MiloFPS

Less hard games nowadays and platinums you gave up on for being too hard?

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In the PSNP community I feel some people have so much time on their hands they they can devote to 'git gud', so it doesn't seem like any game is so difficult people have given up on it. The rarest platinums tend to be unobtainable or extremely time consuming games. Difficulty doesn't seem to be a deterrent i.e. Bloodbourne.

 

Any other hard games? I'm guessing Super Meat Boy and Ninja Gaiden are up there, but in general games aren't as physically difficult as they once were years ago. They are making them easier for broader player bases. 

 

Mine was Max Payne 3. So many things can go wrong in playing the entire game without dying I gave up. It takes me several attempts to warm up to be good enough and then you have all the things out of your control that can end your run. Worse, there is no one way to beat each level, or cheese it, or any tricks, everyone has so many different ways of doing it so you can't use videos or advice to help you. 

 

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The hardest platinum out there is easily Crypt of the Necrodancer. It's already an extremely hard game but it requires a ridiculous amount of effort and consistency to get the last two trophies.

 

I've given up on Super Street Fighter 4 a few times.. I'm just not good at that game at all haha.

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I do think there is one other reason for lack of difficulty besides the attempts to appeal to broader playerbases.  A lot of older games that are lauded for being hard are also hard due to the technological limitations of the time.  One of the biggest limitations being limited to no ability to save your game and go back to where you left off.  A lot of old games had no ability to save at all and you always started from the beginning.  Some had passwords that would let you continue from a later level or an ability to save on the cartridge, but that was usually limited to only at sparsely available save points (like in towns).  The other thing that could make it tricky was either clunky or unresponsive controls.  I've definitely cursed plenty of times at old school platformers because I was pressing the button to jump and the character didn't jump.  That's not good difficulty, that's bad programming.  Old school turn based RPGs also usually had you input all your character's turns and you had to guess at what the enemy would do and account for that, along with accounting for if you'll go before the enemy or not and what order your characters would go in.  That actually is a lot harder to strategize with than the modern method of one character at a time, but it was done due to the technical limitations at the time.  It's a lot trickier to make a hard game using modern conventions.

 

As far as some hard plats, Muramasa Rebirth is one of the hardest I've tried to do.  Fury difficulty has you at 1 HP and no amount of grinding will increase HP.  You can't get hit.  However, I think a good chunk of the difficulty comes from the bosses using very cheap tactics and the controls not always being the most responsive than from actual real difficulty.  Ys Origin is a good one where the difficulty is sold and doesn't feel cheap and on the higher difficulties some of the boss patterns actually change rather than them just getting more HP and defense.  If you want the plat in that game, you do have to practice and "git gud" because nightmare boss rush with even the easiest character to do it with is still hard.  Though sadly another hard plat is Japanese only, but I definitely thought the upgraded boss battles in Trails in the Sky SC Evo were the most challenging battles I've ever done in a turn based RPG.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, MiloFPS said:

In the PSNP community I feel some people have so much time on their hands they they can devote to 'git gud', so it doesn't seem like any game is so difficult people have given up on it. The rarest platinums tend to be unobtainable or extremely time consuming games. Difficulty doesn't seem to be a deterrent i.e. Bloodbourne.

 

Any other hard games? I'm guessing Super Meat Boy and Ninja Gaiden are up there, but in general games aren't as physically difficult as they once were years ago. They are making them easier for broader player bases. 

 

Mine was Max Payne 3. So many things can go wrong in playing the entire game without dying I gave up. It takes me several attempts to warm up to be good enough and then you have all the things out of your control that can end your run. Worse, there is no one way to beat each level, or cheese it, or any tricks, everyone has so many different ways of doing it so you can't use videos or advice to help you. 

 

I'd be curious to see if the difficulty problem (or lack thereof) has any relation to the different generation of gamers on PSNP. A lot of us seem to be around the 25-40 age range, which means we've played games for quite a long time. Game mechanics haven't changed much over the last decade or so, probably a combination of both hardware not being as limiting and development costs being too high for most companies, to risk doing something new. Similar games mean we've already had plenty of practice, before even starting something fresh.

 

It would be interesting to see if anyone is willing to share stories of how their kids are handling games nowadays. Are they being challenged by modern games, like we were back in the day?

I feel like that's really the only real way to gauge if games are getting easier. 

 

 

Edited by VigilantCrow
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I think this was mostly true in the beginning of PS4's life-cycle. Nowadays there's platinum trophies for all levels of commitment.

It's as possible to get a thousand moderately challenging platinum trophies, as is to get a thousand soul crushing platinum trophies.

It all depends on how much time you are willing to devote for imaginary internet points. You can reach lvl 100 as quickly or as slowly as you wish.

 

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Posted (edited)

i just think more ppl are into trophy hunting now than before which is why newer games dont have as rare plats as older ones from the ps3/vita era

Edited by ifyucantbeatmeXD
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Well it would be Super Meat Boy. That game is super thick and hard as fuck as tough nails that no one nor myself wouldn't attempt to platinum it.

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, ladynadiad said:

I do think there is one other reason for lack of difficulty besides the attempts to appeal to broader playerbases.  A lot of older games that are lauded for being hard are also hard due to the technological limitations of the time.  One of the biggest limitations being limited to no ability to save your game and go back to where you left off.  A lot of old games had no ability to save at all and you always started from the beginning.  Some had passwords that would let you continue from a later level or an ability to save on the cartridge, but that was usually limited to only at sparsely available save points (like in towns).  The other thing that could make it tricky was either clunky or unresponsive controls.  I've definitely cursed plenty of times at old school platformers because I was pressing the button to jump and the character didn't jump.  That's not good difficulty, that's bad programming.  Old school turn based RPGs also usually had you input all your character's turns and you had to guess at what the enemy would do and account for that, along with accounting for if you'll go before the enemy or not and what order your characters would go in.  That actually is a lot harder to strategize with than the modern method of one character at a time, but it was done due to the technical limitations at the time.  It's a lot trickier to make a hard game using modern conventions.

 

As far as some hard plats, Muramasa Rebirth is one of the hardest I've tried to do.  Fury difficulty has you at 1 HP and no amount of grinding will increase HP.  You can't get hit.  However, I think a good chunk of the difficulty comes from the bosses using very cheap tactics and the controls not always being the most responsive than from actual real difficulty.

Spot on. 

When I played The Last Guardian a few years ago it felt like playing Fumito Uedas last 2005 game because the controls were so unresponsive and bad. He actually used the same control scheme and put it into a 2015 game and predictably, the results were disastrous. I wonder how many players destroyed their controllers over that game. 

 

Glitches and and cheap tactics are difficulty makers, if a game is tough but fair, it will always be beaten because there are enough people with persistence if playing a game they enjoy. I will never give up as long as I keep enjoying the game. 

 

Wolfenstein II’s mein leben mode, The Evil Within’s akamu mode and Max Payne 3’s New York minute hardcore are all one-death-start-the-entire-game-over difficulties that try to copy retro games, but intentionally. 

Edited by MiloFPS
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Posted (edited)

16 minutes ago, MiloFPS said:

Spot on. 

When I played The Last Guardian a few years ago it felt like playing Fumito Uedas last 2005 game because the controls were so unresponsive and bad. He actually used the same control scheme and put it into a 2015 game and predictably, the results were disastrous. I wonder how many players destroyed their controllers over that game. 

 

Glitches and and cheap tactics are difficulty makers, if a game is tough but fair, it will always be beaten because there are enough people with persistence if playing a game they enjoy. I will never give up as long as I keep enjoying the game. 

 

Wolfenstein II’s mein leben mode, The Evil Within’s akamu mode and Max Payne 3’s New York minute hardcore are all one-death-start-the-entire-game-over difficulties that try to copy retro games, but intentionally. 

Just a little clarification, The Evil Within AKUMU difficulty doesn't make you start the game over if you die.

Edited by evs_castro
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On the whole games have become less difficult since the PS3 era I think. The F1 games are a good example. The older PS3 ones used to have difficulty trophies, like beat a certain quick time on 10 different tracks. The only challenge to the modern ones is that they are sometimes extremely grindy. You needed to be somewhat fast for the older ones. But now, as long as you do not die from boredom, you can always get the plat.

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Honestly, I’m not experienced with going for hard and grindy plats at all. But I recently started doing this, I’m fine with the grindy part but man some games are so much fun and then it feels like they ruin the fun by that one single ridiculous hard or grindy trophy for the 100% or plat.

 

I’m currently working on Black Desert which is grindy and Pac-Man Championship Edition 2 which has some hard trophies and earlier today it really pissed me off, lol.

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13 hours ago, ladynadiad said:

I do think there is one other reason for lack of difficulty besides the attempts to appeal to broader playerbases.  A lot of older games that are lauded for being hard are also hard due to the technological limitations of the time.  One of the biggest limitations being limited to no ability to save your game and go back to where you left off.  A lot of old games had no ability to save at all and you always started from the beginning.  Some had passwords that would let you continue from a later level or an ability to save on the cartridge, but that was usually limited to only at sparsely available save points (like in towns).  The other thing that could make it tricky was either clunky or unresponsive controls.  I've definitely cursed plenty of times at old school platformers because I was pressing the button to jump and the character didn't jump.  That's not good difficulty, that's bad programming.  Old school turn based RPGs also usually had you input all your character's turns and you had to guess at what the enemy would do and account for that, along with accounting for if you'll go before the enemy or not and what order your characters would go in.  That actually is a lot harder to strategize with than the modern method of one character at a time, but it was done due to the technical limitations at the time.  It's a lot trickier to make a hard game using modern conventions.

 

You're talking about gaming back in the 1980s and 1990s, long before there was any achievement system in games. Anybody curious should just watch those old episodes of The Angry Video Game Nerd on YouTube. He did a good job explaining how brutal and unfair those old games were.

 

If you want a good example of hard games made with modern conventions, Super Meat Boy and Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus. Both present a very good and hard challenge for anyone willing enough to put in the practice and dedication.

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I would personally have to disagree with less hard games being a thing nowadays. Particularly in the platinum sense, we have some brutal games in the market. Super Meat Boy, Furi, Wolfenstein 2, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Outlast 2, Devil May Cry 5, Darkest Dungeon, etc. all come to mind. However, as I'd argue that there are more difficult games that have come out, I'd also argue that there are are more easy ones too, like My Name is Mayo and Telltale games.

 

I don't think I've ever given up on a game because of difficulty per se, but RNG. I gave up on Xenoverse 1 for that reason but seeing as how this week I went back and did Wolfenstein 2, I'm contemplating getting Xenoverse plat.

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9 minutes ago, hishomie1 said:

I would personally have to disagree with less hard games being a thing nowadays. Particularly in the platinum sense, we have some brutal games in the market. Super Meat Boy, Furi, Wolfenstein 2, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Outlast 2, Devil May Cry 5, Darkest Dungeon, etc. all come to mind. However, as I'd argue that there are more difficult games that have come out, I'd also argue that there are are more easy ones too, like My Name is Mayo and Telltale games.

 

I don't think I've ever given up on a game because of difficulty per se, but RNG. I gave up on Xenoverse 1 for that reason but seeing as how this week I went back and did Wolfenstein 2, I'm contemplating getting Xenoverse plat.

 

Agree on more hard in terms of top tear and easy game in tear of trophy whore game came out the past years than on ps3 days. Generally speaking I see PS4 AAA games become more an more easy and that's a trend I dislike.

 

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46 minutes ago, REAPER4536 said:

I see PS4 AAA games become more an more easy and that's a trend I dislike.

 

Developers are quickly realizing that it doesn't matter how good or unique your game is if it isn't accessible by the general public. This will lead to a decrease in average game difficulty going forward. The exception to this seems to be early in the lifecycle of each new hardware generation.

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I've given up on platinuming any of the twin-stick games in my library (Titan Souls and Jotun come to mind), they really had no fucks to give in making those trophy lists. additionally smaller games like those have the unfortunate situation of being very short, so the devs put ridiculous trophies in the game to artificially extend how long someone will have to master them to git gud.

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Posted (edited)

I think another reason why games are easier nowadays is because they're trying to appeal to a lot more people. People who may be older, or have less time on their hands, so they make games more accessible. It also seems like they're more story driven, rather than just to challenge people. That's my take on it anyways.

 

As for platinums I've given up on, I had one I've been working on for months now but it keeps glitching on me, and that's Agents of Mayhem. I really like the game, but I can't in good conscience give any more time to it. The story has glitched to the point where I can't finish it three times. Lairs have glitched so I can't interact with hack machines, and enemies keep spawning in buildings so I can't kill them. I decided yesterday that I should just delete it off my console because any other game I would've given up on a long time ago.

Edited by Upendo_Vitani
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one platinum i had a hard time with was duke nukem. that floating brain looking boss was almost impossible to beat unless you brought the right guns. and then the end boss i remember it took me a day or 2 just to beat him i had to keep taking breaks because i was so pissed. akumi mode or whatever the f its called on the evil within was hard because you had constant hard bosses and that one room was pure luck almost if you made it past that then the rest wasnt as bad. i remember one of the resident evils i ended up dying over 100 times when your in some big room that you have to fight in and it gets all destroyed. im almost given up on horizon chase turbo because that game pisses me off so much. i only have to do the professional tournament and i hate winning 3/4 times just to tie on the podium on the last race and loose. 

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Posted (edited)

I for one am glad that fantastic games ad their platinums are more accessible for people who suck at games like me

Edited by Lan Stee
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Wolfenstein 2, I gave up when I found out about Mein Leben. I might go back and play it sometime just to get the rest of the trophies. But I honestly think it would have been better to just have a limited amount of saves so I could pick one spot to save so I could reload and try again from a point, instead of restarting from the beginning. Dead Space 2 did this much better, and you don't see so many people complaining about this. Replaying the entire game from start to finish without stopping is a bit of a task, without saving? That's not really something just anyone can do.

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Honestly, I do feel as if it is more rewarding to earn trophies on PS3 instead of PS4 because with PS4 there are so many games that are either insanely easy, or insanely grindy. PS3 probably has the best balance of easy and hard games. The oldest PS3 games are usually 7/10 or higher on guides, while over time they got easier. I really need to clean up these old games on PS3...

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11 minutes ago, PatinumNumemon said:

Honestly, I do feel as if it is more rewarding to earn trophies on PS3 instead of PS4 because with PS4 there are so many games that are either insanely easy, or insanely grindy. PS3 probably has the best balance of easy and hard games. The oldest PS3 games are usually 7/10 or higher on guides, while over time they got easier. I really need to clean up these old games on PS3...

 

a lot of Ps3 games also had ridiculous online trophies

 

 

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40 minutes ago, TalalHmd said:

 

a lot of Ps3 games also had ridiculous online trophies

 

 

 

True. Even more reason for me to get back on there and play cleanup 😂 the worst offenders in that category I'd say were Far Cry 2, Battlefield and Street Fighter. Talk about rough! My main goal for my next PS3 game is Command & Conquer Red Alert 3, which has some pretty doo doo servers right now. I just hope I can get someone to help me get the co-op missions done, as those are the only online required.

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I believe the only games I ever gave up on were Far Cry 2, Chronicles of Riddick, and FEAR 2—they had excruciating multiplayer trophies, plus the MP modes were crap and nobody played them. Not sure if that could be considered "too hard," or just laziness on my part.

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Posted (edited)

Dont know if i would consider any of my platinums hard. some may be a bit tedious. but not overly hard. i consider myself to be a mediocre gamer. not remotely talented enough for the souls games and not patient enough for something that would require a 100 plus hours. the only way id even attempt a platinum run is if 1. the game is super easy i.e. my name is mayo or 2. i really enjoy a game that much that im willing to sink that much time and effort into it.

Edited by funboy1246
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