NathanielJohn Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 This idea introduces tons of problems and solves literally none. Team accounts aren't against the site rules here, and you're effectively proposing to make them against the rules (well, against the rules for the "standard" leaderboard anyway). But the whole reason that they're not against the rules is because it's 100% unenforceable -- there's way too much gray area, and there's simply no actually reliable way to detect which accounts are and are not team accounts. Also, there's literally no advantage to someone admitting to being a team account. They're a team account because they want to get high on the leaderboards, so why would they then opt out of the main leaderboard? Especially when the penalty that you propose for being "caught" is that they are... moved over to the other leaderboard. Why have a self-reporting system at all then? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, NathanielJohn said: Also, there's literally no advantage to someone admitting to being a team account. They're a team account because they want to get high on the leaderboards, so why would they then opt out of the main leaderboard? Especially when the penalty that you propose for being "caught" is that they are... moved over to the other leaderboard. Why have a self-reporting system at all then? That one's easy. Team account today can be #10 on the leaderboard as it is now. If they're separated, remove the individuals, and they will actually move up. Everyone will. Well... except if you're #1 of course. I do respect the feedback from those who are not for this. Again, it's just an idea being thrown out. In no way did I expect this to be "yes, omg, awesome, let's do it" - it's simply to open a discussion regarding individuals vs teams. I wouldn't say it doesn't solve any issues, personally, but that's me being biased. Stacks and everything has already been discussed regarding leaderboards, this hasn't... I think, lol. EDIT: Just to confirm as well, it was not my intention to make it sound like a rule should be implemented against team accounts. As others have stated, it doesn't break the rules, it's not illegal, etc etc all that jazz. This is simply an attempt to level the playing field for those who are solo trophy hunters and those who have a team working on one account, that's all. Edited November 20, 2019 by Velvet 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepheroithisgod Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 3 51 minutes ago, dzstrpc said: There are so many ''ideas'' supposed to be implemented to this site, ribbons etc. so I can't see this leaderboard happening. Why not a Stack Free Leaderboard, a No Multi Region Leaderboard etc. while we're at it. I think this is what really needs to happen to make leaderboards more competitive/meaningful. Sadly, there are so many games at this point that allow you to earn a platinum in under an hour and earn that plat 3 times or more, that the leaderboard is currently who played the most of these. And while it is fair to say that people will always gravitate towards the path of least resistance, there's a pretty big difference between a game that takes less than an hr vs. something like Sly or Spyro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AffectatiousDonk Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 We don’t need another leaderboard a simple apology to the community for misleading, deceiving and lying to them would suffice in this particular case. Most trophy hunters would respect that and have no issues. After the hate that has been fuelled on here the last few weeks I find this incredibly ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, AffectatiousDonk said: After the hate that has been fuelled on here the last few weeks I find this incredibly ironic. I'm doing my best to keep this separate from all of that, albeit perhaps failing while doing so. It was just an attempt to open up a discussion on the matter. The timing, and even perhaps myself being the one to post it, makes it ironic, I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AffectatiousDonk Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, Velvet said: I'm doing my best to keep this separate from all of that, albeit perhaps failing while doing so. It was just an attempt to open up a discussion on the matter. The timing, and even perhaps myself being the one to post it, makes it ironic, I understand. It is what it is. Goodluck with your proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvengedEvil Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, X_Wizi_X said: The first thing to see is, obviously, what is their "trophies per day" percentage in their main profile. A number > 8-9 is a good starting point. That's a very weak indicator. I have 10.37 trophies per day and I'm not a team account. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pot1414 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) I'm not against this, I just know that it isn't going to work.As others have mentioned there are too many grey areas as far as catching team accounts is concerned and I can guarantee you that nobody is going to admit to it. 51 minutes ago, Velvet said: That one's easy. Team account today can be #10 on the leaderboard as it is now. If they're separated, remove the individuals, and they will actually move up. Everyone will. Well... except if you're #1 of course. Well not really.You have to look at the big picture.While the position number will be bigger it will not hold the same weight.Holding the 500th position in a leaderboard with a thousand participants isn't very good compared to the current one with hundred thousands participants. Edited November 20, 2019 by pot1414 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, pot1414 said: I'm not against this, I just know that it isn't going to work.As others have mentioned there are too many grey areas as far as catching team accounts is concerned and I can guarantee you that nobody is going to admit to it. Yeah I think that'll end up being the general consensus coming from this, and that's ok. It was just an attempt at a solution of some sort, even if an incomplete one. ~ Thank you everyone for the feedback on this. It's always good to see countering arguments to this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmet_time Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Personally, I am a big fan of the concept of multiple leader boards. Most of the complaints about the trophy system are solved simply by looking at the Leader Boards through different lenses. Hate 'EZPZ' plats? Have a leader board that only counts games with uncommon and rarer plats (drastically less cumbersome than the proposed Ribbon System, IMHO). Hate stacking? Have a leader board that only counts one stack of a game. And so forth. This gives you another way to look at the information, and ultimately set your own rules for where and how you want to complete. The problem, as others have pointed out, is that this is on the honor system and there is no reason to think people would adhere to it. That said, I'm not sure if that really is a problem. Let people self-report as team accounts if they so choose and list them. The worst thing that could happen is that a team account chooses to claim to be an individual, which really only leaves us where we are not. However, I think that it should merely be a piece of optional information. No penalty should be associated with an 'incorrect' report and there should be no ability to dispute someone else's identification. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skroq Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 I think people would like to see more custom leaderboards, but I wouldn't change how things are now. There is one general/main leaderboard where teams are allowed. I say this a solo gamer, I don't really care people are teams and pay for the trophies until those are done legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X_Wizi_X Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, AvengedEvil said: That's a very weak indicator. I have 10.37 trophies per day and I'm not a team account. Keep reading what I wrote after that. Quote If they fall into the 1st case the whole team account thing will be wrong, because I've seen a lot of people that plays just visual novels and/or very easy games and platinuming 5 of those 1 hour plats in a day won't do them a team. Edited November 20, 2019 by X_Wizi_X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixyLove Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 I just want to say that the proposal was very fun to read. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havok_Knight Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Alternate option: Have an individual "Solo" Leaderboard, "Team" Leaderboard and an "Everyone" Leaderboard (which is what the current leaderboard is). This way people who opt in for the "Team" setting can still see their placements overall still while also seeing who else is a Team Hunter and how they are doing against them, and people with the "Solo" setting can see how they match up against other Solo Hunters and if they want, can do cross reference between the "Team" and "Everyone" Leaderboards to see how they match up against people that do Team Hunting. This way is not that much different than games that have Casual, Ranked and Lobby Leaderboards for their stat tracking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_-_808 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Havok_Knight said: Alternate option: Have an individual "Solo" Leaderboard, "Team" Leaderboard and an "Everyone" Leaderboard (which is what the current leaderboard is). This way people who opt in for the "Team" setting can still see their placements overall still while also seeing who else is a Team Hunter and how they are doing against them, and people with the "Solo" setting can see how they match up against other Solo Hunters and if they want, can do cross reference between the "Team" and "Everyone" Leaderboards to see how they match up against people that do Team Hunting. This way is not that much different than games that have Casual, Ranked and Lobby Leaderboards for their stat tracking. Excellent idea, but runs into the same problem. It's a chunk of extra work and relies heavily on people being honest. What's to prevent a team account from signing up for the solo board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havok_Knight Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said: Excellent idea, but runs into the same problem. It's a chunk of extra work and relies heavily on people being honest. What's to prevent a team account from signing up for the solo board? Outside of the extra work for the tracking, you could just have the default for all profiles set to "Everyone" and they will only show on that leaderboard until they pick "Solo" or "Team" which is locked and can only be changed by site staff. And yes, honesty plays a big factor into this idea, but so do most things in life. Should a Team Profile pick the "Solo" option and they are found out, they will be forcefully changed to the "Team" option and vice-versa. If the profile owner decides to raise a ruckus about it and get upset, there can be an option for site staff to have that profile set Permanently to "Everyone" only and they will gain no benefit from the other two leaderboards, which some people may care a lot about. Edited November 20, 2019 by Havok_Knight 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuffinz_ Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 I think there are a lot that would honestly opt for team. Maybe I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post B1rvine Posted November 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) Too many types of teams. Too many problems. Too many grey areas. Too many things for me to do already. Edited November 20, 2019 by B1rvine 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothGirlMaxine Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Like anything else in life, this idea has it's pros and cons. Not worth the hassle in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSXtreme_ Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Let's Do This!!! The dispute threads are getting boring...I need a new drama for early morning entertainment to go with my coffee. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddie1989 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 14 hours ago, AvengedEvil said: That's a very weak indicator. I have 10.37 trophies per day and I'm not a team account. Dude you haven't played a game that takes longer than a few hours to complete in months, most of them are well above 50% rarity so yours would be easily identifiable as doable. Whereas someone who is playing The Witcher on the PS4 at the same time as Skyrim on the PS3 all whilst getting the trophies for them is evidently not playing alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copanele Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Proposal sounds interesting but ... the HONESTY is a very big issue and as @B1rvine mentioned... don't murder the cheat removal team they have enough on their hands keeping track of all the cousins and cats autopopping trophies as it is. Still, was interesting to read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesius Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 First of all, I'd like to mention that I think the proposal is well and clearly written Secondly, I'd also like to mention that I don't care a single bit about leaderboards ? Full disclosure here... But, I wanted to point out that it is technically illegal to share account information with one exception: if it is for family reasons and the consoles are all in the same household. Now, I dunno how team accounts operate, but I imagine that more often than not all team members are playing on the same account on multiple consoles without geographic constraints. It would be kinda dumb of those accounts to check a box admitting to be doing so. Not that Sony cares, but I wouldn't "encourage" team accounts by giving them a separate leaderboard to compete on. They just shouldn't be on any leaderboard, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Vergil Posted November 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2019 Why not remove the leaderboards entirely? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 47 minutes ago, Vergil said: Why not remove the leaderboards entirely? Now that’s a great idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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