Joker is such a sad movie

[Gibbo_0113]

The movie was good and Joaquin's take on the Joker was great (beside the annoying laugh) but i found it pretty boring overall. heath Ledger is still #1 for me

[MMDE]

On 10/6/2019 at 4:49 PM, BestUsername---- said:

Joker is a great movie because of the tremendous acting and you can see the process of Arthur becoming the Joker. His character comes through his hardships and his breaking point. Not the color of his skin or because he was dating a woman that didn’t exist. 

 

The truth is, that's not why they're hating on it. It's who the masked and violent left-wing activists reminds them of.  

[MMDE]

On 10/6/2019 at 8:29 AM, RadiantFlamberge said:

While I don't agree with the far-right, I don't side with the hard left either. In my book, both political extremes are equally wrong. Moderate is the way to be.

 

I think this way of thinking about politics isn't all that productive. It's not just "left" and "right", there's many directions and elements you may evaluate politics by. The "far" sides can be completely different items or just the different sides of the same coin.

[BestUsername----]

43 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

The truth is, that's not why they're hating on it. It's who the masked and violent left-wing activists reminds them of.  

I always thought they hated because of two things. They don’t understand the medium, this can be applied to everything “progressive” anarchists have thrown their misguided hate at. Take for example the Batgirl cover

 

Secondly, because while they are probably the same people who believe that media does not make a violent person, which I agree, they are also the same people saying Joker will cause another attack.

 

I don’t know why but I should add that I have some liberal views and some conservative views, but I won’t really get into it.

[starcrunch061]

9 hours ago, Spaz said:

One of the best posts you’ve made in a long time. Well said. 

 

I'm not sure if that's a compliment. ?

 

8 hours ago, NaseemJohn said:

Id argue that it’s the other way around. Other than joker and daredevil on Netflix I don’t recall the last comic book adaptation where we got a deep look at what made the vilain become that way. Majority of the time we just get the evil character that wants to destroy earth or wipe out all humans. 

 

We may not get a deep look, but if you look at the villains, there's always this...angle to them. Thanos is insane, but his insanity has its roots in his childhood. He thinks he's doing good. Loki has his adoption issues. Even Magneto (who already had a perfectly fine reason for being who he was) got some Holocaust-inspired backstory added on later. 

 

But the Joker? The Joker was bad from day 1. I mean, in his first appearance in Batman 1, he was killing people just to prove that he could. Not because he failed to make his high school football team, or because the love of his life decided  that he wasn't cool enough. He just wanted to kill. And don't get me wrong - the comics have given him backstories galore (I think the failed comedian angle has been there - it was certainly his fake story in the Batman Animated Series), but none of them ever stuck, because ultimately, they just don't fit. 

 

But don't get me wrong. I entered the movie with a bias against it. I freely admit it. I hoped to suppress it, but as I watched, it crept up more and more. I've read the Joker for over 35 years now, and I've read every single incarnation of him, from his original, evil roots in the 30s and 40s to his silly gag-inspired shtick in the Silver Age, on through the Bronze Age where he got his edge back, and the modern age, where he's been analyzed (sometimes good, sometimes bad) by the greats like Moore and Morrison. That's a lot of baggage to take to a new interpretation, and it certainly colored my opinion.

 

 

7 hours ago, Gibbo_0113 said:

The movie was good and Joaquin's take on the Joker was great (beside the annoying laugh) but i found it pretty boring overall. heath Ledger is still #1 for me

 

Same here, although I also liked Jack Nicholson, who seems to have been forgotten these days. But that Ledger Joker was just great. Malevolent, violent, uncaring. A force of chaos.

 

6 hours ago, BestUsername---- said:

I always thought they hated because of two things. They don’t understand the medium, this can be applied to everything “progressive” anarchists have thrown their misguided hate at. Take for example the Batgirl cover

 

I had put that stupid episode out of my mind. But thanks to you, it's back.

Edited October 11, 2019 by starcrunch061

[Crispy_Oglop]

Really looking forward to seeing this movie and making up my own mind about it. I do agree that we kind of saturate the Batman franchise with Joker exposure. I'd love to see more standalone movies about the villains themselves, Mr Freeze/Victor Fries would be really cool, although i'm a bit biased as he is my favourite Batman adversary next to The Court of Owls.

[starcrunch061]

1 minute ago, Crispy_Oglop said:

Really looking forward to seeing this movie and making up my own mind about it. I do agree that we kind of saturate the Batman franchise with Joker exposure. I'd love to see more standalone movies about the villains themselves, Mr Freeze/Victor Fries would be really cool, although i'm a bit biased as he is my favourite Batman adversary next to The Court of Owls.

 

I think Mr. Freeze is the only Batman villain who really stepped up with a backstory.

 

Fun trivia: did you know his original name was Mr. Zero, but it was changed thanks to the campy 60s Batman show?

[Crispy_Oglop]

37 minutes ago, starcrunch061 said:

 

I think Mr. Freeze is the only Batman villain who really stepped up with a backstory.

 

Fun trivia: did you know his original name was Mr. Zero, but it was changed thanks to the campy 60s Batman show?

I didn't know that! I do love campy 60's batman though, so many great scenes. Somehow it became prime meme territory in the last few years too, and for good reason I suppose

[RevengeancePrime]

11 hours ago, Spaz said:

 

The writing and the subject matter isn't my issue with the Joker movie. It's the character himself, and how much he's been overdone.

 

Yeah I mean sure, some films have those not so well known heroes and villains and some people might even consider them a little obscure. But cmon, at least come up with somebody new. I used to dabble in some comic books and a couple of the characters you mentioned are a little familiar to me.

 

I did agree that he is overdone, but what I'm saying is it's better than getting horrible characters like Captain Marvel. Sure they're not as well known as the Joker, but what's the point if the character and movie are horrible? I would much rather have ten good Joker films than a bunch of films full of political messaging about characters nobody cares about.

 

Are you saying they should create entirely new characters? Because there's no way the average viewer is overly familiar with the vast majority of characters in these adaptations. Joker is about the only character that is overdone and even then he could be used in adaptations like Red Hood and Killing Joke. The average moviegoer probably knows of the most popular characters like Spiderman and Batman and even then they're probably not overly familiar with even those characters. Even if you're familiar with characters like Thanos and Ultron, it's not like we've ever seen them on the big screen until now. 

[MMDE]

11 hours ago, BestUsername---- said:

Secondly, because while they are probably the same people who believe that media does not make a violent person, which I agree, they are also the same people saying Joker will cause another attack.

 

I think what you describe is those same people 5-10 years ago, but they've changed.

[BestUsername----]

31 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

I think what you describe is those same people 5-10 years ago, but they've changed.

I’m sorry re reading this it sounds confusing. I meant the people who say that the media isn’t responsible for violent outbursts, are also the same people who will blame Joker for someone’s violent outburst.

 

6 hours ago, starcrunch061 said:

I had put that stupid episode out of my mind. But thanks to you, it's back.

Epsiode?

[yowzagabowza]

On 10/10/2019 at 10:33 AM, starcrunch061 said:

Well, not to be the negative nelly, but I hated this movie. The Joker is one of my favorite villains of all time, because he's a villain. He doesn't have that moral mushiness that Marvel always has. He's a force of evil, and we're lacking those people in comics and entertainment. I've grown tired of the, "He's a villain, because of circumstance." Whatever happened to being bad, because you're bad? We don't need personality traits. I loved Nolan's Joker, because he understood this. How many times in the Dark Knight did the Joker lie about his upbringing, or his life before? And this wasn't the first time, either. In the Batman animated series, there was a great episode where Harley (as a psychiatrist) is talking to Batman about the Joker's past, and Batman just laughs and says, "Oh, so that's his story now?"

 

We need more Anton Chigurhs in our movies, and less of this victim of circumstance crap.

 

That being said, I despise the snowflakes who complain that this movie might inspire people to do evil. Apparently, just like the Joker movie, people can't be held responsible for their own actions. It's gotta be the fault of something they watched, or heard, or played!

I really like your take on a villain being evil for evils sake and nothing else. "Some people just want to see the world burn" and all. 

 

But I have to disagree with the concern over this movie influencing people who may be on the edge (and stop with the snowflake crap, it takes so much away from any valid points you make). 

The adoration Joker receives at the end, the very public way he "came out", the persona he adopts (not Arthur, but Joker) are a very compelling anti-hero formula. 

I certainly don't think the movie is dangerous or any more deserving of criticism than similar ones before it, but to outright deny the dark nature and groundedness is misguided.

[MMDE]

47 minutes ago, BestUsername---- said:

I’m sorry re reading this it sounds confusing. I meant the people who say that the media isn’t responsible for violent outbursts, are also the same people who will blame Joker for someone’s violent outburst.

 

I think I understood you correctly. I'm saying the people you think says the media isn't responsible for violent outbursts, doesn't do so anymore. They did 5-10 years ago. Now, these days, those same people will argue the media can cause people to be violent etc.

[BestUsername----]

I don’t think you understood me. What I’m trying to say is this.

The left and SJW’s don’t believe that media can cause violence, while the right does. But SJW’s like to fit their own narrative so they contradict themselves, as always, and are saying this movie will cause another theatre shooting. That’s why the movie is getting hate.

 

You can tell me I’m dumb right now and this is exactly how you understood it. I just like convey my messages clearly especially in politics.

[Elvick_]

On 10/6/2019 at 8:04 AM, EdwardTheMartyr said:

Alita was getting hated on? I didn't notice any of that.

Just the type of sites that call people misogynists if they don't like a movie like Captain Marvel/Fem-Ghostbusters, or a show like Batwoman... because you couldn't possibly hate it for a reason other than staring a women as main characters. Women never star in bad movies or shows after all. And those evil misogynerds never like women in anything, those incel nerds hate Alien so much. /s

So it wasn't really a big deal, but it was there. From what I remember there was one blog [calling these things articles is too kind] complaining about her being "objectified", which felt like a bunch of projection. The movie literally has a line saying her body is built for battle. And there was a bit of a wave of people complaining that her body changing form to a fit youthful girl was bad, I forget why, I assume it was some "body shaming" nonsense argument but I can't remember exactly.

Just the usual faux outrage about nothing.

 

topic - I'm glad people are liking the movie. It's not my type of film so I probably won't ever watch it, but the whole circus (heh) around it by the dumb media has been ridiculously annoying. Hope it makes a billion, but I'm not sure if it will or not. Would just be a nice fuck you to those whiners. And they're still trying to find something to pin on the film to make it bad. It's just a movie, if it's not your type of film just don't go see it. I never called to ban the stupid Saw movies. I just didn't watch them.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Elvick_

[Upendo_Vitani]

I love Joker and I am very excited to see the movie hopefully soon. The trailers make it look amazing (though I hate how most trailers these days reveal all the best parts of movies. Like why buy a ticket I'll just watch the trailer twice? Lol) but I certainly don't give a flying hoot about the politics surrounding it. Anybody who thinks it's movies or games fault for people committing violent acts are ignorant imo. I just want to watch a good movie worth my $40 in theatre food. 

[RevengeancePrime]

Just watched it and while I don't think it's a good Joker film, I do think it's an amazing film, definitely one of my favourites in recent years. I don't think it's a good Joker film because it's not faithful to the character like others have mentioned. Joaquin Phoenix delivered a spectacular performance, but I don't think he outdid Heath Ledger. The soundtrack was brilliant and the film was shot really well. 

[EdwardTheMartyr]

8 hours ago, Elvick_ said:

Just the type of sites that call people misogynists if they don't like a movie like Captain Marvel/Fem-Ghostbusters, or a show like Batwoman... because you couldn't possibly hate it for a reason other than staring a women as main characters. Women never star in bad movies or shows after all. And those evil misogynerds never like women in anything, those incel nerds hate Alien so much. /s

So it wasn't really a big deal, but it was there. From what I remember there was one blog [calling these things articles is too kind] complaining about her being "objectified", which felt like a bunch of projection. The movie literally has a line saying her body is built for battle. And there was a bit of a wave of people complaining that her body changing form to a fit youthful girl was bad, I forget why, I assume it was some "body shaming" nonsense argument but I can't remember exactly.

Just the usual faux outrage about nothing.

 

topic - I'm glad people are liking the movie. It's not my type of film so I probably won't ever watch it, but the whole circus (heh) around it by the dumb media has been ridiculously annoying. Hope it makes a billion, but I'm not sure if it will or not. Would just be a nice fuck you to those whiners. And they're still trying to find something to pin on the film to make it bad. It's just a movie, if it's not your type of film just don't go see it. I never called to ban the stupid Saw movies. I just didn't watch them.

It's quite amusing how people compete in an effort to get as much pity as they can. Such weak people.

[CyrahOmega]

Joaquin is a brilliant actor. I saw some behind the scenes chase scenes and it looked promising. Can't wait to watch.

 

[starcrunch061]

19 hours ago, BestUsername---- said:

Episode?

 

Event. Moment in time. I assume you’re talking about the alternate cover that was an homage to The Killing Joke?

 

18 hours ago, yowzagabowza said:

I really like your take on a villain being evil for evils sake and nothing else. "Some people just want to see the world burn" and all. 

 

But I have to disagree with the concern over this movie influencing people who may be on the edge (and stop with the snowflake crap, it takes so much away from any valid points you make). 

The adoration Joker receives at the end, the very public way he "came out", the persona he adopts (not Arthur, but Joker) are a very compelling anti-hero formula. 

I certainly don't think the movie is dangerous or any more deserving of criticism than similar ones before it, but to outright deny the dark nature and groundedness is misguided.

 

I don’t buy it. I paraphrase the late Frank Zappa - he wrote a song about dental floss, but did anyone’s teeth get cleaner?

 

If you don’t like snowflake, I can call them babies, or tattletales. Honestly, snowflake is probably the wrong term; I don’t think the vast majority of these media and internet types could care less if a criminal is inspired by a movie. They just want a spotlight.

 

and where did I deny the movie’s “dark nature”? I merely said it’s absurd to worry, in advance, of the effect of the movie on potential criminals. Compelling anti-hero formula? Maybe, but no more compelling than, e.g., suggesting that FFVII celebrates terrorism.

Edited October 12, 2019 by starcrunch061

[BestUsername----]

1 hour ago, starcrunch061 said:

Event. Moment in time. I assume you’re talking about the alternate cover that was an homage to The Killing Joke?

Yeah, sorry you started talking about a animation so I assumed you thought I was talking about that awful movie. But yes, the cover that had to be pulled because no one understood it outside of the readers.

[majob]

Hard to believe this was from Todd Philips, the director who's primarily known for his comedies like The Hangover and Due Date and in the most ironic twist of all, it's a movie about a comedian with little actual humor.

[Alvexas]

This movie was phenomenal. I was surprised by almost everything that happened and as a person who has watched almost every movie that is watchable on the internet that’s something. From beginning to end it had my full attention and not a single explosion happened until near the end (that I can recall). It’s very rare a movie can truly represent a mental disorder well but the amazing acting from Phoenix was able to show it well. The progression of the character into the joker was perfect. The fact as he slowly turned into joker and doing worse and worse things despite his appearance physically and mentally looking healthier as it happens is phenomenal. The movie manages to get the audience to like Arthur or at least root for him is impressive because he does bad things and you know it’s bad but it never asks you to forgive him for it just accept him (in a way). 
 

If you haven’t seen this movie yet get up and leave your house right now and go see it.

[damon8r351]

Thank you Saturday Night Live for treating Joker with all the gravitas it deserved. ?

 

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by damon8r351

[Baranov_925]

Joker is so bad that even Aurora Movie Theater doesn't show it.