Sony has found the TLOU2 leaker, saying they were not affiliated with either Sony or Naughty Dog

[PostGameBlues]

You know what sucks most about this apart from a lot of the fans being disappointed (and for the most part rightfully so), is the fact that this whole ordeal has only done to intensify homophobia and transphobia within the gaming community. This is why I don't like any writer that write their characters based on who they feel the characters SHOULD be rather than who the characters HAPPEN to be. I don't want to speak for everyone but honestly I thought that Ellie being a lesbian was handled well in the first game. It made sense with how they laid that story out in the Left Behind DLC. Rather than making Ellie's identity solely revolve around being a lesbian, they made it so that she was a survivor teenager that just happened to be lesbian. It's the damn post-apocalypse, who gives a shit who you love? 

 

I think that the problem with the entertainment media's push for diversity nowadays is that they focus so much more on inclusion as a means of filling a quota rather than actually putting effort to make sure that the characters that are supposed to bring in that diversity are actually written just as well as the other characters. Obviously, we don't know everything about Abby other than what we've seen from the leaks. But the way they've integrated her in the story of TLOU 2, again based on the leaks, is just mind boggling. I think the reason why this story is getting the hate that its getting is because Abby being Trans has been implemented in a way that makes it look like forced diversity. That and the fact that even when you take away the 'SJW crap' people are screaming about, the story still looks like a sloppy bizzare fan fiction...

 

I think this is probably the last time I visit this thread though, since it's just become out of hand at this point. 

[Darling Baphomet]

1 minute ago, PostGameBlues said:

You know what sucks most about this apart from a lot of the fans being disappointed (and for the most part rightfully so), is the fact that this whole ordeal has only done to intensify homophobia and transphobia within the gaming community. This is why I don't like any writer that write their characters based on who they feel the characters SHOULD be rather than who the characters HAPPEN to be.

 

If LGBT people being represented is enough to intensify hatred, then... I don't think that representation is the problem. If anything, said representation only serves to highlight pre-existing biases that people have, because they're not *used* to seeing people from demographics that offend them. So, in that regards, aggressive representation is a net gain, because even if it causes initial outcry, it normalizes LGBT people in media.

 

Look at it this way: let's say you have a game where you have a super proud lesbian, does steroids, kills men for shits and giggles. That's really fucking intense. Definitely going overboard. But by moving the goalposts so that people are getting enraged at this obvious caricature of a person, you, in turn, make the less outrageous, but no less lesbian characters be more easily accepted. Even in the real world, excessive action or people going overboard can be good, because it moves the battle towards the fringe, so that less extreme people are just accepted by default. Not a perfect example, but transphobes often disguise themselves as LGB allies, for instance, because they consider trans people the bigger threat.

[TJ_Solo]

Quote

This is why I don't like any writer that write their characters based on who they feel the characters SHOULD be rather than who the characters HAPPEN to be.

 

It's THEIR characters. The two concepts are one in the same.

With the writer deciding what a character SHOULD be then there's no way for a character to HAPPEN to be anything.

[abhinandhan22]

Oof i did not click on this thread for the past few days because I knew it would be extremely crazy based on what I saw in the past few threads. All i have to say is that the dude is definetely not a hero. I think its crazy that some people think he's a hero for saving them 60 bucks. If you are that concerned about your 60 dollars,maybe you shouldn't be pre ordering games in the first place. All this supposed sjw stuff would have been out on day 1 of the release date when actual reviews were out. If you were a fan who's not getting the game because of the leaks(which honestly cannot provide as much context as playing the damn game), I don't understand that mentality too. I personally want to see everything, good or bad from a franchise that I am a fan of. Personally more excited for the game because of the leaks as I generally like going into any entertainment that is divisive vs widely loved just to see which side I fall on. 

[Darling Baphomet]

Ultimately, when you're telling a story, you can either conform to what people want to see and make a game based entirely on sensibility, or you can challenge your audience's perception of the world and tolerance for subjects, and many people do not react well to being challenged.

[Slava]

 

 

And a twitter thread with some details

 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Alderriz

[Azaan60]

45 minutes ago, Alderriz said:

 

 

And a twitter thread with some details

 

 

 

And there it is. 

 

So not only was the leaker not an employee or ex-employee from ND. But they literally hacked into ND's servers using a stolen AWS key. 

 

A lot of people in this thread look like complete idiots now. 

[abhinandhan22]

8 minutes ago, Azaan60 said:

 

And there it is. 

 

So not only was the leaker not an employee or ex-employee from ND. But they literally hacked into ND's servers using a stolen AWS key. 

 

A lot of people in this thread look like complete idiots now. 

Lmao the GIF beside your trophy card is fucking perfect as a response 

[POEman553]

10 minutes ago, Azaan60 said:

 

And there it is. 

 

So not only was the leaker not an employee or ex-employee from ND. But they literally hacked into ND's servers using a stolen AWS key. 

 

A lot of people in this thread look like complete idiots now. 

 

Also, someone at Naughty Dog or Sony should get fired for having very lax security and cloud implementation. If Sony is smart, they would change all of their cloud related passwords for their developers or do a thorough evaluation of their security measures. Naughty Dog may not be the only developer with this setup if all of Sony's developers are set up the same.

 

The big question is how they got the stolen AWS key in the first place.

[ziggypossum]

Jason Schreier - "I have a good idea of what happened"

 

So nothing is confirmed at this point. I don't trust him.

[abhinandhan22]

19 minutes ago, ziggypossum said:

Jason Schreier - "I have a good idea of what happened"

 

So nothing is confirmed at this point. I don't trust him.

I don't generally agree with Schreier's opinions but the man has a pretty good track record when it comes to exposes etc and theres another twitter using explaining in detail what went down according to his sources. But still not as concrete as a sony statement i guess. We just have to continue waiting. 

[EcoShifter]

5 hours ago, PostGameBlues said:

You know what sucks most about this apart from a lot of the fans being disappointed (and for the most part rightfully so), is the fact that this whole ordeal has only done to intensify homophobia and transphobia within the gaming community. This is why I don't like any writer that write their characters based on who they feel the characters SHOULD be rather than who the characters HAPPEN to be. I don't want to speak for everyone but honestly I thought that Ellie being a lesbian was handled well in the first game. It made sense with how they laid that story out in the Left Behind DLC. Rather than making Ellie's identity solely revolve around being a lesbian, they made it so that she was a survivor teenager that just happened to be lesbian. It's the damn post-apocalypse, who gives a shit who you love? 

 

I think this is probably the last time I visit this thread though, since it's just become out of hand at this point. 

 

I disagree. I thought they handled validating her kiss well. She felt something for the character purely due to her emotional connection with the friend-character, Riley. (If Sam, a boy she met later on in the story, swapped places with the girl, Ellie would have kissed him too.) I think your last line works against the argument of supporting her sexuality. Being in the "damn post-apocalypse" shouldn't narrow her sexuality down to strictly liking females, especially one that doesn't have her in an environment where she's surrounded and thus conditioned/pressured to only like females. She's in your standard post-apocalypse. The game is conveniently set up to have Ellie, apparently, not even so much as see or interact with males her age outside one boy named Sam. Then, predictably, the boy is killed off to cut off ties romantic development. I don't think the lesbian arc was handled well writing wise, as the game isn't doing a good job at justifying why she . . . has . . . to be lesbian over anything else. So given the way the girl she kissed was handled, and Ellie's story so far, Ellie should at the very least be bisexual. I will be playing close attention to see if Neil attempted to strengthen this weak development by exploring her previous relationships between the The Last of Us and The Last of Us Part II/pre-The Last of Us Part II.

 

I vastly prefer the way Telltale handed it in their apocalypse game—The Walking Dead (The Final Season)—with their hardened survivor female protagonist, who came first btw. Not only do they show how Clementine and her partner develop feelings for each other romantically, but Telltale provided both the route/choice of male partner and female partner, not just female. This means Clementine is not canonically (or forced as a) lesbian.

 

5 hours ago, TJ_Solo said:

It's THEIR characters. The two concepts are one in the same.

With the writer deciding what a character SHOULD be then there's no way for a character to HAPPEN to be anything.

 

So far, this has been the only thread where I've disagreed with you on multiple things. Regarding this quote, you're half correct. Characters can be created specifically with a personal agenda in mind. Recurring characters can also see radical shifts that goes against or makes little sense to the writing established for them prior. There's already cases of this, and it's honestly that simple.

Edited May 3, 2020 by EcoShifter

[Seraphim_Rez]

15 minutes ago, EcoShifter said:

 

I disagree. I thought they handled validating her kiss well. She felt something for the character purely due to her emotional connection with the friend-character, Riley. (If Sam, a boy she met later on in the story, swapped places with the girl, Ellie would have kissed him too.) I think your last line works against the argument of supporting her sexuality. Being in the "damn post-apocalypse" shouldn't narrow her sexuality down to strictly liking females, especially one that doesn't have her in an environment where she's surrounded and thus conditioned/pressured to only like females. She's in your standard post-apocalypse. The game is conveniently set up to have Ellie, apparently, not even so much as see or interact with males her age outside one boy named Sam. Then, predictably, the boy is killed off to cut off ties romantic development. I don't think the lesbian arc was handled well writing wise, as the game isn't doing a good job at justifying why she . . . has . . . to be lesbian over anything else. So given the way the girl she kissed was handled, and Ellie's story so far, Ellie should at the very least be bisexual. I will be playing close attention to see if Neil attempted to strengthen this weak development by exploring her previous relationships between the The Last of Us and The Last of Us Part II/pre-The Last of Us Part II.

 

I vastly prefer the way Telltale handed it in their apocalypse game—The Walking Dead (The Final Season)—with their hardened survivor female protagonist, who came first btw. Not only do they show how Clementine and her partner develop feelings for each other romantically, but Telltale provided both the route/choice of male partner and female partner, not just female. This means Clementine is not canonically (or forced as a) lesbian.

 

 

So far, this has been the only thread where I've disagreed with you on multiple things. Regarding this quote, you're half correct. Characters can be created specifically with an agenda in mind. Recurring characters can also see radical shifts that goes against the writing established for them prior. There's already cases of this, and it's honestly that simple.

 

The world going post apocalyptic isn't suddenly going to start making gay people straight or bi. I don't see how that makes sense. If you are woman who is not wired to like men or a man to like woman, is the existence of deadly infected zombie like creatures gonna change that for you?
Do we have to justify why someone is a certain sexuality? Guess we need to start justifying why someone is straight then every time we see a hetero couple in game.
"Oh he's making out with that girl, but the game never explained he was straight before or why."
Characters can be gay just because just like how straight characters are straight just because and people don't question it.

 

Edit: With all this whining about SJWs, I should go into threads about Tom Clancy and Call of Duty games and spend all day whining about the military industrial complex, gun rights, right wing agenda.

 

Bonus question: How many people here know where Ellie's trademark knife came from?

Edited May 3, 2020 by Seraphim_Rez

[wackt1]

21 minutes ago, Seraphim_Rez said:

 

The world going post apocalyptic isn't suddenly going to start making gay people straight or bi. I don't see how that makes sense. If you are woman who is not wired to like men or a man to like woman, is the existence of deadly infected zombie like creatures gonna change that for you?
Do we have to justify why someone is a certain sexuality? Guess we need to start justifying why someone is straight then every time we see a hetero couple in game.
"Oh he's making out with that girl, but the game never explained he was straight before or why."
Characters can be gay just because just like how straight characters are straight just because and people don't question it.

 

Edit: With all this whining about SJWs, I should go into threads about Tom Clancy and Call of Duty games and spend all day whining about the military industrial complex, gun rights, right wing agenda.

 

Bonus question: How many people here know where Ellie's trademark knife came from?

Oh sure, and it isn't about Neil Drunkman being best friends with anita sarkeesian and trying to suck her psuedo-dick in trying to show how progressive he is by shoving out an actual woman out of Naughty Dog in becoming head creative director of Naughty Dog to prove his worth to Anita 

Edited May 3, 2020 by wackt1

[EcoShifter]

1 hour ago, Seraphim_Rez said:

The world going post apocalyptic isn't suddenly going to start making gay people straight or bi. I don't see how that makes sense. If you are woman who is not wired to like men or a man to like woman, is the existence of deadly infected zombie like creatures gonna change that for you?

 

It was never established that Ellie is gay pre-TLOUP2, so that first point makes no sense. Kissing the girl doesn't make her gay automatically. The writing, which is obviously important in a story driven game, one that also especially takes character development seriously, never does enough to support your "Ellie is gay" and "infected zombies are not going to change your sexuality" arguments. Too much assumptions on your part.

 

Quote

Do we have to justify why someone is a certain sexuality? Guess we need to start justifying why someone is straight then every time we see a hetero couple in game.

 

Another argument that doesn't make much sense. In other words, writing and character development are irrelevant. Clearly every other game doesn't take relationships like this and their characters or story seriously, so measuring this game's case with others is nonsensical. And with this title in subject, we're talking about a Naughty Dog game and cast here. The sequel also does a good job at reinforcing how serious Naughty Dog clearly are about this aspect of Ellie's character, so the flawed comparison to every type of game out there is extremely silly.

 

Quote

"Oh he's making out with that girl, but the game never explained he was straight before or why." Characters can be gay just because just like how straight characters are straight just because and people don't question it.

 

See above. That's one of the worse cases I've seen of generalizing.

Edited May 3, 2020 by EcoShifter

[TurtlePM]

6 hours ago, Kolm said:

I guess you were lucky... When I was watching the live teaser of Assassin's Creed Valhalla, people were constantly spamming TLOU2 spoilers. Same the day after with the first trailer of AC.
I didn't even get a chance to close the chat after the page loaded to avoid spoilers...

 

Well I am been very luck and/or I'm not following any video games media. I'm currently playing God of War and I wasn't spoiled about the game so far, I didn't have the need to look for informations about the game. 

[Seraphim_Rez]

1 minute ago, EcoShifter said:

 

It was never established that Ellie was gay, so that point makes no sense. Kissing the girl doesn't make her gay automatically. The writing, which is obviously important in a story driven game, one that also especially takes character development seriously, never does enough to support your "Ellie is gay" and "infected zombies are going to change your sexuality" arguments. Too much assumptions on your part.

 

 

Another argument that doesn't make much sense. In other words, writing and character development are irrelevant. Clearly every game doesn't take relationships like this and their characters or story seriously. And we're talking about a Naughty Dog game and cast here. The sequel also dos a good job at reinforcing how seriously Naughty Dog clearly are about this aspect of Ellie's character, so the flawed comparison to every type of game out there is extremely silly.

 

 

See above. That's one of the worse cases I've seen of generalizing and poor reasoning.

 

It was never established that Ellie is bi either. You also said " Being in the "damn post-apocalypse" shouldn't narrow her sexuality down to strictly liking females " which implies that she can't be gay.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't have to justify why someone is gay.

"the game isn't doing a good job at justifying why she . . . has . . . to be lesbian over anything else."

 

Liking girls is just a part of her character, but it's not her defining trait. She's not lesbian above all else, she's a well loved character that happens to like girls, it doesn't need to be justified.

 

Good rundown of how this happened.

 

 

 

[Joker-Kun890]

9 hours ago, PatinumNumemon said:

I think my eyes fell out trying to read all this lmao

 

I feel like that Simpsons gif right now. Walking in and then right back out again. ?

 

Some of the worse rhetoric I've ever read in this thread. 

[EcoShifter]

1 hour ago, Seraphim_Rez said:

It was never established that Ellie is bi either. You also said " Being in the "damn post-apocalypse" shouldn't narrow her sexuality down to strictly liking females " which implies that she can't be gay.

 

You need to firstly understand that my original post functions as a counterargument, not a general statement, specifically to the quality of writing for a character's sexuality. So if you're going to argue with me, you need to understand the perspective and context. Now regarding your first "paragraph", that bold line was said against a line that says something like "Ellie being a lesbian is well written", which (you didn't acknowledged and) I disagreed with. She can be gay, but my point is that the writing hasn't been doing a good job at supporting why that specifically is and why it only has to be that way, obviously. As I said, though, the kiss is well written because the story actually does a competent job building up to that point.

 

Quote

I'm just saying that we shouldn't have to justify why someone is gay.

"the game isn't doing a good job at justifying why she . . . has . . . to be lesbian over anything else."

 

To clarify again, the discussion is whether the writing behind her being lesbian is competent or not. I argued the latter. In addition, like I said, the game—and the developers—takes itself seriously, so I am (required to) as well. This particular game has to justify it, because in addition to constantly showing us and being a part of the story, it's explicitly trying to convince the audience why this is her sexuality.

 

Quote

Liking girls is just a part of her character, but it's not her defining trait. She's not lesbian above all else, she's a well loved character that happens to like girls, it doesn't need to be justified.

 

Again, you're not following the actual point of the argument. Not defining her character is irrelevant. This is about the execution of her sexuality through the story. Secondly, the game and developers are pushing towards the lesbian territory, so saying "she just happens to like girls" and "she's not lesbian above all" is basically an immature point, especially from the developers who strongly support the LBGT community (ex.2.), have on numerous occasions pushed "Chlodine" (ex.2), and made Ellie's and Dena's kiss the center of attention during The Last of Us: Part II's Gameplay reveal event.

Edited May 3, 2020 by EcoShifter

[kidson2004]

Damn this whole thread went left real quick. People are pissed about this and rightfully so, but spoilers happens so what can you do? Can do your best to stay away from them. Me personally, I wasn’t going to buy this and playing this for a long time anyway, so I’m not bothered by spoilers or whatever agenda their pushing. 

[Beyondthegrave07]

Can I not have a peaceful Sunday? Locking until this thread is cleaned up.