(SPOILERS) Can we talk about how much this sucked now?

[ZZ383]

I as a non-fan of Final Fantasy am now less likely to purchase or play this Part 1 of ??? Remake. Due wholly in fact to it being a Part 1 of unknown amount. $60 for a third of the original story is not acceptable. 

 

I did mean to pick up the "Steam Remaster" of the original game when it went on sale but missed it by a hair. I'll still play that when I get my chance to see why everyone thinks this game is so great.

 

 

[DrBloodmoney]

I’m a huge fan of the original, and a huge fan of the remake.

 

I think the ending might be difficult to make sense of if you had never played the original, but if you have, I can’t see why you would be confused - it is based on you having that pervious knowledge, and playing off it.
for what it’s worth, I also like the combat system. I thought it split the difference between FFXIII and FFVII remarkably well. 

 

The story is changed a bit. So what?

The original story still exists - it’s there in the original game. As far as I’m aware, they don’t send men round to your house to take the original away when you purchase the new one.

Just taking the exact same game and giving it a graphical update would be a monumental waste of time.

The devs knew these complains would happen - they addressed all the people who were - painfully predictably - going to come out the woodwork complaining that there were changes to the story - they literally put those purist, die-hard ‘fans’ into the game -  spectral characters, trying valiantly to force the expanded and more detailed story back into the original mould, while the characters fight to change it.

 

I saw all the places from the original game. The characters, the music, the themes, the beats. My nostalgia bones were tickled - well and truly - and in a way I loved, - that was, to a certain extent, expected -  but more than that, my ‘new stuff’ muscles were also exercised, and that was a nice surprise.

[Conor]

9 hours ago, Astray404 said:

Actually four lol.

 

 I can't count and I don't know what day it is

[DeckBlack22]

In my opinion, FF7 Remake is too long. They just took the original story and stretched it 10 times. The game has a lot of banal dialogues, I thought the plot of the game was childish.

 

[RealDinoRider]

 

It's not a question of making "sense" of the ending.  There's very little to figure and it's pretty straightforward.  It's just sublimely dumb and textbook Nomura-at-work.  

 

If they wanted to tell everyone that the "remake" was not going to follow the original faithfully, that could have been handled with some interviews and disclaimers.  Instead, they hamfisted a bunch of Harry Potter ghosts into the plot to show you that the characters were being railroaded into following the original game's plot, and then *gasp* had you fight F-A-T-E to "free" yourself.  It's was an extremely clumsy breaking of the fourth wall and what made it worse was it was such a ridiculous and over-the-top Neon Genesis Evangelion style moment.  It was textbook Nomura - pre-pubescent fanboy silliness, with a gratuitous nod to the truly awful Advent Children

 

The combat system was okay.  I was actually impressed that they took the ATB system and combined it (more or less) successfully with an action game.  Stagger ended up feeling pretty gimmicky but it was sometimes interesting.  If it weren't for a handful of terribly designed boss fights, I'd have little to complain about there. 

 

Even the crappy ending would have been tolerable, however, if not for the fact that about 50% of the game's runtime was 100% worthless from both a story and gameplay perspective.  Forget about the oft-discussed sidequests (which almost all sucked).  We don't even need to talk about those.  Realistically they only took ~5 hours to complete ALL of them.  Let's just talk about the amount of time you spend walking down bland hallways/tunnels/roads, climbing ladders, pushing buttons, ducking under stuff and squeezing past loading screens.  I'd confidently guess that was 15-20 hours of a full play-through.  

 

It's painfully obvious how much of this game was just boring filler.  Though I have to admit I enjoyed most of the story and the characters and plot, by the end I was just bored and exhausted.  I didn't care anymore.  I felt like I was playing a ladder-simulator. 

 

Also Chadley.  That was unforgivable.  

 

[nudoetcrudo]

On 2/6/2020 at 4:40 AM, Astray404 said:

Tbh I don't have any complaints regarding the story. Revive Aerith? Fine. Revive Zack? Fine. Kill someone else? Fine. As long as Square can make the story solid and logically persuasive, I don't mind seeing a new possibility of the whole FF7 story. Making the whole game linear is not that bad if (1) Subquests are fun to play; (2) The puzzle solving is not tedious.

 

This.

Subquests are boring as hell, and gameplay becomes repetitive very quickly. Hard mode was such a chore for me to complete, not because it is actually hard but because it adds basically nothing except few fights (which could just have been added as post-game content).

No real sidequests and too much filler ruined this game for me (like the part with robot arms with Aerith). But hey, they had to stretch it out to make a "full" game out of a portion of the original...

 

And it's a pity, because I really like how characters were "ported" to the new gen, their expressions, their dialogues... 

I am more or less fine with story changes as well, but I have a terrible feeling that the story is going shit just like KH.  

Edited June 5, 2020 by nudoetcrudo

[DemonicDraco]

My biggest complaints are the forced slow walking and weird camera locks.. why is tv a black hole? And everything to do with the arbiters of fate.

[psycho_clank314]

As someone who did not play the original, I loved this game so much. It had a few weird pacing issues, and yes, the ending did feel "kingdom heartsy," however I had an absolute blast and look forward to the next installment. 

[elita0ne1977]

You wanna take one of the best games ever and split it up into 4 or so full length games , expanding on the world and experiences? You wanna make a few story changes so we’re somewhat in suspense? Take my damn money!

 

on another note , why does every single game have a post about how bad or disappointing that game was. Really starting to think this is a site full of hardcore gamers that hate games. 

[Lance_87]

They changed the story? Really? I was expecting to see Sephiroth at the end of the expressway from the moment they announced it would've ended there.

 

So yeah, nope.

[Alayaes]

I am one of the greatest fans alive of the original Final Fantasy VII. Bar none. My entire childhood was devoted to it in the late 90s.

 

But the Remake has left me disappointed. I don't hate it, however. At times it shines absolutely stunningly bright, but then it suddenly completely caves in and becomes difficult for me to pick up and continue.

 

Midgar has completely worn out its welcome for me. The pacing is horrendous and I find myself only enjoying the scenes that were from the original (with or without added touches). The extra content they've injected into Midgar I couldn't possibly care less about mainly because it feels like existing locations that are stretched too thin. I wouldn't have minded a little more about Sector 4, 3, 2, 1, etc. But instead, they just added boring, empty NPCs to existing areas while making you revisit them over and over again. Midgar is the same 5-hour experience it was in the original, just stretched out much more with backtracking and pointless dialogue.

 

I also feel that the writing is abysmal, but that's because I'm not a fan of anime fanfic. The constant grunting, sighing, gasping, and urghing does not translate well to English for me and it starts to bother me more and more. It's extremely unnatural human interaction and it completely ruins scenes for me. Not to mention, the cliches are terrible. Whenever a character I'm supposed to care about is dying we get this pseudo-sad scene about how they're happy in their final moments with some sobby last words. Please. If I could throw Jessie off the tower myself I would've. Thirsty child.

 

The inconsistency in logic is also jarring to me, as it is in most anime/anime-ish things. I am all for suspending my disbelief and encourage it, but the world then has to follow its own rules. FF7 does nothing of the sorts. Why is a person getting shot in one scene when in the next scene we show how bullets are all but pointless? Everyone has NERF guns in this world until someone has to die. Then they become lethal ammo. How many times is an enemy going to shoot at my feet and follow my trail as I run? And then we use hand rail as a barrier? Come on. Then Barrett unloads 5,000,000 bullets on things that don't even scratch the surface, but in the next scene, he literally blasts 12" thick concrete open with it. It all comes across as a bunch of teenage boys pondering in a room about what would be awesome at that very moment.

 

Or better yet; Tifa can jump 50 feet while doing backflips, but she somehow can't when she has to enter a receptionist booth that's 10 feet tall, causing me to have to perform a boring platforming sequence that's not platforming at all but just a really long load screen. Really?

 

These are some of my grievances. Again, it's a good game and the battle system has grown on me, but I doubt I'll ever play it again after I platinum. I still play the original every year from start to finish. It felt much more grounded and mature, in a way, as opposed to this Kingdom Hearts-y anime stuff.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Alayaes

[AJ_-_808]

16 minutes ago, Alayaes said:

The inconsistency in logic is also jarring to me, as it is in most anime/anime-ish things. I am all for suspending my disbelief and encourage it, but the world then has to follow its own rules. FF7 does nothing of the sorts. Why is a person getting shot in one scene when in the next scene we show how bullets are all but pointless? Everyone has NERF guns in this world until someone has to die. Then they become lethal ammo. How many times is an enemy going to shoot at my feet and follow my trail as I run? And then we use hand rail as a barrier? Come on. Then Barrett unloads 5,000,000 bullets on things that don't even scratch the surface, but in the next scene, he literally blasts 12" thick concrete open with it. It all comes across as a bunch of teenage boys pondering in a room about what would be awesome at that very moment.

 

This is only in practically every single game that has your character attacked by a gun or blade

 

That's like complaining Aerith shouldnt have died in the original because she was shot and stabbed plenty in combat up to that point.

[elita0ne1977]

So you played a game that features a guy wielding a 800 lb sword with one hand , another guy that has a Gatling gun for an arm as well as talking dog/wolf with fire on his tail and then complain that it’s too anime? For real?

[Alayaes]

1 hour ago, AJ_-_808 said:

 

This is only in practically every single game that has your character attacked by a gun or blade

 

That's like complaining Aerith shouldnt have died in the original because she was shot and stabbed plenty in combat up to that point.

I disagree. I find that if it's subtle or rarer then it's more easily acceptable. Even as a child, I did ask myself why we couldn't just use a Phoenix Down on Aeris, but it was fine because it wasn't happening every 10 minutes. In FF7R, Barrett literally shoots at stuff CONSTANTLY and it does NOTHING. How long did he shoot at the TV screen during the pillar scene? It looks so pointless and silly, lol. Or a scene that has Tifa dangling from light fixtures to leap into the receptionist kiosk, only to fall 10' and say "I was sure I was going to die". Really? We're supposed to feel thrilled as the player that Tifa is in danger, but it's ridiculous because she falls from 50'+ all the time while leaping even higher herself—all effortless. It removes all stakes and it makes it hard to be invested when your characters have superhuman abilities in one scene (because "it's cool") followed by the same situation suddenly causing our characters to supposedly be in danger during the next scene.

 

In the original, you were in danger at the end of Midgar. You were a failed rebel group that lost most of its members, low level, barely hanging on by a thread with barely any knowledge of Materia, weaponry, combat, or anything. On top of that, you were supposed to go out into the big world to chase an enemy we've only heard about/seen the consequences of without heavy exposition. It's a build-up that's subtle, mysterious, and fantastic. Now you're a group of superhumans, and one holy clairvoyant saint, that's constantly having to be reminded just how big and bad Sephiroth is in case you forgot to feel threatened because of the Firagas you sling around and Godlike status you've attained.

 

I do complain that it's too anime because it feels like it was made by teenage boys for teenage boys. The leap in technology has only harmed JRPGs, in my opinion, because it further honed in on just how corny and cheesy it all is. Text blocks just didn't have the ability to make things as awkward as voices, especially when the English localization team tries to be Japanese. Anime =/= unrealistic. It's the presentation and the emphasis on particular elements. It's the thirsty women that drool over the main character for no reason. It's the over-the-top nonsense and melodramatic acting in every scene. It's the awkward gestures and weird emotional outbursts that happen randomly. His 800-lbs sword isn't the problem. It's when he suddenly loses that fantastical strength 5 minutes later. 

 

And when he doesn't take it off when you climb up an airduct. That was goofy. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Alayaes

[Fish613]

On 6/1/2020 at 7:42 PM, Lan Stee said:

 

Three sentences. You demolished his entire rant in only three sentences. I'm shook.

Not really. That guy's comment was the first time I heard/read anyone/where even mention that they took the word "remake" as in changing the story. And besides, RPG are beloved for their stories. I never played FFVII. My first FF was FFX and i do love that game. But if they did a remake of FFX and changed the story, that would bug the crap out of me. Like i said, i never played VII, but i know one huge reason it has such a giant fan base is because of the story. So to change that up seems kind of messed up. But i'd say my opinion doesn't count for too much, since like I said, i never played VII. 

[Conor]

13 minutes ago, Fish613 said:

Not really. That guy's comment was the first time I heard/read anyone/where even mention that they took the word "remake" as in changing the story. And besides, RPG are beloved for their stories. I never played FFVII. My first FF was FFX and i do love that game. But if they did a remake of FFX and changed the story, that would bug the crap out of me. Like i said, i never played VII, but i know one huge reason it has such a giant fan base is because of the story. So to change that up seems kind of messed up. But i'd say my opinion doesn't count for too much, since like I said, i never played VII. 

 

"Remake" does not necessarily mean a 1:1 reconstruction although it can be (look up some films that are considered remakes of older ones and you'll see that some of them follow exactly while others take great liberties with the source material), and they never said it was going to be a 1:1 remake of the game in the first place. I'm not blindly defending this, I was highly skeptical of many things about this game- combat, splitting up the original, expanding and changing the story elements- up until I actually played it.

 

FFVII is my favourite game of all time and I have no problems with them changing the story so long as they do it well. Right now, that's up in the air because we don't know where exactly it is going. If people have a problem with that, the original is still there in all of its unchanged glory. Tetsuya Nomura isn't knocking at their door with armed goons seizing all copies of the original FFVII and demanding you play the new one only. This remake isn't meant to replace the original.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Lan Stee

[Astray404]

3 hours ago, nudoetcrudo said:

 

This.

Subquests are boring as hell, and gameplay becomes repetitive very quickly. Hard mode was such a chore for me to complete, not because it is actually hard but because it adds basically nothing except few fights (which could just have been added as post-game content).

No real sidequests and too much filler ruined this game for me (like the part with robot arms with Aerith). But hey, they had to stretch it out to make a "full" game out of a portion of the original...

 

And it's a pity, because I really like how characters were "ported" to the new gen, their expressions, their dialogues... 

I am more or less fine with story changes as well, but I have a terrible feeling that the story is going shit just like KH.  

The Midgar part is actually a very small part of the original game (even a very small part in Disc 1), so I can understand why Square added amounts of sidequests, but it's definitely their fault to add those tedious and repetitive sidequests

 

For the story, when Aerith starts saying "Fighting with fate" I have a feeling that the story in the later sequels will become xxxx

[sephiroth4424]

2 hours ago, Alayaes said:

The inconsistency in logic is also jarring to me, as it is in most anime/anime-ish things. I am all for suspending my disbelief and encourage it, but the world then has to follow its own rules. FF7 does nothing of the sorts. Why is a person getting shot in one scene when in the next scene we show how bullets are all but pointless?

Because at different scenes, they have different HP. They die when the bar reaches 0. It's like that Megaflare you survived with high hp and barrier. I think a nuke does more damage than a bullet, amiright?

 

2 hours ago, Alayaes said:

Or better yet; Tifa can jump 50 feet while doing backflips, but she somehow can't when she has to enter a receptionist booth that's 10 feet tall, causing me to have to perform a boring platforming sequence that's not platforming at all but just a really long load screen. 

Or Cloud can pierce metal but can't Omnislash a booth

[Alayaes]

39 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

Because at different scenes, they have different HP. They die when the bar reaches 0. It's like that Megaflare you survived with high hp and barrier. I think a nuke does more damage than a bullet, amiright?

 

Or Cloud can pierce metal but can't Omnislash a booth

I also would like to add a difference between gameplay and cutscenes, where I believe in videogame-land a barrier must be erected to maintain consistency. I am okay with surviving bullets/stabbing/fire in combat because the gameplay wouldn't be intact otherwise. Again, if it stays consistent within its own boundaries (gameplay/combat) then I'm perfectly fine suspending my disbelief. In the Last of Us, I get shot all the time and bandage myself during gameplay. That's perfectly fine. The cutscenes are consistent, however, and it makes me thrilled when the characters are under fire because you know the stakes are high. If Nathan Drake can jump from a 50 feet tall platform, do 5 backflips, and land on his feet, then I won't feel nervous during the next scene when he dangles 20 feet from the ground pretending he's suddenly in danger.

 

If in one cutscene we can perform miracle A, but in the next cutscene we need that same miracle to survive but somehow we can't do it anymore because story, then there's no cohesion. Especially when it happens in quick succession. For instance, it would be odd when someone drops a crate that says 1,000 LBS followed by saying he or she can't carry a 200 lbs person. It draws me out of the experience. Just like I find it odd that we just shot 1,000,000 bullets from a helicopter that can't pierce tin sheet metal, followed by it suddenly being able to shoot an entire concrete staircase down to the ground in mere seconds. Good storytelling doesn't do that.

[sephiroth4424]

@Alayaes You must be great company when (if) watching Action Movies. I'd like to see Commando (1985) with you or a Jame's Bond movie

[Lance_87]

3 hours ago, sephiroth4424 said:

They die when the bar reaches 0

 

No, they don't "die". It's even more clear in this remake lol.

[nudoetcrudo]

3 hours ago, Astray404 said:

For the story, when Aerith starts saying "Fighting with fate" I have a feeling that the story in the later sequels will become xxxx

 

Same, even though this thread reports that devs said that they'll stick to the story. 

Given Part 1, and that one of them (don't remember who) said he would have changed much more (even already back in the original game) ... my expectations are quite low.

[FrozenLionheart]

Honestly the game in my personal opinion shows a lot of potential especially if being treated somewhat as a sequel to AC (could of sworn that they said FF7R wasn't going to be a part of the compilation then afterwards via the ultimania said it is now a part of it) whilst still following the main story and expanding on character development and giving deeper emotional impact in some aspects of what should still come I'm happy. I really didn't expect much from this game to start with and I was extremely on the fence with getting this game, but the battle system works with what they are going for in terms of a hybrid system, it felt darker as a whole whilst bringing in so much colour and vibrancy to Midgar at the same time (also screw the Tonberrys evil little ***ts in this XD). What really impressed me was the soundtrack to the point I bought the special edit version because it was done so well with the old tracks being brought to such a high standard in terms of arrangements (Jenova quickening was a great example of this starting off slow, and devolving into its original version with hints of one-winged angel in it) as well as the new ones also being catchy and powerful in their own way. 

At the end of the day the first game in a series is always a prototype and the 2nd game onwards bring improvements to the gameplay and content as the development team look at the feedback and try their best to improve the game in the way that the fans want/ them wanting to experiment a bit too much, though it always doesn't work for the best (dragon age 2 was a prime example of this). To me this is my favourite FF game this gen which I was really surprised for it hit that pedestal when World of Final Fantasy was the best FF I have played since X in my personal opinion for a single player experience.

[Alayaes]

4 hours ago, sephiroth4424 said:

@Alayaes You must be great company when (if) watching Action Movies. I'd like to see Commando (1985) with you or a Jame's Bond movie

I guess you haven't read anything I've said then because your reply suggests that you missed my point entirely.

 

I love Commando. Its silliness and unrealistic over-the-top action is great entertainment. You know why? Because it's consistent throughout the entire movie! Same with all James Bond movies. Imagine if Bond missed 90 shots and just couldn't hit a thing, yet at the end suddenly became a master sniper and no-scoped 50 guys without any explanation for the sudden change in talent? Yeah, that would be dumb.

 

Or what if the T-1000 in Terminator 2 at the end got beat up by John Connor in a fistfight and died? Kind of silly considering how the movie portrayed his resilience throughout, don't you think? Aliens is one of my favorite movies and the entire time the Marines and Aliens both are consistently vulnerable and capable. It makes the tension tremendous and you get sucked in.

 

None of those titles were realistic and nobody cares. That's because a fictional world still needs to establish rules that it follows. It's writing 101—something FF7R struggles with.  

Edited June 5, 2020 by Alayaes

[Matto_lsi]

On 6/2/2020 at 4:04 AM, MMDE said:

 Yes, that's how this makes me feel. They can do whatever they want, but it's certainly nowhere near what I wanted. I will probably play it, eventually. Kinda gave up on Square a long time ago though. It's just not the stuff I fell in love with anymore.

 

On 6/2/2020 at 4:21 AM, MMDE said:

 

I think nobody would have an issue with expanding the story, adding more stuff and fleshing things out, even including things that makes it line up better with some of the other games in the series.

 

The problem is the drastic changes. They're not small, they change everything. The original game even had some overlying theme, that'll just be gone now. The build-up of the main villain, gone.

 

I don't trust Motomu Toriyama, and now it's set up for all his bs. No thanks. No, really, I don't want any of it.

 

I loved the original.  I played it new when I was in high school and have played it numerous times since.  I recently played it on PS4.  I saved it for a while because I wanted to make it a special milestone Platinum (250th!).  The original is fantastic.  Since the remake was announced, I've been nervous.  Every bit of info I hear makes me more nervous.  After seeing the game, playing the demo, reading the reviews, and hearing the feedback from players like you (who are like me), I am confident I will never play this remake.  I don't trust them to not f--k it up, and from what my own eyes and ears tell me, they already did.  Even if this wasn't the 1st of 7 parts (or whatever), and the whole game was already released, I still wouldn't be interested.  Too many changes, needles additions and glaring holes.  But I'm certainly not paying $300 for a single video game.  People who say 'then just stick to the original'.... Yeah, I will!

 

 

38 minutes ago, Alayaes said:

I guess you haven't read anything I've said then because your reply suggests that you missed my point entirely.

 

I love Commando. Its silliness and unrealistic over-the-top action is great entertainment. You know why? Because it's consistent throughout the entire movie! Same with all James Bond movies. Imagine if Bond missed 90 shots and just couldn't hit a thing, yet at the end suddenly became a master sniper and no-scoped 50 guys without any explanation for the sudden change in talent? Yeah, that would be dumb.

 

Or what if the T-1000 in Terminator 2 at the end got beat up by John Connor in a fistfight and died? Kind of silly considering how the movie portrayed his resilience throughout, don't you think? Aliens is one of my favorite movies and the entire time the Marines and Aliens both are consistently vulnerable and capable. It makes the tension tremendous and you get sucked in.

 

None of those titles were realistic and nobody cares. That's because a fictional world still needs to establish rules that it follows. It's writing 101—something FF7R struggles with.  

 

I love the point you're making here.  It's a very valid and pertinent point.  I wish others could hear what you're saying instead of defending a game just for... reasons.  It makes me think of Last Action Hero (if you've seen it?  If not... spoilers!) when Jack gets shot and is in severe pain, losing blood and dying and is so confused until he returns to the screen and his captain tells him it's only a flesh wound and he needs to walk it off.  Mediocre movie, but one of the best examples of self-acknowledgement of the silliness in action movies when it comes to injury and bodily harm.