TLOU 2 spoilers galore and also Ghost of Tsushima delayed

[Darling Baphomet]

30 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

You're more likely to push people away the harder you press. There's nothing wrong with LGBT representation in video games, but you have to also consider that a lot of people are still uncomfortable with that.

 

Trying to force it down people's throats will just negatively affect their movement instead of helping it.

Well, again, that negative reaction usually doesn't come from people who support LGBT people - it comes from the people most easily offended by them. Trying to make ourselves invisible for the sake of people who find our existence offensive isn't a viable strategy. Outrage is the cost of existing.

[PooPooBlast]

 

In reply to Jason Schreier's twitter comments about how he is saying that the leaker wasn't a ND employee but rather a hacker, well he was lying about something. He said that the leak was from an early build. 

 

That's incorrect when the video here shows date ranges from 29feb2020 to 04apr2020 some of which say disc build as well ( which are the final copies before the disc will be burnt on the BluRay). 

 

https://m.bilibili.com/video/BV1yZ4y1W7x9?p=7

 

I also would like to say that I wasn't the one who noticed this. Some guy on Reddit did. Just being a messenger here. 

 

I'm not saying that this means the leaker was definitely a ND employee but Jason's story has some inconsistencies in it which makes me question the validity of his claims.. No big deal either way as the leaks are out regardless but I just wanted to mention this

Edited May 4, 2020 by PooPooBlast

[Seraphim_Rez]

17 minutes ago, PooPooBlast said:

 

In reply to Jason Schreier's twitter comments about how he is saying that the leaker wasn't a ND employee but rather a hacker, well he was lying about something. He said that the leak was from an early build. 

 

That's incorrect when the video here shows date ranges from 29feb2020 to 04apr2020 some of which say disc build as well ( which are the final copies before the disc will be burnt on the BluRay). 

 

https://m.bilibili.com/video/BV1yZ4y1W7x9?p=7

 

I also would like to say that I wasn't the one who noticed this. Some guy on Reddit did. Just being a messenger here. 

 

I'm not saying that this means the leaker was definitely a ND employee but Jason's story has some inconsistencies in it which makes me question the validity of his claims.. No big deal either way as the leaks are out regardless but I just wanted to mention this

 

He's not really lying since he's not stating it as fact. He just says he THINKS it was an earlier build with a caveat that he hasn't watched the footage himself.

 

https://kotaku.com/hackers-are-likely-responsible-for-the-last-of-us-ii-le-1843230805

 

But yes, the developer code listed in the footage is listed as April which since the game was originally supposed to come in May means that it is the final build if not close to it.
ND has closed the security vulnerability as of last week, but the damage has been done.

 

Remember though that Schreier is not a dev himself, he's simply getting this information from devs that have talked to him and know more about what is going on. It doesn't make sense for him to do damage control since he was the one that wrote the articles that got everyone outraged at Naughty Dog and Rockstar's work culture in the first place.

[Starcade_Legend]

I’m actually disturbed by SONY’s handling of this situation, especially being on the cusp of revealing your next gen gaming console to the world.  This issue isn’t prompted by a vocal minority, but has gained a strong negative vibe to your mainstream fan base.  Take the L (as in missed financial projections for the game), stop harassing YouTubers, and focus on a great next gen reveal (you’ve got more problems from me and others than a main character dying early if you don’t make *SOME FORM OF LEGACY CONSOLE BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY*}.
 

And for Pete’s sake, seriously: the high majority of people really don’t care about the leaker.  The story sucks for the masses, period point blank.  Fans are emotionally invested in Joel and Ellie...just why?

 

Edit: Wait...does this have to do with the movie that they’re working on for this game?  Is this a type of segue-way of similar circumstances what they did with legacy Star Wars characters for their newer movies?  Is this all...for Hollywood?  ?

[Golem25]

14 hours ago, Darling Baphomet said:

by challenging the audience, you change what they deem acceptable.

 

What the flippity F? I'd prefer if my games try to entertain me without restraint, rather than disingenuously try and sway my opinions and standards. That's disgusting, that's downright filthy. This is entertainment, not propaganda. If hacks like Druckmann think I will gladly pay 60 bucks for them to hamfistedly ram their personal pet peeves down my throat, they can think again - and have their schlock leaked all over the internet. God damn, am I happy Japan exists and continues to output actual good games that do not hold their players for fools, bigots, and gullible idiots to be turned to some noble cause.

 

Quote

most people who complained about Borderlands 2's writing (and I admit, it was bad) were probably already homophobic

 

10/10, would get mad again. Anthony Burch couldn't write his way out of a pram, everyone suddenly and mysteriously hating LGBTQIA+ people doesn't change that - and applying Occam's Razor would tell you as much. Is one man bad at writing, or are countless players just insufferable.... what the insane term for that again.... Cishets?

 

Quote

Outrage is the cost of existing.

 

LMAO, is peaceful co-existence not an option anymore?

Edited May 4, 2020 by Golem25

[MCH-MONOH7DRAT3]

Don't go too rough Golem , quite a fev posts were taken off...     #❄️

Edited May 4, 2020 by MCH-MONOH7DRAT3

[TJ_Solo]

Quote

 

What the flippity fuck? I'd prefer if my games try to entertain me without restraint, rather than disingenuously try and sway my opinions and standards.

 

The crux of that is the assumption that the points being conveyed are disingenuous and that your opinions/standards should not be reconsidered. 

 

Saying you want games to entertain you without restraint doesn't match your comment at all.  You should have said "I want games to just entertain me and restrain themselves from making me feel uncomfortable."

 

Every fictional story has a message or lesson it is trying to teach. It isn't propaganda just because the message offends you in some way. 

 

If outrage isn't the cost of existing with the public then explain how easily and frequently you are outraged about other people? Given your other insults and salty demeanor, you are paying a high cost everyday. 

 

[Golem25]

3 minutes ago, MCH-MONOH7DRAT3 said:

Don't go to rough Golem , quite a fev posts were taken off...     #❄️

Cheers, good point. It's actually reassuring to see; the moderation team uphold standards as they should, but it's clear that this community by and large isn't taking any shit. Very proud.

[Golem25]

12 minutes ago, TJ_Solo said:

 

The crux of that is the assumption that the points being conveyed are disingenuous and that your opinions/standards should not be reconsidered.

 

Yes, it's disingenuous. I'm perfectly fine of reconsidering on my own.

 

Quote

Saying you want games to entertain you without restraint doesn't match your comment at all.  You should have said "I want games to just entertain me and restrain themselves from making me feel uncomfortable."

 

Try not putting words in my mouth. My comments match perfectly fine. I've got a copy of Corpse Party Blood Drive sitting in my drawer, completely ready to make me uncomfortable. Oh, and Persona 4 Golden? Right, Kanji, excellently written character. I've been terrifically entertained and impressed by the game. If anything Yosuke makes me uncomfortable, talk about a one track mind on him and Teddie.

 

Quote

Every fictional story has a message or lesson it is trying to teach. It isn't propaganda just because the message offends you in some way. 

 

This is implying that the message offends me. You think I hate LGBTQIA+ folks? Because that's the assumption, to use your own big fancy words, that you seem to be going on here. From the start it's been clear that I find fault with the intentions behind the message and the way it's brought. 

 

Quote

If outrage isn't the cost of existing with the public then explain how easily and frequently you are outraged about other people? Given your other insults and salty demeanor, you are paying a high cost everyday.

 

Typing on a semi-anonymous message board in my spare time is salty now? Sure. This is my second post of the morning, and maybe fourth or so in this thread (and one of those was a meme, at that). But please, go take a fine tooth comb through my posting history, mmmh? I'd love you to quantify 'easily' and 'frequently', but I know you can't - and won't. Find me three personal insults directed at other forum members while you're at it. It's a shame that you're so intent on misrepresenting my person (oops, is that an insult? I don't know, should we vote on that?).

Edited May 4, 2020 by Golem25

[Darling Baphomet]

45 minutes ago, Golem25 said:

 

What the flippity F? I'd prefer if my games try to entertain me without restraint, rather than disingenuously try and sway my opinions and standards. That's disgusting, that's downright filthy. This is entertainment, not propaganda. If hacks like Druckmann think I will gladly pay 60 bucks for them to hamfistedly ram their personal pet peeves down my throat, they can think again - and have their schlock leaked all over the internet. God damn, am I happy Japan exists and continues to output actual good games that do not hold their players for fools, bigots, and gullible idiots to be turned to some noble cause.

 

Maybe you're not the ones these games are trying to entertain? Either way, stories are made with a purpose. You do not typically make a story if all you need is mindless entertainment. When you're telling a story, you're putting your morals, you're putting your views, into a piece of work; into a narrative. This is true whether you're a progressive, or... whatever else is on the table. Storytelling is an art form that has always been informed by the real world and the author's morality and views.

 

45 minutes ago, Golem25 said:

10/10, would get mad again. Anthony Burch couldn't write his way out of a pram, everyone suddenly and mysteriously hating LGBTQIA+ people doesn't change that - and applying Occam's Razor would tell you as much. Is one man bad at writing, or are countless players just insufferable.... what the insane term for that again.... Cishets?

 

It's not sudden OR mysterious. LGBT people have been killed just for existing for most of history. We weren't able to legally get married until less than a decade ago. Major religions are still teaching that we deserve eternal torture just for the sin of existing.

The lack of critical thinking (or any knowledge of history) is telling here.

 

45 minutes ago, Golem25 said:

LMAO, is peaceful co-existence not an option anymore?

 

Well, that's really up to you to decide. You can try and work towards a society where we don't throw hissy fits on trophy hoarding sites because a character in a video game is gay, or you can... be yourself. That seems to be working out great so far. Your choice!

Edited May 4, 2020 by Darling Baphomet

[Golem25]

44 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

Maybe you're not the ones these games are trying to entertain? Either way, stories are made with a purpose. You do not typically make a story if all you need is mindless entertainment. When you're telling a story, you're putting your morals, you're putting your views, into a piece of work; into a narrative. This is true whether you're a progressive, or... whatever else is on the table. Storytelling is an art form that has always been informed by the real world and the author's morality and views.

 

I'd say that's a terrifically narrow view of storytelling, actually. It pays to be a bit more open-minded, really. To simply hold that a story will always hold your personal morals, your personal views, is quite strange - and insulting to any author for implying that they are unable to divest their personal views from the product they are crafting. How many of us have played many a game where the story is, in fact, mindless, without a strong message that you get beaten over the head with?

 

Quote

It's not sudden OR mysterious. LGBT people have been killed just for existing for most of history. We weren't able to legally get married until less than a decade ago. Major religions are still teaching that we deserve eternal torture just for the sin of existing.

The lack of critical thinking (or any knowledge of history) is telling here.

 

What does murder have to do with people not liking the story of Borderlands 2? Holy hyperbole Batman! Also, inform yourself; gay marriage has been legal for much longer (double the amount of time you listed) in certain parts of the world. Can't say I don't find it sad that religions teach such things, but I can think of one major example that strongly suggest killing all heathens anyway. Sounds like we're on the same team, my man.

 

Also, want to quantify my lack of critical thinking? Knowledge of history? Do I need to know the ins and outs of LGBTQIA+ persecution to call Borderlands 2's writing shite? Wait, what was this again about the Roman and Greek baths where older and young men comingled? It's almost like history isn't just black and white - or 100% fitting a narrative one way or another.

 

Quote

Well, that's really up to you to decide. You can try and work towards a society where we don't throw hissy fits on trophy hoarding sites because a character in a video game is gay, or you can... do literally anything except that. Your choice!

 

My choice indeed - and it's great that we live in a society where so much is allowed (although we need to stop giving young children hormones and body-altering procedures, but that's a topic for another day). However, I still don't see the hissy fit you are supposing I am throwing, or indeed me being angry someone is gay or not. In fact, I praised Ellie as a character in one of my earlier posts - your buddy with the weird name can vouch for that, he should be checking my posting history right about now. Furthermore, I'd say the posters in this thread have all been magnificent in their behaviour, and eloquently yet firmly denounced the direction TLOU2 was taken in - without any gay-bashing or voiding marriages.

 

Meanwhile, I suggest you take your own advice, and lay off on the exclamations of 'lack of critical thinking', 'lack of historical knowledge', and trying to nail forum members for being anti-LGBTQIA+ when there is no supporting evidence for this. You could do literally anything except that!

Edited May 4, 2020 by Golem25

[Golem25]

4 minutes ago, talespagni said:

 

In a nutshell, that's how the revolutionary mindset works.

That's how they forced people to understand and accept abortion, drug legalization, criminals as victims of society, gender ideology, all the -ism movements (feminism, racism, gayzism, etc) and so on and so forth.

 

Sooner rather than later, that's how they will force people to understand and accept incest and pedophilia, as it is "a form of love", quoting a term I saw somewhere a few weeks ago.

 

End goal: a project of power which will end up in a selected, elite few controlling everything the rest will be able to do, think and rely on. Totalitarism.

 

I have to say this is based and redpilled (yes, BOTH!), but do note that there is a slippery slope logical fallacy in there. Nonetheless, I share your worries on society's moral standards degrading to a point where it becomes untenable. Having a chonky MA'AM as playable character in TLOU2 might or might not contribute to a continued slide into depravity, that's not for me to say.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Golem25

[Darling Baphomet]

1 minute ago, talespagni said:

Sooner rather than later, that's how they will force people to understand and accept incest and pedophilia, as it is "a form of love", quoting a term I saw somewhere a few weeks ago.

 

Pedophilia is more of a right wing / conservative preoccupation, last I checked.

 

1 minute ago, talespagni said:

End goal: a project of power which will end up in a selected, elite few controlling everything the rest will be able to do, think and rely on. Totalitarism.

 

Seems like a bit of a useless goal, given that capitalism more or less has already accomplished that for us.

 

5 minutes ago, Golem25 said:

What does murder have to do with people not liking the story of Borderlands 2? Holy hyperbole Batman! Also, inform yourself; gay marriage has been legal for much longer (double the amount of time you listed) in certain parts of the world. Can't say I don't find it sad that religions teach such things, but I can think of one major example that strongly suggest killing all heathens anyway. Sounds like we're on the same team, my man.

 

Well, when human history has predominantly been one of oppression ,it's fair to say that that hasn't vanished overnight. Ergo, many people are still homophobic. Ergo, the outlash against Borderlands 2's writing was one mostly fueled by said pre-existing homophobia - it didn't come out of nowhere.

 

As I said, Borderlands 2's writing was terrible. I admit that freely. But most people didn't concentrate on the actual writing flaws - the fact that the characters completely changed from Borderlands 1, the fact that he hadn't even played the first game, the fact that he completely retconned the first game's ending, et cetera - and concentrated on lowbrow gotchas like images of him wearing a skirt, or complaints about how loud his gay characters were. And I think it's safe to say that the people who focused on that did so out of some predisposed bias.

[Solid-Fisch]

Guys, another new cutscene from the game just got leaked! Putting it into the spoilers...

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Solid-Fisch

[MCH-MONOH7DRAT3]

Baphomet  : ....... phobia , ....... phobia  , ..........phobia  . Just accept that some people will not like you or your views and so on . Thats the way of life and everyone no matter who he/she is will experience that 

[Darling Baphomet]

I could say the same for you. If you don't like feminist representation in your video games, just move on. Just accept that you don't always get what you want. Sometimes, developers decide that certain demographics don't make the cut. In your own words, "Thats the way of life and everyone no matter who he/she is will experience that"

[AJ_Radio]

14 minutes ago, talespagni said:

 

In a nutshell, that's how the revolutionary mindset works.

That's how they forced people to understand and accept abortion, drug legalization, criminals as victims of society, gender ideology, all the -ism movements (feminism, racism, gayzism, etc) and so on and so forth.

 

Sooner rather than later, that's how they will force people to understand and accept incest and pedophilia, as it is "a form of love", quoting a term I saw somewhere a few weeks ago.

 

End goal: a project of power which will end up in a selected, elite few controlling everything the rest will be able to do, think and rely on. Totalitarism.

 

We've been going in this direction already, since Donald Trump sat his ass in office and even well before that.

 

This is why I often think the 1980s and 1990s were simply a better time for America. Companies weren't a bunch of overbloated corporations looking to buy each other out. You were allowed to say things that most people today would deem as outright 'offensive'.

 

All of the radicals are working towards a project of power. You don't think asshats like Alex Jones would jump on that opportunity? I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate, while the masses continue to be blind and vote for idiot politicians who try to pass heinous laws without doing any research ahead of time. All working on stripping away the rights and freedoms that people like Martin Luther King Jr spent their entire lives going towards. These politicians never gave a rat's ass.

 

We're going towards an Orwellian society, where nothing is okay ever and you're being questioned for the most minor of actions. And that will be the true death of freedom.

[Golem25]

1 minute ago, Darling Baphomet said:

Pedophilia is more of a right wing / conservative preoccupation, last I checked.

Well, now I see why posts were getting deleted. Unless you have some sound sources on that claim, I'd suggest you'd hold your tongue. What an incredibly disgusting thing to infer, deary me. I was called salty earlier for simply speaking my mind, so I'd love to know what people think about a forum member just bluntly attaching such a heinous thing to a full wing of the political spectrum.

 

Quote

Seems like a bit of a useless goal, given that capitalism more or less has already accomplished that for us.

 

Definitely going off topic here, but no, let's be real; there are very few totalitarian states in the west, and blaming the free market for that is, frankly, hilarious. I stubbed my toe this morning, DAMN YOU NEOLIBERALISM!

 

Quote

Well, when human history has predominantly been one of oppression ,it's fair to say that that hasn't vanished overnight. Ergo, many people are still homophobic. Ergo, the outlash against Borderlands 2's writing was one mostly fueled by said pre-existing homophobia - it didn't come out of nowhere.

 

'Most of history was nasty, so people now too are nasty'. What a bizarre equation to make. Might as well bring in the nature of Man while we're at it. That reminds me, humanity for 99% of its history defecated out in the open - but we stamped that out pretty quickly. Hmmm, it's almost like behaviour and prejudice (partiality to open defecation) can change rather quickly.

 

Borderlands 2's writing was universally derided, so I'm still not sure why you're desperately trying to pin it on some kind of mass homophobia - you yourself admitted Burch did a bad job, are you homophobic too? That'd be quite the plot twist, but I've seen more bizarre things being said in this thread. Let's just come clean and note that this boogeyman of yours isn't responsible for BL2's negative reception, mmmh? I can't even bloody remember any LGBTQIA+ characters, wasn't Janey stupidly inserted into the pre-Sequel? Or are we talking about Hammerlock? I think the real problem with him is that he is an offensive (not to mention tired) stereotype of English gentlemen and big game hunters. Although I can't blame people for being bewildered about a DLC themed around his wedding, magnifying a small trait to the point where you can't help but wonder what the writers were smoking.

 

Quote

As I said, Borderlands 2's writing was terrible. I admit that freely. But most people didn't concentrate on the actual writing flaws - the fact that the characters completely changed from Borderlands 1, the fact that he hadn't even played the first game, the fact that he completely retconned the first game's ending, et cetera - and concentrated on lowbrow gotchas like images of him wearing a skirt, or complaints about how loud his gay characters were. And I think it's safe to say that the people who focused on that did so out of some predisposed bias.

 

Ah, you said it again, good. I'm sure ResetERA and other such scumholes like to think it was gay-bashing, but that's simply not true. Both at the time and years after the fact, it is the incessant meme-ing that remains the focus of critique on BL2's writing - especially now that it's even more dated than it was at the time. Every male party member in Persona 4 Golden wears a skirt in the game, but I've seen no anti-gay criticism levied at that segment; could it be that rampant homophobia in gaming simply isn't as big a problem as some people would like it to be?

[Darling Baphomet]

2 minutes ago, Spaz said:

All of the radicals are working towards a project of power. You don't think asshats like Alex Jones would jump on that opportunity? I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate, while the masses continue to be blind and vote for idiot politicians who try to pass heinous laws without doing any research ahead of time. All working on stripping away the rights and freedoms that people like Martin Luther King Jr spent their entire lives going towards. These politicians never gave a rat's ass.

 

We're going towards an Orwellian society, where nothing is okay ever and you're being questioned for the most minor of actions. And that will be the true death of freedom.

 

I feel like these people can't differentiate between liberals and leftists, and so they just decide that anybody who disagrees with them is a liberal boogeyman, when really, most leftists despise liberals or, at best, view them as harm reduction. In truth, America's politics are dominated by corporatist conservatives, both blue and red. The end goal of leftism has always been anarchy, so the accusations of totalitarianism are clearly misdirected from people like HRC, who could very well run as a Republican if she were a little bit more obnoxious.

[Stardroid]

4 minutes ago, Golem25 said:

Well, now I see why posts were getting deleted. Unless you have some sound sources on that claim, I'd suggest you'd hold your tongue. What an incredibly disgusting thing to infer, deary me. I was called salty earlier for simply speaking my mind, so I'd love to know what people think about a forum member just bluntly attaching such a heinous thing to a full wing of the political spectrum.

 

 

I think you should grow up for one and learn to read what this person is actually saying instead of resorting to sophistry. You've been doing it the whole time. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Stardroid

[MCH-MONOH7DRAT3]

No i have no problem with any of that stuff , Horizon zero was good . My point being that you would like to force it and if someone says NO , all sorts of phobias gets thrown right away or making historical martyrs out of gay ppl 

Spoiler

My only gripe with TLOU 2 is that story makes J&E a villains and shit on them , not weird WONDERWOMAN

 

[Darling Baphomet]

4 minutes ago, MCH-MONOH7DRAT3 said:

No i have no problem with any of that stuff , Horizon zero was good . My point being that you would like to force it and if someone says NO , all sorts of phobias gets thrown right away or making historical martyrs out of gay ppl 

  Hide contents

My only gripe with TLOU 2 is that story makes J&E a villains and shit on them , not weird WONDERWOMAN

 

 

You have people in this thread literally ranting about feminism and gay agendas. That's bigotry. The thing with bigotry is it doesn't have to be active hatred against people. It can be passive bias, e.g. "well, I'm fine with gay people, but I just don't want to have to see them!" That's no less insidious a form of hatred, it's just more passive, and easier to accept. So yes, I think it's fair to say that most of the people in this thread are peddling some form of bigotry, even if it's very repressed. If the plot was the only problem, the plot could be addressed in and of itself without addressing a certain character and hyperfocusing on her features, no?

 

Edit: I literally have frog man proving my points for me. The fact that Golem agrees with this person, but has issue with me, indicates that he, too, has similar inclinations. And so on, and so forth.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Darling Baphomet

[Stardroid]

I was wondering how long it would take for Mister Frog man to take off his mask and reveal that he is in fact Jordan Peterson. Lmfao what a load of god damn rubbish. 

[Golem25]

On 5/4/2020 at 5:21 AM, Darling Baphomet said:

 

I feel like these people can't differentiate between liberals and leftists, and so they just decide that anybody who disagrees with them is a liberal boogeyman, when really, most leftists despise liberals or, at best, view them as harm reduction. In truth, America's politics are dominated by corporatist conservatives, both blue and red. The end goal of leftism has always been anarchy, so the accusations of totalitarianism are clearly misdirected from people like HRC, who could very well run as a Republican if she were a little bit more obnoxious.

And anyone who criticizes gay characters for whatever reason is homophobic? Or is that a different line of thinking?

 

I have to say, the end goal of leftism might be aNaRcHy but the end result so far is.... what? Keeping ResetERA and hipster coffee bars in business?

 

On 5/4/2020 at 5:21 AM, Stardroid said:

I think you should grow up for one and learn to read what this person is actually saying instead of resorting to sophistry. You've been doing it the whole time. 

 

Feel free to actually respond to whatever you suggest I am falsely claiming. All I see in your post right now is a dig at my maturity and saying I've been dishonest. Be the change you want to see in the world, if you can muster it. I'd also suggest laying off your directed attack at someone else. It's not a good look.

 

Quote

You have people in this thread literally ranting about feminism and gay agendas. That's bigotry. The thing with bigotry is it doesn't have to be active hatred against people. It can be passive bias, e.g. "well, I'm fine with gay people, but I just don't want to have to see them!" That's no less insidious a form of hatred, it's just more passive, and easier to accept. So yes, I think it's fair to say that most of the people in this thread are peddling some form of bigotry, even if it's very repressed. If the plot was the only problem, the plot could be addressed in and of itself without addressing a certain character and hyperfocusing on her features, no?

 

Well, agendas are certainly being discussed but I still don't see any outright homophobia in all but a few localized instances. I'm happy you are still valiantly defending... uh, I'm not sure what you're defending, but I applaud your valour all the same.

 

And again, to just come out and say 'most people in this thread are peddling some form of bigotry' is really so far beneath any level of proper discourse that I can't help but feel that you should tone down your posting. Besides that, plot and characters are integral, umbilically tied together if you will. It is no wonder both are being discussed, and properly at that by the people you seem intent on painting in a negative light

Edited January 20, 2023 by Beyondthegrave07
Removed tagged name, per request

[Stardroid]

6 minutes ago, Golem25 said:

And anyone who criticizes gay characters for whatever reason is homophobic? Or is that a different line of thinking?

 

I have to say, the end goal of leftism might be aNaRcHy but the end result so far is.... what? Keeping ResetERA and hipster coffee bars in business?

 

 

Feel free to actually respond to whatever you suggest I am falsely claiming. All I see in your post right now is a dig at my maturity and saying I've been dishonest. Be the change you want to see in the world, if you can muster it. I'd also suggest laying off your directed attack at talespagni. It's not a good look.

 

 

Well, agendas are certainly being discussed but I still don't see any outright homophobia in all but a few localized instances. I'm happy you are still valiantly defending... uh, I'm not sure what you're defending, but I applaud your valour all the same.

 

And again, to just come out and say 'most people in this thread are peddling some form of bigotry' is really so far beneath any level of proper discourse that I can't help but feel that you should tone down your posting. Besides that, plot and characters are integral, umbilically tied together if you will. It is no wonder both are being discussed, and properly at that by the people you seem intent on painting in a negative light

You claimed she stigmatized the whole right wing as pedophiles, her claim is it's more of a right wing thing. This means, concretely that it is more prevalent in ring wing circles, not that every ring winger is a pedophile. You attempt to put a magnifying glass on this to make an argument out of thin air to get the upper hand and you've been doing it throughout the whole topic.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Stardroid