Leaderboard ban?

[KTILLA23]

Hello all, my brother has his psn account registered here on psnprofiles but doesn't use the forums here. And apparently when he went to check the leaderboards all his stuff and fast times on the leaderboard were gone. He had first place times on Shenmue 2, Doom 1, Doom 64, and some other fast times but all his stats are gone.  His account his 100 % legit and has never cheated. We help each other hand and hand with the same games a lot of times. I can prove each one of his times is legit and trophies if need be.  His account is KTILLA61 btw. We both have used similar names for 12+ years on xbl and psn so idk if this is the issue.

 

For Shenmue 2 i can provide on speedruns.com that his 5:59 is legit in fact most of the times on speedruns.com are much faster on the steam version. https://www.speedrun.com/shenmue2#All_Achievements

For Doom 1 i know Doom 1 like the back of my hand and help him through with the coop parts on nightmare and got a 1:43 time. I can even assure you that there are much faster times on youtube and players that can achieve this.

And for Doom 64 got a 3 minute and 58 second time. This one is much faster than all the other times on the doom 64 leaderboard at this time but he found a way that right before unlocking the trophies you can make a save in each slot. And then reload them one by one and unlock the trophies almost lighting fast. He even saved a video of it, if i do need to share i will be happy too.  Any trick like this is not in any rules as it is an in-game oversight and has seen it used for games like the Sonic Ultimate Genesis Collection other old schools re-releases that have a "save anywhere" option. I am assuming that his might be why his account got flagged on the leaderboard because it is much faster than all the other times on there at this time. But a can assure you that it is very possible and one of you can even try it yourself. But as I said i can provide a video of this if need be.  

 

Other than that I have no idea why his account would have got banned. But his account is 100 % legit and doesn't use this forum and enjoys using the guides and tracking his stats on this site. I hope we can get this cleared up and thank you.   

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by KTILLA23

[B1rvine]

@KTILLA23 He's flagged for Doom64. While logged in, a notification box tells you what you're flagged for, and gives you a button to click to dispute it. The video would be most helpful in resolving this.

 

Thanks.

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by B1rvine

[You]

> This one is much faster than all the other times on the doom 64 leaderboard at this time but he found a way that right before

> unlocking the trophies you can make a save in each slot. And then reload them one by one and unlock the trophies almost lighting fast

 

Hmm, well that sounds like cheating to me.

 

> And for Doom 64 got a 3 minute and 58 second time

 

Come on man. What game lasts for less than 4 minutes? Not even Aabs animals a game where you just sit there and do nothing and let the trophies pop. You can't even complete Aabs Animals as quick as that.

 

Sure, technically you aren't cheating. But how is that fair?

 

You're not shaving off seconds to get a higher score than the last guy, you're making the speed run INTO mere seconds.

 

There's a reason why when an Olympic Marathon starts that runners aren't allowed to start the race near to the finishing line. Since that is obviously unfair.

[KTILLA23]

6 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

@KTILLA23 He's flagged for Doom64. While logged in, a notification box tells you what you're flagged for, and gives you a button to click to dispute it. The video would be most helpful in resolving this.

 

Thanks.

 

Ok thank you, I will have to try to do this on Monday or Tuesday as i am out of town atm and don't have access to his ps4 atm. He saved the whole video as it is a short clip.  But yes the gist of achieving a fast time on Doom 64 is saving right before each trophy requirement is meant and saving in five different slots then when all the saves files are saved in the right spots. You reload them all and then you can unlock them all very quickly. This method used for many other games that have "save anywhere" functions. Thank you and i will get back to you in the upcoming days!

Just now, enaysoft said:

> This one is much faster than all the other times on the doom 64 leaderboard at this time but he found a way that right before

> unlocking the trophies you can make a save in each slot. And then reload them one by one and unlock the trophies almost lighting fast

 

Hmm, well that sounds like cheating to me.

 

> And for Doom 64 got a 3 minute and 58 second time

 

Come on man. What game lasts for less than 4 minutes? Not even Aabs animals a game where you just sit there and do nothing and let the trophies pop. You can't even complete Aabs Animals as quick as that.

 

Sure, technically you aren't cheating. But how is that fair?

 

You're not shaving off seconds to get a higher score than the last guy, you're making the speed run INTO mere seconds.

 

There's a reason why when an Olympic Marathon starts that runners aren't allowed to start the race near to the finishing line. Since that is obviously unfair.

According to the rules, this is not cheating to exploit an in-game function. Many other gamers here on psnprofiles have used this function and have never gotten banned from other games. This would not be cheating at all. There are games like Jax 2, Conan exiles, etc that you can "Cheat" right to the end of the game. But this isn't even that, this is more like Sonic collection, or the other sega games where you can make a save right before a requirement is meant. I was amazed when i saw him figure this out myself, it's an in game exploit and no outside "hacking" was used.  Other people can do it themselves even. Maybe even faster. Sorry if you see this as cheating but in my eyes and by the rules it is not i believe cheating.   

[You]

> According to the rules, this is not cheating to exploit an in-game function

 

Well naturally the rules need changing, you should think of it from an ethical point of view. Absolute nobody in the entire world can compete with that to get a legit time now.

Also, let's say an AI bot is created that can play Doom64 absolutely flawlessly, it uses the most direct route to finish each stage, it never misses a shot and it can complete the entire game from start to finish without getting hit once. It is an absolute perfect run that no human could ever hope to achieve.

 

Unfortunately though the time your brother set completely smashes the AI's perfect run. Since your brother only played 98% of every stage. Not even AI can beat your brother since even the perfect AI actually has to play the game properly in its entirety.

 

> Sorry if you see this as cheating but in my eyes and by the rules it is not i believe cheating.   

 

Well that's fair enough. I really hope your brother is very proud of his achievement, it must have taken him many years to get that good at the game.

[Gage]

The Doom 64 time would be legitimate. The game has a bunch of save slots, and the way the trophies pop and with usage of passwords you could set yourself up right before the trophy pop in every save slot, then load them in sequence to earn them. 

[KTILLA23]

26 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

> According to the rules, this is not cheating to exploit an in-game function

 

Well naturally the rules need changing, you should think of it from an ethical point of view. Absolute nobody in the entire world can compete with that to get a legit time now.

Also, let's say an AI bot is created that can play Doom64 absolutely flawlessly, it uses the most direct route to finish each stage, it never misses a shot and it can complete the entire game from start to finish without getting hit once. It is an absolute perfect run that no human could ever hope to achieve.

 

Unfortunately though the time your brother set completely smashes the AI's perfect run. Since your brother only played 98% of every stage. Not even AI can beat your brother since even the perfect AI actually has to play the game properly in its entirety.

 

> Sorry if you see this as cheating but in my eyes and by the rules it is not i believe cheating.   

 

Well that's fair enough. I really hope your brother is very proud of his achievement, it must have taken him many years to get that good at the game.

If the rules were changed to disqualify times that use in game exploits then i'm sure he would accept that the time wouldn't qualify. Really all he wants is to track his stats.  But atm it is not illegal exploits like this. You and many other people can do it themselves even faster if they wanted too. If an ai exsisited it can probably do it even faster.  Sorry again you feel like this. 

 

I will provide a video on in the up coming days. But if anyone wants to gives this way a shot and upload it before i can have the chance feel free. There is nothing to hide.  

Edited May 2, 2020 by KTILLA23
Fix typos

[Smashero]

I can confirm that since now "suddenly" I am the fastest "Doom 64" 100% achiever: I also tried to get it under 5 mins, but I messed up badly :D.

It is totally possible: screw the YT guides, just reach the point "just-before-the-trophy" and make a save. Prepare all your saves like this and then GO!

IMHO it can be done in 3-4 mins "100% time" while the preparation will take you around 40-50 mins.

 

RVNH3CT1CD3M0???
Locate the secret level 'Hectic'

 

Requires you to get into a secret room, so from there you can start your speed run.

 

Doom 64 done by OP's Brother was for sure legit in 3 mins 58 secs - totally possible. I tried to SMASH his time, but I f'ed up and didn't want to retry :].

 

42 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

...cut...

You are really wrong in this case :/

Edited May 2, 2020 by Smashero

[B1rvine]

@KTILLA23 I'll just restore the account to the leaderboards, since multiple people have indicated it's possible. 

 

I wasn't involved in this case, but I'll assume it was removed initially because nobody else's time even came close.

[KTILLA23]

5 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

@KTILLA23 I'll just restore the account to the leaderboards, since multiple people have indicated it's possible. 

 

I wasn't involved in this case, but I'll assume it was removed initially because nobody else's time even came close.

 

19 minutes ago, Smashero said:

I can confirm that since now "suddenly" I am the fastest "Doom 64" 100% achiever: I also tried to get it under 5 mins, but I messed up badly :D.

It is totally possible: screw the YT guides, just reach the point "just-before-the-trophy" and make a save. Prepare all your saves like this and then GO!

IMHO it can be done in 3-4 mins "100% time" while the preparation will take you around 40-50 mins.

 

RVNH3CT1CD3M0???
Locate the secret level 'Hectic'

 

Requires you to get into a secret room, so from there you can start your speed run.

 

Doom 64 done by OP's Brother was for sure legit in 3 mins 58 secs - totally possible. I tried to SMASH his time, but I f'ed up and didn't want to retry :].

 

You are really wrong in this case :/

Thank you guys very much! I am very sorry for all the misunderstanding. And thank @Smashero for confirming!  And sorry that your 1st 100% for doom 64 is short lived

Edited May 2, 2020 by KTILLA23

[Smashero]

And I am 2nd again, damn :/

 

 @KTILLA23 :]

[Rias Gremory]

Doom 64 huh? I don't see anything wrong getting fast time platinum, it's absurd that getting banned on leaderboards just a fast time platinum on Doom 64.

[Smashero]

2 minutes ago, UltraFire121 said:

Doom 64 huh? I don't see anything wrong getting fast time platinum, it's absurd that getting banned on leaderboards just a fast time platinum on Doom 64.

Especially that it doesn't have a plat :D. 

[TheLakota]

1 hour ago, enaysoft said:

Sure, technically you aren't cheating.

 

Full stop.

[Nitro]

2 hours ago, enaysoft said:

> This one is much faster than all the other times on the doom 64 leaderboard at this time but he found a way that right before

> unlocking the trophies you can make a save in each slot. And then reload them one by one and unlock the trophies almost lighting fast

 

Hmm, well that sounds like cheating to me.

 

> And for Doom 64 got a 3 minute and 58 second time

 

Come on man. What game lasts for less than 4 minutes? Not even Aabs animals a game where you just sit there and do nothing and let the trophies pop. You can't even complete Aabs Animals as quick as that.

 

Sure, technically you aren't cheating. But how is that fair?

 

You're not shaving off seconds to get a higher score than the last guy, you're making the speed run INTO mere seconds.

 

There's a reason why when an Olympic Marathon starts that runners aren't allowed to start the race near to the finishing line. Since that is obviously unfair. 

You can finish Super Weekend Mode in about the same time.

 

Also I guess anyone that has played a Visual Novel before should be banned from the LB as well since they used save slots to make their plats faster? Lmfao, honestly.

[Conker]

2 hours ago, enaysoft said:

> According to the rules, this is not cheating to exploit an in-game function

 

Well naturally the rules need changing, you should think of it from an ethical point of view. Absolute nobody in the entire world can compete with that to get a legit time now.

Also, let's say an AI bot is created that can play Doom64 absolutely flawlessly, it uses the most direct route to finish each stage, it never misses a shot and it can complete the entire game from start to finish without getting hit once. It is an absolute perfect run that no human could ever hope to achieve.

 

Unfortunately though the time your brother set completely smashes the AI's perfect run. Since your brother only played 98% of every stage. Not even AI can beat your brother since even the perfect AI actually has to play the game properly in its entirety.

 

> Sorry if you see this as cheating but in my eyes and by the rules it is not i believe cheating.   

 

Well that's fair enough. I really hope your brother is very proud of his achievement, it must have taken him many years to get that good at the game.

Serioursly this is not cheating, you are so wrong, so what is boosting cheating to then???? is cloud saving sound shapes cheating? is using a turbo controller for games cheating??

 

you Logic is dumb

[Rias Gremory]

Yeah @B1rvine you taking it way to far and should of apologize to @KTILLA23 for the misunderstanding and putting him back on leaderboards.

[ATTYYYYY487]

3 hours ago, enaysoft said:

> This one is much faster than all the other times on the doom 64 leaderboard at this time but he found a way that right before

> unlocking the trophies you can make a save in each slot. And then reload them one by one and unlock the trophies almost lighting fast

 

Hmm, well that sounds like cheating to me.

 

> And for Doom 64 got a 3 minute and 58 second time

 

Come on man. What game lasts for less than 4 minutes? Not even Aabs animals a game where you just sit there and do nothing and let the trophies pop. You can't even complete Aabs Animals as quick as that.

 

Sure, technically you aren't cheating. But how is that fair?

 

You're not shaving off seconds to get a higher score than the last guy, you're making the speed run INTO mere seconds.

 

There's a reason why when an Olympic Marathon starts that runners aren't allowed to start the race near to the finishing line. Since that is obviously unfair.

If something is there to be used it's not cheating, and it's definitely fair. 

[Otonio_Bruno]

4 hours ago, UltraFire121 said:

Yeah @B1rvine you taking it way to far and should of apologize to @KTILLA23 for the misunderstanding and putting him back on leaderboards.

 

?

He doesn't need to apologize at all, especially since he wasn't involved in this case. And how he is taking too far simply by doing his job, which is approving or declining flag reports?

[Sir_Bee]

Would this not fall under using your own save file to pop trophies in an impossible time manner?

 

 

Using a save file to auto-unlock trophies - If you use an external save file to auto-unlock trophies or advance you further into the game and the impossibility of normal circumstance can be proven via the timestamps, it's flaggable. This includes using your own save file to unlock trophies at an impossible time frame, be careful with this, always sync your trophies, and do not use your save file to earn trophies impossibly out of order.

[ProfBambam55]

1 minute ago, Sir_Bee said:

Would this not fall under using your own save file to pop trophies in an impossible time manner?.

i don't think so...it's not an external save...it's internal...anyone who owns the game could technically reproduce this person's strategy if they wanted without any external hardware or software...think of it as a very clever speedrun...therefore no reason to flag...

[grifteskymfning]

4 minutes ago, Sir_Bee said:

Would this not fall under using your own save file to pop trophies in an impossible time manner?

 

No.

[Sir_Bee]

1 minute ago, ProfBambam55 said:

i don't think so...it's not an external save...it's internal...anyone who owns the game could technically reproduce this person's strategy if they wanted without any external hardware or software...think of it as a very clever speedrun...therefore no reason to flag...

 

Just now, grifteskymfning said:

 

No.

 

But it says that it includes using your own save.  So it doesn't need to be an external save.  OP is deliberately setting up save files in order to get the trophies in a timeframe that would otherwise be impossible.  That is exactly what the rule states.

[stargate1995]

11 minutes ago, Sir_Bee said:

Would this not fall under using your own save file to pop trophies in an impossible time manner?

 

 

Using a save file to auto-unlock trophies - If you use an external save file to auto-unlock trophies or advance you further into the game and the impossibility of normal circumstance can be proven via the timestamps, it's flaggable. This includes using your own save file to unlock trophies at an impossible time frame, be careful with this, always sync your trophies, and do not use your save file to earn trophies impossibly out of order.

 

The rule sounds more like it would relate to earning trophies out of order, e.g. earning a trophy for beating chapter 3 in a game without beating chapter 1-2 first. Anyway the key point here is that he's not using an external save, this is all ingame saves and you don't even have to use save backups. This is no different then fulfilling the requirements for a few trophies and then popping them in quick succession in any other game, which is possible in many if you cared enough. Only difference here is that it's possible with every trophy.

[ProfBambam55]

3 minutes ago, Sir_Bee said:

But it says that it includes using your own save.  So it doesn't need to be an external save.

again, I'm pretty sure it must be external...line 2 is a further description of line 1 in the way I read it...so criteria one is no external file to bypass trophies...criteria 2 says, it also cannot be your own...

 

I don't have an example of all the possible scenarios but things like using a 100% complete file that auto-pops some/many/all trophies comes to mind...doesn't matter if you can prove that it's from a file that you made either..