AJ_-_808 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 20 minutes ago, thefourfoldroot said: And what would be unnatural? And keep mind some of the other attire in this fictional world of magic. They are using "unnatural" to mean fetishized, obviously. Would you naturally go into a combat situation with big boobs bouncing everywhere, or would you select attire to keep them in place? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerminusCross Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 On 9/2/2019 at 0:39 PM, damon8r351 said: IDGAF, it's still a Final Fantasy game and no amount of crotch coverup will change that. You lot act like Final Fantasy censorship is new. Fun Fact: When Final Fantasy VI was localized for North America as Final Fantasy "III", numerous changes were made. For instance, the Siren Esper's bare ass was covered up. Town signs that said "Bar" were changed to "Cafe". The Holy spell was changed to "Pearl" because it was a religious allusion. Several dialogues from Kefka were softened: instead of "Go! Kill them!" he says, "Go! Get them!"; instead of saying "Then you can burn to death!", he says "Then welcome to my barbeque!". And of course, the most famous line of all, "Son of a submariner!", was not in the original script, because he says something a lot more profane. Like the Japanese version of "Son of a bitch!" or "Damn it!". Anyway, this is manufactured outrage, something to write about and get mad about because it was a slow news day when it broke. You folks are falling for it hook line and stinker. Aye, FFVI is my favorite, I remember reading all that before. There was also the Atma Weapon that says, Puny humans, go! when in the Japanese he says, worthless humans, die! FFIV suffered some censorship too, like when you rescue Rosa from Golbez when she's trapped in a chair with a blade hanging over her. The NA version had a big ball instead. (the blade returns in the PS1 port) So this censorship stuff is old. What I don’t get is the reasoning behind the decisions they make. So getting crushed to death is alright but being sliced up isn't? In the SNES version Celes gets heaten by a guard under South Figaro. It was okay to leve that in, but they took it out of the PS1 port? I don’t really get it. Also as a side note I thought it was pretty bold to include suicide in FFVI, at least back then. :/ I suppose that's not as offending as boobs and asses and cussing though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefourfoldroot Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Seraphim_Rez said: This whole "censorship" thing is getting ridiculous. People are always looking for the next game that is "censored" so they can go and cry about it online. They don't care whether or not the devs willingly made changes because times have changed or they just felt like redesigning it just because or ratings standards have changed or that ethics departments have been around for decades. They just want to whine about SJWs or feminists or whatever strawman they choose ruining games. Saying a game is ruined over a skirt length, a single CG being zoomed to avoid showing panties, cleavage being slightly more covered that honestly you wouldn't notice if no one told you, or god forbid a woman wearing a fucking sports bra...it's just...like why? Does this stuff matter so much to you? Does the game's mechanics no longer function? How did you survive in the 90s when stuff was even more edited than before? Games have been censored and changed since games were a thing an they seem to be doing just fine. As for the talk about Tifa? Wearing a spots bra is just practical clothing for any athletic woman. With someone of her chest size, having no support would be extremely painful and awkward. And no, don't say it's "not in the lore." For all we know, the underwear of choice for men in the world of Gaia could be banana hammocks. But you weren't going to buy the game anyway. 1) nobody is saying it ruins a game but, for me at least, whenever it were to crop up it would be a slap in the face; a big "you're too immature" or "you're a misogynist for liking to look at breasts" or whatever, in games, films, TV, art, etc. 2) if it doesn't matter then why not be equally critical (or more so) of those who actively seek (and succeed) in changing games through promising ruinously bad PR or other more hidden tactics. You seem only to critisise those bemoaning things being removed and changed and not those campaigning for these apparently meaningless changes. That seems to indicate you are actually taking a moral stance. 3) we have to keep a look out because of the secretive actions of Sony, Steam etc. They refuse to outline their policy for fear of annoying people so sneak changes through without comment and often inconsistently. It's a mess. 4) The reasons are not that these devs have suddenly decided what they made all those years ago is bad (unless completely brainwashed by the current generation) but rather because they feel "times have changed" and they have to, or likely their publishers for e them to, as in an ethics committee. Also, what does the reason matter? I'm going to the Vatican tomorrow and I'm going to see lots of statues with their penises removed. Will annoy me in the same way. 5) Lots of bad rubbish happened in the past. What does that have to do with continuing to support it? 6) I am going to buy FFVII remix. But I'll get it second hand so as not to support Sony during their current puritan phase. 19 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said: Would you naturally go into a combat situation with big boobs bouncing everywhere, or would you select attire to keep them in place? I'm not a fictional female videogame character designed by men and to appeal to a primarily male audience. If I were they would probably bounce prettily and appear impressive in size. As they dud for Tiffa all those years ago, before we decided breasts were offensive to women. Edited September 3, 2019 by thefourfoldroot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Fishing Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) . Edited September 14, 2020 by Fragtaster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim_Rez Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 "Breasts were offensive to women" Didn't know my own body was offensive to me. 21 minutes ago, thefourfoldroot said: I'm not a fictional female videogame character designed by men and to appeal to a primarily male audience. If I were they would probably bounce prettily and appear impressive in size. As they dud for Tiffa all those years ago, before we decided breasts were offensive to women. Now games are made by diverse people and a ton of women play games now and make up a sizable portion of the Final Fantasy fanbase. It's okay for a character to no longer be pandering to males. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XileLerinril Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 46 minutes ago, thefourfoldroot said: And what would be unnatural? And keep mind some of the other attire in this fictional world of magic. They are using "unnatural" to mean fetishized, obviously. It seemed pretty clear to me that they don't want Tifa to have a pair of big double D boobs swinging all over the place while she fights. Physics and movement were not really a thing when FF7 came out. The closest we got was the cut scene on the Highwind where the weapons fly past and her boobs are bouncing around. With the much more realistic designs they are going for on the remake it would look really weird if she was flopping all over the place, plus it would not make sense in character. Why would she not be wearing some kind of sports bra, shes is a marital artist on an adventure of course she is going to be wearing the correct gear. Besides it's not like this is new, she was smaller when advent children came out, she was smaller in Kingdom Hearts, ect. Its not censorship, its more an evolving are design. Lots of character details were over emphasized or exaggerated back in the day to make up for what the graphics could not show. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim_Rez Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Just now, XileLerinril said: It seemed pretty clear to me that they don't want Tifa to have a pair of big double D boobs swinging all over the place while she fights. Physics and movement were not really a thing when FF7 came out. The closest we got was the cut scene on the Highwind where the weapons fly past and her boobs are bouncing around. With the much more realistic designs they are going for on the remake it would look really weird if she was flopping all over the place, plus it would not make sense in character. Why would she not be wearing some kind of sports bra, shes is a marital artist on an adventure of course she is going to be wearing the correct gear. Besides it's not like this is new, she was smaller when advent children came out, she was smaller in Kingdom Hearts, ect. Its not censorship, its more an evolving are design. Lots of character details were over emphasized or exaggerated back in the day to make up for what the graphics could not show. You just reminded me. Remember when Advent Children came out and it was near universal praise for her design and there was very little whining about covering up or breast reduction? Unless I was hanging out in the wrong forums or something. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefourfoldroot Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Seraphim_Rez said: "Breasts were offensive to women" Didn't know my own body was offensive to me. Now games are made by diverse people and a ton of women play games now and make up a sizable portion of the Final Fantasy fanbase. It's okay for a character to no longer be pandering to males. No,most women don't. That seems to be the current narrative though. Whereas in the past women battled for rights to their bodies, now displaying them is verboten to many an activist. And of course there's a much bigger audience, which is why it's perfectly acceptable to also have half naked men, proud trans and gay characters etc. What's your point? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XileLerinril Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Seraphim_Rez said: You just reminded me. Remember when Advent Children came out and it was near universal praise for her design and there was very little whining about covering up or breast reduction? Unless I was hanging out in the wrong forums or something. I mostly just read gamefaqs at the time, but the reaction seemed to mostly bu neutral to positive. There was some griping but I don't think anyone took it very seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seraphim_Rez Posted September 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2019 23 minutes ago, thefourfoldroot said: No,most women don't. That seems to be the current narrative though. Whereas in the past women battled for rights to their bodies, now displaying them is verboten to many an activist. And of course there's a much bigger audience, which is why it's perfectly acceptable to also have half naked men, proud trans and gay characters etc. What's your point? I should have added a sarcasm tag. No, my body is not offensive simply because I have boobs. I can wear what I want outside of work. You say displaying them is seen as bad for activists, but are you talking about real people or fictional characters? Because I chose what I wear (and many women would have no issue with another woman wearing a skimpy bikini at the beach as long as it's legal), whereas a fictional character does not. Someone chooses an outfit for them and makes them act a certain way. Women get upset about women showing lots of skin in a game because it's often done solely for the amusement and titillation of the straight male demographic which made up most of the gaming market until recently. They were portrayed as sex objects or someone to be rescued or in a supporting role, created from a male perspective. Also, positive portrayals of trans and gay characters are far and few between. Today, women are still fighting for rights to their bodies. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Undead Wolf Posted September 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2019 27 minutes ago, Seraphim_Rez said: Women get upset about women showing lots of skin in a game because it's often done solely for the amusement and titillation of the straight male demographic which made up most of the gaming market until recently. So what? Are you saying developers shouldn't be able to make games that target a male demographic? That's just silly. If hot women in video games bother you that much, then just don't buy them. No need to cry about it and harass the developers to be "more inclusive" like you people are known to do. Just play something else. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the vast majority of gamers are still male. Unless of course you actually believe this... 35 minutes ago, Seraphim_Rez said: Today, women are still fighting for rights to their bodies. Today, feminists are still fighting for the right to murder unborn children in their womb.* 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seraphim_Rez Posted September 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, Undead Wolf said: So what? Are you saying developers shouldn't be able to make games that target a male demographic? That's just silly. If hot women in video games bother you that much, then just don't buy them. No need to cry about it and harass the developers to be "more inclusive" like you people are known to do. Just play something else. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the vast majority of gamers are still male. Unless of course you actually believe this... Please show where I said it's not okay to have any sexy women in games or that I was offended it. You can be strong and sexy like Lara or Samus, it's when she is shown as nothing more than a sex object or a person to rescued a majority of the time that's the issue. 10 minutes ago, Undead Wolf said: Sorry to burst your bubble, but the vast majority of gamers are still male. Unless of course you actually believe this... More than half? Yeah. The vast majority? No. https://www.theesa.com/esa-research/2019-essential-facts-about-the-computer-and-video-game-industry/ 7 minutes ago, Undead Wolf said: Today, feminists are still fighting for the right to murder unborn children in their womb.* Clearly you are no longer interested in having a logical conversation so like Xile, it's time for me to hit the old dusty trail. 4 minutes ago, XileLerinril said: Yeah, it's clear they don't want to have a civil discussion at this point. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Startyde Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) The changes are interesting, I think they should be documented just for fact sake. I don't really care what my own opinion is, because this is a changed game from 20 years ago. The menus are changed, options are changed, and now certain graphics. I'll always have access to the PS1 version and image forever preserved to reference the original artistic vision for the time, and that is always cool. TL:DR: I can appreciate multiple versions of the same game. Much like I love RE1 for PS1 and REmake for the Gamecube equally, and they diverge quite massively. I haven't played REmake2 yet, but I imagine it's the same situation. Edited September 3, 2019 by Startyde 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Undead Wolf Posted September 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Seraphim_Rez said: Please show where I said it's not okay to have any sexy women in games or that I was offended it. You can be strong and sexy like Lara or Samus, it's when she is shown as nothing more than a sex object or a person to rescued a majority of the time that's the issue. Please do enlighten me as to why that's an "issue". Because you don't like it? Can't have those straight males having fun, can we? 17 minutes ago, Seraphim_Rez said: More than half? Yeah. The vast majority? No. https://www.theesa.com/esa-research/2019-essential-facts-about-the-computer-and-video-game-industry/ Completely missed the point I see. This study includes mobile/casual games, so of course the amount of female "gamers" is going to be inflated. Or what? You want to try and convince us that 40 year old housewives playing games on Facebook are gamers like us? Give me a break. Edited September 3, 2019 by Undead Wolf 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Wavergray Posted September 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Undead Wolf said: Completely missed the point I see. This study includes mobile/casual games, so of course the amount of female "gamers" is going to be inflated. Or what? You want to try and convince us that 40 year old housewives playing games on Facebook are gamers like us? Give me a break. So just because the mobile market/Facebook/Whatever may have games that girls like more than guys, those games don't count as "GAMER's games"? What are they fake games? What is the qualifications to be a "GAMER"? 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Undead Wolf Posted September 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Wavergray said: So just because the mobile market/Facebook/Whatever may have games that girls like more than guys, those games don't count as "GAMER's games"? What are they fake games? What is the qualifications to be a "GAMER"? Yes, exactly. Glad you people are finally starting to get it. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Wavergray Posted September 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, Undead Wolf said: Yes, exactly. Glad you people are finally starting to get it. I know you think that you are trolling or whatever, but you really just come off as sad. The "make my bad take seem like trolling" move is super old and doesn't work at all. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindMango Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) Allllrighty I'm gonna need to lock this for a little while because it's gotten derailed and you're starting to call each other names lol - I'll probably re-open it at some point later on with the hope the train can be put back on the tracks and all the smoke has settled Edit: Okay unlocked! This is a serious topic that has good value if everyone is able to talk or debate with each other in a way that doesn't resort to name-calling Edited September 5, 2019 by BlindMango 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Katt Posted September 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2019 after reading the whole thread, I'll sum it up for those who want to keep their sanity intact: FFVIII censorship -> censorship bad -> "wow, I didn't noticed!" -> fight -> more fight -> using kotaku as a valid source (lol) -> intense quoting action -> thread gets locked I don't like censorship, but every thread it's the same thing. There is no constructive discussion, just quote after quote saying the same thing. Nuke this thread and all the ones after this. There's no point to discuss in the recent times. Maybe in a few more years. Let's just play videogames. If you need to fight with someone, do it with this piece of trash. Peace. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance_87 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) Fun fact: the Siren G.F. model was altered, but the new Triple Triad card (new for this version, they changed all the images) shows the old design. Edited September 7, 2019 by Lance_87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiserVendrix Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Oh wow, it's been unlocked! Now I can say my peace on the matter that may or may not upset some snowflakes, here goes. A long time has passed since 1999, the way the world views things now are much different from when the game was originally came out. So Siren got get nunu covered, okay I see it as a very pointless thing to do but overall I'm not bothered by it because it's such a small thing. But some people nowadays would get offended by it as stupid as it sounds and I think they was just making sure more then anything. Is this "censorship" going to stop you playing the game? No. Is it going to change the overall enjoyment of a classic that fans have been waiting for? No. Are you going to actually use Siren as a summon? No. I think some censorship is a crappy thing, very much so if a game is cancelled because of it, but I feel giving this much negativity over a summon isn't needed and some people are just venting. At the end of the day kids stop getting upset over the slightest things and save it for a time when it's actually needed. Censorship is happening more and more because people are very oversensitive in 2019 and it's not going to stop, in the same way getting upset over little changes in a game don't make you any different from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndresLionheart Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 47 minutes ago, KaiserVendrix said: Oh wow, it's been unlocked! Now I can say my peace on the matter that may or may not upset some snowflakes, here goes. A long time has passed since 1999, the way the world views things now are much different from when the game was originally came out. So Siren got get nunu covered, okay I see it as a very pointless thing to do but overall I'm not bothered by it because it's such a small thing. But some people nowadays would get offended by it as stupid as it sounds and I think they was just making sure more then anything. Is this "censorship" going to stop you playing the game? No. Is it going to change the overall enjoyment of a classic that fans have been waiting for? No. Are you going to actually use Siren as a summon? No. I think some censorship is a crappy thing, very much so if a game is cancelled because of it, but I feel giving this much negativity over a summon isn't needed and some people are just venting. At the end of the day kids stop getting upset over the slightest things and save it for a time when it's actually needed. Censorship is happening more and more because people are very oversensitive in 2019 and it's not going to stop, in the same way getting upset over little changes in a game don't make you any different from them. If they get to be oversensitive about little things like that, then we also get to do it. What needs to stop is not this minority of people who do not play games getting offended, what needs to stops is companies censorig their stuff because of them. At the end of the day that's what makes people so angry, changes made for other people who were not gonna buy the game regardless of the censorship (who are also like 0.5% of people). And of course it doesn't change anything gameplay-wise (I mean, who the fuck summons Siren, lol), but as I already mentioned, that has nothing to do with the issue we have with it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLakota Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 @Katt mocks those for referencing Kotaku (rightly so) then proceeds to cite Huffpost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaivRules Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 How do we confirm when it’s censorship versus when a different design is chosen? My biggest problem is the propagation of this boogeyman theory that some tiny secret 3rd party force has all this power to step into these projects and start calling shots. I’m not talking about the developers that have (transparently) come out and said their material doesn’t clear the platform holders expectations. I’m talking about when that is absent, like in this game. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katt Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 4 hours ago, TheLakota said: @Katt mocks those for referencing Kotaku (rightly so) then proceeds to cite Huffpost. I don't care about US media, if I put another source, somebody will put the exact same reply you just put here. Just google "Trump blames videogames" on google and pick whatever you like. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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