(Spoilers) Let's Talk About Rin's Route

[Dokusha]

Hello, fellow sinners! Before I begin, I want to emphasise that this will be a spoiler thread for discussing Full Body's main story - Rin's route in particular. If you haven't finished the game yet, please click away now whilst you still can.

 

Okay?

 

Okay!

 

So, how about that Rin route? I must admit I'm really rather disappointed with it, for one reason: namely, the Good/True Ending revelation that angels are actually Minion-esque aliens with unique abilities in the Catherineverse. Having played through Katherine and Catherine's four respective endings before embarking on Rin's route, I was fully expecting to slot Catherine into the greater Megami Tensei multiverse, possibly even in the same universe as the Persona games. After all, between the existence of demons as well as the involvement of the Goddess Ishtar (who, it should be mentioned, also featured in the original Shin Megami Tensei, as well as Shin Megami Tensei II and the first Devil Summoner game), it seemed a fairly clear cut case of Megami Tensei supernatural shenanigans. And then angels are introduced? Sure, why not, that's also very MegaTen. But then... Minion-aliens? What the hell?

 

I want to make it quite clear that I think Catherine: Full Body is a very fine game. I loved the style, the overall story, the dingy locations enhancing the idea of "romantic horror", the fun puzzles, and the excellent Meguro soundtrack. I was ready to consider it a potential Game of the Year candidate, although Rin's endings have soured me to the point of no longer considering the game GotY-worthy.

 

It was just such an unexpected and unusually zany conclusion, which I'm not used to seeing from Atlus. Personally, I would've liked it much better if angels were really just angels. The comedy factor could've been kept by having Rin's "big brother" lurking in the background during the ending sequence, glaring at Vincent over a held up newspaper, or poorly trying to hide in a bush. The whole "I don't want to lose my relative to this bloody guy" emotional outburst was already covered with Catherine's archdemon father, there was no need to repeat it if you ask me. Also, a part of me feels it would've been nice if they'd really leaned into the angel theme and made it so that Rin wasn't biologically male, but completely lacking in sexual characteristics in the first place instead. No nipples, no areola, no genitals. Instead of "Whaaaat, you're a guy???" -> "Yes, I am, didn't I tell you?", the conflict could be "Wait, what? Are you a boy or a girl?" -> "I'm not a girl or a boy. I'm Rin". That would've fit her/his/their theme of loving the person rather than the body quite nicely, no?

 

Anyway, that's enough rambling from me. What do you guys think? Did you enjoy the Rin endings? Let's discuss!

[Allhelluja]

Rin's origins explanation is a bit out there, but I liked the weight of his existence in Vincent's life. Also, it's still way better than the New/time travel Catherine ending.

[DDerMeisterX]

The new endings and, equally the new Rin route, are means to inject new life to the original game. And whilst many people wish this game is in line with SMT or with the Persona franchise; it might as well be, but as you may know Catherine is set in a Space Colony.

 

The new endings for both K and C catheter for topics chatted about in a forum long ago: "What would happen if K gave up on Vincent and left his ass alone once and for all" and "What if C knew Vincent before he started dating K"

 

The option of entering in Rin's route or not and the general portrayal of her persona didn't bother me. I enjoyed Boss dialogue and Rin's brother teasing XD.

 

And speaking plainly, this enhanced version of the game was as enjoyable as the first iteration. I liked the puzzles remix version. Still in progress of acquiring all the trophies, but I want to grab the DLC before that.

[Zenpai]

Good read.

 

I generally find that the P-Studio games usually get it just right only on their first try. The re-releases tend to be too heavy on fanservice and the new content frequently doesn't even blend all that well with the original's. I think Persona 4 Golden was the only worthwhile buy and only because it made so many technical improvements to the PS2 original that it justified its existence...that said, it still suffers from the same problems as the other re-releases.

 

I think it has to do with the fact that the remakes are handled by a different director. The P-Studio games are heavily reliant on atmosphere and the new versions don't quite manage to grasp the fantastic thematic cohesion of the originals.

[Froopy the Temmie]

I feel like Rin's route was one giant metaphor for what LGBTQ+ people go through in relationships.

 

Considering that going for Rin will involve the following:

 

• Jonny punches Vincent for choosing to pursue Rin.  One may argue that Jonny got fed up with Vincent basically playing chicken with all the women involved up to this point, including Katherine, which Jonny has a huge crush on, but do note that he doesn't punch Vincent when Catherine comes into the picture when he basically spends the whole week complaining about it.  Though after Vincent accepts responsibility for his actions, Jonny is on Vincent's side.
• Boss making some rather derogatory remarks about the choice during stage 9.
• Vincent having to go through an extra night of nightmares with some arguably harder stages with the threat of the whole world being destroyed because of the choice made between Rin and Vincent.  Even Big Brother points out that Vincent corrupted their brother.
• Vincent himself having an initially negative reaction to Rin's being a boy.  However, he immediately regrets this and does work to remedy the situation.

 

Having pointed out all this, I don't agree the game is transphobic.  Sure, it contains some transphobic elements, but anyone focusing on that is, in my opinion, deliberately missing the point.  Despite all the above happening, Vincent prevails and still wins Rin's heart and seems estatic about it upon reaching the end of 10-4.  As I stated before, the various negative attitudes of people in the game reflect the very real opposition one might face on real life if they make the choice to become LGBTQ by pursuing someone who is.

 

The takeaway I got from it is that despite the opposition, they overcame it and ended up very happy together (Normal/True ending).  That should, IMO, be considered a good thing for the LGBTQ community.  It provides a beacon of hope in a video game to those going through serious issues in their own personal life.

 

On an unrelated note, did anyone else notice Rin's brothers kind of look like a penis?

Edited September 17, 2019 by Temmie

[Dokusha]

9 hours ago, Temmie said:

I feel like Rin's route was one giant metaphor for what LGBTQ+ people go through in relationships.

 

Considering that going for Rin will involve the following:

 

• Jonny punches Vincent for choosing to pursue Rin.  One may argue that Jonny got fed up with Vincent basically playing chicken with all the women involved up to this point, including Katherine, which Jonny has a huge crush on, but do note that he doesn't punch Vincent when Catherine comes into the picture when he basically spends the whole week complaining about it.  Though after Vincent accepts responsibility for his actions, Jonny is on Vincent's side.
• Boss making some rather derogatory remarks about the choice during stage 9.
• Vincent having to go through an extra night of nightmares with some arguably harder stages with the threat of the whole world being destroyed because of the choice made between Rin and Vincent.  Even Big Brother points out that Vincent corrupted their brother.
• Vincent himself having an initially negative reaction to Rin's being a boy.  However, he immediately regrets this and does work to remedy the situation.

 

Having pointed out all this, I don't agree the game is transphobic.  Sure, it contains some transphobic elements, but anyone focusing on that is, in my opinion, deliberately missing the point.  Despite all the above happening, Vincent prevails and still wins Rin's heart and seems estatic about it upon reaching the end of 10-4.  As I stated before, the various negative attitudes of people in the game reflect the very real opposition one might face on real life if they make the choice to become LGBTQ by pursuing someone who is.

 

The takeaway I got from it is that despite the opposition, they overcame it and ended up very happy together (Normal/True ending).  That should, IMO, be considered a good thing for the LGBTQ community.  It provides a beacon of hope in a video game to those going through serious issues in their own personal life.

 

On an unrelated note, did anyone else notice Rin's brothers kind of look like a penis?

 

 

Interesting points! I'm not entirely certain if that was Studio Zero's intent with Rin's story, but you can certainly interpret the game's events in that light. Death of the Author and all that~ Personally, I saw Jonny's sudden punch more as an expression of "You're already cheating and now you're going for a third option? Get a grip already", but maybe that's just my surface-level interpretation.

 

I do agree it was ultimately a positive portrayal. Loving the person, rather than their fleshly husk, is a very open-minded and admirable position in my opinion. I just think that could've been conveyed just as well without a bizarre "Minion-aliens!" twist not even at the eleventh hour, but at a minute to midnight.

 

9 hours ago, jrdemr said:

Good read.

 

I generally find that the P-Studio games usually get it just right only on their first try. The re-releases tend to be too heavy on fanservice and the new content frequently doesn't even blend all that well with the original's. I think Persona 4 Golden was the only worthwhile buy and only because it made so many technical improvements to the PS2 original that it justified its existence...that said, it still suffers from the same problems as the other re-releases.

 

I think it has to do with the fact that the remakes are handled by a different director. The P-Studio games are heavily reliant on atmosphere and the new versions don't quite manage to grasp the fantastic thematic cohesion of the originals.

 

You're right, the weird tonal shift of Rin's route is very likely a direct cause of having different staff working on Full Body. Heck, the original Catherine was P-Studio whereas I'm pretty sure Full Body is Zero Studio's first 'proper' production. You can tell P5 staff worked on it, what with the general stylishness of Full Body's presentation.

 

10 hours ago, DDerMeister said:

The new endings and, equally the new Rin route, are means to inject new life to the original game. And whilst many people wish this game is in line with SMT or with the Persona franchise; it might as well be, but as you may know Catherine is set in a Space Colony.

 

The new endings for both K and C catheter for topics chatted about in a forum long ago: "What would happen if K gave up on Vincent and left his ass alone once and for all" and "What if C knew Vincent before he started dating K"

 

The option of entering in Rin's route or not and the general portrayal of her persona didn't bother me. I enjoyed Boss dialogue and Rin's brother teasing XD.

 

And speaking plainly, this enhanced version of the game was as enjoyable as the first iteration. I liked the puzzles remix version. Still in progress of acquiring all the trophies, but I want to grab the DLC before that.

 

Haaang on, Catherine takes place on a space colony? Are you sure about that? Vincent's "True Freedom" end has him take a trip to a moon colony, sure, but don't the events of the main story take place in a generic American/Western city on Earth?

[DDerMeisterX]

9 hours ago, Isilith said:

 

 

9 hours ago, Isilith said:

 

 

Interesting points! I'm not entirely certain if that was Studio Zero's intent with Rin's story, but you can certainly interpret the game's events in that light. Death of the Author and all that~ Personally, I saw Jonny's sudden punch more as an expression of "You're already cheating and now you're going for a third option? Get a grip already", but maybe that's just my surface-level interpretation.

 

I do agree it was ultimately a positive portrayal. Loving the person, rather than their fleshly husk, is a very open-minded and admirable position in my opinion. I just think that could've been conveyed just as well without a bizarre "Minion-aliens!" twist not even at the eleventh hour, but at a minute to midnight.

 

 

You're right, the weird tonal shift of Rin's route is very likely a direct cause of having different staff working on Full Body. Heck, the original Catherine was P-Studio whereas I'm pretty sure Full Body is Zero Studio's first 'proper' production. You can tell P5 staff worked on it, what with the general stylishness of Full Body's presentation.

 

 

Haaang on, Catherine takes place on a space colony? Are you sure about that? Vincent's "True Freedom" end has him take a trip to a moon colony, sure, but don't the events of the main story take place in a generic American/Western city on Earth?

It was stated in the Venus Mode Art Book and in the "until the rain stops" sign in one of the endings (when we gaze at a San Francisco lookalike city. Whoever it's never openly stated in-game

Edited September 18, 2019 by DDerMeister