X-Cyberpunk

X-Cyberpunk's Dispute

83 posts in this topic

11 hours ago, mekktor said:

 

Pretty sure you could double up on trophy screenshots by using backup and restore, which copies over images but not trophy data. I don't think that's what happened here though, especially given the timestamps on the pictures.

 

How can you double up on it without deleting the old screenshots?

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1 hour ago, MMDE said:

 

How can you double up on it without deleting the old screenshots?

 

After backup and restore, your system would have all the trophy screenshots but no trophy data. So if you then start the game up and earn the trophies again, I assume it would create new screenshots in addition to the old ones, right? As for whether this happened here, no idea. I didn't really follow this dispute too closely. I just wanted to point this out in response to that specific point in case it was relevant.

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The timestamps on the pictures don't match your trophies.

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58 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

The timestamps on the pictures don't match your trophies.

 

You mean the 80 seconds between the platinum timestamp and its screenshot? That would just be the system taking longer to process all 22 screenshots, right? I know for example my latest PS4 plat timestamp is +0s but the screenshot is +4s.

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Received message from OP to conclude this. I don't personally think this should be lifted. 

 

I've come to this conclusion with the following considerations : The game can't be legitimately earned this quickly, and this is an unknown 'unique' oddity that can't be reproduced, OP is a team account, the known general knowledge that the oldest timestamps are used and not overwritten by newer timestamps, the fact the OP is no stranger to exploiting things within games as shown here. 

 

I find it more likely someone accidentally did something by mistake that breaks the rules, and the provided screenshots are either forged, or "half true" but still being used to misrepresent what actually happened.

 

I could be considered to put this in a whitelist category should that ever be implemented though.

 

Edited by B1rvine
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Well, personally I lean towards lifting... :P 

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9 hours ago, B1rvine said:

I find it more likely someone accidentally did something by mistake that breaks the rules, and the provided screenshots are either forged, or "half true" but still being used to misrepresent what actually happened.

 

Is "more likely" really the standard you should use to justify a flag? Cheaters will always have more opportunities to screw up and get removed later. People who are wrongly flagged are just stuck with that forever. Isn't it better to let a possible cheater off (for now) if it means innocent people aren't so easily caught up in it all?

 

Not to mention the fact that removing a clean profile could easily cause more damage to the site's stats than leaving a cheated profile would cause.

Edited by mekktor
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1 hour ago, B1rvine said:

 

Edit: OP will probably be unflagged by @MMDE though, if he decides accordingly to the discussion we had earlier.

 

 

No offense to MMDE, but 2 guys say flag and 1 says lift, so it will probably get lifted? How does that work? At the end of the day, the timestamps are still impossible and has a huge affect on the leaderboard, making the disputer #1 fastest.

 

Cant help but feel that just screams preferrerntial treatment

Edited by AJ_-_808
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MMDE will have to decide how he rules (He has the final say) but i'm in favor of the most votes. if the community says it's not right well i gotta agree with the community.

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50 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said:

No offense to MMDE, but 2 guys say flag and 1 says lift, so it will probably get lifted? How does that work? At the end of the day, the timestamps are still impossible and has a huge affect on the leaderboard, making the disputer #1 fastest.

Is the cheater removal team a democracy? I would like to know about the lesser know facts of the position. Also, I interpreted the official unofficial vote as 1 keep, 1 lift, 1 a white list feature would be nice.

 

I looked at all the data and I am not intelligent enough to do anything useful with it. Sorry, I can only share my thoughts and opinions on the matter.

 

Should claiming your illegitimate list was caused by a 1-1000 glitch and providing reasonable supporting evidence be grounds for getting lifted? Would it be a good practice to allow this practice going forward?

 

Holding the line and keeping it off the leaderboard is good practice. The list is illegitimate and should be treated as any other illegitimate list. The victums of Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto hackers had their lists removed because they are illegitimate, despite the user not cheating. I don't see how this is any different from those other cases. Anything that is illegitimate should be removed, regardless of circumstances.

 

Glitches are okay by the official PSNP rules and this was, supposedly, a glitch. Despite there being no other know cases of this glitch, it should be treated the same as any other. The original poster did provide evidence to back up their story. The safe call would be to let them go free. It is better to let a cheater go free sometimes then convict a rule abiding PSNP member who just unlucky. If they are a cheater, they will keep cheating, mess up again and get caught. Even if they're a cheater, maybe they will stop after this close call and redeem themselves.

 

I'm frankly conflicted on this dispute. The white list system would be the best solution but we don't have it. We could keep this dispute open until that option exists or retroactively give the original poster the privilege. Hold the line or let it go? The result could shape the future or everyone will forget in a week.

 

It's a 60-40 for me. The 60 is in favor of letting him go. At the moment, there isn't any hard evidence supporting that the original poster is a cheater and/or they're lying. To my knowledge, they're 'dirty laundery' hasn't surfaced, therefore they're either really good at cheating or a honest rule abiding PSNP member. This situation is 'very odd' according to the experts, therefore I'm not confident to let them walk free. I feel like we are missing something but I'm not sure what the 'something' is.

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14 minutes ago, AuroraHistoire said:

Is the cheater removal team a democracy?

 

Its complicated. Most of the time we're in total agreement anyway, when it comes to resolving disputes at least.

 

18 minutes ago, AuroraHistoire said:

Would it be a good practice to allow this practice going forward?

 

Well, some of this was discussed privately earlier. One thing is certain, IF this is lifted, it's being considered a once in a lifetime glitch. Further disputes of this nature will need extraordinary evidence, and without that, if more suddenly start appearing it may be deemed this is done via CFW / trickery. As far as GTA V / CoDs being different, those are caused by hacks (deliberate or not), whereas this is being disputed as a glitch which is a huge difference. However, just because someone states a glitch occurred, doesn't mean its true. 

 

38 minutes ago, AuroraHistoire said:

At the moment, there isn't any hard evidence supporting that the original poster is a cheater and/or they're lying.

 

There are reasons scattered throughout the thread and briefly mentioned by me in my last few posts.

 

Anyway, I'm going to be checking some things tomorrow that should be very insightful.

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7 hours ago, mekktor said:

 

Is "more likely" really the standard you should use to justify a flag? Cheaters will always have more opportunities to screw up and get removed later. People who are wrongly flagged are just stuck with that forever. Isn't it better to let a possible cheater off (for now) if it means innocent people aren't so easily caught up in it all?

 

 

I would agree with this. If you can't definitively prove that he cheated then I think the flag should be lifted. Whether he is a team account or not is irrelevant according to this site. I don't believe you can definitively prove that either. This is an important decision that could affect a player that clearly cares about his trophies. It is good to see you are treating it fairly. Best of luck with your decision.

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2 hours ago, AuroraHistoire said:

Is the cheater removal team a democracy? I would like to know about the lesser know facts of the position. Also, I interpreted the official unofficial vote as 1 keep, 1 lift, 1 a white list feature would be nice.

 

Reread B1rvine's post. At the beginning it says "I dont personally think this should be lifted".

 

Therefore, 2 for the flag, 1 against.

 

Also, hasnt it been stated before that glitches need to be able to be reproduced?

 

Lastly, I think the affect on that particular leaderboard should be taken into consideration. #1 fastest would be illegitimate, nullifying the board

 

Edit- the effect of a whitelist would hide them from the leaderboard.  In the absence of that implementation, the only way to achieve that outcome is to leave the flag and potentially retroactively apply a white list later on

Edited by AJ_-_808
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Quote

Things that are flaggable:

  • Using a save file to auto-unlock trophies - If you use an external save file to auto-unlock trophies or advance you further into the game and the impossibility of normal circumstance can be proven via the timestamps, it's flaggable. This includes using your own save file to unlock trophies at an impossible time frame, be careful with this, always sync your trophies, and do not use your save file to earn trophies impossibly out of order.
  • Impossible timestamps - If your timestamps are too close to each other, earned unrealistically before the release date of the game (Journalists and similar people get games typically a week or two early, any time before this period that isn't explainable can get flagged), or earned impossibly out of order.

This honestly sounds like it falls under these two categories. Maybe I'm wrong, but if it CANNOT be reproduced, then surely it should stay flagged?

I mean I'm not saying this is what happened but if he got the plat on another user with the same first name, last name and avatar, surely it would be in the same screenshot folder? 


Anyway, it seems to me he can just hide it and move on. He would still have 1 flag left, so he can get back on the boards.

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If he only has 1 more flag left then this is an even more important decision. If there is any grey here I don't see how you can not lift this. He is the #1 player in Australia by a margin with a basically unblemished record. I think he has more than earned some level of trust on this one.

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2 hours ago, AffectatiousDonk said:

If he only has 1 more flag left then this is an even more important decision. If there is any grey here I don't see how you can not lift this. He is the #1 player in Australia by a margin with a basically unblemished record. I think he has more than earned some level of trust on this one.

No, he has 1 flag already. This would be his second.

I don't think having any flags earns any "trust", mate.

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5 hours ago, lordguwa said:

MMDE will have to decide how he rules (He has the final say) but i'm in favor of the most votes. if the community says it's not right well i gotta agree with the community.

Well the community isn’t always right, I don’t think you would have said the same thing if the flag was about to hurt your account 

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ps4 cheats are not really my area of expertise so perhaps someone with more knowledge could expand on the following questions: what would happen if the op was testing their own save file to upload it to be used as an insta-pop file for others?...

 

example: plays game completely offline...does not sync trophies...creates save via USB...loads up to test...dings trophies...accidentally syncs new list...possibly by going online thinking the old will overwrite the new...

 

would the created (2nd) save file overwrite and erase the original data?...would this cause multiple screenshots?...

 

a quick link of what the save file process looks like...

 

Edited by ProfBambam55
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1 hour ago, Nitro said:

No, he has 1 flag already. This would be his second.

I don't think having any flags earns any "trust", mate.

 

Trust is relatively if you can’t prove he did it you have to entertain he didn’t. If he did by all means off with his head. Anyway I will respect the decision either way. It is what it is.

Edited by AffectatiousDonk
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31 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

CUT

OT:

Paying $60 for soft to hack the save for game which can be done under 1h + ban on LB for free = facepalm.jpg.

Edited by Smashero
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1 hour ago, Smashero said:

OT:

Paying $60 for soft to hack the save for game which can be done under 1h + ban on LB for free = facepalm.jpg.

He has a game already hacked on his profile. It's not crazy to think he has been using this software for a while. I mean, who knows, maybe some games he does (or someone whom is part of his team/pays to get trophies for him) uses this software from time to time?

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Why not just make the user hide the game, but so long as he does, it doesn't count towards a flag? Obviously this should only apply to unique cases where they can provide evidence that they actually beat the game and accomplished the requirements and reasonable explanation of the glitch occurring. I think that is a good compromise since we don't know for sure it's legitimate, we are giving benefit of the doubt given the supplied proof, but it also ruins the integrity of the leaderboard when glitches/exploits occur that lead to impossible completion times and timestamps, whether these were malicious or accidental.

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