What's the deal with some upgrades making weapons worse?

[Gottesurteil]

So I think i'm missing something here, but why do some weapon upgrades do nothing?  Like when you upgrade certain weapons, the base damage increases, but the scaling damage decreases by the exact same amount, netting a gain of zero.  What's the point?  I've only ever seen this happen on heavy weapons, but I'm not sure what is going on.  I tend to use the lighter weapons and run around as a caster type.

 

Anyone know what's going on?

[HaserPL]

9 minutes ago, Gottesurteil said:

So I think i'm missing something here, but why do some weapon upgrades do nothing?  Like when you upgrade certain weapons, the base damage increases, but the scaling damage decreases by the exact same amount, netting a gain of zero.  What's the point?  I've only ever seen this happen on heavy weapons, but I'm not sure what is going on.  I tend to use the lighter weapons and run around as a caster type.

 

Anyone know what's going on?

The Potential Damage increases, but kinetic decreases
??
Profit

[Gamygin]

Introduction and Reasoning of Response
While my response may not be edifying to the one who asked it a few months ago, I will post my findings here for the purpose of helping the next person with this question.

The response to this inquiry is best summed up as: "the benefit of each transformation is purely circumstantial."

The general consensus is that Fortification is the only helpful weapon transformation. This information is deliberately incorrect, and this is seemingly due to the supposed discovery of CODE VEIN's meta-tier build of a Queenslayer Blood Code with a Two-Handed Great Sword. The thought of Fortification being the only useful transformation also seems to be from a stat-chasing mentality, and not applying any thought to the function of what that stat line actually does.

I have solo'd the entire initial playthrough using my Sorceress of the Bloodreign build, which is a spell-heavy build with massive Drain capabilities and easy Slow application. Nothing on my Sorceress build uses Fortification, yet everything equipped has been transformed.

Weapon and Blood Veil Upgrade Logic
I have spent a decent amount of time experimenting with all of the transformation features, and will do my best to provide these findings in a sensible manner. All experimentation is done first-hand, and was due to playing this game in a "blind" approach, as well as fully solo (meaning not even with an A.I. cooperator).

Alleviation: is a transformation that will moderately decrease the base values of a weapon or Blood Veil, but will also decrease the equipped weight of the item. Alleviation receives an inordinate amount of attention on my character, since I use the Harmonia Blood Code. If my sorceress' mobility ever becomes labelled as Slow, she would be absolutely destroyed, and this was often the situation early in the game. Speed is everything for any build that isn't putting up an S+ in Vitality and/or Fortitude; any weapon that does tremendous damage means nothing if you cannot even hit your target. My Sorceress of the Bloodreign build no longer has need of Alleviation since I have access to two different weapons that maintain my mobility rating of Normal, but both of these weapons are inaccessible until the very late stages of the first playthrough.

Fortification: is a transformation that will moderately increase the base values of a weapon or Blood Veil, but will also increase the equipped weight of the item. As described above, due to my play style I will typically not transform any item with Fortification. Particularly in the early game, however, I do have one or two items that I keep the Fortification transformation applied to, but these items are purely optional (they are the pre-order bonus weapons that were all designed with lighter equipped weights). Using the Sorceress of the Bloodreign build combined with a Crimson Longsword Fortification trivialized the first half of the game due to the light equipped weight and by having all weapon defenses pushed into the 90s.

Intensification: is a transformation that will increase the scaling effects of a weapon or Blood Veil, but will also decrease the base stats of the item. The in-game description of this transformation references "Haze" as having a controlling factor to the benefit, and this is actually referring to your character's in-game level and not Haze that is currently pooled (or otherwise referred to as "Haze that can be lost on death"). Depending on the item, and what you're building up to, Intensification may or may not be desirable to you. For my Sorceress of the Bloodreign build, I begin seeing payback at level 125 and on for my Blood Veil, but a Strength-based build may never find an applicable use. I am running a level 17 Sorceress of the Bloodreign through New Game+, and due to her level Intensification only acts as a pure detriment.

Gifts: is a transformation that will increase the effects of Gifts applied, which will increase the base stats of the item being buffed by 50%, but will also fully remove the scaling ability of the item. Weapon mastery passives are affected by this transformation, but elemental weapon buffs and drain rating buffs are not affected. This transformation is supremely useful if you are reliant on skills such as Final Journey, Bridge to Glory, and Sacrificial Edge, but the results will also vary wildly depending on the item with the Gifts transformation. My experimentation suggests that items like the Pipe of Thralldom or the Hammer of Thralldom are the biggest beneficiaries of this transformation.

Devour: is a transformation that increases the Drain Rating of a weapon or Blood Veil, but will also decrease the base stats of the item. The entire purpose of my Sorceress of the Bloodreign build is to maintain a good Ichor quantity, as this is what I must consume in order to deal meaningful damage. By weaving Quick Drain attacks into my attack combos by a weapon with Devour, or going for Drain back-attacks with a Blood Veil with Devour, having a high Drain Rating is absolutely mandatory for any action skill oriented build. Due to my playing style, I prefer that my primary weapon is transformed into Devour as any enemy is susceptible to a Quick Drain weave, even bosses. Transforming your Blood Veil with Devour will give you a larger return on Drain back-attacks (note that main game bosses are immune to Drain back-attacks). I have a Blood Veil transformed with Devour that I use solely for Depths Maps, as I can easily max out my Ichor stock using backstabs, and then boss-rush the three to five bosses on the map with almost unstoppable wizardry.

Fire: is a transformation that increases Fire damage or defense of a weapon or Blood Veil, but will also decrease the stat scaling of the item. The elemental transformations are ideal for locations of enemies that share a specific weakness or that all may have a similar strength infused within their attacks. A primary example is the Blade Bearer and Cannoneer encounter. Since I was level 17 and going fully solo (no A.I. partner), I transformed a Blood Veil to Fire since the Cannoneer was the lower priority target. Since all of my attention was focused on the Blade Bearer, she was the least likely to hit me, and with that Blood Veil transformed with added Fire defense, now any stray hit from the Cannoneer was negligible. Additionally, the Blade Bearer was phenomenally weak to the Fire element, so I transformed my Blazing Claw with Fire, and used my Crimson Longsword Fortification as my backup for the Cannoneer.  ADDENDUM: The Frozen Empress boss is ridiculously weak to the fire element, and as such, a weapon with the Fire transformation is capable of dealing ludicrous damage.  The Hellfire Knight boss has many fire elemental attacks in his arsenal, and will justify using a Blood Veil with the Fire transformation.

Ice: is a transformation that increases Ice damage or defense of a weapon or Blood Veil, but will also decrease the stat scaling of the item. The elemental transformations are ideal for locations of enemies that share a specific weakness or that all may have a similar strength infused within their attacks. A primary example is the Blade Bearer and Cannoneer encounter. Since I was level 17 and going fully solo (no A.I. partner), I could have transformed a Blood Veil to Ice if I deemed the Blade Bearer as the lower priority target. If this was the case, all of my attention would be focused on the Cannoneer, which would mean that he was the least likely to hit me, and with that Blood Veil transformed with Ice defense, now any stray hit from the Blade Bearer would be negligible. Additionally, the Cannoneer was phenomenally weak to the Ice element, so I could have transformed my Blazing Claw with Ice, and used my Crimson Longsword Fortification as my backup for the Blade Bearer.  ADDENDUM: The Lord of Thunder boss is ridiculously weak to the ice element, and as such, a weapon with the Ice transformation is capable of dealing ludicrous damage.  The Frozen Empress boss has many Ice elemental attacks in her arsenal, and will justify using a Blood Veil with the Ice transformation.

Lightning: is a transformation that increases Lightning damage or defense of a weapon or Blood Veil, but will also decrease the stat scaling of the item. The elemental transformations are ideal for locations of enemies that share a specific weakness or that all may have a similar strength infused within their attacks. Lightning is the least used of all the elemental transformations, in that very few important encounters are actually weak to it, and as such, the same may be said about needing added Lightning defense. This may change in upcoming DLC, but with the game as it is currently, this is the only transformation I have not outright needed at a given time.  ADDENDUM: The Hellfire Knight boss is ridiculously weak to the lightning element, and as such, a weapon with the Lightning transformation is capable of dealing ludicrous damage.  His damage, however, is primarily fire and physical so there is still little reason to transform a Blood Veil with the Lightning property.  The Lord of Thunder boss has many Lightning elemental attacks in his arsenal, and will actually justify using a Blood Veil with the Lightning transformation.

Venom: is a transformation that increases Venom buildup overtime by your weapon strikes, or increases Venom buildup defense in your Blood Veil, but will also decrease the base stats of the transformed item. The debuff transformations are ideal for locations of enemies that share a specific weakness or that all may have a similar strength infused within their attacks. Many enemies in CODE VEIN are susceptible to Venom buildup attacks, and a One-Handed Sword transformed with Venom while maintaining a Quick mobility can absolutely end a lot of encounters in the true endgame content (difficulty increased NG++ and on). Couple the Venom transformed One-Handed Sword with a skill such as Circulating Pulse for maximum application effect. Use this transformation on a Blood Veil for the Butterfly of Delirium encounter.

Stun: is a transformation that increases Stun buildup overtime by your weapon strikes, or increases Stun buildup defense in your Blood Veil, but will also decrease the base stats of the upgraded item. The debuff transformations are ideal for locations of enemies that share a specific weakness or that all may have a similar strength infused within their attacks. Many enemies in CODE VEIN are susceptible to Stun buildup attacks, and a One-Handed Sword transformed with Stun while maintaining a Quick mobility can absolutely end a lot of encounters in the true endgame content (difficulty increased NG++ and on). Couple the Stun transformed One-Handed Sword with a skill such as Circulating Pulse for maximum application effect.  ADDENDUM: The Lord of Thunder boss is capable of dealing Stun buildup with various attacks.

Inhibit: is a transformation that increases Inhibit buildup overtime by your weapon strikes, or increases Inhibit buildup defense in your Blood Veil, but will also decrease the base stats of the transformed item. The debuff transformations are ideal for locations of enemies that share a specific weakness or that all may have a similar strength infused within their attacks. Many enemies in CODE VEIN are susceptible to Inhibit buildup attacks, and a One-Handed Sword transformed with Inhibit while maintaining a Quick mobility can absolutely end a lot of encounters in the true endgame content (difficulty increased NG++ and on). Couple the Inhibit transformed One-Handed Sword with a skill such as Circulating Pulse for maximum application effect. Use this transformation on a Blood Veil for the Juzo Mido encounter.

Slow: is a transformation that increases Slow buildup overtime by your weapon strikes, or increases Slow buildup defense in your Blood Veil, but will also decrease the base stats of the transformed item. The debuff transformations are ideal for locations of enemies that share a specific weakness or that all may have a similar strength infused within their attacks. Many enemies in CODE VEIN are susceptible to Slow buildup attacks, and a One-Handed Sword transformed with Slow while maintaining a Quick mobility can absolutely destroy a lot of encounters in the true endgame content (difficulty increased NG++ and on). Couple the Slow transformed One-Handed Sword with a skill such as Circulating Pulse for maximum application effect. Use this transformation on a Blood Veil for the Invading Executioner encounter.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Gamygin
Clarity of terminology; updated for Season Pass content.

[Gamygin]

I have modified my original post to accommodate the Hellfire Knight DLC.

[OldSnake031]

On 1/21/2020 at 2:46 PM, Gamygin said:

Introduction and Reasoning of Response
While my response may not be edifying to the one who asked it a few months ago, I will post my findings here for the purpose of helping the next person with this question.

The response to this inquiry is best summed up as: "the benefit of each transformation is purely circumstantial."

The general consensus is that Fortification is the only helpful weapon transformation. This information is deliberately incorrect, and this is seemingly due to the supposed discovery of CODE VEIN's meta-tier build of a Queenslayer Blood Code with a Two-Handed Great Sword. The thought of Fortification being the only useful transformation also seems to be from a stat-chasing mentality, and not applying any thought to the function of what that stat line actually does.

I have solo'd the entire initial playthrough using my Sorceress of the Bloodreign build, which is a spell-heavy build with massive Drain capabilities and easy Slow application. Nothing on my Sorceress build uses Fortification, yet everything equipped has been transformed.

Weapon and Blood Veil Upgrade Logic
I have spent a decent amount of time experimenting with all of the transformation features, and will do my best to provide these findings in a sensible manner. All experimentation is done first-hand, and was due to playing this game in a "blind" approach, as well as fully solo (meaning not even with an A.I. cooperator).

Alleviation: is a transformation that will moderately decrease the base values of a weapon or Blood Veil, but will also decrease the equipped weight of the item. Alleviation receives an inordinate amount of attention on my character, since I use the Harmonia Blood Code. If my sorceress' mobility ever becomes labelled as Slow, she would be absolutely destroyed, and this was often the situation early in the game. Speed is everything for any build that isn't putting up an S+ in Vitality and/or Fortitude; any weapon that does tremendous damage means nothing if you cannot even hit your target. My Sorceress of the Bloodreign build no longer has need of Alleviation since I have access to two different weapons that maintain my mobility rating of Normal, but both of these weapons are inaccessible until the very late stages of the first playthrough.

Fortification: is a transformation that will moderately increase the base values of a weapon or Blood Veil, but will also increase the equipped weight of the item. As described above, due to my play style I will typically not transform any item with Fortification. Particularly in the early game, however, I do have one or two items that I keep the Fortification transformation applied to, but these items are purely optional (they are the pre-order bonus weapons that were all designed with lighter equipped weights). Using the Sorceress of the Bloodreign build combined with a Crimson Longsword Fortification trivialized the first half of the game due to the light equipped weight and by having all weapon defenses pushed into the 90s.

Intensification: is a transformation that will increase the scaling effects of a weapon or Blood Veil, but will also decrease the base stats of the item. The in-game description of this transformation references "Haze" as having a controlling factor to the benefit, and this is actually referring to your character's in-game level and not Haze that is currently pooled (or otherwise referred to as "Haze that can be lost on death"). Depending on the item, and what you're building up to, Intensification may or may not be desirable to you. For my Sorceress of the Bloodreign build, I begin seeing payback at level 125 and on for my Blood Veil, but a Strength-based build may never find an applicable use. I am running a level 17 Sorceress of the Bloodreign through New Game+, and due to her level Intensification only acts as a pure detriment.

Gifts: is a transformation that will increase the effects of Gifts applied, which will increase the base stats of the item being buffed by 50%, but will also fully remove the scaling ability of the item. Weapon mastery passives are affected by this transformation, but elemental weapon buffs and drain rating buffs are not affected. This transformation is supremely useful if you are reliant on skills such as Final Journey, Bridge to Glory, and Sacrificial Edge, but the results will also vary wildly depending on the item with the Gifts transformation. My experimentation suggests that items like the Pipe of Thralldom or the Hammer of Thralldom are the biggest beneficiaries of this transformation.

Devour: is a transformation that increases the Drain Rating of a weapon or Blood Veil, but will also decrease the base stats of the item. The entire purpose of my Sorceress of the Bloodreign build is to maintain a good Ichor quantity, as this is what I must consume in order to deal meaningful damage. By weaving Quick Drain attacks into my attack combos by a weapon with Devour, or going for Drain back-attacks with a Blood Veil with Devour, having a high Drain Rating is absolutely mandatory for any action skill oriented build. Due to my playing style, I prefer that my primary weapon is transformed into Devour as any enemy is susceptible to a Quick Drain weave, even bosses. Transforming your Blood Veil with Devour will give you a larger return on Drain back-attacks (note that main game bosses are immune to Drain back-attacks). I have a Blood Veil transformed with Devour that I use solely for Depths Maps, as I can easily max out my Ichor stock using backstabs, and then boss-rush the three to five bosses on the map with almost unstoppable wizardry.

Fire: is a transformation that increases Fire damage or defense of a weapon or Blood Veil, but will also decrease the stat scaling of the item. The elemental transformations are ideal for locations of enemies that share a specific weakness or that all may have a similar strength infused within their attacks. A primary example is the Blade Bearer and Cannoneer encounter. Since I was level 17 and going fully solo (no A.I. partner), I transformed a Blood Veil to Fire since the Cannoneer was the lower priority target. Since all of my attention was focused on the Blade Bearer, she was the least likely to hit me, and with that Blood Veil transformed with added Fire defense, now any stray hit from the Cannoneer was negligible. Additionally, the Blade Bearer was phenomenally weak to the Fire element, so I transformed my Blazing Claw with Fire, and used my Crimson Longsword Fortification as my backup for the Cannoneer.

Ice: is a transformation that increases Ice damage or defense of a weapon or Blood Veil, but will also decrease the stat scaling of the item. The elemental transformations are ideal for locations of enemies that share a specific weakness or that all may have a similar strength infused within their attacks. A primary example is the Blade Bearer and Cannoneer encounter. Since I was level 17 and going fully solo (no A.I. partner), I could have transformed a Blood Veil to Ice if I deemed the Blade Bearer as the lower priority target. If this was the case, all of my attention would be focused on the Cannoneer, which would mean that he was the least likely to hit me, and with that Blood Veil transformed with Ice defense, now any stray hit from the Blade Bearer would be negligible. Additionally, the Cannoneer was phenomenally weak to the Ice element, so I could have transformed my Blazing Claw with Ice, and used my Crimson Longsword Fortification as my backup for the Blade Bearer.

Lightning: is a transformation that increases Lightning damage or defense of a weapon or Blood Veil, but will also decrease the stat scaling of the item. The elemental transformations are ideal for locations of enemies that share a specific weakness or that all may have a similar strength infused within their attacks. Lightning is the least used of all the elemental transformations, in that very few important encounters are actually weak to it, and as such, the same may be said about needing added Lightning defense. This may change in upcoming DLC, but with the game as it is currently, this is the only transformation I have not outright needed at a given time.  ADDENDUM: The Hellfire Knight boss is ridiculously weak to the lightning element, and as such, a weapon with the Lightning transformation is capable of dealing ludicrous damage.  His damage, however, is primarily fire and physical so there is still little reason to transform a Blood Veil with the Lightning property. 

Venom: is a transformation that increases Venom buildup overtime by your weapon strikes, or increases Venom buildup defense in your Blood Veil, but will also decrease the base stats of the transformed item. The debuff transformations are ideal for locations of enemies that share a specific weakness or that all may have a similar strength infused within their attacks. Many enemies in CODE VEIN are susceptible to Venom buildup attacks, and a One-Handed Sword transformed with Venom while maintaining a Quick mobility can absolutely end a lot of encounters in the true endgame content (difficulty increased NG++ and on). Couple the Venom transformed One-Handed Sword with a skill such as Circulating Pulse for maximum application effect. Use this transformation on a Blood Veil for the Butterfly of Delirium encounter.

Stun: is a transformation that increases Stun buildup overtime by your weapon strikes, or increases Stun buildup defense in your Blood Veil, but will also decrease the base stats of the upgraded item. The debuff transformations are ideal for locations of enemies that share a specific weakness or that all may have a similar strength infused within their attacks. Many enemies in CODE VEIN are susceptible to Stun buildup attacks, and a One-Handed Sword transformed with Stun while maintaining a Quick mobility can absolutely end a lot of encounters in the true endgame content (difficulty increased NG++ and on). Couple the Stun transformed One-Handed Sword with a skill such as Circulating Pulse for maximum application effect.

Inhibit: is a transformation that increases Inhibit buildup overtime by your weapon strikes, or increases Inhibit buildup defense in your Blood Veil, but will also decrease the base stats of the transformed item. The debuff transformations are ideal for locations of enemies that share a specific weakness or that all may have a similar strength infused within their attacks. Many enemies in CODE VEIN are susceptible to Inhibit buildup attacks, and a One-Handed Sword transformed with Inhibit while maintaining a Quick mobility can absolutely end a lot of encounters in the true endgame content (difficulty increased NG++ and on). Couple the Inhibit transformed One-Handed Sword with a skill such as Circulating Pulse for maximum application effect. Use this transformation on a Blood Veil for the Juzo Mido encounter.

Slow: is a transformation that increases Slow buildup overtime by your weapon strikes, or increases Slow buildup defense in your Blood Veil, but will also decrease the base stats of the transformed item. The debuff transformations are ideal for locations of enemies that share a specific weakness or that all may have a similar strength infused within their attacks. Many enemies in CODE VEIN are susceptible to Slow buildup attacks, and a One-Handed Sword transformed with Slow while maintaining a Quick mobility can absolutely destroy a lot of encounters in the true endgame content (difficulty increased NG++ and on). Couple the Slow transformed One-Handed Sword with a skill such as Circulating Pulse for maximum application effect. Use this transformation on a Blood Veil for the Invading Executioner encounter.

   Fantastic info! Thanks so much.

[Gamygin]

I have modified my original post to accommodate the Frozen Empress and Lord of Thunder DLC.