(Discussion)should you get flagged for late syncs?

[MichMasteR]

1 minute ago, PrimitiveRetro said:

 

 

 

Ok let's say I am at 97% in my game right now.

Missing only 1 trophy and platinum.

I hack it and edit the time and make it look like a proper timestamp.all other trophies are proper timestamp and proper order.

How the hell do you find out i hacked it?

I have 45/47 right now.

I even have marvel 3  vanilla platinum so I could argue I got good and managed to do 480 missions .

Catch my drift?

 

 

You can't argue anymore cause you are admitting you can't do it legit and that if you get it, it would had been hacked, you are just admitting the crime before it happens

[Kishnabe]

Sometimes you forget to sync. Or you decide the next time you play the PS3, you would sync. That could be months later.

 

 PS3 used to take 15 min-30 min to trophy sync. It much faster now with the new UI. In the past it a pain to sync to the PS3. 

 

There are many reasons you can sync later. I voted NO.

 

If it is suspicious, you can snoop around their other trophy lists for any bad eggs. If clean, you let em go. 

 

@B1rvine Mentioned that the PS3 auto syncs now. Does that mean if you enter a hacked lobby by accident, you are screwed now. You can still delete profile and escape illegitimate trophies.

 

----

Not a late sync, Out of Order for some reason: 

 

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20160512134424/https://psnprofiles.com/Kishnabe   (In order with the Waybackmachine in 2016). 

 

Reformatted Vita I believe. Not sure why PSN Server put it ahead. Tried Private Profile, earn 1 trophy to sync. Did not fix it.  Always sort by trophy earned now.

 

Had an ending that was not Emma in Playthrough 2 (Emma was Play 1 ending). Replayed last part of Play 2 to get Emma ending to transfer to TOCS 2 for extra scene for EMMA. 

-----

[B1rvine]

17 minutes ago, Kishnabe said:

Not a late sync, Out of Order for some reason: Not sure why PSN Server put it ahead.

 

That was due to a notable time frame where lists could potentially move all around, as some weird problematic trophy syncing issues were going on. If you look at my own Borderlands list, I have the same issue, from the same month, which was already synced and moved because I was testing something for a dispute.

 

And I can tell the difference.

 

This discussion is more about creating better standards.

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by B1rvine

[hittheroadbucky]

15 minutes ago, PrimitiveRetro said:

 

 

 

Ok let's say I am at 97% in my game right now.

Missing only 1 trophy and platinum.

I hack it and edit the time and make it look like a proper timestamp.all other trophies are proper timestamp and proper order.

How the hell do you find out i hacked it?

I have 45/47 right now.

I even have marvel 3  vanilla platinum so I could argue I got good and managed to do 480 missions .

Catch my drift?

 

Yeah I got your drift the first time you said it. Honestly doesn’t really matter whether or not you have 0 or 45 trophies you still admitted you can’t get the last one so if you somehow get it now, nobody is going to believe you haven’t hacked it. 
 

If you want to hack trophies to inflate your count or whatever then you do you, but no form of hacking is going to 100% guarantee you’ll never be caught. Especially when you post on a forum asking if your method of doing it would work.
 

I personally don’t see the point in hacking trophies because nobody other than you gives a shit about your profile or your plat count. 

[RedSkyKing]

24 minutes ago, PrimitiveRetro said:

 

How the hell do you find out i hacked it?

 

 

How would we find out? Well you’re basically saying in detail how you plan to hack it lol.

[charxsetsuna]

6 minutes ago, RedSkyKing said:

 

How would we find out? Well you’re basically saying in detail how you plan to hack it lol.

I think the point he may be trying to make is that you never know if someone has hacked a last trophy. How could you possibly tell, that or he just stated he would cheat in a forum putting a target on his back for CRT.

 

I suggest we get back on track anyways

[Mesopithecus]

There are so many legitimate reasons why someone might sync late, that no I don't think you should be flagged for it.  Some of those reasons might be deeply personal too -  I had a family member who was serving overseas and played on their console offline whilst deployed for 9 months, so only synced when they got settled back home.  I feel like having to provide proof of that if they got flagged would be a huge overreach.  There are countless other scenarios like this too, there isn't a "one size fits all" approach.

 

To the people who think that purposefully late syncing is skewing the sites stats, well the stats have already been messed up (and are mostly arbitrary, like DLC rarity stats) for a long time anyway.  I mean, look how long auto-updating for some accounts have been turned off - there are a lot of accounts still sat on "updating soon" 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Mesopithecus

[PrimitiveRetro]

2 minutes ago, charxsetsuna said:

3 minutes ago, charxsetsuna said:

I think the point he may be trying to make is that you never know if someone has hacked a last trophy. 

 

Exactly. Thanks for putting it in an easier sentence.how TF do you find out i hacked my last trophy???????

 

4 minutes ago, charxsetsuna said:

I suggest we get back on track anyways

The thread is all yours guys am out.thanks for the your time.

[kanzenchaos]

I have trophies in a few games that I have hidden before updating my profile here. Should I be worried?

 

These are all of them iirc (the other hidden trophies were all updated here):

Wipeout Omega Collection: 50 Kills, Connected 1, Connected 2

Resident Evil Revelations: Dynamic Duo

God of War: Ascension: Blood Oath

 

Will I get in trouble if I unhide them and update my profile now?

[charxsetsuna]

Just now, kanzenchaos said:

I have trophies in a few games that I have hidden before updating my profile here. Should I be worried?

 

These are all of them iirc (the other hidden trophies were all updated here):

Wipeout Omega Collection: 50 Kills, Connected 1, Connected 2

Resident Evil Revelations: Dynamic Duo

God of War: Ascension: Blood Oath

 

Will I get in trouble if I unhide them and update my profile now?

This is the problem,  this ridiculous suspicion around late syncing is making people paranoid about a hobby.

As for your question, ask the CRT only they can provide a concrete answer.

[MichMasteR]

1 minute ago, charxsetsuna said:

This is the problem,  this ridiculous suspicion around late syncing is making people paranoid about a hobby.

As for your question, ask the CRT only they can provide a concrete answer.

 

Still,  why they should be worried...? Or even ask for concrete answers?

This paranoia as you said, needs to stop

[Hakoom]

nobody should be flagged for late syncing unless proven guilty..

i for example game on multiple consoles and i sometimes forget to sync for few months too because i sometimes just use alt accs on a specific console to boost online and forget about my main there.. happens.. we are humans we forget lol

 

even if i synced a trophy 10 years late.. but in that case you have to show evidence to back up your 10 year sync.. now with the ps4 its super easy.. you got every trophy saved as a photo and its very advanced in a way you can prove it..

 

with the ps3/vita its a different story and i would suggest anyone forgetting to sync something on the ps3/vita or is actually trying to get the plat before syncing to record it before doing so.. its a rare case BUT.. you have to look at this from both sides.. so its fair for both player and crt.. cant blame crt if you cant prove it too.. 

these situations happen in real life too.. many  innocent people went to jail because they couldnt prove innocence..

 

and this is my opinion ofcourse

[ZitMeatloaf]

Adding my two cents. I'm sure plenty of others have expressed similar sentiments (haven't read every single comment on this and similar threads), but when I look at my own habits I can see foresee circumstances where I wouldn't want to be accused of cheating, so here's another random guy's thoughts....

 

The dispute had trophies synced 4 months after they were earned. This was deemed "unreasonably late" by the reporter. Personally I don't think that's unreasonably late. I often go several months without playing my PS3, sometimes much longer than 4 months. (Side note to anybody who peruses my profile after reading this: all of the PS3 trophies on my profile earned after mid-December of last year were earned through PS Now, not on my PS3 console. Those trophies sync automatically once you close out the streaming game). I've got my PS3 set up to sync automatically once a day, but what happens if my console looses its internet connection and the connection doesn't automatically reestablish? It happens, and it's not uncommon in my experience. In those circumstances, I could play a game, shut off my console, not turn it back on for 6 months, and then get flagged for syncing trophies "unreasonably late."

 

Late syncing of trophies, with no other evidence of cheating provided, should not be a flaggable offense in my opinion.

[charxsetsuna]

9 minutes ago, ZitMeatloaf said:

Adding my two cents. I'm sure plenty of others have expressed similar sentiments (haven't read every single comment on this and similar threads), but when I look at my own habits I can see foresee circumstances where I wouldn't want to be accused of cheating, so here's another random guy's thoughts....

 

The dispute had trophies synced 4 months after they were earned. This was deemed "unreasonably late" by the reporter. Personally I don't think that's unreasonably late. I often go several months without playing my PS3, sometimes much longer than 4 months. (Side note to anybody who peruses my profile after reading this: all of the PS3 trophies on my profile earned after mid-December of last year were earned through PS Now, not on my PS3 console. Those trophies sync automatically once you close out the streaming game). I've got my PS3 set up to sync automatically once a day, but what happens if my console looses its internet connection and the connection doesn't automatically reestablish? It happens, and it's not uncommon in my experience. In those circumstances, I could play a game, shut off my console, not turn it back on for 6 months, and then get flagged for syncing trophies "unreasonably late."

 

Late syncing of trophies, with no other evidence of cheating provided, should not be a flaggable offense in my opinion.

I also go months without playing my ps3, normally at most it's a month though. I only got my vita fairly recently but I imagine I could go months between playing that.

I have forgotten to sync my ps3 before, mainly because I'm used to the ps4 autosyncing.

16 minutes ago, MichMasteR said:

 

Still,  why they should be worried...? Or even ask for concrete answers?

This paranoia as you said, needs to stop

Because they don't want to be flagged that's why, like it or not the leaderboards are a part of this hobby and people dont want to be taken off the leaderboard generally so they want concrete answers.

[Sword]

I saw earlier today someone mentioned the "unwritten" rules of PSNP that seem to randomly get applied to some accounts and not other accounts, at least from my personal experience browsing around. There are the obvious, very clear "You crossed the line" cases that the team deals with every day. But there are also other cases which seem like some accounts pass but some do not, which can be confusing at times. If syncing should be judged, I think it should be on a case-by-case basis with a very specific time limit that's very clear and written for all users to understand before someone has to prove the legitimacy of their trophies. I'm also personally not a huge fan of "guilty until proven innocent". In that regard I guess someone could flag my entire game collection and I'd have to defend myself against every trophy in every game myself, even though I have literally not streamed a single game/recorded anything? Sounds stupid, but that's kinda the vibe I'm getting with that mentality. I guess you could use the PS4 photo mode as evidence, but even that is a setting you can turn off. Some people may actually prefer to turn the mode off that (don't care about memories, want to save space, etc) whatever it might be. But then what about older systems too? Guess you have to record your gameplay or take pictures? Hmm... But how would you have known that 7 years ago when you were playing those games? 

 

I personally feel that full transparency would be best for all people for the clear and definite rules here on what we should/should not do and in the cases where something might look fishy, what concrete evidence we need to bring to the table (if any) to resolve those disputes beforehand. I don't feel that people should be judged based on unwritten or "feel at the time" rules. I really don't like the idea of walking around on egg shells because I'm afraid if I do something that looks weird I might be removed for some arbitrary line I crossed I did not know even existed. Part of the reason I started Super Meat Boy on my account instead of playing it entirely offline without syncing was because I did not want to cross some invisible line and get penalized for it. Some people told me not worry about it, others told me to always sync trophies asap because you'll be found guilty until proven innocent. I don't have any streaming/recording software at my apartment, so I couldn't prove I got these trophies legit. Again, very confusing feedback when I asked initially; so I just decided to take the safe route and play it with syncing even though I'm 100% sure now I screwed up my chances at getting a 100% account out of fear of late syncs on a game I know I probably can't complete now. Oh well, I suppose. Just a personal gripe with not knowing how this system works concretely. 

 

A far fetched dream I suppose, to actually get Sony to care more about Trophies and boost their internal checking systems. Then again, I suppose they are running into the same problem: determining real, valid late syncs vs. trophies cheated in with late timestamps. If only the world was perfect and pure. Hah. Not in this world, not today at least.

[hittheroadbucky]

I’ve seen a lot of people mentioning using PS4 trophy screenshots as evidence, but I delete all my screenshots to make room on my hard drive. So what other evidence can you provide that would prove you earned trophies legit? It’s not like your average gamer records themselves? 

[kanzenchaos]

Ok, so I have synced my previously hidden trophies and they seem to be perfectly in place, since they were already synced to PSN on time.

 

On other hand, a real late sync trophy I had from Watch Dogs got the game out of place on my list. So I guess I shouldn't have any problems with hiding games before updating here.

[DeepEyes7]

This is a very ambiguous question, I don't like the idea of getting a flag for a late sync (it is a common practice on PS3/PSV) but we need to understand that cheaters are using cfw to exploit this vulnerability, and I can't find a solution that doesn't make half of the community go out with pitchforks against the CRT.... Sadly, the only ones winning with this are the cheaters themselves since they can continuously keep changing dates for their liking under the shield of our right to late sync... It's not about being paranoid, if people want a cleaner LB there is some rules that should be implemented thanks to cheaters (it's the same problem irl with corruption, it is not to blame the law for harder rules, the ones that shoud be blamed are the cheaters that force their hand towards harder rules)... If you don't care about LB then why do you care if you are out of it for a late sync?... I just don't like the idea to be lumped with a cheater for a late sync =(...

[ZitMeatloaf]

3 minutes ago, hittheroadbucky said:

I’ve seen a lot of people mentioning using PS4 trophy screenshots as evidence, but I delete all my screenshots to make room on my hard drive. So what other evidence can you provide that would prove you earned trophies legit? It’s not like your average gamer records themselves? 

The CRT has mentioned that trophy screenshots are mostly worthless since they can be easily faked. Not sure I agree with that, but that seems to be their position.

[danceswithsloths]

7 minutes ago, DeepEyes7 said:

If you don't care about LB then why do you care if you are out of it for a late sync?... I just don't like the idea to be lumped with a cheater for a late sync =(...

 

You answered your own question here. I don't care about the LB or my place on it, but I certainly care about being accused of being a cheater for something that is not just possible to do legitimately, but happens on a regular basis. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by danceswithsloths

[charxsetsuna]

6 minutes ago, ZitMeatloaf said:

The CRT has mentioned that trophy screenshots are mostly worthless since they can be easily faked. Not sure I agree with that, but that seems to be their position.

They are worthless in some cases sure, but in some situations they are useful.

[ATTYYYYY487]

It's a weird debate, I don't see why it exists. 3 years ago I got the fastest 100% time in a game on an alt account where I beat the previous number one by an hour and 53 minutes. If I synced it now it would absolutely get flagged. I've seen some debates where it's boiled down to opinion and someone's been flagged without any proof. Getting flagged for syncing late isn't keeping leaderboards clean, it's being an elitist. 

[VigilantCrow]

I don't see the problem. Being flagged isn't the same as being disciplined.

If someone doesn't like the procedure, either go somewhere else or stop doing the action that causes the flag to get triggered.

 

Sounds like whining about a nitpick, for the sake of getting attention.

 

 

 

[danceswithsloths]

7 minutes ago, VigilantCrow said:

stop doing the action that causes the flag to get triggered.

I shouldn't have to change the way I enjoy my hobby just to avoid accusations from paranoid idiots.

Edited May 27, 2020 by danceswithsloths

[B1rvine]

4 minutes ago, DeepEyes7 said:

Cheaters are using CFW to exploit this vulnerability.

 

That's pretty much the issue in a nutshell.

 

The real question is "how should CFW usage be defined as actionable?"

 

Also, people need to stop with the mentality that not being on a leaderboard is "punishment." Not being on a leaderboard shouldn't necessarily mean you're a cheater, just that you haven't met the requirements of the privilege. Rules should also be malleable over time, as new situations occur, or for many other reasons.