FFVIII Censorship

[XileLerinril]

7 minutes ago, thefourfoldroot said:

Most individual things are minor, but when part of a larger policy or societal change its then not. And do you really feel they had s woman's bush openly displayed in a videogame with this age rating? The rules are clear  It's a cover, and it's where it is due to what it's covering. Same as with Shiva. Do you have a source verifying otherwise?

You are using a slippery slope fallacy to make a mountain out of a mole hill. There has always been some censorship in games, and after almost twenty years it has nopt ruined the industry. There is no money in it, unlike micro transactions. They are not going to ruin your video games, and this minor change is not a stepping stone to some great push. It's a company trying to prevent an issue before it arises. As to your other point, there is a reason why I clarified in my first statement that the game's graphics back in the day were not sufficient and that it was unclear. It would not be the first time something like this has slipped under the radar. With the new graphics I think it would be a lot more clear what the intention was. I have never stopped to take a close look at Siren, but the ps1 image they are using looks a lot sharper then it would have back in the day, and it looks like hair to me.  The point is that it could be an easy mistake to make, unlike with say Shiva. I do not have a source claiming it is hair, but I don't need one. It is ambiguous enough that even if it is not, all it takes is someone on the review board to think otherwise and it is an issue. You stated it was not, as a fact, hence why I asked for clarification. Which you still have not provided. 

[thefourfoldroot]

31 minutes ago, fisty123 said:

While I am not going to get involved in this I can say that an article I seen the other day said Shiva was not touched and had screenshots to prove it. The source link however is a site that has a lot of sexual adds so not going to share it.

Exactly, because the caps are clearly not hair. Perhaps they thought the colouration would confuse people in the case of siren.

Edited September 3, 2019 by thefourfoldroot

[PaintP]

lmao, who even use GF in the game anyway? 

[thefourfoldroot]

25 minutes ago, XileLerinril said:

You are using a slippery slope fallacy to make a mountain out of a mole hill. There has always been some censorship in games, and after almost twenty years it has nopt ruined the industry. There is no money in it, unlike micro transactions. They are not going to ruin your video games, and this minor change is not a stepping stone to some great push. It's a company trying to prevent an issue before it arises. As to your other point, there is a reason why I clarified in my first statement that the game's graphics back in the day were not sufficient and that it was unclear. It would not be the first time something like this has slipped under the radar. With the new graphics I think it would be a lot more clear what the intention was. I have never stopped to take a close look at Siren, but the ps1 image they are using looks a lot sharper then it would have back in the day, and it looks like hair to me.  The point is that it could be an easy mistake to make, unlike with say Shiva. I do not have a source claiming it is hair, but I don't need one. It is ambiguous enough that even if it is not, all it takes is someone on the review board to think otherwise and it is an issue. You stated it was not, as a fact, hence why I asked for clarification. Which you still have not provided. 

Logic should be proof enough, but if you see hair then I guess others might too. And I don't disagree that this might be to please a ratings board, but the other changes, and the knowledge of their so called "ethics board" indicate it could very well not be to hit a certain age rating but rather another example of the increasing encroachment if puritanism in our hobby. I'm not talking about slippery slopes, this generation simply has less tolerant values than previous generations and it's showing in all entertainment media. In fact all media generally one way or the other.

Edited September 3, 2019 by thefourfoldroot

[El Duderino]

16 hours ago, sephiroth4424 said:

Did they seriously add one string to the harp?? 

What has the world come down to?

Say 'thanks' to Anita Sarkeesian and some other crazy-ass idiots.

[Lance_87]

I wonder if the Siren card has been changed, too. I'm curious as they redesigned most (if not all) cards to look like their "physical" counterparts.

[PancakeTrans]

3 hours ago, PaintP said:

lmao, who even use GF in the game anyway? 

Yeah I gotta say, without the "outrage" over the censorship, I'd have never noticed. Played FF8 at least 10 times since initial release, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've ever summoned Siren total. Diablos/Cactuar are sorta useful, but realistically, I end up veering straight back to Aura->Limit spam every boss battle.

[Lance_87]

Someone wrote a negative review on Steam where he mentioned "politically corrected" language, but i cannot find any proof about it. And he probably will never provide any.

 

And another reviewer wrote this: "Lemme just head the "muh censorship" guys off at the pass. The original designer of a summon disliked a panty shot he put on Siren, so he personally redesigned it. if you see someone complaining about censorship they're a baby who want to find something to complain."

 

Any source on this?

Edited September 3, 2019 by Lance_87

[thefourfoldroot]

23 hours ago, Senor_T_Dub said:

I understand the knee-jerk reaction to the changes made in FFVIII, but I think we should be classifying it for what it is. Best case scenario the game was changed to better fit their vision, worse case scenario it was changed to avoid a PR backlash, in either case it is not censorship. A government body didn’t make them change anything, Sony did not require changes to release the game, ratings boards did not require a change for a teen rating.

 

A self-imposed change is not censorship and calling it such is a disservice to places like Hong Kong, China or even the US journalism industry that is dealing with real censorship issues.

 

I am not implying people should or should not be upset by the changes (personally I don’t care) but let’s make sure to separate the issue at hand from serious issues of censorship. 

Semantics. The result is the same, which is what matters. Bowing to another group's sense of moral superiority.

[Lance_87]

Someone who got the Steam version of Remaster said that the savegames from the 2013 version are compatible LOL.

 

That said, Ultimecia seem to be NOT censored, at least.

[DaivRules]

1 hour ago, Lance_87 said:

Someone wrote a negative review on Steam where he mentioned "politically corrected" language, but i cannot find any proof about it. And he probably will never provide any.

 

And another reviewer wrote this: "Lemme just head the "muh censorship" guys off at the pass. The original designer of a summon disliked a panty shot he put on Siren, so he personally redesigned it. if you see someone complaining about censorship they're a baby who want to find something to complain."

 

Any source on this?

 

There is a quote here from that same designer that his Tifa changes in VII weren't the censorship that it's being made out to be: 

https://kotaku.com/what-tetsuya-nomura-actually-said-about-tifas-breasts-i-1835726320

 

Nothing I can find right now on VIII. I'll keep looking.

[JadedReign]

#freethebush 

I've always been at odds with censorship, no matter how seemingly benign or small, because it's an alteration of an original piece/concept to make it more palatable for a certain audience. It's reductive. And those who are being "protected" usually know what they're being shielded from, and if not, they're suddenly going to get a lot more curious and look into it themselves. What was that called, again? The Streisand Effect? 

I remember my 11-year old self seeing Siren summoned for the first time in the original FF8 and my first thought was "Oh. She's naked." And that was the end of it.

YMMV. 

 

[thefourfoldroot]

6 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

 

There is a quote here from that same designer that his Tifa changes in VII weren't the censorship that it's being made out to be: 

https://kotaku.com/what-tetsuya-nomura-actually-said-about-tifas-breasts-i-1835726320

 

Nothing I can find right now on VIII. I'll keep looking.

Actually, it says:

 

"there were also directions from our internal ethics committee that as not to make even the most intense action look unnatural it was necessary to bind [Tifa’s] chest. "

 

Binding them so they don't behave naturally during fighting scenes is what he actually means. i.e. he did not want a lot of attention drawn to them by the bouncing. As decided by the ethics committee. Ethics committee. Ethics. Because the alternative, perfectly natural movement, would be unethical it seems.

 

Telling a development team to change something that would naturally otherwise occur, and was already set to happen in the game, for the sake of perceived ethics, is skirting very close to censorship for me.

[DaivRules]

Just now, thefourfoldroot said:

Actually, it says:

 

"there were also directions from our internal ethics committee that as not to make even the most intense action look unnatural it was necessary to bind [Tifa’s] chest. "

 

Binding them so they don't behave naturally during fighting scenes is what he actually means. i.e. he did not want a lot of attention drawn to them by the bouncing. As decided by the ethics committee. Ethics committee. Ethics. Because the alternative, perfectly natural movement, would be unethical it seems.

 

Telling a development team to change something that would naturally otherwise occur, and was already set to happen in the game, for the sake of perceived ethics, is skirting very close to censorship for me.

 

You cherry picked one sentence to fit your agenda. I linked to the whole quote for people who actually want to read the entirety of it and interpret it without the bias you're clearly showing.

[thefourfoldroot]

23 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

 

You cherry picked one sentence to fit your agenda. I linked to the whole quote for people who actually want to read the entirety of it and interpret it without the bias you're clearly showing.

I quoted what was relevant, but if you want it all:

 

"Nomura: This time, visually there were things that were made quite real, and real-world clothing and accessories are being used as design references. For example, we’re referencing military (wear) for Tifa’s suspenders and martial arts and biker (wear) for the gloves. The full body silhouette hasn’t changed from the original image, and from that part, we’ve aimed to increase the minute details.

 

First of all, since we wanted Tifa to have defined abs, we made her more athletic looking. And then, there were also directions from our internal ethics committee that as not to make even the most intense action look unnatural it was necessary to bind [Tifa’s] chest. And thus, for her simple upper body clothing, we put a black undergarment with a fitting tank top for a fitness-conscious, sporty design. "

 

Doesn't change anything in what I said though does it?

Edited September 3, 2019 by thefourfoldroot

[Seraphim_Rez]

For the people complaining about the ethics department, you know that's been a thing since the rating boards right? It's not a new concept. Most, if not all, media companies have them. In the West, they're often called "Standards and Practices Department."

[thefourfoldroot]

1 minute ago, Seraphim_Rez said:

For the people complaining about the ethics department, you know that's been a thing since the rating boards right? It's not a new concept. Most, if not all, media companies have them. In the West, they're often called "Standards and Practices Department."

Yep.

[mecharobot]

Considering that this seems to be the version closer to the true artistic vision, does this mean things like Squall's dialogue have also been restored, or did SE use up their time fixing Siren's skirt?

Edited September 3, 2019 by mecharobot

[Lance_87]

5 minutes ago, Seraphim_Rez said:

For the people complaining about the ethics department, you know that's been a thing since the rating boards right? It's not a new concept. Most, if not all, media companies have them. In the West, they're often called "Standards and Practices Department."

 

So, in other words, the worls is full of what they're now called "functional illiterates". Not surprised, especially after spending a few days in the Steam forums for this game.

[thefourfoldroot]

7 minutes ago, mecharobot said:

Considering that this seems to be the version closer to the true artistic vision, does this mean things like Squall's dialogue have also been restored, or did SE use up their time fixing Siren's skirt?

How is it closer to the true artistic vision? Did the technology of the day disallow skirts on Siren and require cleavage?

[AJ_-_808]

24 minutes ago, thefourfoldroot said:

Actually, it says:

 

"there were also directions from our internal ethics committee that as not to make even the most intense action look unnatural it was necessary to bind [Tifa’s] chest. "

 

Binding them so they don't behave naturally during fighting scenes is what he actually means. i.e. he did not want a lot of attention drawn to them by the bouncing. As decided by the ethics committee. Ethics committee. Ethics. Because the alternative, perfectly natural movement, would be unethical it seems.

 

Telling a development team to change something that would naturally otherwise occur, and was already set to happen in the game, for the sake of perceived ethics, is skirting very close to censorship for me.

I dont know, I read that as they did it to make sure actions didnt look unnatural.

 

"not to make even the most intense action look unnatural"

[thefourfoldroot]

1 minute ago, AJ_-_808 said:

I dont know, I read that as they did it to make sure actions didnt look unnatural.

 

"not to make even the most intense action look unnatural"

And what would be unnatural? And keep mind some of the other attire in this fictional world of magic. They are using "unnatural" to mean fetishized, obviously.

Edited September 3, 2019 by thefourfoldroot

[mecharobot]

1 minute ago, thefourfoldroot said:

How is it closer to the true artistic vision? Did the technology of the day disallow skirts on Siren and require cleavage?

I don't know, perhaps you should consult Square-Enix on that. I'm just quoting what I'm reading here. *cough* sarcasm

[Seraphim_Rez]

This whole "censorship" thing is getting ridiculous. People are always looking for the next game that is "censored" so they can go and cry about it online. They don't care whether or not the devs willingly made changes because times have changed or they just felt like redesigning it just because or ratings standards have changed or that ethics departments have been around for decades. They just want to whine about SJWs or feminists or whatever strawman they choose ruining games.

 

Saying a game is ruined over a skirt length, a single CG being zoomed to avoid showing panties, cleavage being slightly more covered that honestly you wouldn't notice if no one told you, or god forbid a woman wearing a fucking sports bra...it's just...like why? Does this stuff matter so much to you? Does the game's mechanics no longer function?

How did you survive in the 90s when stuff was even more edited than before?

 

Games have been censored and changed since games were a thing an they seem to be doing just fine.

 

As for the talk about Tifa? Wearing a spots bra is just practical clothing for any athletic woman. With someone of her chest size, having no support would be extremely painful and awkward.

And no, don't say it's "not in the lore." For all we know, the underwear of choice for men in the world of Gaia could be banana hammocks.

But you weren't going to buy the game anyway.

[Gone Fishing]

.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Fragtaster