(Discussion)should you get flagged for late syncs?

[Thropy_Croissant]

4 hours ago, Murderer__211 said:

And to be fair, in the dispute that started this entire thread, the flag was lifted as the player was able to show his stats.

 

Lol. Not one bit. It was closed (with a very false and personal attack on OP) and many people argued with B1rvine for hours until he finally reopened it and then eventually lifted it. This flag was NOT going to be lifted at all (like many wrong flags I'm seeing mostly from B1rvine). 

[zenovka]

Here's my 4 cents,  well yes b1 did create a shit storm , he at least was present and interacted with the thread . For that I commend him. Now the rest of the crt just sat on the sidelines . I know crt is a thankless job with lots of stress , but at least support the members of it if your crt . Dont just show up and and say the thread wasnt needed basically. I'm sure I'm on the hit list now for posting this but at least I stood up and said enough . There is no perfect answer on either side but some middle ground should be agreed upon at least . Soapbox over . 

[grimydawg___]

7 minutes ago, zenovka said:

Here's my 4 cents,  well yes b1 did create a shit storm , he at least was present and interacted with the thread . For that I commend him. Now the rest of the crt just sat on the sidelines . I know crt is a thankless job with lots of stress , but at least support the members of it if your crt . Dont just show up and and say the thread wasnt needed basically. I'm sure I'm on the hit list now for posting this but at least I stood up and said enough . There is no perfect answer on either side but some middle ground should be agreed upon at least . Soapbox over . 

I'm sorry for working.  That's my five cents

[DeepEyes7]

49 minutes ago, zenovka said:

Here's my 4 cents,  well yes b1 did create a shit storm , he at least was present and interacted with the thread . For that I commend him. Now the rest of the crt just sat on the sidelines . I know crt is a thankless job with lots of stress , but at least support the members of it if your crt . Dont just show up and and say the thread wasnt needed basically. I'm sure I'm on the hit list now for posting this but at least I stood up and said enough . There is no perfect answer on either side but some middle ground should be agreed upon at least . Soapbox over . 

 

Sadly there is no middle ground here, or you go full with it (PSNP right now) or you do nothing (All the other sites) because the middle ground always open the option to "why that guy flag was lifted if we cheated very similar?", we have seen that in the problem with the BO2 MP hacked trophies.

 

lol at hit list, people badmouth the CRT all day and later they are asking "Why the CRT isn't answering?"

[Velvet]

45 minutes ago, grimydawg___ said:

I'm sorry for working.  That's my five cents

 

Is that the same excuse you tell the rest of the CRT when you explain to them why you mass approved illegitimate flags and then leave them to clean up the mess? 

[Mesopithecus]

1 hour ago, B1rvine said:

Alright, the community has apparently voiced their opinion on this matter.

 

https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/89764-soundfreedoms-dispute/#comment-2062691

 

 

I have to say I agree with one of the users further up (@SpacebarPlays) that this kind of response is so ridiculously childish and petty.  I get that you were probably frustrated and trying to prove a point, but all it really does is reinforce some of the negative views people have about the CRT.

 

Maybe this thread has run its course and should just be locked, it's already been said that late syncing alone isn't reason enough for a flag so anything further is really at this point going around in circles.

 

[Starcade_Legend]

5 hours ago, BB-BakkerJ said:

Most stupid thing I’ve read today.
 

And this is why I think either members shouldn’t be able to report at all anymore or at least give some sort of penalty if you report someone wrongfully. Like not being able to report for another year. Now correct me if I’m wrong but I have the feeling many people are just reporting based on a hunch or don’t actually know enough about the game.

You should always be absolutely sure if you’re going to report someone.

 

An absolute lowpoint was in a recent dispute where the game reported was questionable and a member asked ‘well should I just report some other games on his profile’ and than a Mod came in and said yes, just flag away. Fucking ridiculous.

 

And about the poll. Voted no ofcourse.
 

@Thropy_Croissant said it well. I’d also rather see a couple of cheaters get away instead of someone innocent getting wrongfully flagged.

I don’t have an opinion on your gauge of what has been the stupidest things you’ve read all day.  Sounds good.

 

What I WILL judge is how you and a high number of members trying *DESPERATELY* to make ‘less rules’ a seemingly morality issue.

 

You’ve had stipulations on your own game saves being used (WITH or WITHOUT proof of it actually being your own save, by the way).  You’ve had flags handed down because you messed up and...played Black Ops 2 Online.  Hell, I’ve read in the disputes section of someone who played Super Meat Boy really fast, and the flag stuck because...’I don’t believe you’.  To have a full blown rule, nothing convoluted and clearly seen by all members, that you can’t suddenly sync trophies outside of a year for the leaderboards is ‘the most stupidest thing you’ve read today’?

 

Seems legit.

 

The reality of it is: this is a back door that would be closed with a rule change of limited sync time.  It’s not anymore outrageous or ‘stupid’ than the rules already in place.

 

P.S.  I have never reported anyone.  Not saying someone should or shouldn’t file a report; just saying that that’s not my thing.  And coincidentally, I just discovered someone hacked/cheated/CFW/game saved MW3 on my friends list, a few hours ago.  I won’t lie, though...I did have a ‘Oh HELL no!’ moment...?

[grimydawg___]

20 minutes ago, Velvet said:

 

Is that the same excuse you tell the rest of the CRT when you explain to them why you mass approved illegitimate flags and then leave them to clean up the mess? 

Another person talking who's clueless.  What a surprise.  Sometimes I'll knock out 200 reports and I might mess up one.  Oh well. It happens. Believe it or not, we do have discussions almost daily....

Edited May 28, 2020 by grimydawg___

[Starcade_Legend]

5 hours ago, B1rvine said:

 

I'll post my final thoughts on this topic using the same response I made to @Sergen's topic.

 

 

Every flag on this website needs to be lifted to "guarantee 100%" that nobody innocent was flagged. Without some better, and defined rules, late syncing can always be pointed to as a loop hole around all of the current established rules.

 

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

[majob]

2 hours ago, Starcade_Legend said:

 

You entirely missed his point. BB-BakkerJ was describing what he felt was the lax nature in what can be considered a legitimate report and I agree with him. Right now it's acceptable to simply report someone if you just "think" their list is cheated, there's no need for 100% certainty on your part when you report someone because someone thought "well if they're innocent they can defend themselves" was sound logic when it shouldn't even get to that point in the first place.  Everyone involved in this process is a human and humans make mistakes and allowing reports to be made based solely on assumptions only ensures mistakes are more likely to be made. Not to mention it makes it easier for those with vendettas to just start reporting their rivals because they got a faster time than them or some other nonsense. It's not about having a lax in the rules, it's about ensuring quality reports. The CRT are overwhelmed so mistakes WILL be made so a report because you "think" something is wrong shouldn't be acceptable. You should know it's wrong or don't report it at all.

[B1rvine]

 

5 hours ago, SpacebarPIays said:

This is so ridiculously childish.

Its very worrying that your reply was quite literally 'Half of them don't [care]

 

19 hours ago, zenovka said:

A website should not at anytime dictate when I sync MY PROFILE.

There is no perfect answer on either side.

 

Now that things have calmed a bit...

 

The point is, the community can't have it both ways. Should the community even decide? As PSNP has no defined measurement of "using CFW" in the rules, other than not to use it, no flag is enforceable due to loop holes that are always "naturally possible." This debate is about closing loop holes with clearer and spelled out rules. 

 

Rules are rules, and perfection is based on opinion. Rules should be "perfectly clear" however. The other big misconception here noted by your first response; PSNProfiles is not dictating how you sync or use your profile, rather it can choose what's eligible for its leaderboard, possibly including how you sync. There's a difference. Technically, it already dictates how you sync, since you're not allowed to transfer your own save file and sync on a second console and create impossible timestamps. 

 

So, the dispute in question is justified in being lifted.

 

As far as my mention of CRT members "not caring", I was referring to their stance on this debate, not their competence or commitment to handling things. MMDE thinks clearer rules aren't better, I'm of the opposite opinion, Grimy doesn't care one way or another, and Squirl understands the merits either way. (We all do.)

 

5 hours ago, Thropy_Croissant said:

Lol. "B1rvine"

 

Not exactly. Gionascm2 pushes every rule to the limits, and has already committed actionable offenses to remove him completely. He's just taking advantage of the three flag rule that was designed for completely different purposes, and he knows it. If you want to discuss other profiles, please point them out. I'm not perfect, but my guess is you're likely going to point to things that are more debatable/controversial on if it meets flaggable criteria due to loopholes, or something where you don't have all the information -vs- than what's actually wrong. Which, is what this thread's about.

 

4 hours ago, Mesopithecus said:

Maybe this thread has run its course and should just be locked

 

Well, there hasn't been any answer on what should be definable CFW usage yet, and until there is, the community shouldn't yell foul if people purposely imitate / exploit that lack of a definition.

 

Edit : I also realize the community may not know what CFW side effects are, which complicates things, but enforcing stricter leaderboards can make our job easier, close some loop holes, clearly define things, and increase integrity. Yes, a downside is you have to follow a few extra rules "if you want to participate."

 

I'll refer to speedrun.com again : (in some games) They're required to record their entire run, with TV and console in view, then show their controllers, while attaching a heart rate monitor to measure their anxiety, show their in game settings at some point, doing silly things after their runs to prove its not a video, only then to have it analyzed by some mod to check the number of frames... I'm not suggesting anything like this, but you don't hear those people complaining "OMG YOU CANT TELL ME HOW TO SPEEDRUN MY GAME" since they understand the merits of being as legitimate, accurate, and thorough as possible.

 

All I'm asking for is to get slightly more defined and clear rules that close a loop hole, and I won't apologize for discussing possible ways to make PSNP (in my opinion) a better place with more accurate leaderboards.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by B1rvine

[breakXedge]

Answering the poll, absolutely NO. It's absurd, you should give proof that someone hacked. Syncing late? What's next, flag someone because he/she played at midnight when he/she should be sleeping? Come on.

 

I had several vita AS games like two months withouth syncing as I wanted to make FFVIIR my 300th plat and then continue with the vita trick. After a couple months or so, I just synced the vita and then went with FFVIIR. Is that a crime?

 

Also, I can understand how suspicious can be syncing a game you platted 10 years ago, but again, it's not your business. Maybe you can have your ps3 broken, unable to sync anything or even connect to the internet and then repair it, or something. You must prove that someone is guilty.

[Rias Gremory]

No. Just because people go "late sync" that doesn't mean people shouldn't be flagged for something like that.

[pinkrobot_pb]

I don't think this thread was a mistake and unless a lot of posts were deleted I think it's till pretty civil. I do think it was a mistake to attach a poll to what was supposed to be a discussion topic. It's like asking people to vote before the presidential debate has even started.

 

Edit: let's put in a "mutually inexclusive polls are stupid" for old time's sake. Oh internet, you have given me so much drama and entertainment over the years. I will miss you when you're gone

Edited May 28, 2020 by pinkrobot_pb

[B1rvine]

13 minutes ago, pinkrobot_pb said:

It's like asking people to vote before the presidential debate has even started.

 

Ehhh, maybe not the best analogy.

 

I'm pretty sure everyone knows right now if they're voting for Trump or not. ?

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by B1rvine

[PatinumNumemon]

I feel like clearly the answer is no, but the problem lies with old games that have online trophies that are unobtainable because of gone servers. Especially if it is a game that is really popular to have on your profile or it being a nice platinum. It is why you hear of people using CFW on Vita to platinum Super Meat Boy. It is a highly coveted platinum. Other than valuing legitimacy and pride in surpassing a tremendously difficult game, why wouldn't you do that? ? Now if someone late syncs some game like inFamous 2 and the dates say they did it a few months ago, it is believable, so he should be okay. However, a game like Black Ops 2 which has been the topic of controversy for ages because of Big Leagues, should definitely be questioned if they got the platinum in 2012 and late sync in 2020. It is just so highly unlikely. However, if you are really hellbent on taking the person off the leaderboard because you think of illegitimacy, then look at their profile. Cheaters can be successful in getting away, but like all other humans, they are subject to human error, and will mess up eventually. It really depends on the situation.

[DeepEyes7]

Some people is just answering the poll just reading the title on the thread, and don't understand WHY late syncs could be flagged and how farfetched need to be your late syncs for the flag to stick... If there will be an official poll some day (I doubt it) things needs to be explained better and not just throw a sensationalist headline...

[pinkrobot_pb]

2 hours ago, B1rvine said:

Ehhh, maybe not the best analogy.

 

I'm pretty sure everyone knows right now if they're voting for Trump or not. 

 

This year alone at least 16 presidential elections will be held or have been held across the globe. It should be a comfort to many that "The Blonde Adonis" is only eligble to run in one of them. And I challenge you to name any of the candidates in the other 15 elections, let alone make up an opinion about them

 

Anyway this problem will fix itself once PS5 comes out and Sony shuts down PSN for PS3. Then we will finally be able to sleep again, knowing that although the fun has been spoiled, at least it has been spoiled for everyone.

Edited May 28, 2020 by pinkrobot_pb

[Baker]

2 hours ago, majob said:

You entirely missed his point. BB-BakkerJ was describing what he felt was the lax nature in what can be considered a legitimate report and I agree with him. Right now it's acceptable to simply report someone if you just "think" their list is cheated, there's no need for 100% certainty on your part when you report someone because someone thought "well if they're innocent they can defend themselves" was sound logic when it shouldn't even get to that point in the first place.

This is exactly what I meant. 
 

@Starcade_Legend Sorry, could have used another word instead of stupid. Let me give an example of what I actually mean.
 

This week a exploit was discovered for DB FighterZ to get the 20 million Zenni in around 5 minutes. And look. Not a day later there is already a dispute because someone reported someone for this exploit. I just don’t understand that at all. 
 

I have a question for @B1rvine. What is the percentage of false reports compared to legit reports. I’m really curious about this.

Edited May 28, 2020 by BB-BakkerJ

[woggly4]

To be honest, I'm a little bit confused. Is (or should) this (be) a discussion about just syncing late or overriding wrong timestamps by syncing late? My understanding is, it's the latter. Personally, I don't really get why you would want to wait with syncing, because I'd be too afraid of a HDD-failure, thus loosing my already earned trophy. However, I understand that there are circumstances why someone don't want to or can't sync immediately, such as no internet or being able to test if certain trophies are still obtainable to not mess up your completion rate - everyone should play and sync like he wants.

 

But: Why on earth would you sync the wrong timestamps in the first place if you know, you want to wait syncing? It's you who decided to wait to sync. So, why would you change your mind on the wrong timestamps? I don't know, but there are very few occasions where you "accidentally" sync wrong timestamps, are there? If you decided to go the "syncing late" way, you would stick to it. Imagine, you want to not sync a list yet, but you are playing on a different console, thus popping with wrong timestamps. If you sync now it not only would sync with wrong timestamps but guess what... the list is also synced, so you could have synced your first timestamps in the first place. So, if you decide to wait, you know what to do, to actually wait. And it shouldn't surprise you that trophies can unlock this way, if you're a legit trophy hunter. It's your responsibility to be careful with your trophies if you own more than one console. It's not like lending your car to someone and when he complains about something, you go like "Oops, yeah. I forgot to tell you.".

 

What I want to say is: No, you shouldn't be flagged because you synced late. But yes, you should be flagged if you override your already synced timestamps. Of course, that is just my opinion. Please let me know if I missed an occasion were you - a legit player - needs to sync wrong timestamps, thus forcing you to override them some time later.

Edited May 28, 2020 by woggly4

[charxsetsuna]

2 minutes ago, woggly4 said:

To be honest, I'm a little bit confused. Is (or should) this (be) a discussion about just syncing late or overriding wrong timestamps by syncing late? My understanding is, it's the latter. Personally, I don't really get why you would want to wait with syncing, because I'd be too afraid of a HDD-failure, thus loosing my already earned trophy. However, I understand that there are circumstances why someone don't want to or can't sync immediately, such as no internet or being able to test if certain trophies are still obtainable to not mess up your completion rate - everyone should place and sync like he wants.

 

But: Why on earth would you sync the wrong timestamps in the first place if you know, you want to wait syncing? It's you who decided to wait to sync. So, why would you change your mind on the wrong timestamps? I don't know, but there are very few occasions where you "accidentally" sync wrong timestamps, are there? If you decided to go the "syncing late" way, you would stick to it. Imagine, you want to not sync a list yet, but you are playing on a different console, thus popping with wrong timestamps. If you sync now it not only would sync with wrong timestamps but guess what... the list is also synced, so you could have synced your first timestamps in the first place. So, if you decide to wait, you know what to do, to actually wait. And it shouldn't surprise you that trophies can unlock this way, if you're a legit trophy hunter. It's your responsibility to be careful with your trophies if you own more than one console. It's not like lending your car to someone and when he complains about something, you go like "Oops, yeah. I forgot to tell you.".

 

What I want to say is: No, you shouldn't be flagged because you synced late. But yes, you should be flagged if you override your already synced timestamps. Of course, that is just my opinion. Please let me know if I missed an occasion were you - a legit player - needs to sync wrong timestamps, thus forcing you to override them some time later.

That's why I want this thread closed because it was never about overriding old timestamps but instead syncing brand new ones late.

I think people have misunderstood what people here were talking about, I dont remember seeing any posts saying overriding timestamps were ok just that syncing brand new ones late shouldn't be flaggable. But this time I won't take the blame for that because I never argued that overriding timestamps was ok in the first place, this place becoming toxic was my fault but this misunderstanding is not my fault. 

[woggly4]

I see. Sorry for mixing things up and adding fuel to the fire.

[NamoPh]

This will likely get lost in the noise, but late syncing should never be considered adequate evidence for a flag on its own. Any amount of time set is going to be arbitrary, so there needs to be at least one more reason that would warrant any sort of suspicion and examination at all. For example a game whose servers have closed a while ago, or time stamps that have demonstrably been changed. Why would someone go out of his way to create false old timestamps for a game that's still obtainable anyway?

[ForsakenTHANOS]

23 hours ago, Sergen said:

It should be handled on a case by case basis. I am rather concerned that they could disregard evidence that proves trophies were earned legit but the person decided to sync them late... It's optional whether you want to sync your trophies on PS3 and similar to just hiding your trophy list, does someone get flagged if they have hidden their entire trophy list for a few years but return to the website and have a lot more platinums than before they were hidden? If I late sync I will also be providing evidence to go with it and if the game is still obtainable then people have the option to provide evidence themselves and my concern is the cheater removal team deciding not to consider the evidence and rather to keep the flag on your profile simply because you decided to sync later. A website shouldn't be able to dictate your decision to not want to sync your trophies, if the trophies are proven to be earned through legitimate means then no amount of time that the trophies weren't synced should be considered. I believe that late syncing for things that can't be proven anymore, such as syncing a game that has had its servers shutdown years after they were shut could be acceptable flags for late syncing, like if someone were to randomly sync the online trophies for Homefront to their profile today and claim they did the trophies years ago without any evidence to support their claim then I think the flag would stick but if they synced Homefront today and showed their online stats for the game from that time period to support their claim then I think the flag should be lifted.

I saw something odd on Psntrophyleaders yesterday where a player became #1 on the leaderboard and all of this accounts platinums said they were completeled in just of couple of minutes and some even seconds. I assumed this was all a hack or something. Could this be a case of late syncing/ hidden trophies? 

[usapro2017]

Some people take trophy hunting way too seriously.

 

It’s just a hobby/something to do for fun to kill time.

 

Nobody cares about your profile/what trophies you have earned unless you are Hakoom, Unknown or RoughDawg