Spaz

PS3 to PS4 - Easier Games, Less Difficult Trophies

83 posts in this topic

10 hours ago, XileLerinril said:

See but that's not what you said. What you said was: It defeats the purpose buying/receiving games and constantly looking at guides and methods from other people in order to get passed and/or obtain task/trophies. The whole point in the (trophy hunting) process is to use your own skill to get pass/conquer the challenge(s). You also said: Any kind of unintentional/illegitimate exploits that makes getting the platinum easier should be discussed/mentioned in an entirely isolated post, line, or note. I've seen both people and websites do that, and it's best and proper way to do it. That has nothing to do with people earning trophies and everything to do with you stating as an objective fact that the way you view trophy hunting is the only correct way, with the implication that people should not use guides because it "defeats the purpose". That is an opinion, to act like it is a fact is arrogance, hence why I called you arrogant. I'm pretty sure you are just trolling though, so I think I will leave this conversation from here on out. 

 

What I just said is relevant to what I said before it. The reason the recent post exist is because you didn't understand my point. What you bolded I said has everything to do with obtaining trophies. What in the hell are you talking about? Guides and everything within them, which once again includes all types of exploits, are commonly used to achieve trophies. That's not debatable. No it is not an opinion. Trophies weren't made for people to use guides and methods from other completely different people to obtain them everytime; that's clearly not an opinion. Again, you clearly don't respect or posses knowledge on the concept of trophies. Nowadays, guides tell you how to play a game and precisely what to do to step by step in order to get trophies, with little creativity and skill involved by the pursuer. I appreciate guides for listing information in the form of multiplayer trophies, hours needed for tasks, whether missable trophies are present or not, collectibles (as I said before), whether glitched trophies are present or not, if multiplayer is required, things like that.. all fair stuff, but you/one cannot rationally defend guides that dictate and essentially gets trophies for people. I know you've heard of related terms known as backseat driving and hand holding, which is typically a complaint gamers even make when games do this themselves be it with combat, platforming, puzzles, whatever. Anyways, it's a fact that trophies are inherently designed for people to get them with their own skill. There's also more depth to my guide point from my previous post that you've not acknowledged, but I have slightly delved into that in this post. Regarding your last line, considering I added to the topic, I know for sure that you're actually wrong.

Edited by EcoShifter
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While I get as annoyed as anyone else over the soapboxes regarding trophy earning (both for and against), this argument is over a small amount of text, and is not exactly germane to the topic at hand.

 

Getting back to that topic, I read someone say that trophies and difficulty this generation has been the same for games in the same series. I haven't played enough bigger budget games to make this determination, but of the ones I've played, the PS4 seems to be easier. God of War on the PS4 is a lot easier than the mainline ones that came before it (on par with the ones from the Vita). Dynasty Warriors IX was an utter joke compared to the ones before it.

 

 

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On 9/19/2019 at 1:26 AM, Arcesius said:

 

Absolutely true. There should have been a trophy for beating the game on "Give me God of War". I personally played the game on "Give me a Challenge", the Valkyries, especially the Queen, were no joke. But sure, that is not required for the plat. 

 

 

I never owned a PS3, and in general I come from a gaming history of mostly JRPGs, with some God of War or Onimusha and DmC here and there.. so I have to admit that I only started discovering challenging games on the PS4, thus I might be a bit biased. 

 

There are plenty of challenging games to be found on the PS4, you don't even need to look at the indie market. Devil May Cry 5 is such an example, as is Wolfenstein II, to just name two. Also more mainstream games such as The Witcher III, while admittedly easy, has a trophy for playing through it on the highest difficulty.

 

Yes, gaming is becoming more and more mainstream, and many games are very streamlined and try to offer a great experience, not a challenging one, and that is reflected in their trophy lists. I mean look at what happens when challenging lists are put out... "This is so unfair" or "I can't get this trophy, what were the devs thinking!" or worse... "Can I cheese this?", "Does this and that glitch still work?"... Or the very worst: "Sekiro needs an easy mode".

 

As a recent example, take Darksiders III. There is a trophy for playing that game on Apocalyptic, the highest difficulty setting. Even then, it is really, really easy, yet one of the first threads about that game is something like "YOU DON'T NEED TO PLAY ON APOCALYPTIC", and many players have been using a glitch to play on Easy and get all difficulty-related trophies, even downgrading their game to be able to use that exploit. 

You see that more and more often. Most players don't wanna be challenged. And many trophy hunters don't wanna be challenged either, they wanna inflate their trophy count with as little effort as possible. 

 

But there will always be challenging games, you just need to look for them. What games you play is up to you. 

But... these games still have those difficulties.

Most people who play games don't bother with trophies or achievements. That's why people dislike the PSN rarity here, since most trophies are ultra/very rare just by virtue of most people not bothering. 31% PSNP compared to 5% PSN for God of War PS4's plat. 5% is too much to you? God of War PS3 for comparison sake is 20% PSNP, 3% PSN. It being dramatically easier BARELY changed the rarity of the platinum on PSN. And even on here it's only an 11% difference for a bunch of trophy whores.

Seems to me people like yourself just frame it in the way that supports your own conclusions, rather than really looking at the information. How big of a problem is this really? All I see is that people still largely don't focus on trophies when they have no interest, which again is most people, and trophy hunters are more likely to do so. Wow, such a difference from last gen guys. The gaming landscape will never be the same as it... stays the same.

 

edit; on the subject; I think it's just as all over the place as it always was. You still get retarded grinds (Orcs Must Die Unchained...) compared to Resistance 2's dumb 10k kills or whatever. Some things are harder now, like the Trine series. 2 was a free plat on the PS3, didn't even have to beat the game to get it. Trine 1 while the final level is easier on PS4, the plat is harder due to hard + hardcore being a requirement as well. You can cherry pick anything to prove any point you want if you're dishonest enough. Ben 10 (PS4) is easy, but it's harder than Rise of the Guardians. And Ben 10 does have some skill related trophies, like beating bosses with no hits. But, it's not that difficult to do. But they are still there when it could have been something easier like changing the sound volume in a menu [which are trophies in some gaems]. Both licensed games, and both by the same developer...

It's always all over the place. Sony specifically? Yes. They seem to be going to the doable fair platinums, adding more difficulty related stuff in patches along with NG+. I don't mind it. I like it, let's me enjoy a game on whatever difficulty I want and then wrap it up for the next one. In general? Eh.

Edited by Elvick_
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1 hour ago, Elvick_ said:

But... these games still have those difficulties.

Most people who play games don't bother with trophies or achievements. That's why people dislike the PSN rarity here, since most trophies are ultra/very rare just by virtue of most people not bothering. 31% PSNP compared to 5% PSN for God of War PS4's plat. 5% is too much to you? God of War PS3 for comparison sake is 20% PSNP, 3% PSN. It being dramatically easier BARELY changed the rarity of the platinum on PSN. And even on here it's only an 11% difference for a bunch of trophy whores.

Seems to me people like yourself just frame it in the way that supports your own conclusions, rather than really looking at the information. How big of a problem is this really? All I see is that people still largely don't focus on trophies when they have no interest, which again is most people, and trophy hunters are more likely to do so. Wow, such a difference from last gen guys. The gaming landscape will never be the same as it... stays the same.

 

I honestly don't understand why you quoted me or what your answer has to do with my post. I explicitly named four games (DmC 5, Wolfenstein II, Darksiders III and The Witcher 3) from this current generation that have difficulty related trophies, I was not claiming that there is a difference between last gen and the current one. I also said that I never owned a PS3 and can thus not compare this with the last gen...

And why the God of War example with the PSN vs. PSNP %? 🤔

 

Not exactly sure what you mean by "people like myself" framing anything to support my conclusions. I only stated that gaming is becoming more mainstream, which it is, and that many gamers and even trophy hunters don't want to be challenged, which is also true (and you seem to agree, as you state multiple times that most players stop playing when they lose interest), supporting my claim with all the discussions that arose with Sekiro (for the 100th time) about difficulty in games and with all the threads about using exploit, glitches, downgrading methods etc. 

 

Do I think that trophies should be awarded for extra challenges? Hell yeah, but that's irrelevant to the discussion as it doesn't affect facts, which is why I didn't bring it up (apart from my statement about the trophy for completing "GoW on Give me God of War", but that was not on topic). 

 

Edited by Arcesius
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On 9/19/2019 at 8:58 PM, Spaz said:

Uncharted: Drake's Fortune was considered hard for many because of Crushing difficulty. Today I can breeze through Crushing without much trouble, but newer AAA games take a lot of the difficulty away in place of a more casual experience. The reason for this is because these companies want to attract more people. Turns out that the masses can't handle stuff that is challenging, so they cater to them and more people = more money.

 

Crushing in Uncharted 4 is/was much more difficult than the first game IMO.  And this is from someone who platted each Uncharted game a few times.  UC4 is actually the game that caused me to give up trophy hunting. xD  It was seriously spoiling my passion for the series, and for games as a whole, and I wasn't having any of that.

 

Keep in mind that you're probably just getting better at these games too, especially in particular genres/franchises that get increasingly popular and see multiple entries (ie. Souls games, the first one you play will usually feel like the most difficult because you're still learning the tricks).  Be careful not to project too much of your own experiences/preferences into generalizations about the industry.

Edited by Dreakon13
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On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 11:38 AM, djb5f said:

I feel they are pretty comparable when you compare games in the same series.

 

Far Cry 3, 4, and 5 all about the same.  Far Cry 2 was harder/more time consuming but that already dropped by Far Cry 3 (PS3 only).

 

Uncharted 1-4 all about the same. In fact, you could argue Drake’s Fortune is the easiest as it has the highest percentage completing crushing and getting platinum.

 

Red Dead Redemption is similar, so is GTA IV to V (technically both were PS3 first anyway).  

 

Sports games have kept their difficulty, NHL to NBA to FIFA to Madden to UFC, really no change on PS4.  What sports games are you referring to that are easier on PS4?

 

Rhythm games seem just as hard to play on the PS4, see Rock Band 4, very similar trophy list.  Same with pinball games.

 

Lego games are the same, as were Telltale games (if anything harder with Walking Dead Final Season on PS4).  Quantic dreams also same.

 

i think what is skewing things here are there a lot of easy platinums now (Ratalaika) but games within a series seem the same to get a platinum as in PS3.

 

 

 

I will add that getting to 100% in a lot of games is now longer/more difficult than what I have seen in ps3.  Even driving games like Drive Club or Need for Speed (Prestige DLC), getting 100% is not for the faint of heart.  And a lot of whining on the forums about how hard the challenges in Days Gone are.

 

So, in short, I can't really agree that games are easier on ps4 than ps3 if you compare apples to apples (i.e. Ratalaika is its own special case).

22 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

 

Crushing in Uncharted 4 is/was much more difficult than the first game IMO.  And this is from someone who platted each Uncharted game a few times.  UC4 is actually the game that caused me to give up trophy hunting. xD  It was seriously spoiling my passion for the series, and for games as a whole, and I wasn't having any of that.

 

Keep in mind that you're probably just getting better at these games too, especially in particular genres/franchises that get increasingly popular and see multiple entries (ie. Souls games, the first one you play will usually feel like the most difficult because you're still learning the tricks).  Be careful not to project too much of your own experiences/preferences into generalizations about the industry.

 

Crushing was comparable across all 4 games but easiest in the 1st game, Drake's Fortune.  Only 2 tough areas, (plane wreck and water room but you could cheese the water area).  This is shown in the rarity percentages; Uncharted 1 Platinum and Crushing trophy are more common than the others.  People thought it was hard at the time because they weren't use to it, but if anything, it was easier.

 

And getting 100% for difficulty, Uncharted 4 was the hardest.  Uncharted 2 and 3 were over the top, but more grindy than difficult.

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I omitted from listing this comment multiple days ago, but like Dreakon said, Uncharted 4 is most definitely not in the same group as the other main Uncharted games. Both single player and multiplayer wise it's on a level of its own, between offering much more online trophies than previous installments and more miscellaneously difficult sp trophies (like beating game with 70%+ accuracy and more none of the other installments had at all). It's also one of the games that will inevitably be impossible to get its platinum once the servers close down.

 

In terms of 100% of all time, U3 or U2 should be the hardest, though.

Edited by EcoShifter
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2 hours ago, Arcesius said:

 

 

Do I think that trophies should be awarded for extra challenges? Hell yeah, but that's irrelevant to the discussion as it doesn't affect facts, which is why I didn't bring it up (apart from my statement about the trophy for completing "GoW on Give me God of War", but that was not on topic). 

 

 “Why did you reply to me about something I didn’t bring up (except when I did)?” 

 

Why reply if you’re only going to make a silly comment that makes no sense? 

 

I mixed a response about your (and others) bringing up God of War, showed how little its difficulty has actually affected rarity on PSN and then made general comments, because contrary to your ego not everything is entirely about you. 

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For a long time I've been thinking the same thing. There are more ultra rare platinums on PS3 than PS4 excluding the unobtainable PS4 platinums. Most trophy lists are becoming easier but more time consuming or less time consuming and difficult. As more people are playing games than ever before, the difficulty is a compromise to the core and the hardcore. The developers have data onthis so if a platinum is too rare they tend to make the next one easier often times except for R* who still like to keep them hard, except for LA Noire and Bully, and when DS2 was harder than 1. 

Back in the early days of achievements/trophies you had either absurdly easy trophies or insanely hard ones. (Trine 2 to Warhawk) but more so in the early 360 era. 

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29 minutes ago, Elvick_ said:

 “Why did you reply to me about something I didn’t bring up (except when I did)?” 

 

Why reply if you’re only going to make a silly comment that makes no sense? 

 

I mixed a response about your (and others) bringing up God of War, showed how little its difficulty has actually affected rarity on PSN and then made general comments, because contrary to your ego not everything is entirely about you. 

 

Because I didn't want to assume you misquoted my comment, although I thought that might be the case. I didn't even bring up rarity once. 

 

I didn't make this about me, you quoted my comment and addressed me directly and without showing much respect either ("people like yourself"... ). But it's ok, I actually agree with what you wrote on topic. 

Edited by Arcesius
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23 hours ago, Spaz said:

 

I would agree with you. But these days with all the shit entering PSN there is a ton of crap, particularly indies that serve no real intention than to get your money. Shovelware that some lone guy out there shoved out in one weekend to see if anyone would buy his crap product. 

 

You would never see something like Little Adventure on the Prairie released on the PS3 during its heyday. There was a standard, but with the PS4 there’s no standard. Anything can have a platinum, even if it’s less than one minute like Slyde. Most people don’t care, but I don’t see the leaderboards worth anything if guys like Hakoom just stack a bunch of shit among the few good games they have here and there. There’s no possible way to compete unless you have a team account and you’re willing to stack a ton of shit. 

 

There are good indie games and hidden gems worth getting. But it’s getting harder to wade through all the crap that keeps getting released on PSN. 

 

Hakoom at least has over 200 UR plats and over 1800 UR trophies so he (they?) definitely puts some effort to get some of the trophies, even despite "littering" his profile with cheap plats.

 

But on #2 place, we have Ikemenzi and his profile saddens me much more. 7,200 games on profile (almost 3 times more than Hakoom) and over 2,600 E ranks (so it means he barely touched over 2,600 games). He's just wasted enormous amount of cash.

 

So anyway, I think leaderboard never meant anything, as even at PS3 era, there was quite an amount of cheap plats (but not as cheap as nowadays, either in terms of effort required as in price, you've got to pay a lot more to get games based on animated films etc. than for something like Slyde). It's easily seen here:

 

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies?platform=ps4&type=platinum&order=rarity&dir=desc

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies?platform=ps3&type=platinum&order=rarity&dir=desc

 

There's 641 platinums for PS4 games and 99 platinums for PS3 games with 50%+ rarity. I think it's a good summary of this thread.

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There are really two main factors here. 1 - the effect that console generation changes have had on obtaining a trophy and 2 - games are generally getting easier over time.

 

I'm having trouble separating these factors from each other, and I don't know how you honestly can? I haven't read all the posts here because they are a bit wordy so forgive me if Im repeating. Personally I don't think PS3/PS4 variable can be factored in too much because most games that you'd play on both consoles either been co-released or remastered.  Adding NG+ or Uberdifficult level DLC doesn't count imo because the game itself is still the same. For that reason I think this topic is flawed and will only lead to misunderstanding and confusion without resolution.   

 

What I am noticing as an older gamer (into my 4th decade on planet earth) is that there is far less of a penalty in character respawn than there used to be. In many games these days its just "sorry try again" where it used to be "3 strikes and you are out" or "start at the beginning fool".  

Edited by audiopile
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Devil may cry 5, Wolfeinstein 2, Overwatch, just on top of my head, sure a lot more eaisier games but still some challenges, but hey people are more complaining about the difficulty than when the games are easy, i remember when W2 was released so much people were complaining with petition and stuff.

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8 hours ago, EcoShifter said:

What I just said is relevant to what I said before it. The reason the recent post exist is because you didn't understand my point. What you bolded I said has everything to do with obtaining trophies. What in the hell are you talking about? Guides and everything within them, which once again includes all types of exploits, are commonly used to achieve trophies. That's not debatable. No it is not an opinion. Trophies weren't made for people to use guides and methods from other completely different people to obtain them everytime; that's clearly not an opinion. Again, you clearly don't respect or posses knowledge on the concept of trophies. Nowadays, guides tell you how to play a game and precisely what to do to step by step in order to get trophies, with little creativity and skill involved by the pursuer. I appreciate guides for listing information in the form of multiplayer trophies, hours needed for tasks, whether missable trophies are present or not, collectibles (as I said before), whether glitched trophies are present or not, if multiplayer is required, things like that.. all fair stuff, but you/one cannot rationally defend guides that dictate and essentially gets trophies for people. I know you've heard of related terms known as backseat driving and hand holding, which is typically a complaint gamers even make when games do this themselves be it with combat, platforming, puzzles, whatever. Anyways, it's a fact that trophies are inherently designed for people to get them with their own skill. There's also more depth to my guide point from my previous post that you've not acknowledged, but I have slightly delved into that in this post. Regarding your last line, considering I added to the topic, I know for sure that you're actually wrong.

 

The hobby of achievement hunting/trophy hunting is much more mainstream now than it used to be.

 

As I mentioned before, a lot of games from 2008 to roughly 2011 - 2012 had you put in the work. AAA games today are a lot more straightforward, cut and dry.

 

A few indie games and a game like Devil May Cry 5 will still challenge a lot of players, myself included. Guides are basically walkthroughs, in the past I bought a couple walkthrough books for stuff like World of Warcraft because finding good information for your class and build wasn't so readily available as it is now.

 

I mostly agree with you. The integrity of trophies has been lowered thanks to countless stacks of easy games and the fact that you have to put less effort in a lot of big budget games now than you used to. In 2009 - 2010 working on achievements/trophies took a good amount of skill and dedication. Today I can easily buy up 20 Ratalaika Games with two stacks attached to them equaling 40 platinums in total. I no longer view the platinum count as having any value, the real value is the individual platinums and how much you've enjoyed the games enough to earn all the respective trophies.

 

7 hours ago, Dreakon13 said:

 

Crushing in Uncharted 4 is/was much more difficult than the first game IMO.  And this is from someone who platted each Uncharted game a few times.  UC4 is actually the game that caused me to give up trophy hunting. xD  It was seriously spoiling my passion for the series, and for games as a whole, and I wasn't having any of that.

 

Keep in mind that you're probably just getting better at these games too, especially in particular genres/franchises that get increasingly popular and see multiple entries (ie. Souls games, the first one you play will usually feel like the most difficult because you're still learning the tricks).  Be careful not to project too much of your own experiences/preferences into generalizations about the industry.

 

Cheats are allowed for Crushing difficulty in Uncharted 4, which negates a lot of the actual difficulty. Big difference between that and working to earn the trophies for beating Crushing difficulty in the older Uncharted games.

 

The Survival DLC is difficult, because I'm still missing the last two trophies I need for 100 percent.

 

I've been gaming since the 16 - bit era (back in the day when Mario and Sonic were rivals) and I played a lot of Playstation 2 and Xbox 360. Most of us are between our early 20s and early - mid 40s and have had a decade or two of gaming experience, if not three decades.

 

This is my own opinions on the subject. I basically am projecting my own experiences into this, I never intended this topic to be an equal debate because it isn't. Most of the topics you see in any forum website are biased in one form or another.

 

7 hours ago, djb5f said:

And getting 100% for difficulty, Uncharted 4 was the hardest.  Uncharted 2 and 3 were over the top, but more grindy than difficult.

 

If you do Crushing without the cheats enabled, Uncharted 4 is the hardest. Uncharted 2 and 3 on the PS3 were the most respectable 100 percents, which are now impossible because the servers were shut three weeks ago.

 

6 hours ago, EcoShifter said:

I omitted from listing this comment multiple days ago, but like Dreakon said, Uncharted 4 is most definitely not in the same group as the other main Uncharted games. Both single player and multiplayer wise it's on a level of its own, between offering much more online trophies than previous installments and more miscellaneously difficult sp trophies (like beating game with 70%+ accuracy and more none of the other installments had at all). It's also one of the games that will inevitably be impossible to get its platinum once the servers close down.

 

I don't think Uncharted 4 multiplayer is going away anytime soon. Plenty of people still play the online the last time I looked at it. Naughty Dog would be stupid to shut the servers down early.

 

3 hours ago, Spinosaurus Rex said:

 

Hakoom at least has over 200 UR plats and over 1800 UR trophies so he (they?) definitely puts some effort to get some of the trophies, even despite "littering" his profile with cheap plats.

 

But on #2 place, we have Ikemenzi and his profile saddens me much more. 7,200 games on profile (almost 3 times more than Hakoom) and over 2,600 E ranks (so it means he barely touched over 2,600 games). He's just wasted enormous amount of cash.

 

So anyway, I think leaderboard never meant anything, as even at PS3 era, there was quite an amount of cheap plats (but not as cheap as nowadays, either in terms of effort required as in price, you've got to pay a lot more to get games based on animated films etc. than for something like Slyde). It's easily seen here:

 

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies?platform=ps4&type=platinum&order=rarity&dir=desc

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies?platform=ps3&type=platinum&order=rarity&dir=desc

 

There's 641 platinums for PS4 games and 99 platinums for PS3 games with 50%+ rarity. I think it's a good summary of this thread.

 

I will not say Hakoom isn't good. He's done a lot of hard stuff on his account. But when you judge the platinum trophy count and the trophies, there is a lot of junk that he littered his profile with.

 

You definitely took the time to look at platinums with 50+% rarity. 641 platinums versus 99 platinums on two systems is a huge difference. In terms of numbers, there's a lot more easy stuff on the PS4 than there is on the PS3.

 

3 hours ago, audiopile said:

There are really two main factors here. 1 - the effect that console generation changes have had on obtaining a trophy and 2 - games are generally getting easier over time.

 

I'm having trouble separating these factors from each other, and I don't know how you honestly can? I haven't read all the posts here because they are a bit wordy so forgive me if Im repeating. Personally I don't think PS3/PS4 variable can be factored in too much because most games that you'd play on both consoles either been co-released or remastered.  Adding NG+ or Uberdifficult level DLC doesn't count imo because the game itself is still the same. For that reason I think this topic is flawed and will only lead to misunderstanding and confusion without resolution.   

 

What I am noticing as an older gamer (into my 4th decade on planet earth) is that there is far less of a penalty in character respawn than there used to be. In many games these days its just "sorry try again" where it used to be "3 strikes and you are out" or "start at the beginning fool".  

 

This is merely an observation I made regarding the changes we've seen going from the PS3 to the PS4. It's not a debate and this topic doesn't have a neutral stance on the hobby of trophy hunting as it's mostly me pointing out what I think has been going on these past few years.

 

Games getting easier over time is part of this, but that's the whole entire scope of the gaming industry. You only have to look at episodes of Angry Video Game Nerd to see how difficult and hard those old games were.

 

But even when you take that into account on trophy hunting, there is a significant difference between the old Assassins Creed games and Assassins Creed Origins & Odyssey. Assassins Creed II has a touch of nostalgia and longstay feel for me because I played it on the 360 shortly after it came out. Mostly an easy platinum, but a couple of the Assassin tombs and collecting all the Feathers were annoying. Thanks to games evolving and gameplay mechanics because a lot easier and streamlined, it's much more straightforward to climb in the newer games.

 

Assassins Creed Odyssey doesn't look hard at all, it's just a bit time consuming. I played a few hours on Origins and there is nothing difficult in the trophies. That is the big change nowadays with a lot of trophy lists in AAA games. Sure there is stuff like Wolfenstein 2: The New Colossus and Devil May Cry V that has difficulty related stuff that is going to challenge the vast majority of gamers, probably to the point where they give up on the platinum. But there's definitely a lot less of that than what you used to see.

 

I can't really word this any other way honestly. I'm not trying to misguide and confuse people, I'm just making points from my own perspective without trying to sound completely biased.

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It feels like on the PS3, a lot of very mainstream games, big wide-appeal games, had very hard trophies. Where it was intentional that the platinum was for mastery, not completion, and most people who "beat the game" would not be able to plat it. Now it seems like those games — The God of Wars and Horizon Zero Dawns — have made a conscious choice to reward completion, not competitive greatness.

 

There are still bone-breakingly hard plats on PS4, but a lot of them are on smaller, more niche games.

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Im not disagreeing but @Spaz Consider the fact that trophies are at their second gen on ps4, and beside difficulty on AAA games i see some lazy trophy list with no imagination, tbh i just think developper sees it like a thing to do more like a part of the game

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On 9/18/2019 at 9:45 PM, Spaz said:

What seems to be the theme these days especially with Sony exclusives is giving a solid high quality drama, with various themes that become important as the story moves along. There is very little of anything that is remotely challenging, games like Days Gone and Marvel's Spider-Man are pretty much a breezethrough where any casual gamer who doesn't quite have the skills to tackle something overly challenging can get the platinums with little trouble. Difficulty related trophies are becoming more and more rare, quite the contrast to early in the PS4 generation when Killzone: Shadowfall  and Knack both had difficulty related trophies on top of being somewhat time consuming. I often find games like that generate a lot of complaints from people who can't beat Very Hard difficulty or something else that a lot of people can't seem to do. Many of the difficulty related trophies have been removed in place of more story related trophies to try to attract more people into trophy hunting and also to make the experience more accessible to everyone, rather than a niche audience that was once the focus and whom played a lot of difficult games to challenge themselves and feel great satisfaction.

 

I skimmed through the responses, so sorry if I missed someone else mentioning this, but I find it very interesting that you mention these games, as have you noticed recently that a lot of Sony exclusives that were released without difficulty trophies in the main platinum list are now getting a 2 trophy set with difficulty trophies, in a free NG+ update?  Days Gone and Spidey are just 2 of the ones that got them.  I got the plat for Horizon Zero Dawn recently and it too had it.  It seems like this is going to be the new normal: Release a game without difficulty trophies, then add an NG+ update after a while.  I don't know how to feel about this tactic as it neither bothers me or intrigues me.  It's just a thing they are doing now, it seems.  Thoughts?

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1 hour ago, Spaz said:

 

The hobby of achievement hunting/trophy hunting is much more mainstream now than it used to be.

 

As I mentioned before, a lot of games from 2008 to roughly 2011 - 2012 had you put in the work. AAA games today are a lot more straightforward, cut and dry.

 

I mostly agree with you. The integrity of trophies has been lowered thanks to countless stacks of easy games and the fact that you have to put less effort in a lot of big budget games now than you used to. In 2009 - 2010 working on achievements/trophies took a good amount of skill and dedication. Today I can easily buy up 20 Ratalaika Games with two stacks attached to them equaling 40 platinums in total.

 

I no longer view the platinum count as having any value, the real value is the individual platinums and how much you've enjoyed the games enough to earn all the respective trophies.

 

I don't think Uncharted 4 multiplayer is going away anytime soon. Plenty of people still play the online the last time I looked at it. Naughty Dog would be stupid to shut the servers down early.

 

Yep, never said otherwise.

 

Sorry, but like I said in my first post, there are still a large variety of AAA games that (especially) requires hundreds of hours of grinding and are difficult too get their platinums, plenty of which includes new installment in series that started from PS2/PS3. It's not just indies or AA games. (From here I pretty much just go on about something that's not arguing against your post.) Personally, most of my disappointment in terms of what isn't added, to an extent, comes from games that omit a trophy or two requiring you to do certain things that makes so much sense. Not going to list any perfect examples of that at the moment, because it's not on my mind, but other and specific disappointments of mine include the lack of Jak II/3/X requiring you to beat the game on Hero Mode, Gravity Rush 2 requiring a much higher layer to get to in the Delvool Trench, Castle Crashers Remastered requiring you to beat game on its hardest difficulty, etc. (But even with that point, not all cases of games without those "beat game on highest or second highest difficulty" trophies necessarily makes its platinum easier to obtain than previous installments or games from entirely different franchises.) Look, though... the trophy teams who think its fun or intelligent to not have difficulty trophies stack when doing the hardest mode, can go screw themselves. In some cases, I will as of this point in time support the lack of difficulty trophies over non-stackable difficulty trophies. I've obtained at least several platinums from games like that—I'll be doing it yet again soon when I pick up Nickelodeon Kart Racers (which i'm not picking up because it has a relatively easy enough to get platinum, but because i'm simultaneously a kart racer and Nickelodeon fan), smh—so I have full experience with such a tedious chore.

 

Yeah. I actually accept certain stacks, it's primarily the ability to keep on stacking over and over and over that I have an issue with. Sound Shapes is, literally, enough said. (Although, games like Sly 4 not sharing its trophy list with PS3's version is incredibly bizarre. I don't think there's any reason why that game doesn't share its t.list like Borderlands 2 actually does across PS3 and Vita.)

 

I mean, the count would certainly matter if a person's profile isn't filled with a lot of stacks. Still agree with that entire line, though.

 

It's not. My point is just that the servers are eventually going to close down and make getting the platinum completely impossible, just like ModNation Racers, Resistance 2/3 (for whatever reason Burning Skies is still on, iirc) Twisted Metal, PSASBR, Killzone 2/3 (like the Vita Resistance game, Mercenaries's are still on), etc. Additionally, while there is a later released TLOU Remastered on PS4, they shutdown the original PS3 version's servers relatively quickly, which is rather very ironic given its late release during the start of PS3's life support.

Edited by EcoShifter
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14 hours ago, Spaz said:

 

The hobby of achievement hunting/trophy hunting is much more mainstream now than it used to be.

 

As I mentioned before, a lot of games from 2008 to roughly 2011 - 2012 had you put in the work. AAA games today are a lot more straightforward, cut and dry.

 

A few indie games and a game like Devil May Cry 5 will still challenge a lot of players, myself included. Guides are basically walkthroughs, in the past I bought a couple walkthrough books for stuff like World of Warcraft because finding good information for your class and build wasn't so readily available as it is now.

 

I mostly agree with you. The integrity of trophies has been lowered thanks to countless stacks of easy games and the fact that you have to put less effort in a lot of big budget games now than you used to. In 2009 - 2010 working on achievements/trophies took a good amount of skill and dedication. Today I can easily buy up 20 Ratalaika Games with two stacks attached to them equaling 40 platinums in total. I no longer view the platinum count as having any value, the real value is the individual platinums and how much you've enjoyed the games enough to earn all the respective trophies.

 

 

Cheats are allowed for Crushing difficulty in Uncharted 4, which negates a lot of the actual difficulty. Big difference between that and working to earn the trophies for beating Crushing difficulty in the older Uncharted games.

 

The Survival DLC is difficult, because I'm still missing the last two trophies I need for 100 percent.

 

I've been gaming since the 16 - bit era (back in the day when Mario and Sonic were rivals) and I played a lot of Playstation 2 and Xbox 360. Most of us are between our early 20s and early - mid 40s and have had a decade or two of gaming experience, if not three decades.

 

This is my own opinions on the subject. I basically am projecting my own experiences into this, I never intended this topic to be an equal debate because it isn't. Most of the topics you see in any forum website are biased in one form or another.

 

 

If you do Crushing without the cheats enabled, Uncharted 4 is the hardest. Uncharted 2 and 3 on the PS3 were the most respectable 100 percents, which are now impossible because the servers were shut three weeks ago.

 

 

I don't think Uncharted 4 multiplayer is going away anytime soon. Plenty of people still play the online the last time I looked at it. Naughty Dog would be stupid to shut the servers down early.

 

 

I will not say Hakoom isn't good. He's done a lot of hard stuff on his account. But when you judge the platinum trophy count and the trophies, there is a lot of junk that he littered his profile with.

 

You definitely took the time to look at platinums with 50+% rarity. 641 platinums versus 99 platinums on two systems is a huge difference. In terms of numbers, there's a lot more easy stuff on the PS4 than there is on the PS3.

 

 

This is merely an observation I made regarding the changes we've seen going from the PS3 to the PS4. It's not a debate and this topic doesn't have a neutral stance on the hobby of trophy hunting as it's mostly me pointing out what I think has been going on these past few years.

 

Games getting easier over time is part of this, but that's the whole entire scope of the gaming industry. You only have to look at episodes of Angry Video Game Nerd to see how difficult and hard those old games were.

 

But even when you take that into account on trophy hunting, there is a significant difference between the old Assassins Creed games and Assassins Creed Origins & Odyssey. Assassins Creed II has a touch of nostalgia and longstay feel for me because I played it on the 360 shortly after it came out. Mostly an easy platinum, but a couple of the Assassin tombs and collecting all the Feathers were annoying. Thanks to games evolving and gameplay mechanics because a lot easier and streamlined, it's much more straightforward to climb in the newer games.

 

Assassins Creed Odyssey doesn't look hard at all, it's just a bit time consuming. I played a few hours on Origins and there is nothing difficult in the trophies. That is the big change nowadays with a lot of trophy lists in AAA games. Sure there is stuff like Wolfenstein 2: The New Colossus and Devil May Cry V that has difficulty related stuff that is going to challenge the vast majority of gamers, probably to the point where they give up on the platinum. But there's definitely a lot less of that than what you used to see.

 

I can't really word this any other way honestly. I'm not trying to misguide and confuse people, I'm just making points from my own perspective without trying to sound completely biased.

Sorry dude, honestly I had no intention of focusing that comment on you.  I just don’t think its a console thing at all. If you want to use console generations as data points to assess game difficulty I can get behind that but i dont think consoles themselves have any relevance on game difficulty. Thats all i was trying to say. 

 

I just finished Sherlock Holmes Devils Daughter (PS4) and it was far easier  than Crimes and Punishment (PS3) but that is because how the game was coded and not anything to do with the console.  I suspect its the same with the Assassins Creed series etc.  Cheers mate, and happy gaming.  

Edited by audiopile
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1. they make alot more games on ps4 at a faster rate.
2. i agree alot of games are easier, people bitched about games being to hard and companies want to make the customer happy

3. days gone added harder challenging modes. games often to offer more hardcore scenarios but dont often make it trophy based they leave it up to us (which is good)
4. the sense of interest people have today is around 30 seconds when it comes to something on tv, our attention span as humans has decreased for everything (movies, tv, etc) game companies are trying to figure out if they want you to be happy with a quick easy plat, or furiously pissed off putting in more hours on a harder plat that keeps you around playing longer. when you leave a game they might not generate money on items and dlc. but you often might hate the company if its 2 tough
5. they realized how fkn ridicuous some of their trophies actually were when doing remakes. look at red faction guerilla. i just platinumed that game and it took me 8 years. the mp requirements were ridiculous even boosting it took forever. and so in the newer version they made it easier.
6. i think some of these companies dont have time to actually game because they are to busy making games. some of these games have dead mp day1 yet the companies throw tons of mp trophies on it and you can only boost them to get them. 

7. i think there is alot of 100 hour plats out there. ive played alot. but like i said in #1 there is so many games to pick from now that eveything is spread out. your not limited to what you want to play. i remember for a while when ps3 first came out and i had to actually rent games at blockbuster (lol) i would stare at the rack wondering what games to pick. they also didnt have trophies the first like 2 years. then going to used game store and still staring at the shelf wondering what to buy. sometimes there was a wave of games i could pick up and other times there was nothing

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I might be repeating something already posted here (a lot of thorough posts, I do enjoy that), but I completely agree here:

 

On 9/19/2019 at 0:09 AM, Upendo_Vitani said:

I think it's because gaming in general is becoming more and more socially acceptable and more people are playing now than ever before. That being said, there's now a larger demographic to cater to; the average person spends most of their day at work and doesn't have a lot of time to devote to gaming so the more they feel like they're progressing in a game, the better, otherwise there's the danger of them stopping playing entirely. Developers know that if they churn out a game that appeals to the masses, the more the masses will buy their next game, and so on. It's the science of business in my opinion. 

 

"...the average person spends most of their day at work and doesn't have a lot of time to devote to gaming..."

 

Bingo. I'm actually back in college and there is a significant amount of responsibilities placed on college students these days, particularly if you want to get into the gaming industry. My school has a Games degree, and not only do students have to focus on the coursework, but networking, internships, learning all the various software that isn't taught in classes, and even building their own games. On top of the usual daily life of working, potential family/friend issues, living conditions, etc.

 

For that reason, it doesn't make sense to have some dedicate their life to get some stupid plat. For me, I'm already stressed out through 90% of my day, and I don't need the added stress of trying to plat some ridiculously difficult game; these days, I'd prefer to just move on to the next one.

 

This actually moves into something else, which this posts helps identify:

On 9/19/2019 at 1:10 AM, Potent_Delusions said:

I miss the early days of trophies, where getting a platinum trophy meant you had done everything on the game: you'd completed the campaign on the hardest setting, you'd earned all challenges/awards online, you'd reached the max rank online, you'd gotten all collectibles etc.  Nowadays it's just complete handouts: complete 50% of the online awards, reach the 2nd rank online, all at the behest of whiners who don't want platinums going over 40 hours in length. I've got a great idea: if you aren't up to the task...don't get the platinum. Simple as that. 

 

I always have been and always will be someone who believes the platinum trophy should be given for doing most, if not all, of the notable feats in the game. 

 

I get that idea. I understand wanting to take some pride in accomplishing that is difficult, but the perspective is from a gamer's perspective (and not necessarily all gamers), where it should be taken from a design perspective.

 

Try to think about any game that has any achievement (not necessarily a trophy) associated with completing it. For me, I think of World of Warcraft in the earlier days, and finishing the last boss of one of the original raids.

 

Now think about all of the construction and design that went into that last boss of that raid - If it's so difficult that only a minority of the population ever even gets to experience it in the first place...why bother designing for it? There is a ton that goes into the development of games these days, particularly if it's done intelligently; think about all the artwork that is necessary to animate it correctly, all the coding that needs to be done, the sounds, the music, the balancing, the testing of it to ensure there are no exploits.

 

All of that work...for what? Only a small population to see it? That makes no sense from a business standpoint. If I was an individual responsible for funding development, I would never support such a thing; a game is meant to be played, not coveted as if it's the holy grail.

 

Does that mean any given game is inherently bad for doing that? Well no of course not, as there are a multitude of variables to consider. The goal is to try to design the game so everyone can feel satisfied while playing it; my guess is that is why Pokemon will continue to be so popular, because it caters to such a wide array of consumers.

 

All I'm saying is that difficulty is significantly more complex than I think most realize. There is a significant amount of clever, creative, and intelligent design that needs to go into the game in order to do difficulty properly (Diablo 3 imo is a fantastic example). You can have a difficult game, there is nothing wrong with that, but prioritizing it to the point where you ostracize your consumer base is a mistake.

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I've been away from PlayStation consoles for a good few years now and only recently came back.  Though never a serious trophy hunter, I never got a single plat on any PS3 game but have already got one on PS4 (Need for Speed 2015) without really trying for it.  I'm not overly bothered about it and there definitely are some harder and more time consuming trophies still, but it does seem your average AAA release has made them slightly easier, making spending hours getting all the collectibles a little pointless.

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On 9/23/2019 at 6:32 PM, rdhight said:

It feels like on the PS3, a lot of very mainstream games, big wide-appeal games, had very hard trophies. Where it was intentional that the platinum was for mastery, not completion, and most people who "beat the game" would not be able to plat it. Now it seems like those games — The God of Wars and Horizon Zero Dawns — have made a conscious choice to reward completion, not competitive greatness.

 

There are still bone-breakingly hard plats on PS4, but a lot of them are on smaller, more niche games.

 

I still do practice runs on Super Meat Boy, supposedly one of the harder platinums out there. A bit pissed I've been one level off from getting the last trophy on four different occasions, but perseverance is key to success.

 

The big difference I think is many of the bigger games on the PS3 still had you playing them on harder difficulties. Collectibles were more tedious and difficult to find. They may not of been difficult in terms of skill but they definitely had a more demanding trophy list.

 

These days with today's AAA games much of that tediousness and having to beat them on harder difficulties has been removed. They've released New Game Plus and harder difficulty related trophies as DLC rather than on the base game, which is good for a lot of people who just want the platinum trophy and move on.

 

The competition isn't all that great anymore, but I make the argument it wasn't all that good in the first place.

 

On 9/23/2019 at 6:39 PM, Matto_lsi said:

 

I skimmed through the responses, so sorry if I missed someone else mentioning this, but I find it very interesting that you mention these games, as have you noticed recently that a lot of Sony exclusives that were released without difficulty trophies in the main platinum list are now getting a 2 trophy set with difficulty trophies, in a free NG+ update?  Days Gone and Spidey are just 2 of the ones that got them.  I got the plat for Horizon Zero Dawn recently and it too had it.  It seems like this is going to be the new normal: Release a game without difficulty trophies, then add an NG+ update after a while.  I don't know how to feel about this tactic as it neither bothers me or intrigues me.  It's just a thing they are doing now, it seems.  Thoughts?

 

I've done two NG+ updates from the three games you mentioned. The problem is it's just extra padding, and much of the difficulty isn't there anyway since there's no real noticeable spike.

 

Horizon has the Shield Weaver outfit which is basically another health bar technically. Easy to blaze through the story. Spider-Man you keep your suits and gear, enemies only deal more damage.

 

The Dark Soul games are the only games I feel where NG+ was done right. Thankfully the Assassins Creed games never required a second playthrough, only repeating the main missions for 100 percent sync, which isn't even a thing anymore in the newer games.

 

It is a thing, but nobody is doing anything interesting. It's just throwing in NG+ for the hell of it.

 

On 9/23/2019 at 7:07 PM, EcoShifter said:

I mean, the count would certainly matter if a person's profile isn't filled with a lot of stacks. Still agree with that entire line, though.

 

It's not. My point is just that the servers are eventually going to close down and make getting the platinum completely impossible, just like ModNation Racers, Resistance 2/3 (for whatever reason Burning Skies is still on, iirc) Twisted Metal, PSASBR, Killzone 2/3 (like the Vita Resistance game, Mercenaries's are still on), etc. Additionally, while there is a later released TLOU Remastered on PS4, they shutdown the original PS3 version's servers relatively quickly, which is rather very ironic given its late release during the start of PS3's life support.

 

I've cut back on stacks. Not that I'm completely against every stack but I'd rather do games I haven't played instead of games I've already done just to get more trophies.

 

That's interesting to note. Resistance: Burning Skies is completely dead, Killzone: Mercenary still has some little online activity.

 

My biggest issue is the possibility of a PSN shutdown on the PS3. PS Now doesn't have everything, but I have to pay a subscription for it and I'm already paying for three subscriptions (my internet service, PS Plus and a MMO I play semi-regularly). That's basically four subscriptions, which I cannot afford. Sony wants you to sign up for PS Now, and it's a real shame the PS3 was coded in such a manner that it's impossible to have any backwards compatibility with the PS4.

 

On 9/24/2019 at 9:31 AM, Whirled03 said:

Bingo. I'm actually back in college and there is a significant amount of responsibilities placed on college students these days, particularly if you want to get into the gaming industry. My school has a Games degree, and not only do students have to focus on the coursework, but networking, internships, learning all the various software that isn't taught in classes, and even building their own games. On top of the usual daily life of working, potential family/friend issues, living conditions, etc.

 

For that reason, it doesn't make sense to have some dedicate their life to get some stupid plat. For me, I'm already stressed out through 90% of my day, and I don't need the added stress of trying to plat some ridiculously difficult game; these days, I'd prefer to just move on to the next one.

 

This is basically everybody's reason for quitting World of Warcraft and frankly, I think it's stupid.

 

During 2004 to roughly 2010 - 2011 or so a lot of guilds were committed to raids. That took a lot of time investment. The problem nowadays is virtually nobody wants to be committed like that. World of Warcraft has changed a great deal since I played it back in 2005 - 2007.

 

It was virtual bling in the first place. People just stopped having fun with them. I used to go after achievements in World of Warcraft that were added when Wrath of the Lich King hit stores. Eventually got to the point where they were overly boring though it was nice to pick up those milestones that were only available for a limited time (ex. participating in a holiday event, doing a certain activity).

 

As far as work goes, you went from a carefree teenager to a young - middle aged adult with a lot more responsibilities. I had a lot more free time 15 years ago, but today I don't have that luxury. But that doesn't mean I'll give up on something that I think is a bit difficult.

 

On 9/24/2019 at 9:31 AM, Whirled03 said:

All I'm saying is that difficulty is significantly more complex than I think most realize. There is a significant amount of clever, creative, and intelligent design that needs to go into the game in order to do difficulty properly (Diablo 3 imo is a fantastic example). You can have a difficult game, there is nothing wrong with that, but prioritizing it to the point where you ostracize your consumer base is a mistake.

 

Diablo 3 isn't that difficult. Dark Souls is probably the best example of clever, creative and intelligent design in difficulty. For virtually everybody who played it when it came out, it WAS difficult.

 

My problem is when people start bitching that Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus was too difficult because of Mein Leben. Some of the threats I saw two years ago were unwarranted and just pathetic.

 

To be frank, it is a good game for most, who don't bother with trophies or achievements. The story, while it shifts too far into the SJW culture and can't decide whether it's a melodrama or an over the top game with cheap laughs, was fairly alright. For most, that's all that matters.

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38 minutes ago, Spaz said:

I've cut back on stacks. Not that I'm completely against every stack but I'd rather do games I haven't played instead of games I've already done just to get more trophies.

 

That's interesting to note. Resistance: Burning Skies is completely dead, Killzone: Mercenary still has some little online activity.

 

My biggest issue is the possibility of a PSN shutdown on the PS3. PS Now doesn't have everything, but I have to pay a subscription for it and I'm already paying for three subscriptions (my internet service, PS Plus and a MMO I play semi-regularly). That's basically four subscriptions, which I cannot afford. Sony wants you to sign up for PS Now, and it's a real shame the PS3 was coded in such a manner that it's impossible to have any backwards compatibility with the PS4.

 

What about re-releases that can't be stacked (i'm actually lost on whether we've been interchanging stacks and double dipping), like Gravity Rush Remastered, The Nathan Drake Collection, Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm Remastered Trilogy, etc? I had to work fresh from beginning to end to get those re-releases' platinums. (Didn't actually do Storm 2/3 PS4 yet.) Then there's the definitive The Walking Dead : Definitive Collection and Far Cry 3 Classic Edition, all being games I genuinely love (and will have to start from the ground up to get their platinums again) :\

 

There's probably at least one to two people trying to find a session on RBS :\. For KM, I know this guy who immeasurably loves this game, to the point where its brought up by him out of context occasionally! Those instances include him mentioning how he still easily finds and has a blast playing its o.multiplayer.

 

Gotta happen eventually. With PS3 possibly being my favorite system as of this point in time (even with how slow it can be -_-), obviously I'd hate that too. I still play it and have some unfinished business up there. PSNw has a fairly great lineup now, though. Things will be okay so long as they properly keep supporting PSNw (?)

Edited by EcoShifter
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1 hour ago, EcoShifter said:

What about re-releases that can't be stacked (i'm actually lost on whether we've been interchanging stacks and double dipping), like Gravity Rush Remastered, The Nathan Drake Collection, Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm Remastered Trilogy, etc? I had to work fresh from beginning to end to get those re-releases' platinums. (Didn't actually do Storm 2/3 PS4 yet.) Then there's the definitive The Walking Dead : Definitive Collection and Far Cry 3 Classic Edition, all being games I genuinely love (and will have to start from the ground up to get their platinums again) :\

 

I technically still call those stacks. Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor GOTY Edition is a separate release from the original Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor release, shares the exact same trophy list.

 

The Nathan Drake Collection has some new trophies for the base games and if you include the DLC there's a whole new set of trophies. But mostly it's the same type list.

 

The Walking Dead: Definitive Collection is basically a collection of The Walking Dead games all combined in one list. Far Cry 3 Classic Edition removes the online trophies and improves the graphics and framerate but it's otherwise the same.

 

1 hour ago, EcoShifter said:

Gotta happen eventually. With PS3 possibly being my favorite system as of this point in time (even with how slow it can be -_-), obviously I'd hate that too. I still play it and have some unfinished business up there. PSNw has a fairly great lineup now, though. Things will be okay so long as they properly keep supporting PSNw (?)

 

I don't mind online server shutdown for individual games (that is if I don't own the games). I don't want to see a complete cutoff of any online activity from PS3 since that means you can't sync trophies anymore.

 

I have 19 games on my backlog that are PS3 games, and if Sony decides I can't sync trophies anymore than I just wasted all that money buying those games. Because I want to earn trophies in all of them.

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