TLOU 2 spoilers galore and also Ghost of Tsushima delayed

[HaserPL]

22 hours ago, DaivRules said:

I'm reminded of all the comments of people shitting on Death Stranding when they saw gameplay footage online and screaming that it was just a walking sim, but when people who actually played it explained it, it was overwhelmingly positive.

 

I don't doubt this leak will be similar. Criticizing things is easy and gets attention. It's basically a zero effort activity, and it's really easy when you can just parrot the same things other people say.

 

As for a June 19th release date, I can see that happening. More stores have adapted the drive up/carry out business model and many states are opening more non-essential businesses with restrictions. The hardest part was probably finding printing capacity for the physical copies and coordinating the logistics of getting them to retailers. June is plenty of time to arrange all that.

The difference is, when it comes to Death Stranding there are two major groups of people who played it. They either loved it or hated it, there's not many people left In between. And DS wasnt a sequel to one of the most beloved games from its generation. But TLOU 2 is. And to me as a fan who even asked one of my best friends irl to come to my grave and tell me the story of Tlou2 in case I die before its release, after being spoiled by some dicks and seeing leaks for myself, I want nothing to do with this game.

[panikooooos]

Druckmann posted this as an instagram story 14 hours ago ? Anyone else getting Battlefield V vibes? "Don't buy our games bigots" *sales tank* ?

Spoiler

 

[TJ_Solo]

4 minutes ago, HaserPL said:

The difference is, when it comes to Death Stranding there are two major groups of people who played it. They either loved it or hated it, there's not many people left In between. And DS wasnt a sequel to one of the most beloved games from its generation. But TLOU 2 is. And to me as a fan who even asked one of my best friends irl to come to my grave and tell me the story of Tlou2 in case I die before its release, after being spoiled by some dicks and seeing leaks for myself, I want nothing to do with this game.

 

Looks the same to me. A bunch of people taking hard stands against things they either don't understand and/or don't like based on partial information and not the entire experience.

The ones that did play DS ended up mixed opinions, just like any game. Some liked it. Some loved it. Some hated it. Some didn't like it. Some have no strong feelings either way. At least they played it and judged the game for themselves. People that want to be part of the conversation but are not going to play the game just need attention. Which is pretty darn sad.

2 minutes ago, panikooooos said:

Druckmann posted this as an instagram story 14 hours ago ? Anyone else getting Battlefield V vibes? "Don't buy our games bigots" *sales tank* ?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Is he lying? 
The truth hurts for a reason.

"vote with your wallet" isn't an insult. It is your entire function as a consumer. 

[panikooooos]

7 minutes ago, TJ_Solo said:

Is he lying? 
The truth hurts for a reason.

"vote with your wallet" isn't an insult. It is your entire function as a consumer. 

What "truth" bro lmao, all I see is a guy who's soon to become unemployed making moral statements ? 

[Solid-Fisch]

1 hour ago, panikooooos said:

Druckmann posted this as an instagram story 14 hours ago  Anyone else getting Battlefield V vibes? "Don't buy our games bigots" *sales tank* 

  Hide contents

 

Kurt Cobain would have thrown his full pissed shoe into sneaky snake Druckmann's face.  

[Seraphim_Rez]

3 hours ago, Gladiator995 said:

I remember when Marvel tried that pandering to the minority shit by changing the characters that people loved into ethnic minorities/transgenders etc and that ended with their sales comics wise plummeting. When they learned their lesson they returned everything back to normal and now things seem to be back to normal again. 

 

But comic books have done that for decades.
Jane Foster became Thor back in like '78.
Miguel O’Hara debuted as Spider-Man in '92

John Stewart was The Green Lantern for people that grew up watching Justice League.
Superhero origins have also changed many times.

The X-men was inspired by the Civil RIghts movement. It's about characters that are demonized because they are "other"
Comic also covered politics a lot.
There were comics about 9/11.
Comics about drug use.
A famous comic about Superman if he was raised as a fighter for the Soviet Union and the US ends up on the verge of collapse in '78.

[Gladiator995]

3 hours ago, Seraphim_Rez said:

 

But comic books have done that for decades.
Jane Foster became Thor back in like '78.
Miguel O’Hara debuted as Spider-Man in '92

John Stewart was The Green Lantern for people that grew up watching Justice League.
Superhero origins have also changed many times.

The X-men was inspired by the Civil RIghts movement. It's about characters that are demonized because they are "other"
Comic also covered politics a lot.
There were comics about 9/11.
Comics about drug use.
A famous comic about Superman if he was raised as a fighter for the Soviet Union and the US ends up on the verge of collapse in '78.

Jane Foster became Thor as part of a what if storyline, she didn’t replace Thor. When she did replace Thor a few years ago, she just showed up on the moon somehow and picked up his hammer and became Thor which made no sense at all.

Miguel is the Spider-Man of 2099 and wasn’t forced in to replace Peter Parker.

John Stewart is an additional Green Lantern that works alongside Hal as well as Guy Gardner and Kyle Rayner and was actually fleshed out in his storylines. He is a great character and wasn’t pushed to pander to people.

Comics are used to convey and explore a wide amount of topics which is perfectly understandable but people didn’t like the changes that were made because they felt Marvel just shoehorned in these replacements merely to pander I.e Captain America became replaced by the Falcon who was black, Captain Britain became a Muslim, The hulk was replaced by Amadeus Cho who is of Asian descent and also who can forget when Captain America became an agent of Hydra (albeit it being a doppelgänger, not actually him) These decisions were then reversed after a while due to poor sales and the outlash from comic book readers. There is such a thing as comics exploring a topic and then there’s something else when comic book companies force pandering changes upon readers and tell them to just accept it; that’s where these complaints come from and that’s why there’s outcry from fans towards this sequel; because two beloved characters are being replaced by a character merely to push an agenda by the head of the studio. 

 

[Seraphim_Rez]

31 minutes ago, Gladiator995 said:

Jane Foster became Thor as part of a what if storyline, she didn’t replace Thor. When she did replace Thor a few years ago, she just showed up on the moon somehow and picked up his hammer and became Thor which made no sense at all.

Miguel is the Spider-Man of 2099 and wasn’t forced in to replace Peter Parker.

John Stewart is an additional Green Lantern that works alongside Hal as well as Guy Gardner and Kyle Rayner and was actually fleshed out in his storylines. He is a great character and wasn’t pushed to pander to people.

Comics are used to convey and explore a wide amount of topics which is perfectly understandable but people didn’t like the changes that were made because they felt Marvel just shoehorned in these replacements merely to pander I.e Captain America became replaced by the Falcon who was black, Captain Britain became a Muslim, The hulk was replaced by Amadeus Cho who is of Asian descent and also who can forget when Captain America became an agent of Hydra (albeit it being a doppelgänger, not actually him) These decisions were then reversed after a while due to poor sales and the outlash from comic book readers. There is such a thing as comics exploring a topic and then there’s something else when comic book companies force pandering changes upon readers and tell them to just accept it; that’s where these complaints come from and that’s why there’s outcry from fans towards this sequel; because two beloved characters are being replaced by a character merely to push an agenda by the head of the studio. 

 

Amadeus Cho didn't just appear out of nowhere. He was saved by Bruce Banner and looks up to him. And in turn saved his life by removing the Hulk from Bruce's body and into his own. The original and new Hulk exist in the same universe.

 

Character replacements has also happened before, when the original is old, retired, or dead.
There is more than one Flash with Wally replacing Barry because he died. Terry replacing Bruce due to age. There are multiple Robin. Jason Todd became Robin after DC decided to kill the previous one.

Did people get THIS upset over that? Did they resurrect or reboot them so that these replacements never happened? Did they have just as much outrage when a previous Robin came back as a villain?

It's funny how people call it pandering because a character is replaced and the new character just happens to be a minority and not when they killed a character to replace them with a younger edgier version or for shock value.

This thread is about an video game, so it should just end here

Edited April 29, 2020 by Seraphim_Rez

[Gladiator995]

52 minutes ago, Seraphim_Rez said:

Amadeus Cho didn't just appear out of nowhere. He was saved by Bruce Banner and looks up to him. And in turn saved his life by removing the Hulk from Bruce's body and into his own. The original and new Hulk exist in the same universe.

 

Character replacements has also happened before, when the original is old, retired, or dead.
There is more than one Flash with Wally replacing Barry because he died. Terry replacing Bruce due to age. There are multiple Robin. Jason Todd became Robin after DC decided to kill the previous one.

Did people get THIS upset over that? Did they resurrect or reboot them so that these replacements never happened? Did they have just as much outrage when a previous Robin came back as a villain?

It's funny how people call it pandering because a character is replaced and the new character just happens to be a minority and not when they killed a character to replace them with a younger edgier version or for shock value.

This thread is about an video game, so it should just end here

People did vote to have Jason “killed” by the Joker during the Death in the Family storyline so that might allude to how people felt about the character! People got angry at how this all seemed to happen all at once when Marvel made the changes they did and when people complained about the changes; they were labelled as all the usual isms in an effort to squash any of their arguments which seems to be the case here yet again. 
Again, Terry replaced Bruce in the future version of Gotham, not during his younger years which is completely different to the examples that happened with Marvel. Barry also sacrificed himself during the Crisis on Infinite Worlds event and so Wally did  take up the mantle seeing as he was Kid Flash at the time; not just brought straight in. Amadeus Cho was also included in the changes as he was of Asian descent and was done so to appeal to readers of that ethnicity. 

 

Coming back to the main topic of discussion, Unfortunately as myself and many others have picked up, this clearly is pandering as referenced by the articles that have shown that the head of Naughty Dog made its female characters more masculine to appeal to transgender individuals; therefore pandering to a specific audience, I’m not sure if you have read these articles or if you’re just preferring not to read them to reinforce your “opinion” but I would definitely suggest giving them a read, they’re been quoted in this thread a number of times.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Gladiator995

[Seraphim_Rez]

4 minutes ago, Gladiator995 said:

People did vote to have Jason “killed” by the Joker during the Death in the Family storyline so that might allude to how people felt about the character! People got angry at how this all seemed to happen all at once when Marvel made the changes they did and when people complained about the changes; they were labelled as all the usual isms in an effort to squash any of their arguments which seems to be the case here yet again. 
Again, Terry replaced Bruce in the future version of Gotham, not during his younger years which is completely different to the examples that happened with Marvel. Barry also sacrificed himself during the Crisis on Infinite Worlds event and so Wally did  take up the mantle seeing as he was Kid Flash at the time; not just brought straight in. Amadeus Cho was also included in the changes as he was of Asian descent and was done so to appeal to readers of that ethnicity. 

 

Coming back to the main topic of discussion, Unfortunately as myself and many others have picked up, this clearly is pandering as referenced by the articles that have shown that the head of Naughty Dog made its female characters more masculine to appeal to transgender individuals; therefore pandering to a specific audience, I’m not sure if you have read these articles or if you’re just preferring not to read them to reinforce your “opinion” but I would definitely suggest giving them a read, they’re been quoted in this thread a number of times.

 

Nice assumption.

Pandering has always happened. A product has always pandered to a group of people in some way. Whether that is an age group, gender, or race.
When you look at old videogame ads full of scantily clad women for example, that is pandering to straight men.
When you see a game with the color pink and with cute animal characters, that it pandering to young girls.
So if a product wants to pander to a different group, I don't see the issue. It's a company's choice is it not?

 

Having "female characters more masculine to appeal to transgender individuals" isn't really that different when developers made female characters with impossible chest sizes to appeal to men.
So is there really an issue here? The game is appealing to different people and if that doesn't include you, sucks to suck. No one is making you buy it.

Is it wrong for people of different gender identities or ethnicity to have something for them in a major game?

[Gladiator995]

20 minutes ago, Seraphim_Rez said:

 

Nice assumption.

Pandering has always happened. A product has always pandered to a group of people in some way. Whether that is an age group, gender, or race.
When you look at old videogame ads full of scantily clad women for example, that is pandering to straight men.
When you see a game with the color pink and with cute animal characters, that it pandering to young girls.
So if a product wants to pander to a different group, I don't see the issue. It's a company's choice is it not?

 

Having "female characters more masculine to appeal to transgender individuals" isn't really that different when developers made female characters with impossible chest sizes to appeal to men.
So is there really an issue here? The game is appealing to different people and if that doesn't include you, sucks to suck. No one is making you buy it.

Is it wrong for people of different gender identities or ethnicity to have something for them in a major game?

Not an assumption, already proved with the articles aforementioned but again you can continue to ignore them if you like :-)
When it alienates the majority of the previous game’s audience, I’d say that is highly a cause for concern. It’s basically giving a middle finger to a game’s loyal fans which is evident considering the amount of individuals on twitter etc that have stated they have cancelled their pre-orders. Referring to “impossible chest sizes” can you give an example of where this has happened? Women have big and small boobs, there’s no such thing as impossible, try going outside some time and you’ll see what I mean. 
 

It’s not wrong but when said gender identity causes the death of two main characters that are beloved by many, I’d say that gives said gender identity a bad representation no? Either way, the sales of the game will reflect the general public’s perception of the game, we’ll just have to wait and see. If the game bombs like when many other games have been made to pander to a minority have I.e. Battlefield V etc, let’s see if Neil Druckmann still believes his agenda was correct to push in a video game. But of course, you’re more than welcome to buy the game despite all the warnings, like a good little consumer

 

It seems to me like certain triple AAA studios could literally shit out a game, tell everyone it is amazing and people would believe them straight away and buy the game on command like loyal sheep instead of looking into the game first. Seems to be another trend here. Especially when a lot of the studio’s employees also feel the game is terrible.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Gladiator995

[Seraphim_Rez]

I meant your assumption of me not the articles. And there is no need for passive aggressiveness.

 

And again, if a writer wants to push an agenda in his game, that is well within his right. It's called creative freedom no?
Whether they want to please or push away existing fans, that's their choice too.

If you don't like it, again, just don't buy it. That's your right as a customer.

[Gladiator995]

7 minutes ago, Seraphim_Rez said:

I meant your assumption of me not the articles. And there is no need for passive aggressiveness.

 

And again, if a writer wants to push an agenda in his game, that is well within his right. It's called creative freedom no?
Whether they want to please or push away existing fans, that's their choice too.

If you don't like it, again, just don't buy it. That's your right as a customer.

I assumed you read them then and saw the comments made by the employees of Naughty Dog then that reflect the general attitudes of people’s reactions to these leaks? You’ve ignored the majority of my points, I’m still waiting for you to give me an example of impossible chest sizes? It’s an agenda that is clearly backfiring, it didn’t work in Mass Effect Andromeda, it didn’t work in Battlefield V and from the clear looks of things, it won’t work here. I’m not going to buy it but that doesn’t mean I can’t discuss the issue like what everyone else is doing and will continue to do so.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Gladiator995

[Fubuki]

7 hours ago, panikooooos said:

Druckmann posted this as an instagram story 14 hours ago ? Anyone else getting Battlefield V vibes? "Don't buy our games bigots" *sales tank* ?

  Hide contents

 

Go woke, go broke

[BloodyRutz]

1 hour ago, Gladiator995 said:

Not an assumption, already proved with the articles aforementioned but again you can continue to ignore them if you like :-)
When it alienates the majority of the previous game’s audience, I’d say that is highly a cause for concern. It’s basically giving a middle finger to a game’s loyal fans which is evident considering the amount of individuals on twitter etc that have stated they have cancelled their pre-orders. Referring to “impossible chest sizes” can you give an example of where this has happened? Women have big and small boobs, there’s no such thing as impossible, try going outside some time and you’ll see what I mean. 
 

It’s not wrong but when said gender identity causes the death of two main characters that are beloved by many, I’d say that gives said gender identity a bad representation no? Either way, the sales of the game will reflect the general public’s perception of the game, we’ll just have to wait and see. If the game bombs like when many other games have been made to pander to a minority have I.e. Battlefield V etc, let’s see if Neil Druckmann still believes his agenda was correct to push in a video game. But of course, you’re more than welcome to buy the game despite all the warnings, like a good little consumer

 

It seems to me like certain triple AAA studios could literally shit out a game, tell everyone it is amazing and people would believe them straight away and buy the game on command like loyal sheep instead of looking into the game first. Seems to be another trend here. Especially when a lot of the studio’s employees also feel the game is terrible.

 

The game is not even out, yet you're already calling people sheep. According to your logic, I should hire a private investigator to look into the internal company's affairs every time I would like to buy a game. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by BloodyRutz

[Gladiator995]

Just now, BloodyRutz said:

 

The game is not even out, yet you're already calling people sheep. According to you logic I should hire private investigator to look into internal company's affairs every time I would like to buy a game. 

When people are choosing to ignore the facts and issues and just buy it anyway, I’d say that’s a very sheepish mentality. The game isn’t out yet the majority of the plot has been released for everyone to see, you don’t need a private investigator for that ?

[Seraphim_Rez]

Just now, Gladiator995 said:

I assumed you read them then and saw the comments made by the employees of Naughty Dog then that reflect the general attitudes of people’s reactions to these leaks? You’ve ignored the majority of my points, I’m still waiting for you to give me an example of impossible chest sizes? It’s an agenda that is clearly backfiring, it didn’t work in Mass Effect Andromeda, it didn’t work in Battlefield V from the clear looks of things, it won’t work here. I’m not going to buy it but that doesn’t mean I can’t discuss the issue like what everyone else is doing and will continue to do so.

 

Mass Effect Andromeda had a really messy development cycle. Pandering to whoever wasn't the cause of the game's downfall. Next you'll tell me Anthem failed for the same reason.

 

Impossible boob sizes without surgery? Here, an IF game. Don't act like you've never seen a game with them. It's in a lot of anime game. What I find funny is that I see console games with girls with bigger boobs then in eroge like Rance.

 

 

Also, "I'm not going to buy it"
Don't people usually whine about "SJWs who weren't gonna buy the game anyway?"

And here you are, whining about a game you aren't gonna buy anyway.

 

 

[BloodyRutz]

52 minutes ago, Gladiator995 said:

When people are choosing to ignore the facts and issues and just buy it anyway, I’d say that’s a very sheepish mentality. The game isn’t out yet the majority of the plot has been released for everyone to see, you don’t need a private investigator for that 

 

Did you consider that maybe something that is an issue for you could not be an issue for others? Also, why would I spoil a story-driven game before buying it? Since my girlfriend's gaming taste is different from mine, she looked into the spoilers for me without spoiling it, so I can understand all the fuzz here. She knows the story of the original game and doesn't understand what's the big deal after looking up the spoilers.

Edited April 29, 2020 by BloodyRutz

[Gladiator995]

Just now, Seraphim_Rez said:

 

Mass Effect Andromeda had a really messy development cycle. Pandering to whoever wasn't the cause of the game's downfall. Next you'll tell me Anthem failed for the same reason.

 

Impossible boob sizes without surgery? Here, an IF game. Don't act like you've never seen a game with them. It's in a lot of anime game. What I find funny is that I see console games with girls with bigger boobs then in eroge like Rance.

 

 

Also, "I'm not going to buy it"
Don't people usually whine about "SJWs who weren't gonna buy the game anyway?"

And here you are, whining about a game you aren't gonna buy anyway.

 

 

Plenty of women have breast sizes like that that aren’t due to surgery, terrible example ? People are complaining about studios clearly pandering to SJW’s who aren’t going to buy the game, you’re absolutely right there. Discussing the issues are very different to whining.

[Fubuki]

5 minutes ago, BloodyRutz said:

 

The game is not even out, yet you're already calling people sheep. According to you logic I should hire private investigator to look into internal company's affairs every time I would like to buy a game. 

The game already got fucking leaked. Why do you think theres so many people pissed off. People don't want this "sequel" they want a continuation of the last game. Not a forced agenda. Which from the leaks is what it looks like.

[Gladiator995]

Just now, BloodyRutz said:

 

Did you consider that maybe something that is an issue for you could not be an issue for others? Also why would I spoil a story driven game before buying it? Since my girlfriend's gaming taste is different from mine, she looked into the spoilers for me without spoiling it, so I can understand all the fuzz here. She knows the story of the original game and doesn't understand what's the big deal after looking up the spoilers.

You don’t know why people are complaining as you don’t know the actual information, that says it all really. Using your first sentence, you don’t seem to understand why it’s an issue for others, maybe you should look at other people’s arguments about it.

[Seraphim_Rez]

2 minutes ago, Gladiator995 said:

Plenty of women have breast sizes like that that aren’t due to surgery, terrible example  People are complaining about studios clearly pandering to SJW’s who aren’t going to buy the game, you’re absolutely right there. Discussing the issues are very different to whining.

 

Do some women have a chest of that size naturally? Yes, but not with a body that is otherwise very petite.

[BloodyRutz]

46 minutes ago, The Titan said:

The game already got fucking leaked. Why do you think theres so many people pissed off. People don't want this "sequel" they want a continuation of the last game. Not a forced agenda. Which from the leaks is what it looks like.

 

Since you're starting to slowly spoiling it for me, I'm leaving this thread. Also, I don't want the continuation of the last game. The game ended perfectly.

Edited April 29, 2020 by BloodyRutz

[Gladiator995]

Just now, BloodyRutz said:

 

Since you're starting to slowly spoiling it for me, I'm leaving this thread. Also I don't want the continuation of the last game. The game ended perfectly.

There is no mention in their post about the spoilers, what are you talking about? Do yourself a favour and don’t buy the second one, don’t want it all spoiled for you.

[BloodyRutz]

2 hours ago, Gladiator995 said:

You don’t know why people are complaining as you don’t know the actual information, that says it all really. Using your first sentence, you don’t seem to understand why it’s an issue for others, maybe you should look at other people’s arguments about it.

 

If the issue is that it's not the continuation of the original game, that is something I don't expect. For me, the game ended perfectly. If that's not the case, I still need to leave this thread since I didn't know this, and I don't want to spoil the rest. I'm sorry I'm out like this.

Edited April 29, 2020 by BloodyRutz