SPOILERS : Just beat the game and have so many questions. Let's unravel this thing together

[Cloudbahamut]

Okay so up until the party saves Aerith in Shinra HQ the game follows the original pretty closely. Then things just become nuts. The party apparently travels into another realm, defeats Destiny itself (Whisper Harbinger), then somehow faces off against Sephiroth himself and causes serious changes in the FF VII canon. BIggs is suddenly alive again and Zack survived 5 years earlier and went together with Cloud to Midgar.

The way I understood it is that after having been thrown into the Lifestream (5 years ago) Sephiroth learned about what will happen if everything goes as it did in the original FF VII (He loses). Using his power over JENOVA cells he then starts changing things by appearing to Cloud and taking control of the Sephiroth clones (people from Nibelheim injected with JENOVA cells by Hojo after the Nibelheim incident). This triggers a chain reaction that effectively changes the timeline in some places causing Destiny/Fate to send out the Whispers to ensure that deviations in the timeline will be corrected and everything will go as it did in the original game. Sephiroth also seems to have so much power over the clones that he can shapeshift them into looking and sounding like Sephiroth himself as seen in the Shinra HQ (Something he could not do in the original game where the Sephiroth controlled JENOVA only turned into Sephiroths form because she has shapeshifting powers but apparently in the Remake these powers were also given to the clones because of JENOVA's DNA. At leat that is the only explanation I have at this point).

Now for some reason the Whispers also had to intervene 5 years ago to ensure Zacks death and defeating the Whispers (and thus removing them from the timeline) then led to Zacks survival. Anyway both Sephiroth and Aerith know a great deal about the future (or well the original future that is) most likely from their connection to the Lifestream and Aerith is aware that Sephiroth has changed some events by using the clones and also showing Cloud certain glimpses of the future and influencing him, leading to slightly changed new timeline. At that point the timeline is however still following the main events of the original game because the Whispers keep things in line.

Sephiroth then decides that this just won't do and (using another clone as host body ?) lures the party into the realm of the Whispers to remove them, thus ensuring that Sephiroth can change events in the future to his advantage allowing him to defy his own original fate and succeed in destroying the planet. This I still understand.

But here is where I am massively confused:

- In the original game Sephiroth took control of JENOVA's body, commanded her to shapeshift into his form and kill the President. In the Remake however Sephiroth is seen in the Shinra HQ while JENOVA is still confined and it is in fact Sephiroth who removes JENOVA's body in person. But Sephiroth cannot have a physical form since his original body was destroyed and his mind resides in the Lifestream. So how can Sephiroth be walking around and killing people in the Shinra HQ if not using JENOVA's body to do so ?

- How is Sephiroth appearing again on the Midgar Highway in the flesh and can open a Portal to the Whisper realm ? And what exactly did Aerith do do that portal afterwards before the party stepped through ?

- Which leads me to one of the most confusing questions I have: Why does the party decide to remove the Whispers and change their story ? What makes them think that their original destiny (original FF VII) is so bad that it needs changing ? I mean in the original timeline they defeat Sephiroth and save the planet. Why changing that and risking an outcome where Sephiroth can (potentially) actually win ? Isn't the Whispers ensuring the flow of destiny a good thing ? Why would the heroes want to change that ? This is never really explained at all. Suddenly they are like "Yeah lets remove them and allow history to change". But why ? Drives me nuts.

- Once they defeat the Whisper King (as I am calling him) suddenly Sephiroth appears and there is a massive (and pretty damn awesome) battle against him. But this can not be actually the real Sephiroth can it ? Like I said the real one has no body and his mind is in the Lifestream. How can he be there in the Whisper realm, make it look like he succeeded (in destroying the world) and physically fight the party (and be already so weak that they defeat him already at this point) ? Was this Sephiroth using another vessel like in the Shinra HQ ? An illusion created by the Whispers to stop the party from changing history ?

- However the Sephiroth that takes Cloud to the Edge of Creation is undoubtedly the real one. I interpreted that scene as Sephiroths mind trying to manipulate Cloud into giving into him ("Join me and we can defy fate together") by promising him to change history together for the better (obviously a lie and Clouds mind did not fall for it) and when Cloud refuses Sephiroth shows him glimpses of their future final duel.

- And now about Zack. Okay due to Sephiroths meddling in the Lifestream (since he controls JENOVA cells he also can influence Zack) he probably tried to make sure that Zack actually survives as this would mean no Cloud joining Avalanche and defeating Sephiroth later. Thus the Whispers intervene and ensure Zacks death. But then the party removes the Whispers and Sephiroth succeeds in ensuring Zacks survival (maybe empowering him through the JENOVA cells ?). Zack and catatonic Cloud then go to Midgar as seen in the ending. But wouldn't that mean that this changes Clouds entire story ? Why is he still there at the end with the others, wielding the Buster sword if Zack survived and never passed the sword onto him in the changed timeline ? Better yet why is Cloud still thinking he is Ex-SOLDIER and Zack is nowhere to be seen in the present day ? If he survived wouldn't Zack be with them ? Certainly with Aerith and Cloud. Or did Zack die after all before the events at Mako Reactor 1 (but after going to Midgar with Cloud) ?


- I get why the writers went this route at the end. They want to make sure that no character is safe from here on out and that people who know the original in and out will no longer know what will happen. Because from here on out everything from the original could still happen or it couldn't. Or some things from the original can happen while others don't.  The problem I see with this is that people wanted a faithful remake of the original FF VII for so long. They did not want an alternate universe version of it. They want to see this iconic original story and its legendary moments from the original remade and up until Chapter 17/18 that's pretty much what the Remake delivered before it suddenly turned into basically a FF VII Reboot instead of a Remake. This is bold AF and it is a fresh take but on the other hand it also really messes with the beloved original and it brings to mind a line from the movie Scream 4:

"You forgot the first rule of Remakes: Don't fuck with the original"

However just because the story CAN be different now does not mean that it will be. The main story could still be the same (hunting Sephiroth, finding the black materia, Aerith killed, Sephiroth resurrected in the flesh, Weapons rising, killing Hojo and fighting Sephiroth in the Northern Crater and saving the planet from Meteor) with changes only in between or with some of the details and circumstances changing but the overall story still being the same. Because honestly I just can not imagine Square Enix remaking FF VII and not wanting to show all the iconic story moments that the game is so beloved for. They probably want to make it fresh and not as predictable for everyone who knows the original but I can not imagine they went into this wanting to create a new story for FF VII and not adapting all the classic moments from the original.

[cometowner]

i think whatever you have up are considered spoilers and you must started first SPOILER AHEAD so reader are warned .. so i am requesting the admin to close and remove this for good

[Cloudbahamut]

Just now, cometowner said:

i think whatever you have up are considered spoilers and you must started first SPOILER AHEAD so reader are warned .. so i am requesting the admin to close and remove this for good

Are you serious ? Dude of course there is tons of spoilers in a thread titled "I have just beaten the game and I have questions". What the hell did you expect ?

[You]

I posted a similar thread a few days ago regarding the final part of the game, lol, but yeah just edit your post and put

 

[ spoiler ]

 

right at the top

 

and

 

[ /spoiler ]

 

right at the end of your post

 

 

of course without the spaces between the brackets.

 

Will take you like 20 seconds, or I guess the post you just created will likely get deleted.

Edited April 17, 2020 by enaysoft

[ShadowReplicant]

2 hours ago, Cloudbahamut said:

- Which leads me to one of the most confusing questions I have: Why does the party decide to remove the Whispers and change their story ? What makes them think that their original destiny (original FF VII) is so bad that it needs changing ? I mean in the original timeline they defeat Sephiroth and save the planet. Why changing that and risking an outcome where Sephiroth can (potentially) actually win ? Isn't the Whispers ensuring the flow of destiny a good thing ? Why would the heroes want to change that ? This is never really explained at all. Suddenly they are like "Yeah lets remove them and allow history to change". But why ? Drives me nuts.

 

My guess is that they are being tricked by Sephiroth, who isn't powerful enough to defeat Fate by himself? Maybe? They've only seen glimpses of the future, like meteor hitting the planet, so they probably think they failed and the planet is doomed. This of course raises the question of how much does Aerith know about the future. Because if she already knows that she needs to die to save the planet, why would she want to change it? Maybe she's aware of the events in Advent Children and knows that Sephiroth will keep coming back. Maybe she wants a chance to find another way to stop him completely this time. Who knows, it's a complete clusterfuck.

 

2 hours ago, Cloudbahamut said:

- In the original game Sephiroth took control of JENOVA's body, commanded her to shapeshift into his form and kill the President. In the Remake however Sephiroth is seen in the Shinra HQ while JENOVA is still confined and it is in fact Sephiroth who removes JENOVA's body in person. But Sephiroth cannot have a physical form since his original body was destroyed and his mind resides in the Lifestream. So how can Sephiroth be walking around and killing people in the Shinra HQ if not using JENOVA's body to do so ?

 

2 hours ago, Cloudbahamut said:

- Once they defeat the Whisper King (as I am calling him) suddenly Sephiroth appears and there is a massive (and pretty damn awesome) battle against him. But this can not be actually the real Sephiroth can it ? Like I said the real one has no body and his mind is in the Lifestream. How can he be there in the Whisper realm, make it look like he succeeded (in destroying the world) and physically fight the party (and be already so weak that they defeat him already at this point) ? Was this Sephiroth using another vessel like in the Shinra HQ ? An illusion created by the Whispers to stop the party from changing history ?

 

I'm pretty sure the Sephiroth we see in the remake are the two copies (49 and 2). The first copy (49) takes Jenova and is defeated after he stabs Barret, at which point the other copy (2) comes in. He's the one we see jump from the rooftop and I'd say that's the Sephiroth we fight at the end. There's no way we're fighting the real Sephiroth, he's way too powerful for the party at that point. Here's where I'm confused though: Is it only Cloud that sees Sephiroth (instead of a robed figure that vaguely looks like Sephiroth), or can the others (the party and Palmer) see him too?

 

2 hours ago, Cloudbahamut said:

- And now about Zack. Okay due to Sephiroths meddling in the Lifestream (since he controls JENOVA cells he also can influence Zack) he probably tried to make sure that Zack actually survives as this would mean no Cloud joining Avalanche and defeating Sephiroth later. Thus the Whispers intervene and ensure Zacks death. But then the party removes the Whispers and Sephiroth succeeds in ensuring Zacks survival (maybe empowering him through the JENOVA cells ?). Zack and catatonic Cloud then go to Midgar as seen in the ending. But wouldn't that mean that this changes Clouds entire story ? Why is he still there at the end with the others, wielding the Buster sword if Zack survived and never passed the sword onto him in the changed timeline ? Better yet why is Cloud still thinking he is Ex-SOLDIER and Zack is nowhere to be seen in the present day ? If he survived wouldn't Zack be with them ? Certainly with Aerith and Cloud. Or did Zack die after all before the events at Mako Reactor 1 (but after going to Midgar with Cloud) ?

 

The way I see it, the whole Zack thing is just fan service. People wanted to see him survive and SE gave them that moment. I think it's pretty clear that Zack survives in an alternate timeline. He's still dead in the Remake timeline, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Overall, I'm disappointed with the way they decided to handle the story. All the new story elements (Whispers, Fate...) are prime examples of sloppy writing. I'm not against them making changes, but this whole meta-narrative is just stupid. If you want to change things, just change them. Don't pretend like you're giving fans exactly what they wanted and then at the very end tell them to go fuck themselves. The fact that a lot of people seem to like the new ending and aren't even questioning any of this cryptic bullshit tells me, that they're simply not interested in good storytelling and just want to see people throw buildings at each other. I'm going to buy the Ultimania that comes out later this month and I hope it sheds more light on WTF all this means.

[Herbalistiikka]

2 hours ago, ShadowReplicant said:

Overall, I'm disappointed with the way they decided to handle the story. All the new story elements (Whispers, Fate...) are prime examples of sloppy writing. I'm not against them making changes, but this whole meta-narrative is just stupid. If you want to change things, just change them. Don't pretend like you're giving fans exactly what they wanted and then at the very end tell them to go fuck themselves. The fact that a lot of people seem to like the new ending and aren't even questioning any of this cryptic bullshit tells me, that they're simply not interested in good storytelling and just want to see people throw buildings at each other. I'm going to buy the Ultimania that comes out later this month and I hope it sheds more light on WTF all this means.

Honestly, the original wasn't the pinnacle of writing either and in general games still rarely deliver on the narrative side. That said, people really do not pay attention to details and mostly go with the flow. Yakuza is a series that's a prime example of this - gameplay conflicts what's happening and sometimes the cutscenes conflict what's said. Small holes in cutscenes themselves and stupid things happen just to move the plot along... and nowadays they're just unquestionably praised as stories. More or less anyway.

[ShadowReplicant]

29 minutes ago, Herbalistiikka said:

Honestly, the original wasn't the pinnacle of writing either and in general games still rarely deliver on the narrative side. That said, people really do not pay attention to details and mostly go with the flow. Yakuza is a series that's a prime example of this - gameplay conflicts what's happening and sometimes the cutscenes conflict what's said. Small holes in cutscenes themselves and stupid things happen just to move the plot along... and nowadays they're just unquestionably praised as stories. More or less anyway.

 

Sure, I'm not saying it's a flawless masterpiece of storytelling, but at the very least it's a story that has stood the test of time. FF VII has always been one of the more grounded Final Fantasies, with relatively simple, relatable themes. There are a lot of supernatural elements, but they work in the context of the world. Fate and alternate realities on the other hand, they tend to... complicate things, to put it mildly. And the writers at Square Enix are obsessed with that shit. The ending comes dangerously close to Final Fantasy XIII and Kingdom Hearts territory, and I just pray they don't go further down that rabbit hole.

[Herbalistiikka]

31 minutes ago, ShadowReplicant said:

 

Sure, I'm not saying it's a flawless masterpiece of storytelling, but at the very least it's a story that has stood the test of time. FF VII has always been one of the more grounded Final Fantasies, with relatively simple, relatable themes. There are a lot of supernatural elements, but they work in the context of the world. Fate and alternate realities on the other hand, they tend to... complicate things, to put it mildly. And the writers at Square Enix are obsessed with that shit. The ending comes dangerously close to Final Fantasy XIII and Kingdom Hearts territory, and I just pray they don't go further down that rabbit hole.

 

At this point I'd just take the ending of Remake as "this is its own thing now and not the exact same story told twice" and stop thinking about alternate realities and stuff. Unless of course they delve more into that stuff in the next game and beyond. It's probably more fitting to try and make it its own thing (bit more leeway as to how the game progresses? Yuffie and Vincent will be more included at least) while still recreating iconic moments.

[SnowNinjaRaccoon]

The one thing I agree with the OP the most one is what you said about the game until chapter 17/18 and then the last part. Until the battle with Motor Ball I loved the Remake completely, but then the game suddenly turns into some Kingdom Hearts bullshit. Even though Motor Ball isn't what you would imagine to be a final boss of a game like this, the final part felt stretched and pointless to me.

[JoaLoft]

Most of it, I loved. I was even down with the first confrontation with Sephiroth at the end there, felt really epic at the very least.

 

But those Whispers ... I have no idea how to feel about those. Granted, we don't have the full story available yet, so I hope it'll make some sense in the end. Because this story doesn't need to get convoluted by adding beings of Destiny who are there to ensure that things stay exactly the same, although they seem to be hinting that the party will be defying fate itself in the rest of the remake entries, etcetera. See where I'm going with this?

 

Most of the remake was incredible. The Whispers can go fuck themselves for now, however.

[karcci]

Oh my I love Zack and everything, but seeing Zack storyline going this way I'm confused and scared. Messing with time and timelines never work in my opinion, and I'm afraid this will be another KH Dream Drop Distance (which was horrible imo). I was hoping for a Zack DLC or something with Crisis Cire vibes at most, but this feels just fan service. 

 

Overall the game was fun to play and beautiful, but we'll see where the story goes.

[Nitemares-----]

14 hours ago, cometowner said:

i think whatever you have up are considered spoilers and you must started first SPOILER AHEAD so reader are warned .. so i am requesting the admin to close and remove this for good

 

Says spoilers in title, clicks anyways, gets mad cause there's spoilers ?

[Cloudbahamut]

Yeah I also felt that the Whispers and the characters defying fate to free themselves from outside constraints was very much like FF XIII (Probably no surprise that the trio that made that game - Nomura, Kitase and Toriyama - also made VII Remake). And ironically you could take all that Whisper stuff out of the game and go straight from the Highway chase to the fight against Sephiroth and then have the characters leave Midgar at the end like they do and it would work perfectly.

The Whisper stuff also complicates things and raises so many logic questions that were unnecessary. Like if Sephiroth knows what happens in the original timeline why didn't he already try to change it in the original game ? Why has he this information now but didn't in the original timeline ? Some speculate it is because that the Sephiroth in Remake is from the future (Advent Children) but if that is future Sephiroth then where is the original Sephiroth at the same time ? Wouldn't that mean that there are TWO Sephiroths being around now ? Same with Aerith. People say she is from the future too but how can future Aerith take over present day Aeriths body ? She was never able to do something like this before and there is no precedent or basis for such a power. Not to mention that turning FF VII into another time travel mess is something I really refuse to accept. And Aerith only seems to know some things but not everything from the future which she would if she really were future Aerith.

I like the concept of Sephiroths knowledge of the future resulting in some changes (basically everything that was not in the original), explaining why Remake differs in some things but still following the same main story and recreating all of the story moments from the original. In the end everything from the original Midgar storyline was in the Remake and most of it was very faithful to the original with only small changes and expanding some things. It was a perfect balance and I like the concept of explaining in-universe why these changes occured. But they really should have left it at that without bringing in Fate, Whispers and changing timelines.
 

11 hours ago, ShadowReplicant said:

 

My guess is that they are being tricked by Sephiroth, who isn't powerful enough to defeat Fate by himself? Maybe? They've only seen glimpses of the future, like meteor hitting the planet, so they probably think they failed and the planet is doomed. This of course raises the question of how much does Aerith know about the future. Because if she already knows that she needs to die to save the planet, why would she want to change it? Maybe she's aware of the events in Advent Children and knows that Sephiroth will keep coming back. Maybe she wants a chance to find another way to stop him completely this time. Who knows, it's a complete clusterfuck.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure the Sephiroth we see in the remake are the two copies (49 and 2). The first copy (49) takes Jenova and is defeated after he stabs Barret, at which point the other copy (2) comes in. He's the one we see jump from the rooftop and I'd say that's the Sephiroth we fight at the end. There's no way we're fighting the real Sephiroth, he's way too powerful for the party at that point. Here's where I'm confused though: Is it only Cloud that sees Sephiroth (instead of a robed figure that vaguely looks like Sephiroth), or can the others (the party and Palmer) see him too?

 

 

The way I see it, the whole Zack thing is just fan service. People wanted to see him survive and SE gave them that moment. I think it's pretty clear that Zack survives in an alternate timeline. He's still dead in the Remake timeline, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Overall, I'm disappointed with the way they decided to handle the story. All the new story elements (Whispers, Fate...) are prime examples of sloppy writing. I'm not against them making changes, but this whole meta-narrative is just stupid. If you want to change things, just change them. Don't pretend like you're giving fans exactly what they wanted and then at the very end tell them to go fuck themselves. The fact that a lot of people seem to like the new ending and aren't even questioning any of this cryptic bullshit tells me, that they're simply not interested in good storytelling and just want to see people throw buildings at each other. I'm going to buy the Ultimania that comes out later this month and I hope it sheds more light on WTF all this means.

Thanks, that helped me a great deal understanding some things more even though I do still not believe that the Zack thing is an alternate timeline but rather the result of an altered original timeline. But what you said about the clones makes a lot of sense.

I have also been wondering exactly what JENOVA Dreamwaver was. Red said she was an illusion while I had the impression that she was a part of JENOVA's body commanded by Sephiroth to attack the characters (like he did with JENOVA Life and Death in the original).

I was really hoping that there would be an Ultimania guide for this game so I really hope that this will give us official confirmation on some things and end some of the theories.

[PostGameBlues]

The game should have ended at Chapter 17 where they should have squeezed in the highway boss and deleted the entirety of Chapter 18. What's wrong with ending the game with the party standing at the end of the highway, looking over the horizon wondering what this new world has in store for them? If they felt like the highway boss wouldn't be a satisfying final boss then they should have made it so it was, instead of just putting it as a lame mini boss in the mini game. 

 

It also felt like this whole story beat with the whispers was done to implement or give way for fan service with the final battle with Sephiroth. I mean it was an awesome fight but uh, why the hell are we fighting him THIS EARLY?? Just look at the final sequence at the Edge of Creation that tries to imitate that 1v1 showdown with Sephiroth in the end and tell me that isn't fan service. Fighting Jenova Dreamweaver at Shinra HQ on the other hand made sense and I thought that was a great addition. When I actually realised we were gonna go ahead and change destiny by entering that portal in Chapter 18, I almost felt unenthusiastic about going ahead with the chapter or rather, felt like I just wanted to get it over and done with to finish this game. Liked the remake in general mainly due to the combat but the reboot aspect as well as technical issues like low res textures and lip syncing issues outside of cutscenes completely prevent myself from looking at this game as a 10/10.

Edited April 18, 2020 by PostGameBlues

[cometowner]

15 hours ago, Nitemares----- said:

 

Says spoilers in title, clicks anyways, gets mad cause there's spoilers ?

it was added later to titles ?

[Conor]

The finale was epic in terms of gameplay but utterly bamboozling from a narrative perspective.

I hope they gauge the fan reaction and not go off the rails completely in future installments. I'm totally open to seeing some story changes but I also fear that changing too much will just be bad. 

[Montyzu]

Square will only go back to make good games when Nomura retires. Seriously that guy is a broken record about fate and time lines and stuff, every single game that he makes is the same shit with different characters. Wait and see how FF7 becomes Final Kingdom Fantasy Hearts, just give him a couple more games.

 

I believe Jim Sterling said in one of his vídeos that all the whisperes did was pretty much Nomura finding a "lore friendly" way to give himself a blank card to do whatever he wants with the FF7 history.

 

There is already inconsistency with the whisperes themselves. If they are the guardians of fate and try to maintein everything as it was supposed to happen, they killed Wedge and saved Barret then why is Biggs still alive? The whisperes were there when the pillar was destroyed why they didnt make sure Biggs died? Nomura being Nomura and I should stop trying to take this Remake seriously Im so pissed that they are messing everything up. It was a good story they dont need to change it.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Montyzu

[Lord_Bane999]

You know when I think about the plot of the new remake everytime, I kinda laugh at how much Square Enix basically trolled alot of new players being like we designed this game to be new player friendly too.

 

But then it requires playing through Three previous games (one of which never released in the West) and a couple watching/reading material just to process what's going on in the whole story to still be only left with huge holes that may or may not get filled in the next "episodes".

[Ajescent]

54 minutes ago, Montyzu said:

Square will only go back to make good games when Nomura retires. Seriously that guy is a broken record about fate and time lines and stuff, every single game that he makes is the 

 

There is already inconsistency with the whisperes themselves. If they are the guardians of fate and try to maintein everything as it was supposed to happen, they killed Wedge and saved Barret then why is Biggs still alive? The whisperes were there when the pillar was destroyed why they didnt make sure Biggs died? Nomura being Nomura and I should stop trying to take this Remake seriously Im so pissed that they are messing everything up. It was a good story they dont need to change it.

I think by killing the Harbinger it means that all bets are off on who lives and dies. Biggs survives because the fates were not there to kill him.

[Cloudbahamut]

1 hour ago, Montyzu said:

Square will only go back to make good games when Nomura retires. Seriously that guy is a broken record about fate and time lines and stuff, every single game that he makes is the same shit with different characters. Wait and see how FF7 becomes Final Kingdom Fantasy Hearts, just give him a couple more games.

 

I believe Jim Sterling said in one of his vídeos that all the whisperes did was pretty much Nomura finding a "lore friendly" way to give himself a blank card to do whatever he wants with the FF7 history.

 

There is already inconsistency with the whisperes themselves. If they are the guardians of fate and try to maintein everything as it was supposed to happen, they killed Wedge and saved Barret then why is Biggs still alive? The whisperes were there when the pillar was destroyed why they didnt make sure Biggs died? Nomura being Nomura and I should stop trying to take this Remake seriously Im so pissed that they are messing everything up. It was a good story they dont need to change it.

Biggs survives because the Whispers no longer exist in this timeline. Exactly why and how will be revealed in the next games. He definitely died in the Pillar but somehow killing the Whispers undid this. Not sure why it also did not undo Wedges death or Barrets resurrection. Maybe removing the Whispers caused some ripple effects that led to some changes in the timeline instead of undoing things they did.

[YonahFuriae]

52 minutes ago, Cloudbahamut said:

Biggs survives because the Whispers no longer exist in this timeline. Exactly why and how will be revealed in the next games. He definitely died in the Pillar but somehow killing the Whispers undid this. Not sure why it also did not undo Wedges death or Barrets resurrection. Maybe removing the Whispers caused some ripple effects that led to some changes in the timeline instead of undoing things they did.

 

Don't give Nomura too much credit, you're basically going farther than he even have done. He doesn't have explanation for any of that, it's just fanservice weaving the narrative, so it'll be full of holes if he indeed goes that way which I hope he doesn't.

[DemonicDraco]

1 hour ago, Cloudbahamut said:

Biggs survives because the Whispers no longer exist in this timeline. Exactly why and how will be revealed in the next games. He definitely died in the Pillar but somehow killing the Whispers undid this. Not sure why it also did not undo Wedges death or Barrets resurrection. Maybe removing the Whispers caused some ripple effects that led to some changes in the timeline instead of undoing things they did.

 

Zack saves him.

[Montyzu]

2 hours ago, Cloudbahamut said:

Biggs survives because the Whispers no longer exist in this timeline. Exactly why and how will be revealed in the next games. He definitely died in the Pillar but somehow killing the Whispers undid this. Not sure why it also did not undo Wedges death or Barrets resurrection. Maybe removing the Whispers caused some ripple effects that led to some changes in the timeline instead of undoing things they did.

 

And Jesse? Man I am telling you this Remake is going to get "better and better".

[ShadeSplit]

I know everyone is annoyed, but for me, it was great to see the injustice of Zack dying become undone. The only real reason he was originally killed off was for the twist in Cloud's story. It never made sense that a natural first class Soldier with Zenova cells was killed by Shinra grunts (as evident by SE adding more and more of them each time they remade the scene). I would love to see him as a party member in the next game.

[ChaosDivider]

I have the same feelings as most people here. Loved the game up untill the final chapter. Honestly it didn't even feel like FF7 anymore when fighting the whispers in constant well over the top scenes. What justified the parties excuse for doing this when it was clearly what Sephiroth wanted? Makes no sense.

 

They were clearly just trying to find an excuse to change the storyline of the game which I have very mixed feelings about - the storyline will be different for everyone in the next game which will make it a new experience but they might fuck it up. Let's just hope that the changing destiny, whispers bullshit is over with.