Spider-Man no longer in the MCU.

[Elvick_]

2 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

 

You're right for being sceptical of your initial belief as it is incorrect. 

 

A number of film franchises turned into powerhouses based off merchandising include not just Star Wars, but Harry Potter, Toy Story, and yes, Marvel films.

 

Per Disney CEO Bob Iger, in 2013 Disney made $41 Billion (that's with a capital B) off licensing.

 

As @majob mentioned, do not underestimate the power of merchandising/licensing. Disney has created a monopolistic juggernaut, and I support any endeavor to curtail their shady practices. 

Don't forget Cars. There's a reason it got tons of sequels/spinoffs and it's not because it was the best movie ever, but because merch sold insanely well and Disney wanted to keep selling new Cars related merch. Disney's entire model, and pretty much every company worth a damn, is to use films to advertise merch and other shit. For Disney and Universal that includes their theme parks. There's little doubt that Episode IX will end on the nothing planet that Galaxy's Edge is set on. Probably with some iconic shot of the Falcon landing. "Come visit Galaxy's Edge~"

It's not about movies. It's about merch. Games get to that point too, Pokemon merch makes far more than the games ever will. And the games are highly successful.

Disney is being greedy assholes, they don't deserve 50% of the box office or any piece of Sony's pie for other content they put out (Spider-Verse/Venom). Sony fired back with pretty much the same deal, but Disney rejected it. So people should be mad at Disney, not the other way around.

And frankly, Disney needs Spidey. They're losing all the mainstays in the MCU and Spider-Man is their biggest character at the end of the day. So the fact they're being so shortsighted is hilarious. This is just more reason to exit the MCU.

I'm personally happy if Spidey is freed from the MCU. I am sick of the MCU. It's too much, and it's being handled really badly lately. Captain Marvel was shoehorned in out of nowhere and her film creates tons of plotholes in the MCU, and she amounted to very little in End Game so why was she even there? They should've added Nova since there's actually setup for him being in there (either one). And then introduced Cheese Theft's boring character in the next phase and went from there. But nope. Gotta have that "progressive" movie about womyn, because nobody ever made a female superhero movie until then. And nobody wanted Black Widow to get a movie years ago... stupid.

I'm tired of Spidey being DLC for the MCU and not the focus of his own films. I doubt Sony loses Tom Holland in this deal. Make a new solo film with the same creative team (pretty sure they're already signed on for a 3rd film). Improve Venom 2 (I love the first one, but w/e if people want say it sucks fine). Then do a Spider-Man/Venom film. I think Sony can easily hit a billion with their next Spider-Man and Venom films without Marvel or Disney.

And I think Disney knows that on some level. But Disney is desperate for money. Disney+ is costing billions to setup. Fox cost them 71 billion. Way more than they ever wanted to pay for it. Galaxy's Edges cost over a billion each, even with budget cuts. And the Disney Land one isn't going so hot, park attendance is down ,bookings are down. They spent billions on SW, and now Star Wars can't sell merch to save it's life. It's a dust gatherer on every local clearance rack near you.

Disney is a mess right now and they're trying to make more money to offset all their spending and loses. But risking losing Spider-Man going into a new phase of the MCU that is virtually all new characters (and Thor is very likely to be out after the next film; and is already being sidelined by that retarded fem-Thor - it's his name... you don't become George Washington if you win the presidency, such a stupid concept. Jane wielding the hammer would be lame and derivative but at least give her her own title instead of just giving her somebody's birth name; derivative characters aren't exactly a new thing to superheroes, but Thor is the dude's name. That's just dumb... I digress, but I hate that character).
 

[Milktastrophe]

I heard Disney is going to buy Sony because of this, in order to get Spidey back. For the Disney PlayStation 5 they're probably going to change the platinum trophy to a picture of Mickey mouse.

[Elvick_]

21 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said:

 

Is it though? They are still marvel characters in origin.  Disney now owns Marvel, are they not entitled to something?  The question is, how much are they asking for, and how much is reasonable?

Marvel only exists because of Sony, Fox, and Universal buying the film rights to Marvel characters. That's how they managed to stay afloat long enough to become what they are today.

Is Sony not entitled to what they literally paid for? Hint, they are. Disney is owed jack shit. Sony agreed to something pretty fair and now Disney wants more. Disney already gets the merch sales, and 5% of the box office when Sony shoulders the financial side of all the MCU spider-man films while Marvel got to have creative control. And i don't think Sony even gets a piece of the Avengers films that Spider-Man is in, instead Sony is free to make other Spider-Man adjacent films like Spider-Verse and Venom.

How is it not fair? Sony didn't have to do anything with Marvel at all.

 

And people need to stop pretending TAS was a bad film. You may not like Garfield, but that doesn't make the movie bad. There are more bad MCU films than there are bad Spider-Man films. I'd much rather watch Spider-Man 3 and TAS2 than Iron Man 3 and Thor 2.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Elvick_

[TheLakota]

2 minutes ago, danceswithsloths said:

They would be lower than the initial deal with Disney, definitely, my argument is that they would still probably be higher than the profits made from shit movies like TASM 2, which is what they will now be forced to return to. 

 

They wouldn't be forced to return to anything.

 

Much more goes into filmmaking than just being a faceless corporation. Before TASM Sony had the absolutely wonderful original trilogy (I liked 3, let's battle) and later on went to release the perfect Into the Spider-verse.

 

So long as they can retain star writing talent such as Phil Lord, they're going to be just fine.

5 minutes ago, Elvick_ said:

Marvel only exists because of Sony, Fox, and Universal buying the film rights to Marvel characters. That's how they managed to stay afloat long enough to become what they are today.

 

Don't forget Blade, damnit. The entire industry owes fealty to New Line for saving their collective asses. I contend that without Blade and the original X-Men/Spiderman, we wouldn't have Marvel films today.

[danceswithsloths]

30 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

They wouldn't be forced to return to anything.

 

Much more goes into filmmaking than just being a faceless corporation. Before TASM Sony had the absolutely wonderful original trilogy (I liked 3, let's battle) and later on went to release the perfect Into the Spider-verse.

Like I said to the other guy, the first two spider-man films were great, and all three succeeded really well, but the movie market wasn't flooded with superhero movies yet, and I honestly doubt that they can capture that same lightning in a bottle for a second time. Spider-verse was really good and if they could make a live action movie that good, then you are definitely correct, they'll be fine, we'll just have to wait and see. I'm expecting more TASM quality movies, hopefully I'm wrong.

Edited August 21, 2019 by danceswithsloths

[DaivRules]

18 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

Don't forget Blade, damnit. The entire industry owes fealty to New Line for saving their collective asses. I contend that without Blade and the original X-Men/Spiderman, we wouldn't have Marvel films today.

 

Too many people forget about Blade, the first MSU movie...

 

I'm glad Sony took their stance on this, but I also think it's the first stage of negotiation and Disney knows how to play the long game. Just check out the copyright on Mickey if you have any doubt.

[majob]

1 hour ago, Milktastrophe said:

I heard Disney is going to buy Sony because of this, in order to get Spidey back. For the Disney PlayStation 5 they're probably going to change the platinum trophy to a picture of Mickey mouse.

It's almost impossible for a foreigner to purchase a Japanese company and even if that weren't the case, it's highly unlikely Disney has the liquid assets to make an enticing offer

 

EDIT: whoops

Edited August 21, 2019 by majob

[Jamescush147]

Marvel needs Spider-Man more then Spider-Man needs Marvel. Especially since Phase 4 looks so terrible.

Hopefully this mean no more lame Iron-Spider. I hated this aspect of the character.

[AJ_-_808]

52 minutes ago, Elvick_ said:

Marvel only exists because of Sony, Fox, and Universal buying the film rights to Marvel characters. That's how they managed to stay afloat long enough to become what they are today.

Is Sony not entitled to what they literally paid for? Hint, they are. Disney is owed jack shit.

 

No one is arguing against that, but you cant fairly say Disney is owned nothing.  Sony/Fox etc didnt buy the characters, they bought the rights to use them. Those rights revert to the owner (disney) if a movie isnt made every X years.

 

You can't say spiderman, and by extension venom,isnt enjoying more popularity after joining the MCU.  Surely that should be worth something.  If we dont know how much their asking for, we shouldn't be bringing out the pitchforks just yet

[SelectiveGamer]

So much for Tom Hardy's Venom taking on Tom Holland's Spider-Man... ?

 

If there's another damn reboot I don't think I'll be able to get myself to watch it anymore. That's 4 reboots in the last decade or so. That's 4 too many. I actually like what they've been doing recently.

 

Make the damn deal Sony. ?

Edited August 21, 2019 by SelectiveGamer

[majob]

6 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said:

 

No one is arguing against that, but you cant fairly say Disney is owned nothing.  Sony/Fox etc didnt buy the characters, they bought the rights to use them. Those rights revert to the owner (disney) if a movie isnt made every X years.

 

You can't say spiderman, and by extension venom,isnt enjoying more popularity after joining the MCU.  Surely that should be worth something.  If we dont know how much their asking for, we shouldn't be bringing out the pitchforks just yet

It doesn't work that way. As owners of all film rights to Spiderman and its related properties, Disney isn't owed a single red cent of any profits from films featuring them. Owning the characters means nothing in this case. Also, regardless of what the percentage is, Disney really overstepped with that demand as they're essentially demanding tribute from Sony in a sense and I'd scoff at such treatment as well

[ZenaxPure]

1 hour ago, Elvick_ said:

It's not about movies. It's about merch. Games get to that point too, Pokemon merch makes far more than the games ever will. And the games are highly successful.

 

This is exactly the example I was going to bring up as well. Based on wikipedia so might not be 100% accurate but for Pokemon they've made $64 billion off the merch compared to only $17 bil from all the games. That's also not including the card game which is another $10 bil, so more like $74 bil total. It's a completely titanic gap between the games vs merch. 

[TheLakota]

44 minutes ago, majob said:

It's almost impossible for a foreigner to purchase a Japanese company and even if that weren't the case, it's highly unlikely Disney has the liquid assets to make an enticing offer

 

[majob]

Just now, TheLakota said:

 

Yeah, I feel dumb now

[Vergil]

Now every Marvel fan hate Sony lol. 

While im not into all this as much as others. A Venom and Spiderman movie would be fun to watch. Hope that happens. 

 

In all its just about the money. One is greedier than the other. 

[danceswithsloths]

3 hours ago, Elvick_ said:

And people need to stop pretending TAS was a bad film. You may not like Garfield, but that doesn't make the movie bad. There are more bad MCU films than there are bad Spider-Man films. I'd much rather watch Spider-Man 3 and TAS2 than Iron Man 3 and Thor 2.

Nobody is pretending. The ASM movies blew. I didnt mind Garfield, it was everything else that sucked, like the story. and the enemies. Their version of Hobgoblin was the absolute dumbest enemy ever. You can remain in denial all you want but they are the worst reviewed and worst selling live action Spider Man movies ever made, and that says more about the quality of the movies than you ever can. 

 

And of course there are more bad MCU films than Spidey films, cuz there's waaay more MCU movies in general. There's also more good MCU movies than good Spidey movies for the same reason. Out of 5 live Sony Spider Man movies, 3 of them sucked. That's a 60% rate. The percentage of bad MCU movies is much lower than 60% for sure.

 

Thats like comparing a group of 50 random people to a group of 7 random people, then saying "there's more assholes in the group of 50 people than there is in the group of 7". Obviously there is, considering the much larger amount of them.

Edited August 22, 2019 by danceswithsloths

[LordWikii]

It's incredible how this article from 2017 basically predicted this whole situation that Sony is in.

https://www.mtrnetwork.net/sony-lost-spider-man/

[cris3f]

I just think this is laughable. Sony who likes to be greedy and treats (almost) everyone like shit was given the same treatment from someone bigger than them. Fantastic, should happen more often, perhaps they'll learn a thing or two. ?

 

Sony Pictures is one of the worst run Sony divisions. Has been hemorrhaging money like crazy for years, so it's them who need the deal, surely not Disney who has plenty of options.

 

Tough luck... 

 

 

[Super-Fly Spider-Guy]

I'm *incredibly* glad.

 

Spider-Verse was fantastic, Venom was better than it should have been, meanwhile (though I think Tom is great in the role) Spider-Man has been utter trash in the MCU, like I like his movies fine, and even enjoyed Far From Home, but they pale to the near-perfect Holy Trilogy of the 00s. I think Tom is fine in the role but fuck, they NEED to get rid of this Iron Boy Jr. bullshit already. 

 

Whatever it takes to get Sony one step closer to greenlighting Spider-Man 4 with Tobey (or a live action Spider-Verse, I'm down), is the right thing to do.

[Snackerblaster]

6 minutes ago, Super-Fly Spider-Guy said:

I'm *incredibly* glad.

 

Spider-Verse was fantastic, Venom was better than it should have been, meanwhile (though I think Tom is great in the role) Spider-Man has been utter trash in the MCU, like I like his movies fine, and even enjoyed Far From Home, but they pale to the near-perfect Holy Trilogy of the 00s. I think Tom is fine in the role but fuck, they NEED to get rid of this Iron Boy Jr. bullshit already. 

 

Whatever it takes to get Sony one step closer to greenlighting Spider-Man 4 with Tobey (or a live action Spider-Verse, I'm down), is the right thing to do.

This fucking "IRon bOy" shit is so tiring and is literally over exaggerated as fuck, and simply not true if you can think 

[TheLakota]

21 minutes ago, Snackerblaster said:

This fucking "IRon bOy" shit is so tiring and is literally over exaggerated as fuck, and simply not true if you can think 

 

Ah, I see, so those of us who feel the father-son relationship between Tony and Peter is a bit too on the nose in it's unimaginative portrayal, or the rushed character development and utter lack of exposition in Marvel's lazy attempt to both introduce and justify Peter's inclusion in Civil War too indicative of a cash grab, are all just morons? Makes perfect sense bro.

[AJ_-_808]

3 hours ago, majob said:

It doesn't work that way. As owners of all film rights to Spiderman and its related properties, Disney isn't owed a single red cent of any profits from films featuring them. Owning the characters means nothing in this case. Also, regardless of what the percentage is, Disney really overstepped with that demand as they're essentially demanding tribute from Sony in a sense and I'd scoff at such treatment as well

 

Correct, legally, it works as you said.  However, clearly Disney feels differently and whether they're right or wrong as to whether they're owed something for their (marvel's) creation, they're attempting to leverage their asset (the MCU) to get what they feel is fair.

 

Hence the failed deal

[Conor]

9 hours ago, Varhur said:

What you don't understand is that there will be Spiderman movies, just not in MCU universe. Don't be egoistic, what you hate others may love.

 

Best to ignore him, he's a known troll

[Super-Fly Spider-Guy]

1 hour ago, Snackerblaster said:

This fucking "IRon bOy" shit is so tiring and is literally over exaggerated as fuck, and simply not true if you can think 

If you can think, you would be sick of these by the numbers cookie cutter movies a good while back.

 

But no. "Wow, I really wanna impress Mr. Stark. Mr. Stark, Mr. Stark, Mr. Stark. What if Mr. Stark needs me?" What if you were your own fucking person like you've always been, Pete? And not just some moron idolizing a war profiteer, who has literally put the entire world *this* close to extinction, who basically kidnapped you and blackmailed you with the threat of outing you to your aunt, who is gross around said aunt too, who left you on your own completely until he was like "well fuck, maybe I can use this kid again" when all his other friends were in jail because he god damn had a guilty conscience *over shit that would NOT have been possible without him, Ultron* and wanted government authority to step in and dictate when he and his "friends" could and could not do hero shit, like no Peter, I'd have thought by your second movie you'd have half a brain and wise up to old man Stark's bullshit but I guess you really can't speak ill of the dead.

 

Tony is a bad guy. Iron Man 1-3 were dope and his part in Avengers 1 was also great. But after that, he's proved time and time again, even with good intentions that he is more trouble than he's worth. My boi Spidey does not need to idolize such a shit person. Cap should have been Pete's mentor, they are so fucking similar and *actual decent human beings* that it sucks Spidey's been twisted into Tony's bullshit and IF the Sony deal doesn't work out (they will likely reneg on it tbh), the only shame is that Peter never got to outgrow the shadow of that guy.

[majob]

2 hours ago, AJ_-_808 said:

 

Correct, legally, it works as you said.  However, clearly Disney feels differently and whether they're right or wrong as to whether they're owed something for their (marvel's) creation, they're attempting to leverage their asset (the MCU) to get what they feel is fair.

 

Hence the failed deal

And Disney will likely be waiting outside in the cold, foolishly waiting for Sony to come crawling back while Sony sits in their cabin sipping hot tea, not caring in the slightest. Into the Spiderverse won an Oscar and was a good success on its own so Sony can most likely feel very justified in wanting to go it alone and keep 100% of the money and not tether themselves to the MCU when it would cost them more than it would bring in.