TLOU 2 spoilers galore and also Ghost of Tsushima delayed

[EstebanFox]

10 hours ago, talespagni said:

 

First off, I agree with everything you said, except with the last word.

 

There is a term on marketing called "residual effect".

 

It means that your product/service will sell well according to projections, mostly due the hype train being out of control and the "big media" being pro or con about X issue. In this case, they're clearly pro-TLOU 2.

 

However, over time, the damage done in public perception, plus the result of actual user reviews and word of mouth advertising (greatly affected through the social media nowadays) is so, but so negative, that over time your sales will suffer.

 

Most importantly, other indicators (in lack of a better word) will greatly suffer. For example, your stock values, your next product in line, etc.

 

I'll give you an example: Star Wars latest trilogy.

 

The Force Awakens = 2,1 bi

The Last Jedi = 1,3 bi

The Rise of Skywalker = 1,1 bi

 

The target audience, people who buy multiple tickets to watch the movie in the cinemas, plus lots of assorted products (dvds, blu-rays, toys, games, etc) stopped in the middle of the proccess here. And the last filme was beaten to death critically and had even less revenue. Plus whatever else I said above.

 

Another example: Star Wars Battlefront 2 affecting Battlefield 5, which in turn affected EA stocks.

 

Other examples: Ghostbusters, Ocean's 8, Charlie's Angels, Men in Black International, Birds of Prey, Terminator: Dark Fate.

forgive my bleak view on things but I just see the creative people behind these properties as blatant political agents who don't care about public perception, the franchise's financial health and much less, the fans. I don't see public perception making much of a difference. Usually the key people that make a property good end up leaving, exiled, cancelled and the ones who remain use the product for political preaching and indoctrination. The property gets destroy and they move on to the next thing. That's the cycle of life and that's without mentioning the ridiculous support they get from the media. 

 

So by the time stocks fall and Sony feels it, they are already working on butchering something else, their resume is bigger and filled with nice-looking words that sound good to any HR idiot who just, doesn't have a clue. I said it's "inconsequential" because the result of this "mess" is: TLOU franchise broken (even though I think it will still have ok sells because most people don't have a clue), we won't get to see a proper sequel for a long time, Druckmann laughing his ass off, going to the bank while the media sucks his you know what.

[AJ_Radio]

14 hours ago, Charizarzar said:

I like Uncharted but I think the main series ended pretty well, and 4 games is a good run. There’s lots of movies/shows and arguably game series that dragged on for too long and are remembered negatively for it, so it’s better for it to end on a high. Maybe Nolan North wouldn’t want to keep playing the same character again anyway.

 

Someone needs to pull the plug on The Simpsons, South Park and Saturday Night Live before it's too late.

[Fubuki]

13 hours ago, Golem25 said:

How utterly disgusting. Sony's leadership, who are complicit in this nonsense and the censorship of Japanese games earlier, needs to be purged by HR. Ideally, we'd have some good old conservative Japanese execs stepping in.

Ever since Soyny moved to California, I knew this shit was coming. As someone who lives in Los Angeles, there are tons of liberals and woke people here. The #MeToo Movement has "inspired" Soyny to start censoring anime games. Exact reasons why I skipped out on Senran Kagura Burst Renewal. Now they are making woke games. Starting with LOU 2. It's cringe honestly! I skipped on Persona 5 Royal because the game got censored due to Woke NPCs on Resetera. I'm starting to worry for Japan. Japan loves America but I fear America's political correctness culture will destroy Japanese culture. I've said it before and I'll say it again, SJW culture is a cancer that spreads into EVERYTHING.

Thank god I have a Nintendo Switch

[Darling Baphomet]

4 minutes ago, The Titan said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, SJW culture is a cancer that spreads into EVERYTHING.

 

Yeah, that's because Sony has rightly realized that angry men on the internet are a loud but insignificant demographic not worth pandering to, and are taking their games to audiences that actually pay for them. It's honestly extremely validating. For years, gamers would say, "just make your own games!" whenever feminist or LGBT concerns came up, and now here we are - making our own games. That's progress, buddy.

[Fubuki]

33 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

Yeah, that's because Sony has rightly realized that angry men on the internet are a loud but insignificant demographic not worth pandering to, and are taking their games to audiences that actually pay for them. It's honestly extremely validating. For years, gamers would say, "just make your own games!" whenever feminist or LGBT concerns came up, and now here we are - making our own games. That's progress, buddy.

Be careful not to choke on them blue pills, buddy. 

[Darling Baphomet]

1 minute ago, The Titan said:

Be careful not to choke on them blue pills, buddy. 

Thank you, I will. Enjoy not being able to play games because they feature demographics that offend you. ?

[wackt1]

4 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

Thank you, I will. Enjoy not being able to play games because they feature demographics that offend you. ?

 

 

46 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

Yeah, that's because Sony has rightly realized that angry men on the internet are a loud but insignificant demographic not worth pandering to, and are taking their games to audiences that actually pay for them. It's honestly extremely validating. For years, gamers would say, "just make your own games!" whenever feminist or LGBT concerns came up, and now here we are - making our own games. That's progress, buddy.

You don't wanna challenge neil Dunkman's spot as  anita sarkeesian's  champion

[MCH-MONOH7DRAT3]

 

Spoiler

Most players wouldn't bother with WONDERWOMAN if JOEL and ELLIE didn't got garbage treatment , in first game even Canibals group is justified. Turning J&E  to some sort of villains is ridiculous 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by MCH-MONOH7DRAT3

[Darling Baphomet]

1 minute ago, MCH-MONOH7DRAT3 said:

 

  Hide contents

Most players wouldn't bother with WONDERWOMAN if JOEL and ELLIE didn't got garbage treatment , in first game even Canibals group is justified. Turning J&E  to some sort of villains is ridiculous 

 

 

Spoiler

Joel is absolutely a villain. Did people miss out on the ending of The Last of Us, where he slaughtered an entire hospital full of people dedicated to curing all of humanity because he projected his dead daughter onto Ellie? The Last of Us has always been a story about terrible things happening to terrible people. Joel isn't exempt from that. He was never anything close to a hero - and that's one reason why The Last of Us was such a powerful narrative. It showed a mass murderer not just being human, but being vulnerable, and learning to love again.

 

[BloodyRutz]

On 2. 5. 2020 at 11:32 AM, Golem25 said:

I'm not sure what the bigger cringe is right now; the leaks or the people defending Naughty Dog.

 

EDIT;

 

this sounded too harsh. I prefer to say, people defending Naughty Dog over these story decisions specifically. They are unequivocally bad and I will elaborate upon this statement in a new post.

 

21 hours ago, Golem25 said:

I've had another think about the whole thing, and I believe this leak makes me appreciate the first game more - in hindsight. I didn't like it, actually, and I still think it's meh at best, but that's because I am a sour, critical weeb.

 

TLOU was so universally praised because it had universal appeal; a good narrative for people who want a good story, a strong female character (an actually good one!) for people who wanted that, and a gruff male protag for the people who wanted one. Perfect, everyone is being catered to without stepping on anyone's toes; Ellie was well received by people who don't usually care about female representation for the way in which she was presented. She was portrayed as a 14 year old girl in her gameplay segments, not as an unstoppable Navy SEAL.

 

But then TLOU2 tosses it all out for.... uhm, for what, Druckmann? Not for fun, because that's a naughty word according to you.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Joel gets his brains bashed in for being a CIS white male

Ellie gets her shit kicked in

Her girlfriend gets her shit kicked in

 

And all this by a 'female' that looks like it repurposes the body model of a male NPC. Who are they trying to please? If I was transgender, or, well, tricked into thinking I was actually female, I'd be horrified by this negative portrayal

 

How utterly disgusting. Sony's leadership, who are complicit in this nonsense and the censorship of Japanese games earlier, needs to be purged by HR. Ideally, we'd have some good old conservative Japanese execs stepping in.

 

Thank you for this. I still won't spoil the game for me but I can understand the emotions around it better putting it like that.

 

21 hours ago, MCH-MONOH7DRAT3 said:

 

I would quote you if i had you in mind , now buzz off

 

"Now buzz off"? Very nice. See ya, let's not waste more time.

[Carol]

14 hours ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

  Hide contents

Joel is absolutely a villain. Did people miss out on the ending of The Last of Us, where he slaughtered an entire hospital full of people dedicated to curing all of humanity because he projected his dead daughter onto Ellie? The Last of Us has always been a story about terrible things happening to terrible people. Joel isn't exempt from that. He was never anything close to a hero - and that's one reason why The Last of Us was such a powerful narrative. It showed a mass murderer not just being human, but being vulnerable, and learning to love again.

 

It’s exactly because Joel is such a human, relatable character that we, fans, like him so much.

TLOU fans aren’t dumb. We all know that in that cruel world, there are no heroes and that you probably won’t survive until you’re old, even if you’re tough. We all know that, eventually, your actions will find you and you will face the consequences of everything you’ve done. It’s exactly because we, fans, aren’t dumb that I can’t understand why Naughty Dog chose to show us the cruel, disgusting fates of our beloved characters. Maybe they just decided to use the name “The Last of Us” to push someone’s agenda?

Also, that Joel ”slaughtered an entire hospital full of people dedicated to curing all of humanity” I can tell you this simply isn’t true. Why? Because this is player-determined. Sure, you can choose to kill everyone there, if you have enough ammunition and health, but I can tell you that I can go through all of the hospital without killing almost anyone, even on higher difficulties. Because, you know, there’s something called stealth.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Carol

[Golem25]

Funny cover meme

 

Spoiler

 

[Solid-Fisch]

40 minutes ago, Golem25 said:

Funny cover meme

 

  Hide contents

 

I just love this ?

[LucienNL]

Seems like a great game for @WorldHobo and @Romer819 

Edited May 3, 2020 by LucienNL

[PooPooBlast]

3 hours ago, Golem25 said:

Funny cover meme

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Best one yet ??

 

Spoiler

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by PooPooBlast

[Darling Baphomet]

On 5/2/2020 at 2:07 AM, Golem25 said:

TLOU was so universally praised because it had universal appeal; a good narrative for people who want a good story, a strong female character (an actually good one!) for people who wanted that, and a gruff male protag for the people who wanted one.

  Reveal hidden contents

Joel gets his brains bashed in for being a CIS white male

Ellie gets her shit kicked in

Her girlfriend gets her shit kicked in

 

And all this by a 'female' that looks like it repurposes the body model of a male NPC. Who are they trying to please? If I was transgender, or, well, tricked into thinking I was actually female, I'd be horrified by this negative portrayal

 

How utterly disgusting. Sony's leadership, who are complicit in this nonsense and the censorship of Japanese games earlier, needs to be purged by HR. Ideally, we'd have some good old conservative Japanese execs stepping in.

 

People complained about TLoU and Ellie being gay in the first game as well. Either way, this response is exactly why we need more flamboyant, challenging representation - by challenging the audience, you change what they deem acceptable. For instance, most people who complained about Borderlands 2's writing (and I admit, it was bad) were probably already homophobic, but with how outrageous Borderlands 2 was, the argument wasn't, "gay people existing at all is bad!" - it rather came down to "but why do we have to KNOW they're gay? Can't they just be quietly gay?"

 

One way or another, this kind of representation gets results, even if that result is making otherwise bigoted people wax nostalgic for the feminist / LGBT / whatever representation that they found a bit less offensive.

 

6 hours ago, Carol said:

 

Also, that Joel ”slaughtered an entire hospital full of people dedicated to curing all of humanity” I can’t tell you this simply isn’t true. Why? Because this is player-determined. Sure, you can choose to kill everyone there, if you have enough ammunition and health, but I can tell you that I can go through all of the hospital without killing almost anyone, even on higher difficulties. Because, you know, there’s something called stealth.

 

Well, I mean, by that logic, the stealth approach is just as "not true" as the murder approach. Either way, Joel killed at least a few to dozens of people and delayed the cure by god knows how long.

 

 

 

[panikooooos]

18 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

People complained about TLoU and Ellie being gay in the first game as well. Either way, this response is exactly why we need more flamboyant, challenging representation - by challenging the audience, you change what they deem acceptable

"We're gonna force gay shit down your throat until you like it" Lmfao, mask off ? 

[Darling Baphomet]

32 minutes ago, panikooooos said:

"We're gonna force gay shit down your throat until you like it" Lmfao, mask off  

Well, more specifically, we're going to give the people who actually buy our games the representation they want in increasing strength, which in turn will automatically make the less headstrong representation more accepted. That's progress, baby!

[EcoShifter]

On 5/2/2020 at 8:07 AM, Golem25 said:

I've had another think about the whole thing, and I believe this leak makes me appreciate the first game more - in hindsight. I didn't like it, actually, and I still think it's meh at best, but that's because I am a sour, critical weeb.

 

TLOU was so universally praised because it had universal appeal; a good narrative for people who want a good story, a strong female character (an actually good one!) for people who wanted that, and a gruff male protag for the people who wanted one. Perfect, everyone is being catered to without stepping on anyone's toes; Ellie was well received by people who don't usually care about female representation for the way in which she was presented. She was portrayed as a 14 year old girl in her gameplay segments, not as an unstoppable Navy SEAL.

 

Ellie was well received from a character standpoint, but she was criticized for having mostly contradictory immersion-breaking gameplay design (and needing to be escorted various times over bodies of water).

 

1 hour ago, Darling Baphomet said:

People complained about TLoU and Ellie being gay in the first game as well.

 

Either way, this response is exactly why we need more flamboyant, challenging representation - by challenging the audience, you change what they deem acceptable. 

 

Ellie has still received a large amount of support for people having the head-canon that she represents gays/lesbians after the events of the *Left Behind DLC, and a lot of people still support/love her despite her sexuality.

 

Terrible approach. And exploiting the human mind by conditioning them with something long enough to make them adapt to/with it or come to like something doesn't prove the point you're obviously trying to make.

 

Quote

One way or another, this kind of representation gets results, even if that result is making otherwise bigoted people wax nostalgic for the feminist / LGBT / whatever representation that they found a bit less offensive.

 

Flawed results, yes.

Edited May 3, 2020 by EcoShifter

[MCH-MONOH7DRAT3]

19 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

Well, more specifically, we're going to give the people who actually buy our games the representation they want in increasing strength, which in turn will automatically make the less headstrong representation more accepted. That's progress, baby!

 

More of a REGRESS , thanks to units like You people get pissed . Ellie or Bill being gay means S""T , they were just good writen and believable characters ? 

And if all you have to bring up is that ? about representing and forcing it on others then  maybe it is time to leave ? 

Edited May 3, 2020 by MCH-MONOH7DRAT3

[Darling Baphomet]

35 minutes ago, MCH-MONOH7DRAT3 said:

 

More of a REGRESS , thanks to units like You people get pissed . Ellie or Bill being gay means S""T , they were just good writen and believable characters  

And if all you have to bring up is that  about representing and forcing it on others then  maybe it is time to leave ? 

 

Nah, they get angry at the most severe cases of representation - that's the point. The more progressive you get, the more accepted the stuff that doesn't push the boundaries is. Getting angry at representation isn't proof that that representation is making people hate LGBT people or whatever - it's proof that they already did, which is why representation of them upsets them so much. But when we continue to push the boundaries further and further towards inclusion, they have to keep adapting to fight the fringe cases.

 

36 minutes ago, EcoShifter said:

Terrible approach. And exploiting the human mind by conditioning them with something long enough to make them adapt to/with it or come to like something doesn't prove the point you're obviously trying to make.

 

Flawed results, yes.

 

I disagree. Not only does it provide LGBT people with the representation they want, but it also pushes the boundaries. That's a win / win in my mind. People will get upset on the internet, sure. But right-wing cancel culture will exist regardless of our interference.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Darling Baphomet

[MCH-MONOH7DRAT3]

Then contact ND creative directors or writers and make most GAY game in history to push boundaries ,

there will be one big issue there , inverstors will laught asses off at whole idea 

Edited May 3, 2020 by MCH-MONOH7DRAT3

[Darling Baphomet]

30 minutes ago, MCH-MONOH7DRAT3 said:

Then contact ND creative directors or writers and make most GAY game in history to push boundaries ,

there will be one big issue there , inverstors will laught asses off at whole idea 

 

I dunno, LGBT / feminist representation's worked out pretty well for the Last of Us, Borderlands, Horizon, Days Gone, and so on and so forth. Hell, Wolfenstein 2 dialed it up to 5000 with shock value representation - literally going out of its way to offend ~certain demographics~ and it performed great. Devs have been testing the waters for years, and now it's safe for them to say that we're an audience worth pandering to.

[SnowxSakura]

1 hour ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

Nah, they get angry at the most severe cases of representation - that's the point. The more progressive you get, the more accepted the stuff that doesn't push the boundaries is. Getting angry at representation isn't proof that that representation is making people hate LGBT people or whatever - it's proof that they already did, which is why representation of them upsets them so much. But when we continue to push the boundaries further and further towards inclusion, they have to keep adapting to fight the fringe cases.

 

 

I disagree. Not only does it provide LGBT people with the representation they want, but it also pushes the boundaries. That's a win / win in my mind. People will get upset on the internet, sure. But right-wing cancel culture will exist regardless of our interference.

You're more likely to push people away the harder you press. There's nothing wrong with LGBT representation in video games, but you have to also consider that a lot of people are still uncomfortable with that.

 

Trying to force it down people's throats will just negatively affect their movement instead of helping it.

[TJ_Solo]

26 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

You're more likely to push people away the harder you press. There's nothing wrong with LGBT representation in video games, but you have to also consider that a lot of people are still uncomfortable with that.

 

Trying to force it down people's throats will just negatively affect their movement instead of helping it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_with_LGBT_characters

 

It happens. There's no way to include it and not make certain people unconformable.

As a matter of fact, being uncomfortable could be the goal. Shit like gore, blood, murder, rape, etc are all negative subject matter than *can* make people uncomfortable....ON PURPOSE.  
If you are the kind of person that can't accept how big and varied stories are then you shouldn't be playing video games in the first place. You will always be faced with people making stories/characters that upset your personal limitations. 

You should do you and avoid these things. You won't be able to stop others from expressing themselves and others from partaking in what you dislike. 

There's nothing being shoved in your face or down your throat. You can easily find a hole to crawl in and pretend away things you don't like until the day you idea. ez.