SPOILERS : Just beat the game and have so many questions. Let's unravel this thing together

[Cloudbahamut]

2 minutes ago, ShadowReplicant said:

 

Yeah, I'd be willing to accept that. It's certainly a lot more in line with the established lore than Sephiroth traveling back in time like a goddamn Terminator. 

Same here. I absolutely refuse to accept that the Sephiroth in this game (especially the one at the Edge of Creation) is the actual Sephiroth from Advent Children and we have two different Sephiroths hanging around at the same time. Just no.

[KiritoSWX]

On 19/04/2020 at 9:49 AM, Cloudbahamut said:

Well Jessie is definitely dead. She literally died right in front of Cloud and Tifa. And the Whispers were not anywhere near that. And her death was a very important scene particularly with the buildup towards it. Biggs never clearly died onscreen. if you rewatch the scene with Biggs he was never clearly killed like Jessie was. He just sat there and stopped moving. He could have easily just lost his consciousness. When Barret later asked Cloud about it, Cloud never told him Biggs had died, only that he had been in "pretty bad shape". I am guessing that the Whispers would have waited to see wether Biggs would recover or not and if he did they would kill him to correct things like they apparently killed Wedge (Though the screen going black during that moment is very suspicious, even he could still be alive now)

 

 
Just to say, about Jessie, she can be alive , when you see the table before Biggs in bed, the glove belong to Jessie, not Biggs

[Cloudbahamut]

24 minutes ago, KiritoSWX said:

 
Just to say, about Jessie, she can be alive , when you see the table before Biggs in bed, the glove belong to Jessie, not Biggs

yeah people keep pointing out Jessies gloves on the table. But why does this mean she is alive ? Actually it is the opposite. If she were alive why would she leave her gloves on the table next to Biggs ? It is far more likely that they put her gloves there as a memento of hers because that is all that is left of her. people do that so often in stories. Giving the survivors something that belonged to the dead to remember them by. I find it weird how everyone thinks that her gloves on the table mean that she is alive. If anything it confirms her death even more. Or they would have shown her sitting at Biggs side or something. Putting her gloves on Biggs table only makes sense if she is dead.

Besides it would be so ridiculous if literally every character who dies in the game (and in the original) would just be alive again by the end of Part 1. Where is the stakes and emotional weight in that ? Resurrecting Barret made sense of course and Biggs did not have that much of a death scene really so that can be excused. But Jessies death was probably the most emotional scene in the whole game, why would you take that away again ? If the end of this game would really just bring every dead character back (Zack, Wedge, Jessie, Biggs) and the only character that actually stays dead is President Shinra it would be a betrayal of the stakes, sacrifices and emotional journey of the characters. It would make the game so hollow and the losses so irrelevant. Barret, Zack and Biggs alive is more then enough. Maybe already too much.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Cloudbahamut

[KiritoSWX]

25 minutes ago, Cloudbahamut said:

yeah people keep pointing out Jessies gloves on the table. But why does this mean she is alive ? Actually it is the opposite. If she were alive why would she leave her gloves on the table next to Biggs ? It is far more likely that they put her gloves there as a memento of hers because that is all that is left of her. people do that so often in stories. Giving the survivors something that belonged to the dead to remember them by. I find it weird how everyone thinks that her gloves on the table mean that she is alive. If anything it confirms her death even more. Or they would have shown her sitting at Biggs side or something. Putting her gloves on Biggs table only makes sense if she is dead.

 

I should have been more concrete in my explanation,i understand you're point and i think you're right about the momento thing , i just didn't see someone write this on this post and want to point that was something about Jessie we don't really know for sure (the whisper was at Jessie too like Biggs). But the other mean by pointing that glove is the "person" who save Biggs in the plate before the collapse is not a nobody, he reach Jessie who was high in the plate, retrieve his "glove", Biggs and escape like nothing, and god don't say it the whisper, i will really drop about the story if that was that thing who save Biggs.

 

Edit: yeah.. someone already point the glove, you're right , i read too fast and skip some post "_"

Edited April 22, 2020 by KiritoSWX

[Laburnski]

8 minutes ago, Cloudbahamut said:

yeah people keep pointing out Jessies gloves on the table. But why does this mean she is alive ? Actually it is the opposite. If she were alive why would she leave her gloves on the table next to Biggs ? It is far more likely that they put her gloves there as a memento of hers because that is all that is left of her. people do that so often in stories. Giving the survivors something that belonged to the dead to remember them by. I find it weird how everyone thinks that her gloves on the table mean that she is alive. If anything it confirms her death even more. Or they would have shown her sitting at Biggs side or something. Putting her gloves on Biggs table only makes sense if she is dead.

Honestly imo as long we don't see actual bodies it's more likely that Jessie and even wedge still alive. Either leaving behind Biggs to have revenge against shinra alone because her parents dies from that falling plate sector ( Her parents was on that plate right? Pls correct me if I'm wrong ), or heck at this point maybe someone from Turk/Shinra co save her, she has amnesia and she become a new recruit for Turk ? Wedge probably just fall on a big dumpster and saved again

[Cloudbahamut]

10 minutes ago, KiritoSWX said:

 

I should have been more concrete in my explanation,i understand you're point and i think you're right about the momento thing , i just didn't see someone write this on this post and want to point that was something about Jessie we don't really know for sure (the whisper was at Jessie too like Biggs). But the other mean by pointing that glove is the "person" who save Biggs in the plate before the collapse is not a nobody, he reach Jessie who was high in the plate, retrieve his "glove", Biggs and escape like nothing, and god don't say it the whisper, i will really drop about the story if that was that thing who save Biggs.

People also misunderstand the Whisper thing. Everything the Whispers did in this game still happened. Defeating them did not mean they were never there. They just don't exist from this point onward anymore and can't enforce the flow of history any longer. But everything they have done so far still happened. So they still injured Jessie in Sector 7 and still detonated her grenade too soon, killing her. That still happened. As for Biggs - we have yet to see how and why he survived. Zack saving him seems to be a popular theory. Could be. Maybe Zack sacrificed himself to get Biggs out in time which would explain why Zack is not around in the present and he was the one who retrieved Jessies gloves and gave them to Biggs before he got out.

One thing I am certain of however is that the Whispers most definitely did not save Biggs. They wanted him dead because thats how it was supposed to be in the original story. So they definitely didn't save him.

 

6 minutes ago, Laburnski said:

Honestly imo as long we don't see actual bodies it's more likely that Jessie and even wedge still alive. Either leaving behind Biggs to have revenge against shinra alone because her parents dies from that falling plate sector ( Her parents was on that plate right? Pls correct me if I'm wrong ), or heck at this point maybe someone from Turk/Shinra co save her, she has amnesia and she become a new recruit for Turk ? Wedge probably just fall on a big dumpster and saved again

Sorry but no. Just no.

I am just gonna quote myself from above to explain why this would be absolutely terrible, shitty writing:

 

 

32 minutes ago, Cloudbahamut said:

Besides it would be so ridiculous if literally every character who dies in the game (and in the original) would just be alive again by the end of Part 1. Where is the stakes and emotional weight in that ? Resurrecting Barret made sense of course and Biggs did not have that much of a death scene really so that can be excused. But Jessies death was probably the most emotional scene in the whole game, why would you take that away again ? If the end of this game would really just bring every dead character back (Zack, Wedge, Jessie, Biggs) and the only character that actually stays dead is President Shinra it would be a betrayal of the stakes, sacrifices and emotional journey of the characters. It would make the game so hollow and the losses so irrelevant. Barret, Zack and Biggs alive is more then enough. Maybe already too much.

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Cloudbahamut

[Garret02]

On 4/19/2020 at 6:07 PM, Cloudbahamut said:

Yeah but you also said "This does not belong in a FF VII game" and obviously the original writer of FF VII should definitely know what belongs in FF VII seeing as he actually wrote it.

Sakaguchi contributed to the original story, coming up with the premise and plot outline (much like Nojima did with XV) but the actual game was written by Kitase (who also directed the original) and Nojima. Sakaguchi was producer in pretty much the same role that Kitase now had with the Remake.

But I think the original writer of FF VII (Nojima) and the original director (Kitase) plus the main designer of the original (Nomura) really should be the best possible creative team to take on FF VII.

No actually, the original writers are more often than not the worst people to redo the original work. Why? Because they themselves don't know why it became beloved. Because "it's never good enough". Better is an enemy of good. They want to change things they were on the edge when writing original. They saw reception to the original and saw all the comments ("Aeris, oh noes ;(") and want to pander to the fans. And there is also a possibility that the original work was an accident and now that it become unexpectedly big they want to add all that other crap that usually make their stories shit. IMO the ONLY good thing in the FF7 universe is the original FF7. All the extended universe (Advent Children, Crisis Core etc.) is garbage that shits on the original, changing and retconning its original ideas, characters and themes.

 

Arguments like "it's original writer, so he knows better" aren't good because each title should stand on its own merit. And FF7 Remake doesn't have much beside an enormous legacy. I was really enjoying the game, doing my best to ignore those whispers and crap. Unfortunately, chapter 18 happened which made it impossible to ignore. I, like many other people, was hyped for a remake, not a reboot. Why? Because I knew they would screw things up. Because they just can't help it and because IMO the last ok FF in terms of story was 9 and that was a lifetime ago. And they did screw things up, go figure.

 

Personally I'm in favour of alternate timelines theory. So the Zack thing at the end is pure fan service. He probably won't be incorporated into main storyline (I mean gameplay wise he would be identical to Cloud and they put a lot of work to make each character unique). Or maybe we will get to control him in his own timeline when Cloud is still comatose. I was always a fan of a theory that when Zack died part of him connected to Cloud instead of lifestream and that's why Cloud woke up and can fight like Zack (yeah, I know he physically could fight like that and he saw Zack do lots of battles but that's not enough in my book). Original FF7 timeline Sephiroth came to remake timeline (yes, we have two Sephiroths) to strengthen Cloud so he'll be able to protect Aeris from this timeline Sephiroth. Because that was actually a deciding factor for why he failed in bringing the meteor on the planet. Now with the whispers dead, writers have a blank card. They can do whatever. Oh, people liked Biggs, Wedge, Jessie and Aeris? Let's not kill them.

 

Oh, one thing that I really disliked even before chapter 18? The damage or rather lack thereof after plate drop. Everything should be squished under the plate. I mean, there was a whole city on top. So the plate itself also must've been like at least 50 meters high. The slums should've been completely submerged but they looked relatively unharmed. Shit, there were even survivors that didn't manage to leave the sector on time. Pretty weak.

[Cloudbahamut]

9 hours ago, Garret02 said:

No actually, the original writers are more often than not the worst people to redo the original work. Why? Because they themselves don't know why it became beloved. Because "it's never good enough". Better is an enemy of good. They want to change things they were on the edge when writing original. They saw reception to the original and saw all the comments ("Aeris, oh noes ;(") and want to pander to the fans. And there is also a possibility that the original work was an accident and now that it become unexpectedly big they want to add all that other crap that usually make their stories shit. IMO the ONLY good thing in the FF7 universe is the original FF7. All the extended universe (Advent Children, Crisis Core etc.) is garbage that shits on the original, changing and retconning its original ideas, characters and themes.

 

Arguments like "it's original writer, so he knows better" aren't good because each title should stand on its own merit. And FF7 Remake doesn't have much beside an enormous legacy. I was really enjoying the game, doing my best to ignore those whispers and crap. Unfortunately, chapter 18 happened which made it impossible to ignore. I, like many other people, was hyped for a remake, not a reboot. Why? Because I knew they would screw things up. Because they just can't help it and because IMO the last ok FF in terms of story was 9 and that was a lifetime ago. And they did screw things up, go figure.

 

Personally I'm in favour of alternate timelines theory. So the Zack thing at the end is pure fan service. He probably won't be incorporated into main storyline (I mean gameplay wise he would be identical to Cloud and they put a lot of work to make each character unique). Or maybe we will get to control him in his own timeline when Cloud is still comatose. I was always a fan of a theory that when Zack died part of him connected to Cloud instead of lifestream and that's why Cloud woke up and can fight like Zack (yeah, I know he physically could fight like that and he saw Zack do lots of battles but that's not enough in my book). Original FF7 timeline Sephiroth came to remake timeline (yes, we have two Sephiroths) to strengthen Cloud so he'll be able to protect Aeris from this timeline Sephiroth. Because that was actually a deciding factor for why he failed in bringing the meteor on the planet. Now with the whispers dead, writers have a blank card. They can do whatever. Oh, people liked Biggs, Wedge, Jessie and Aeris? Let's not kill them.

 

Oh, one thing that I really disliked even before chapter 18? The damage or rather lack thereof after plate drop. Everything should be squished under the plate. I mean, there was a whole city on top. So the plate itself also must've been like at least 50 meters high. The slums should've been completely submerged but they looked relatively unharmed. Shit, there were even survivors that didn't manage to leave the sector on time. Pretty weak.

I am sorry I disagree very very hard with nearly all of this. Advent Children was awesome and Crisis Core is one of the most beloved Games out there (And made Zack one of the biggest fan favorites). Also no there are no two Sephiroths at the same time in Remake. That time travel bullshit is one thing I vehemently refuse. IMO the future Sephiroth sent his knowledge through the lifestream to his past self to change his own fate (His defeat), resulting in past Sephiroth doing things differently (sending clones to Midgar, appearing to Cloud, showing him the future etc.) which in turn prompted Fate aka the Whispers to intervene. But like another user so wonderfully said we don't have a time travelling Sephiroth here like he is some goddamn Terminator.

As for why Cloud can fight like Zack - he is dosed with Mako and Jenova cells (Sephiroths cells even). That alone is enough to make him pretty damn powerful. And don't forget that Cloud was a trained soldier and was in the military for years. And even before the experiments he was able to lift up Sephiroth after being stabbed by him and throw him in the Lifestream. Even Zack stood no chance against Sephiroth but Cloud defeated him even without Mako or Jenova cells. Sephiroth himself was stunned by this saying "Impossible" when Cloud didn't go down like Zack. There was always a hidden strength in Cloud which had nothing to do with Mako or Jenova. But you add those two elements to that strength and you get a pretty badass powerful warrior.

And you make the mistake to assume just because the writers now CAN change the story (with the Whispers gone) they will change it. But you are missing the point. The point was never to change the story into something else completely. The point was that from now on nobody knows whats going to happen. It can follow the original story or it cannot. It could be faithful to some parts of the original and change others. We simply don't know. And that was the point. To break the chains that would enslave the writers to the original and create a game where all fans (old and new) no longer know what will happen. Where everyone goes in fresh.

Personally I am absolutely certain that the next games will follow the story of the original. The big moments from the original will all be in there.Like they were all there in this game. Details will change, circumstances might change. some things will be bigger and longer and there will be new stuff (just like in this one) but it will not be a completely different story now. The writers are not stupid. They know that people have waited for a long time for a Remake of this game and that they want to see all the big, iconic moments of the original. They would never put all those years of work into a Remake of FF VII and then turn it into a completely different game that has nothing to do with the original anymore. But they want to make it fresh and surprising for old and new fans alike. Which is really what this is all about.

But I am absolutely certain that we will get all the iconic stuff from the original in the next games - the hunt for Sephiroth, Temple of the Ancients, the flashback sequence, Meteor, Rise of the Weapons, Sapphire and Diamond Weapon attacks, Black Materia, Clouds mako sickness, Cloud and Tifa in the Lifestream, Rocket into space, Battle against Hojo, Battle against Sephiroth at North Crater and yes indeed Aeriths death. Details might change, circumstances might change, things will be added and some other things shortened or removed and things might play out a bit differently or at different times or even different locations but these are still the iconic cornerstones of what makes it FF VII and I am certain they will not change that. This will still be Final Fantasy VII not FF VII-2.

Of course I might be wrong and if I am I will stand corrected and all the haters can tell me "I told you so" but until then I will firmly believe this.


With one thing I do agree though (and already wrote about it above): Bringing literally every character back from the dead (Zack, Aerith, Jessie, Wedge, Biggs and Barret so far) who either died in the original or Remake at some point is absolutely ridiculous and makes the story very hollow and cheap and is a betrayal of the emotional journey for both the characters and players. Which is why I am hoping that Jessie and Wedge are still dead and that Aerith WILL die (Her death is the single most iconic and important scene of the game. It literally drives the story). Zack being alive again is a nice twist and we will have to see how they deal with that. Same as with BIggs. But who knows, maybe they simply die later on at a different point in the story. As I said before I don't think that their survival is gonna drastically change the whole whole story into a completely new game now. At the end the party that we know from the original still leaves Midgar and goes after Sephiroth while Rufus takes control of Shinra. The details and circumstances how we got there are different and we have some changes now but at the core this is still absolutely the story of Final Fantasy VII by the end of the game and I am certain it wll stay that way.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Cloudbahamut

[Garret02]

10 hours ago, Cloudbahamut said:

I am sorry I disagree very very hard with nearly all of this. Advent Children was awesome and Crisis Core is one of the most beloved Games out there (And made Zack one of the biggest fan favorites). Also no there are no two Sephiroths at the same time in Remake. That time travel bullshit is one thing I vehemently refuse. IMO the future Sephiroth sent his knowledge through the lifestream to his past self to change his own fate (His defeat), resulting in past Sephiroth doing things differently (sending clones to Midgar, appearing to Cloud, showing him the future etc.) which in turn prompted Fate aka the Whispers to intervene. But like another user so wonderfully said we don't have a time travelling Sephiroth here like he is some goddamn Terminator.

As for why Cloud can fight like Zack - he is dosed with Mako and Jenova cells (Sephiroths cells even). That alone is enough to make him pretty damn powerful. And don't forget that Cloud was a trained soldier and was in the military for years. And even before the experiments he was able to lift up Sephiroth after being stabbed by him and throw him in the Lifestream. Even Zack stood no chance against Sephiroth but Cloud defeated him even without Mako or Jenova cells. Sephiroth himself was stunned by this saying "Impossible" when Cloud didn't go down like Zack. There was always a hidden strength in Cloud which had nothing to do with Mako or Jenova. But you add those two elements to that strength and you get a pretty badass powerful warrior.

And you make the mistake to assume just because the writers now CAN change the story (with the Whispers gone) they will change it. But you are missing the point. The point was never to change the story into something else completely. The point was that from now on nobody knows whats going to happen. It can follow the original story or it cannot. It could be faithful to some parts of the original and change others. We simply don't know. And that was the point. To break the chains that would enslave the writers to the original and create a game where all fans (old and new) no longer know what will happen. Where everyone goes in fresh.

Personally I am absolutely certain that the next games will follow the story of the original. The big moments from the original will all be in there.Like they were all there in this game. Details will change, circumstances might change. some things will be bigger and longer and there will be new stuff (just like in this one) but it will not be a completely different story now. The writers are not stupid. They know that people have waited for a long time for a Remake of this game and that they want to see all the big, iconic moments of the original. They would never put all those years of work into a Remake of FF VII and then turn it into a completely different game that has nothing to do with the original anymore. But they want to make it fresh and surprising for old and new fans alike. Which is really what this is all about.

But I am absolutely certain that we will get all the iconic stuff from the original in the next games - the hunt for Sephiroth, Temple of the Ancients, the flashback sequence, Meteor, Rise of the Weapons, Sapphire and Diamond Weapon attacks, Black Materia, Clouds mako sickness, Cloud and Tifa in the Lifestream, Rocket into space, Battle against Hojo, Battle against Sephiroth at North Crater and yes indeed Aeriths death. Details might change, circumstances might change, things will be added and some other things shortened or removed and things might play out a bit differently or at different times or even different locations but these are still the iconic cornerstones of what makes it FF VII and I am certain they will not change that. This will still be Final Fantasy VII not FF VII-2.

Of course I might be wrong and if I am I will stand corrected and all the haters can tell me "I told you so" but until then I will firmly believe this.


With one thing I do agree though (and already wrote about it above): Bringing literally every character back from the dead (Zack, Aerith, Jessie, Wedge, Biggs and Barret so far) who either died in the original or Remake at some point is absolutely ridiculous and makes the story very hollow and cheap and is a betrayal of the emotional journey for both the characters and players. Which is why I am hoping that Jessie and Wedge are still dead and that Aerith WILL die (Her death is the single most iconic and important scene of the game. It literally drives the story). Zack being alive again is a nice twist and we will have to see how they deal with that. Same as with BIggs. But who knows, maybe they simply die later on at a different point in the story. As I said before I don't think that their survival is gonna drastically change the whole whole story into a completely new game now. At the end the party that we know from the original still leaves Midgar and goes after Sephiroth while Rufus takes control of Shinra. The details and circumstances how we got there are different and we have some changes now but at the core this is still absolutely the story of Final Fantasy VII by the end of the game and I am certain it wll stay that way.

Well, we can agree to disagree on Advent Children and Crisis Core. The fact still stands that they retcon stuff. If my memory doesn't fail me, at the end of original FF7 Midgar is desolate with plants growin over it. AC changes it. Personally I can't find a single good thing about it beside visuals but whatever. Crisis Core is a decent game in itself but introduces new characters that mostly undermine what Sephiroth was. Also Cissnei, where is Cissnei in Remake? If you're going to introduce new characters at least keep them, especially cute ones.

 

Yes, I know why Cloud is physically capable of those feats. I question why he knows how to do them. Being able to lift 300kg doesn't automatically make you a good fighter. Even if you're good at imitating you still need at least some training. And he had only military training, not SOLDIER training, not even 3rd class. He was a grunt. Grunts don't get sword and jump 3 stories high training. Grunts get a gun and are cannon fodder. And the timing of his waking up is too perfect to be a mere coincidence. And notice that in the Remake he didn't wake up like in a normal timeline. That's because he needs Zack energy to fight off mako poisoning. And yes, while Cloud had some animelike "hidden potential" saying he defeated Sephiroth is pushing it a bit. He stealth stabbed him in the back. The only dope thing he did was lift Sephiroth (heavily injured mind you) by the sword.

 

Time travel is bullshit, period. However single timeline is the worst version of time travel because it has the most loopholes. If we go with your version then heavy changes to the story are guaranteed. Why? Because Zack is alive. That alone is super heavy. You can't have two super soldiers who have it in for Sephiroth and don't have heavy changes in the story. Also, if OG Sephiroth sent his knowledge back, then you are guaranteed that Aeris will live. Because that was what ultimately caused his failure. Now Sephiroth knows that he should under no circumstances kill her so he won't especially since whispers are dead. Two Spehiroths make more sense if we want to keep the storyline relatively unchanged. Now ok, I didn't exactly mean there are physically two Sephiroths in Remake. The OG Sephiroth desn't have control of the clones. He's basically in Clouds mind. First appearing after bombing mission and that's what caused whispers to appear, because he slowed down Cloud so Aeris would go on her business and back to her house. That started the butterfly effect of all the minor changes. And he keeps poking Cloud in the head to make him used to mind attacks so he's able to save Aeris later on. But time travel is horrible anyway (only game with time travel that doesn't break anything I can think of is Chrono Trigger) so it can go either way.

[Cloudbahamut]

7 minutes ago, Garret02 said:

Well, we can agree to disagree on Advent Children and Crisis Core. The fact still stands that they retcon stuff. If my memory doesn't fail me, at the end of original FF7 Midgar is desolate with plants growin over it. AC changes it. Personally I can't find a single good thing about it beside visuals but whatever. Crisis Core is a decent game in itself but introduces new characters that mostly undermine what Sephiroth was. Also Cissnei, where is Cissnei in Remake? If you're going to introduce new characters at least keep them, especially cute ones.

 

Yes, I know why Cloud is physically capable of those feats. I question why he knows how to do them. Being able to lift 300kg doesn't automatically make you a good fighter. Even if you're good at imitating you still need at least some training. And he had only military training, not SOLDIER training, not even 3rd class. He was a grunt. Grunts don't get sword and jump 3 stories high training. Grunts get a gun and are cannon fodder. And the timing of his waking up is too perfect to be a mere coincidence. And notice that in the Remake he didn't wake up like in a normal timeline. That's because he needs Zack energy to fight off mako poisoning. And yes, while Cloud had some animelike "hidden potential" saying he defeated Sephiroth is pushing it a bit. He stealth stabbed him in the back. The only dope thing he did was lift Sephiroth (heavily injured mind you) by the sword.

 

Time travel is bullshit, period. However single timeline is the worst version of time travel because it has the most loopholes. If we go with your version then heavy changes to the story are guaranteed. Why? Because Zack is alive. That alone is super heavy. You can't have two super soldiers who have it in for Sephiroth and don't have heavy changes in the story. Also, if OG Sephiroth sent his knowledge back, then you are guaranteed that Aeris will live. Because that was what ultimately caused his failure. Now Sephiroth knows that he should under no circumstances kill her so he won't especially since whispers are dead. Two Spehiroths make more sense if we want to keep the storyline relatively unchanged. Now ok, I didn't exactly mean there are physically two Sephiroths in Remake. The OG Sephiroth desn't have control of the clones. He's basically in Clouds mind. First appearing after bombing mission and that's what caused whispers to appear, because he slowed down Cloud so Aeris would go on her business and back to her house. That started the butterfly effect of all the minor changes. And he keeps poking Cloud in the head to make him used to mind attacks so he's able to save Aeris later on. But time travel is horrible anyway (only game with time travel that doesn't break anything I can think of is Chrono Trigger) so it can go either way.

Actually no, the end of FF VII that shows Red XIII and his kids overlooking a desolate and grown over Midgar takes place 200 years after FF VII and AC. Red is basically the only main character still alive at that point.

I am not so sure that Sephiroth would want Aerith to live. If he had not killed her, Holy would have stopped Meteor. So if she survives he loses as well. Thats why he killed her in the first place. He rather needs to find a way to prevent Aerith from summoning Holy altogether if he wants to win. Also remember that in the original it was stated that Aerith/Holy was unable to destroy Meteor as long as Sephiroth was alive. Cloud and the others needed to defeat him in order for Aerith/Lifestream to do their thing. Bottom line - if Sephiroth wins the battle at the North Crater then it will be irrelevant wether Aerith is alive or dead. But if she is alive then Holy would stop Meteor before Sephiroth can kill them at North Crater. I imagine that Sephiroth will try to kill Aerith as soon as he gets the Black materia to prevent her from summoning Holy at all.

Zack being alive does not necessarily change the story. Because we only know that he survived that particular battle five years ago. And that he most definitely is not with the party when they leave Midgar to hunt Sephiroth. Some believe it was Zack who saved Biggs at the pillar. Maybe Zack sacrificed himself there to save Biggs. of course if Zack survived then the question remains why Cloud still assumed that Cloud/Zack hybrid personality and wields the Buster sword. This the next games will have to answer but as I said I am extremely certain that the next games will give us all the anticipated, iconic big moments from the original because this is still a FF VII Remake. It will not be an entirely different "What if" story now but be pretty much what the first game was with new twists and additions but all the major iconic moments there.

And I stand by what I said - there is only one Sephiroth in the Remake who simply has the knowledge of future events now who deliberately changed some things. He appears to Cloud in his mind, he uses the clones as vessels, he attacks Shinra HQ (like he did in the original, only this time using the clones as vessel not Jenova), kills the president and lures the characters into the Whispers realm, then drags Clouds mind to the Edge of Creation. All the same Sephiroth. The one in the Lifestream. There is no other. And I won't change my mind on that until Square officially says otherwise.

[Elvick_]

On 2020-04-19 at 6:49 AM, Cloudbahamut said:

Well Jessie is definitely dead. She literally died right in front of Cloud and Tifa. And the Whispers were not anywhere near that. And her death was a very important scene particularly with the buildup towards it. Biggs never clearly died onscreen. if you rewatch the scene with Biggs he was never clearly killed like Jessie was. He just sat there and stopped moving. He could have easily just lost his consciousness. When Barret later asked Cloud about it, Cloud never told him Biggs had died, only that he had been in "pretty bad shape".
 

lol, Biggs was dead dude. The "pretty bad shape" was in response to both Jessie AND Biggs. The avoided referring to them as dead, yet everyone knew they were dead. It's just a crap plothole to make stupid changes for the sake of it.

[Cloudbahamut]

1 hour ago, Elvick_ said:

lol, Biggs was dead dude. The "pretty bad shape" was in response to both Jessie AND Biggs. The avoided referring to them as dead, yet everyone knew they were dead. It's just a crap plothole to make stupid changes for the sake of it.

Why are you talking to me in this condescending tone ? If you want to talk to me then do it nicely.

[Elvick_]

14 hours ago, Cloudbahamut said:

Why are you talking to me in this condescending tone ? If you want to talk to me then do it nicely.

It's text. There is no tone. Practice what you preach bud. "Why are you being naughty, be nice or I won't talk to you." is pretty condescending to me. If you didn't intend it that way then that just proves my point. If you did, then lol at the hypocrisy. Either way bye.

[TheLakota]

23 hours ago, Elvick_ said:

It's text. There is no tone.

 

Famous last words. /totally not sarcastic given my words in text format lack tone. 

 

On topic, loved everything about the game (yes, even the Whispers). I'm fairly confident future entries will expand upon this concept.

[ShadowReplicant]

On 4/22/2020 at 10:24 PM, KiritoSWX said:

 Just to say, about Jessie, she can be alive , when you see the table before Biggs in bed, the glove belong to Jessie, not Biggs

 

I think it's safe to say that Jessie is dead. When you read the in-game chapter log, it says "A seriously injured Biggs urges Cloud to help his friends" and later: "But just as they are about to reach the top, however, they lose Jessie right before their eyes." It's implied that Biggs lost consciousness, he still could've survived in the rubble. Jessie's gloves and headband just confirm that whoever rescued Biggs also found her body.