whereas it is clearly true that value is subjective, because value is a human construct, does not everybody agreeing that something has less value make its lower value objectively "true" within that particular culture or community? Because I don't know a single person who would claim that some trophies that can be earned in a few minutes of autoplay hold much value at all. Even those who go out of their way to get them.

Edited August 5, 2019 by thefourfoldroot

[TheLakota]

14 minutes ago, thefourfoldroot said:

No, it is seeking to denote rarity, rightfully use that as an indicator of difficulty, and then reward that. This is all.

 

Great news! Sony already has a system in place for that. It's called a trophy. Rarity is even assigned to said trophies and accounts for everyone who's ever played the game. Ever. 

[thefourfoldroot]

15 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

 

Great news! Sony already has a system in place for that. It's called a trophy. Rarity is even assigned to said trophies and accounts for everyone who's ever played the game. Ever. 

And this site is proposing that they further demarcate from an arbitrary 4 trophies to a greater number so people who wish to score themselves by other factors can do so. Greater functionality is good, no?

Plus, Sony's system doesn't connect difficulty with the trophy type any longer, that ship has sailed unfortunately. It's broken. Another reason for these other trophies/ribbons.

Edited August 5, 2019 by thefourfoldroot

[TheLakota]

I've said my piece. Don't want it, don't need it. Just give me the option to disable. 

[majob]

1 hour ago, thefourfoldroot said:

And this site is proposing that they further demarcate from an arbitrary 4 trophies to a greater number so people who wish to score themselves by other factors can do so. Greater functionality is good, no?

Plus, Sony's system doesn't connect difficulty with the trophy type any longer, that ship has sailed unfortunately. It's broken. Another reason for these other trophies/ribbons.

It's the publisher/developer who makes up the trophy list and assigns value. Sony merely approves or doesn't approve the submitted list. Trophy type was also never strictly tied with difficulty since many older ps3 games assigned gold trophies simply for progression further into the game.

[PFinchen]

I have always interpreted this idea as being more complimentary toward tougher platinums rather than an effort to diminish easier platinums. Sure, somebody could look at a profile with 100 platinums and only 30 ribbons and attempt to use that in an elitist effort to demean somebody else’s trophy hunting, but I think that this is already possible anyways. I think this community is (largely) supportive of one another, and those people seeking to bring down other trophy hunters will exist regardless. I am very supportive of this idea, and I say that recognizing I have a few trashy Rat platinums, as well as a number of TellTale games that would not meet the ribbon requirements. 

[BlackTorito]

2 hours ago, thefourfoldroot said:

And this site is proposing that they further demarcate from an arbitrary 4 trophies to a greater number so people who wish to score themselves by other factors can do so. Greater functionality is good, no?

Plus, Sony's system doesn't connect difficulty with the trophy type any longer, that ship has sailed unfortunately. It's broken. Another reason for these other trophies/ribbons.

And how exactly is it demarcating? Half the ribbons are arbitrary anyway, and the other half just reassure an stat the trophy system already shows.

 

And how exactly does these ribbons fix a “broken” system where golds  are “not tied” to usually the most difficult/time consuming things on a game? 

 

 

[Jounochi]

I initially voted against this but I'm coming around on the idea.  Will the profile cards be updated to show the ribbons, if allowed by the user?

[Nieird]

If ribbons are created every platinum trophies should be worth one. Something like one for ultra-rare, one for rare, one for uncommon and one for common.

 

Also ribbon of effort should be name something else. Because it looks like a participation award and the trophy that don't qualify for it aren't worth the effort?!? 

 

My opinion.

 

 

[Alternatewarning]

My opinion on this hasn't changed BUT: I think you should use the ribbon with the old platinum trophy symbol.  Everyone knows what the new one looks like, I think using the old one is a good idea.

 

I said this before but I'll say it again.  In theory I like the idea.  However, I also feel, like some other people do, that it's not the best system.  I don't have many ribbons because I don't seek out "hard" games or "rare" games I seek out games I want to play.  And because of that, some people look down on my platinums as "not worth it" because they're not ultra-rare.  I feel like this ribbon will just make it more obvious that I am not the type of gamer that this site caters too.  So, in theory I like it, but I know in reality it's just going to be another thing people look down on others for.

[thefourfoldroot]

1 hour ago, PFinchen said:

I have always interpreted this idea as being more complimentary toward tougher platinums rather than an effort to diminish easier platinums. Sure, somebody could look at a profile with 100 platinums and only 30 ribbons and attempt to use that in an elitist effort to demean somebody else’s trophy hunting, but I think that this is already possible anyways. I think this community is (largely) supportive of one another, and those people seeking to bring down other trophy hunters will exist regardless. I am very supportive of this idea, and I say that recognizing I have a few trashy Rat platinums, as well as a number of TellTale games that would not meet the ribbon requirements. 

Exactly my position and situation too.