TLOU 2 spoilers galore and also Ghost of Tsushima delayed

[Darling Baphomet]

Anyway, before I go to bed, here's the breakdown: video games have always pandered. That super buff white dude you've played as for the last ~30 years? That's pandering. It just so happens that for most of gaming history, its audience was almost exclusively men, so men were the only audience to pander to. And, naturally, pandering to men being the default breeds a sort of complacency. Which is why whenever somebody panders to an audience that *isn't* men, there's mass outcry. You're used to being served games on a silver platter. You're used to being the only people devs cared enough to make games for. Well, times have changed, and now, one way or the other, you have to share.

 

It's also worth noting that there's nothing wrong with pandering to men, the problem here is that it's been the default and that's resulted in certain people having developed an entitlement to developers' time and efforts, when they were really only a convenient demographic. It's like a spoiled child realizing that they have to share their toys with their younger sibling, and resenting them because of it.

[Golem25]

Just now, Stardroid said:

You claimed she stigmatized the whole right wing as pedophiles, her claim is it's more of a right wing thing. Does means, concretely that it is more prevalent in ring wing circles, not that every ring winger is a pedophile. You attempt to put a magnifying glass on this to make an argument out of thin air to get the upper hand and you've been doing it throughout the whole topic.

Why, yes, I read his comment as such. It's okay for you to disagree, of course. I can't help but think it's a totally unwarranted and unsubstantiated attempt at character assassination - especially when no proof to back up his claims has been forthcoming. Nonetheless, I don't like you trying to enforce your interpretation of someone's post on me, I'm perfectly capable of reading without you chewing the cud for me.

 

Also, I see you again try to attack my methods of debating, but you still fail to provide valid proof for your claims. Thin air? Whole topic? My good man, I have been posting regularly for only the last page (or, well, page 11 and 12). Feel free to try and rebuke me properly, beyond simply telling me 'you read that wrong'.

[Stardroid]

1 minute ago, Golem25 said:

Why, yes, I read his comment as such. It's okay for you to disagree, of course. I can't help but think it's a totally unwarranted and unsubstantiated attempt at character assassination - especially when no proof to back up his claims has been forthcoming. Nonetheless, I don't like you trying to enforce your interpretation of someone's post on me, I'm perfectly capable of reading without you chewing the cud for me.

 

Also, I see you again try to attack my methods of debating, but you still fail to provide valid proof for your claims. Thin air? Whole topic? My good man, I have been posting regularly for only the last page (or, well, page 11 and 12). Feel free to try and rebuke me properly, beyond simply telling me 'you read that wrong'.

I am sorry that my ability at comprehensive reading is an invasion to your pride. You clearly need all the help you can get with reading and I am just a very generous man. I think the person you have been arguing with has done a pretty decent job. I'm not needed to parrot it all over again. 

[Darling Baphomet]

2 minutes ago, talespagni said:

 

1 - Tell me about Jeffrey Epstein's most well-known associate: Bill Clinton.

 

2 - I was not talking in economic terms.

 

Oh dear. You think Democrats aren't just conservative-lite? You're really sipping the two party koolaid, aren't you? Poor thing.

[Golem25]

2 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

Anyway, before I go to bed, here's the breakdown: video games have always pandered. That super buff white dude you've played as for the last ~30 years? That's pandering. It just so happens that for most of gaming history, its audience was almost exclusively men, so men were the only audience to pander to. And, naturally, pandering to men being the default breeds a sort of complacency. Which is why whenever somebody panders to an audience that *isn't* men, there's mass outcry. You're used to being served games on a silver platter. You're used to being the only people devs cared enough to make games for. Well, times have changed, and now, one way or the other, you have to share.

 

No one has had a problem with Ellie previously, or Lara Croft, or Bayonetta, or any fighting game character ever. I've seen dudes commit to playing Chun Li their entire lives. People have been maining Zelda since Smash Bros Melee.

 

It's such a shame that your narrow views extend from homophobia to society at large to 'pandering' in gaming. I love playing Japanese games, but I can tell you none of those characters pander to me in being white! I enjoyed Senran Kagura, but I'm not a busty female shinobi. No one minds sharing, and indeed, many people celebrate it. TLOU was celebrated. We have always shared, and we have always enjoyed it. Gender is like sexual orientation and ethnicity, it has stopped very few from enjoying games previously. The utter and complete disrespect to previous characters and the shithouse story are what will keep people from enjoying TLOU2, however.

 

Quote

It's also worth noting that there's nothing wrong with pandering to men, the problem here is that it's been the default and that's resulted in certain people having developed an entitlement to developers' time and efforts, when they were really only a convenient demographic. It's like a spoiled child realizing that they have to share their toys with their younger sibling, and resenting them because of it.

 

Why yes, the opposition is 'entitled' I feel like we were all waiting to hear that from you. But no, it is not an issue as I remarked previously. Gaming as whole is already terrifically diverse, but it seems that every time criticism is levelled at someone's darling game or character, those arguments are mistaken for whatever -ism is hip that day.

2 minutes ago, Stardroid said:

I am sorry that my ability at comprehensive reading is an invasion to your pride. You clearly need all the help you can get with reading and I am just a very generous man. I think the person you have been arguing with has done a pretty decent job. I'm not needed to parrot it all over again. 

Comprehensive reading? You mean reading comprehension? LMAO, this is hilarious. You have to permit me this dig at your choice of words here - for I feel you are attempting to throw some shade at my literacy. All in good humour, I assume?

 

Anyway, whichever person I've been replying to has done a terribly poor job, because we are still here without any resolution. They've failed to rebuke me, and you flat out refuse to do their dirty work for them (for which I cannot blame you, by the by). But I'm glad you've comprehensively read the thread all the same.

[panikooooos]

32 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

Pedophilia is more of a right wing / conservative preoccupation, last I checked

Really makes you think. Did conservatives found NAMBLA? Because last time I checked that was David Thorstad a member of the Socialist Worker's Party and prominent LGBT activist. NAMBLA is currently based in New York and San Francisco, leftist hotbeds. 

2 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

Oh dear. You think Democrats aren't just conservative-lite? You're really sipping the two party koolaid, aren't you? Poor thing.

Democrats are conservative-lite lmfao, don't worry comrade Bernie can still win in 2024!! ?

[Gommes_]

4 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

Oh dear. You think Democrats aren't just conservative-lite? You're really sipping the two party koolaid, aren't you? Poor thing.

 

So, who is liberal then?

[Golem25]

2 minutes ago, panikooooos said:

Really makes you think. Did conservatives found NAMBLA? Because last time I checked that was David Thorstad a member of the Socialist Worker's Party and prominent LGBT activist. NAMBLA is currently based in New York and San Francisco, leftist hotbeds. 

Democrats are conservative-lite lmfao, don't worry comrade Bernie can still win in 2024!! ?

Will you post the Stonetoss comic with the torn Bernie 2020 banner, or will I? Never mind, I will;

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Golem25

[panikooooos]

1 minute ago, Golem25 said:

Will you post the Stonetoss comic with the torn Bernie 2020 banner, or will I?

Eh might as well at this point ?

Spoiler

 

[MCH-MONOH7DRAT3]

1 minute ago, Darling Baphomet said:

Anyway, before I go to bed, here's the breakdown: video games have always pandered. That super buff white dude you've played as for the last ~30 years? That's pandering. It just so happens that for most of gaming history, its audience was almost exclusively men, so men were the only audience to pander to. And, naturally, pandering to men being the default breeds a sort of complacency. Which is why whenever somebody panders to an audience that *isn't* men, there's mass outcry. You're used to being served games on a silver platter. You're used to being the only people devs cared enough to make games for. Well, times have changed, and now, one way or the other, you have to share.

 

It's also worth noting that there's nothing wrong with pandering to men, the problem here is that it's been the default and that's resulted in certain people having developed an entitlement to developers' time and efforts, when they were really only a convenient demographic. It's like a spoiled child realizing that they have to share their toys with their younger sibling, and resenting them because of it.

 

Thats because 90% or more of gamers are men , adult players at huge majority have no problem with characters that You mention . And industry will cater to us because we buy games.  

 

  

[Stardroid]

7 minutes ago, Golem25 said:

 

Comprehensive reading? You mean reading comprehension? LMAO, this is hilarious. You have to permit me this dig at your choice of words here - for I feel you are attempting to throw some shade at my literacy. All in good humour, I assume?

 

Anyway, whichever person I've been replying to has done a terribly poor job, because we are still here without any resolution. They've failed to rebuke me, and you flat out refuse to do their dirty work for them (for which I cannot blame you, by the by). But I'm glad you've comprehensively read the thread all the same.

 

Do not worry, good sire, for I am indeed attempting to throw some shade (tips fedora). However, hast though considered the possibility of exiting thy echo chamber? The fact that you're about to gang up again with Frog Man and Kratos Man. Ah, this has been such a circus, it's unbelievable. Anyway, I may indeed pick up your arguments and have a little conversation of I keep following this topic. 

[Stardroid]

2 minutes ago, MCH-MONOH7DRAT3 said:

 

Thats because 90% or more of gamers are men , adult players at huge majority have no problem with characters that You mention . And industry will cater to us because we buy games.  

 

  

	Male	Female
2019	54%	46%
2018	55%	45%
2017	59%	42%
2016	59%	41%

1 minute ago, talespagni said:

 

Don't really about your opinions in this thread, buddy.

 

You don't know nothing you well speak.

 

You only speak in fallacies.

 

You only use ad hominem arguments.

 

Just so to prove me you are well-versed in this matter: tell me about Italian philosopher Antonio Gramsci.

 

I'd bet a rat's ass you have never, ever, heard of him.

 

PS: just so you might think I'm only throwing names around to make a point: Gramsci was the ideologist behind the point I made in a previous post (the long one).

Why are you typing this out as if it's a poem though. Also Gramsci is one of the most important Marxists out there. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Stardroid

[Golem25]

5 minutes ago, Stardroid said:

 

Do not worry, good sire, for I am indeed attempting to throw some shade (tips fedora). However, hast though considered the possibility of exiting thy echo chamber? The fact that you're about to gang up again with Frog Man and Kratos Man. Ah, this has been such a circus, it's unbelievable. Anyway, I may indeed pick up your arguments and have a little conversation of I keep following this topic. 

Well, I'm glad we established the presence of a fedora. And the misplaced snide attitude and/or unfunny irony that typically comes with one.

 

I have never previously interacted with the posters you mention, I do not know them, but they seem like sensible chaps. In fact, I disagreed with Pepe the Frog man just a page or two ago - how does that fit your concept of 'ganging up'? Could the same not be true of other 'groups' of posters in this thread? Once you've concocted a semi-coherent rebuke that goes beyond cheap digs and outright refusal to engage, I'll have a look at it.

4 minutes ago, Stardroid said:

	Male	Female
2019	54%	46%
2018	55%	45%
2017	59%	42%
2016	59%	41%

Exhibit A; formatting

Exhibit B; what is the definition of 'games' in this study and what's the share of traditional triple A games compared to, say, mobile games? Like many arguments in this thread, I feel that these numbers may have been presented in a deceiving manner on purpose (albeit by the issuing agency).

Edited May 4, 2020 by Golem25

[Stardroid]

Just now, Golem25 said:

Well, I'm glad we established the presence of a fedora. And the misplaced snide attitude and/or unfunny irony that typically comes with one.

 

I have never previously interacted with the posters you mention, I do not know them, but they seem like sensible chaps. In fact, I disagreed with Pepe the Frog man just a page or two ago - how does that fit your concept of 'ganging up'? Could the same not be true of other 'groups' of posters in this thread? Once you've concocted a semi-coherent rebuke that goes beyond cheap digs and outright refusal to engage, I'll have a look at it.

Ah yes, liking his comments down the line, but I am glad you recognized his slippery slope. If you want me to stop tipping though, you're probably have to stop typing like a Victorian street poet. But yes, you're right, it's about time I stop taking the piss here. I will follow this topic and if I find something worth mentioning, I will sure give you a little quote. 

[Stardroid]

4 minutes ago, talespagni said:

 

Here's another ad hominem argument in the bag.

 

For the other sentence, give a +1 to Google.

An Ad Hominem is a personal insult without any context mate. I asked you why you write everything out as if it's a poem. You don't even know what an Ad Hominem is lmao. 

8 minutes ago, Golem25 said:

Well, I'm glad we established the presence of a fedora. And the misplaced snide attitude and/or unfunny irony that typically comes with one.

 

I have never previously interacted with the posters you mention, I do not know them, but they seem like sensible chaps. In fact, I disagreed with Pepe the Frog man just a page or two ago - how does that fit your concept of 'ganging up'? Could the same not be true of other 'groups' of posters in this thread? Once you've concocted a semi-coherent rebuke that goes beyond cheap digs and outright refusal to engage, I'll have a look at it.

Exhibit A; formatting

Exhibit B; what is the definition of 'games' in this study and what's the share of traditional triple A games compared to, say, mobile games? Like many arguments in this thread, I feel that these numbers may have been presented in a deceiving manner on purpose (albeit by the issuing agency).

 

You can check the data here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_video_games (well sourced of course) not just your average "ItS a WiKiPediA ArticLe"

[Golem25]

2 minutes ago, Stardroid said:

Ah yes, liking his comments down the line, but I am glad you recognized his slippery slope. If you want me to stop tipping though, you're probably have to stop typing like a Victorian street poet. But yes, you're right, it's about time I stop taking the piss here. I will follow this topic and if I find something worth mentioning, I will sure give you a little quote. 

How many of his comments have I liked? More than five? I doubt it, frankly. Still doesn't seem like ganging up, I mean, it's just clocking that little green-and-white button to express passive support.

 

I have a way of speaking, and I am proud of it; I will not have you shame me into adopting anything else, especially when English is not even my native tongue. I hoped you of all people could understand that conundrum, something many bilingual people face, but alas. Come to think of it, a Victorian street poet is more of a compliment than an insult, thank you. I will feverishly look forward to your first contribution to hold some water. I'd also address 'Frog man' and his post above, but I can't be giving off the appearance of being in the same street gang as him.

 

The Victorian Street Poets, throwing up gang signs and waxing about the good old Georgian era! Watch out for when we drop our first book of rhymes, good sirs!

[MCH-MONOH7DRAT3]

LMAO , relax people no matter of political side they still want to F""K you

[Stardroid]

Just now, Golem25 said:

How many of his comments have I liked? More than five? I doubt it, frankly. Still doesn't seem like ganging up, I mean, it's just clocking that little green-and-white button to express passive support.

 

I have a way of speaking, and I am proud of it; I will not have you shame me into adopting anything else, especially when English is not even my native tongue. I hoped you of all people could understand that conundrum, something many bilingual people face, but alas. Come to think of it, a Victorian street poet is more of a compliment than an insult, thank you. I will feverishly look forward to your first contribution to hold some water. I'd also address 'Frog man' and his post above, but I can't be giving off the appearance of being in the same street gang as him.

 

The Victorian Street Poets, throwing up gang signs and waxing about the good old Georgian era! Watch out for when we drop our first book of rhymes, good sirs!

 

You're trolling at this stage right? Proud of the way you speak? Won't be yielded into something else? Come on, say sike right now. But alright, we really are just going back and forth having a dig at each other now. Let's say on topic then. just give me anything to address and I will. 

[Golem25]

8 minutes ago, Stardroid said:

An Ad Hominem is a personal insult without any context mate. I asked you why you write everything out as if it's a poem. You don't even know what an Ad Hominem is lmao. 

 

You can check the data here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_video_games (well sourced of course) not just your average "ItS a WiKiPediA ArticLe"

I see AAA games listed here, including the popular-with-ciswomen Dragon Age Inquisition and Assassins' Creed - but even there they are a minority. Furthermore, 98% of players on sports games (triple A) are listed as men. Women only seem to have the upper hand in games like Candy Crush and 'Family simulators' (The Sims I imagine, but PS Plus must have knocked that down a bit with how well this community shaved tens of hours of the Platinum).

 

Not a bad thing of course, my girlfriend (female) loves the Sims and Animal Crossing and I wholeheartedly support her in that. Anyway, this isn't an argument I'm really interested in having. That other dude had to drop the word 'pandering' which kicked this particular debate off, but it holds no water; there is plenty of diversity in gaming characters, and any 'pandering' to males in the triple A industry can be explained away by the playerbase being mostly male. Games like Inquisition and Ubi's latest abortions that are popular with women allow players to pick female protagonists too, so I'm not seeing the issue at all.

 

3 minutes ago, Stardroid said:

 

You're trolling at this stage right? Proud of the way you speak? Won't be yielded into something else? Come on, say sike right now. But alright, we really are just going back and forth having a dig at each other now. Let's say on topic then. just give me anything to address and I will. 

 

Yes, I am proud of the way I can converse in English. Is it misplaced? Is refusing to change the way I speak, which is well within the rules and guidelines of the board, such a terrible thing? Why is this such a strange thought to you?

 

I'll leave the picking to you, because you seem to take offense to whatever I put out in the first place. I mean, addressing it doesn't seem to be your forte, but the itch to do so seems to be there regardless.

 

Also, I see no fewer than fourteen members currently browsing this thread; hi everyone!

Edited May 4, 2020 by Golem25

[Stardroid]

1 minute ago, Golem25 said:

I see AAA games listed here, including the popular-with-ciswomen Dragon Age Inquisition and Assassins' Creed - but even there they are a minority. Furthermore, 98% of players on sports games (triple A) are listed as men. Women only seem to have the upper hand in games like Candy Crush and 'Family simulators' (The Sims I imagine, but PS Plus must have knocked that down a bit with how well this community shaved tens of hours of the Platinum).

 

Not a bad thing of course, my girlfriend (female) loves the Sims and Animal Crossing and I wholeheartedly support her in that. Anyway, this isn't an argument I'm really interested in having. That other dude had to drop the word 'pandering' which kicked this particular debate off, but it holds no water; there is plenty of diversity in gaming characters, and any 'pandering' to males in the triple A industry can be explained away by the playerbase being mostly male. Games like Inquisition and Ubi's latest abortions that are popular with women allow players to pick female protagonists too, so I'm not seeing the issue at all.

 

 

Yes, I am proud of the way I can converse in English. Is it misplaced? Is refusing to change the way I speak, which is well within the rules and guidelines of the board, such a terrible thing? Why is this such a strange thought to you?

 

I'll leave the picking to you, because you seem to take offense to whatever I put out in the first place. I mean, addressing it doesn't seem to be your forte, but the itch to do so seems to be there regardless.

 

Also, I see no fewer than fourteen members currently browsing this thread; hi everyone!

His argument was that 90 percent of gamers are men, that isn't true. Not only this, but according to the Survey, women make up a higher percentage of putting emphasis on more story driven games. So, relevant to the discussion at hand and completely putting into contradiction the industry will cater to us. So in a way, it would make sense for a game like TLoU to pander to women, the data shows they are most into this kind of thing.