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10/10 (no spoilers)


Valkirye22

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Just finished it after around 28 hours. It is amazing and makes me think to never take other people seriously. 2s and 3s are just plain stupid. If this game is a 2 then what would you give a 10?

 

The story kept me gripped throughout and I liked the direction. Would love to see more of this series in future.

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On 2020-06-22 at 11:32 AM, Deluziion90 said:

7.5-8/10 for me.

 

-2 for two reasons:

 

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- I didn't mind Joel dying but he got slaughtered and spit on like cmon a bit too much for a beloved character this isn't fucking Game of Thrones.

 

- Because the above reason I had to play the other half of the game with Abby. A person I disliked a lot it's like playing God of War and hating Kratos it makes no sense. I just kept through it for the platinum and I wanted to give it a chance to see the ending but that dissapointed me as well. They only had to do 2 things. Let us kill Abby and when returning to the farm Dina should have been there and it would be a "ok" ending.

 

I respect your opinion but your first reason Is something I’ve been seeing quite a bit online and don’t seem to understand. I don’t know how to hide spoilers so I’ll try to be as vague as I can out of respect for others. What’s so out of the ordinary about someone who’s killed many and even implied torture techniques receiving that sort of treatment in a brutal post apocalyptic world? I personally prefer this kind of boldness over the typical safe plot where plot armour exists. 

Edited by BrandedBerserk
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6 hours ago, BrandedBerserk said:

I respect your opinion but your first reason Is something I’ve been seeing quite a bit online and don’t seem to understand. I don’t know how to hide spoilers so I’ll try to be as vague as I can out of respect for others. What’s so out of the ordinary about someone who’s killed many and even implied torture techniques receiving that sort of treatment in a brutal post apocalyptic world? I personally prefer this kind of boldness over the typical safe plot where plot armour exists. 

 

Yes It's indeed very normal how to did it in a world like that but this is fantasy and why would you kill a beloved person like this they had this under control they are the development team that's why everyone is mad. They could do it anyway they want but they choose to slaughter him like a pig (you can make spoilers by clicking on the little eye on the text tab above :) )

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I'd rate this game with a 8.5/10. I'm currently on my 2nd playthrough. I may sound coldhearted but i didn't get that many feelings i thought i'd get. The flashback scene at the end was the first time a tear appeared in my eye mainly i didn't take the "keyscene" seriously as they showed this character in various scenes after this event. I'm refering to a trailer where they altered a charactermodel so they trick you into believing this person isn't gone. That's a decision that pissed me off. It is hard to go into specifics without spoiling too much but i can't believe that they created this game with all the different level designs, locations etc in just 4 years after uncharted 4 came out. Absolutely amazing. Gameplay is basically the same like TLOU1 they added a few details, which improve the gameplay and it fits perfectly to that game design.


Revenge stories are quite dumb in my opinion, that's why i don't rate this game as high as TLOU1 but as time passes you get to understand the different character motivation of each person and thats why this game is as good as it is. The ending is semi good imo. The flashbackscene saved it but the present time ending is disappointing. It would have been better if they ended the game 2-3 hours earlier, the first time you get to the farm (hope that doesn't count as a spoiler).

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52 minutes ago, Bunkerbudy said:

This I have been saying a lot. So true!

 

 

Actually i wasnt happy once i realised i had to play her for a long time, but the longer i played her, the less i hated her. I even understood her a bit and i definitely dont want to miss this experience anymore. Honestly they really could have excluded some of the content into a seperate DLC or even standalone game, so people weren't forced to play it when they just want to see ellies story. I have to say, they ruined ellies character a bit for me. I like her a lot less now, and that's a bit sad :/

Edited by westersburg
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45 minutes ago, westersburg said:

I have to say, they ruined ellies character a bit for me. I like her a lot less now, and that's a bit sad :/

 

On the other hand they still have Part 3 to completly redeem herself.

 

Also, maybe it helps looking more into her mind and struggles, I kinda think she knows she did some realy bad stuf.

I like to think that is why she just gives up at the finish line. The fact that she loses everthing in the proces is punishment enough for me.

 

I don't dislike her, but she got what she deserved and she still has the chance to show she isn't all that bad, just like Abby :)

Edited by Bunkerbudy
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19 hours ago, DeepEyes7 said:

Just take a look at the damage toll towards each character:

 

 

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Abby:

  • Joel
  • Jesse

Joel/Ellie:

  • Abby's Father
  • Marlene
  • A lot of fireflies stationed on the hospital
  • The fireflies got disbanded after that hit destroying all that they were fighting for to save humanity
  • Abby's Crew
  • Abby's Childhood Love
  • Mel and her baby
  • Alice best dog ever (and probably Bear)
  • A lot of wolves...

And after watching Alice, Owen, Mel and her baby killed, she went full of adrenalyne, kill Jesse but spared Ellie, Dina and Tommy (when Ellie told her that Dina was pregnant after what she did to Mel... I thought she was dead...)... Man if someone didn't get the most revenge here wasn't Ellie, it was fucking Abby...
 

 

 

She would have killed the pregnant dina and ellie if Lev hadnt stopped her. At least, ellie didnt know that mel was pregnant, so you cant blame her for that. That said, Abby never spared tommy at all, she went for the kill and thought he was dead ( like we all thought). You dont need to give her more credit than she deserves, she and ellie are pretty much 1:1 the same, thats pretty much the point of the whole story.They were both influenced by  a third party ( lev and joel via flashback), otherwise they would have killed each other without a second thought.

 

About the damage toll:

 

You forget that the fireflies started the whole conflict, not joel. They tried to kill a girl without her consent and they simply have no right to do that, no matter the reason. Joels decision is just as understandable as abbys/ellies. If they had given ellie back, they wouldnt have died. Both sides decided to kill each other and used violence to achieve their goals, joel just happened to win. It is really baffling how some people act like the fireflies were those innocent guys who got killed for no reason.

 

The fireflies were killed by a single person, while joel was killed by a whole group. Of course ellie has more enemies to kill.

 

"Alice best dog ever"

 

To be fair she was attacked by the dog.She had two choices: getting hurt/killed by the dog or kill him.  I love dogs but I wouldnt die to save a dog I have no connection with either.

 

 

Edited by GoDBoss173
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1 hour ago, GoDBoss173 said:

 

She would have killed the pregnant dina and ellie if Lev hadnt stopped her. At least, ellie didnt know that mel was pregnant, so you cant blame her for that. That said, Abby never spared tommy at all, she went for the kill and thought he was dead ( like we all thought). You dont need to give her more credit than she deserves, she and ellie are pretty much 1:1 the same, thats pretty much the point of the whole story.They were both influenced by  a third party ( lev and joel via flashback), otherwise they would have killed each other without a second thought.

 

About the damage toll:

 

You forget that the fireflies started the whole conflict, not joel. They tried to kill a girl without her consent and they simply have no right to do that, no matter the reason. Joels decision is just as understandable as abbys/ellies. If they had given ellie back, they wouldnt have died. Both sides decided to kill each other and used violence to achieve their goals, joel just happened to win. It is really baffling how some people act like the fireflies were those innocent guys who got killed for no reason.

 

The fireflies were killed by a single person, while joel was killed by a whole group. Of course ellie has more enemies to kill.

 

"Alice best dog ever"

 

To be fair she was attacked by the dog.She had two choices: getting hurt/killed by the dog or kill him.  I love dogs but I wouldnt die to save a dog I have no connection with either.

 

 

 

Yeah, you are right in some of your points, but you are missing what I was trying to say, I never said who was in the right, I just pointed what each character thinks of each other, what "she" did to "me".... And if we see from the eyes of each character what the other did I think that Abby has a lot more to seek revenge tha Ellie... Ellie doesn't care if Joel death was fair or not and Abby doesn't care if all the people that they killed were fair or not... Both of them were looking for revenge, and in the end both of them "forgave" each other...

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On 6/23/2020 at 9:49 PM, StrangeGuy_3000 said:

***SPOILERS***

 

A very flawed character that I liked died and the ending sucks cuz the hero doesn't kill the villain - 0/10.

 

For real though, the game is not perfect - unlikable characters like Jesse, Dinna, Owen, Mel, some of the cut scenes in Ellie's portion of the early/mid game feel bland.

But in the end this game became the second video game to make me cry alongside RDR2. The scene of Ellie sitting in the water by herself when the music kicks in at the end is what got me man.

 

I think a lot of people went into this game looking for particular story - they wanted a Joel and Ellie adventure part 2, but Naughty Dog wasn't going to play it that safe and make the game another 'not as good as the original' sequel. If you allow the game to take you where it does without arguing with it about what the game should be, it is a very emotional last few hours.

 

Also, why do people think Naughty Dog were trying to make you like Abby for 10+ hours? They weren't. They were showing you her life, the person she is and what her morals are. Mel even straight up says she's an asshole and ruins the lives of people she associates with, then Abby becomes angry because she knows it's true. By the time I got to the fight against Ellie, I still didn't want to kill her - that was the point - but I had spent enough time with both characters in this fucked up world to understand that they're both flawed and both just want justice for the people they cared about.

 

Anyway, I understand some people rightly don't like the game and that's fine, unlike the "Joel died wtf man i dont like playing buff woman" reviews. Neil Druckmann said they were telling a story about the cycle of violence... and they certainly achieved that goal, even if some parts could have been done better.

Well said, I agree with a lot of this

Seems to be a lot of people wanted TLOU V1.1 this time Joel taking Ellie to Ontario or Norfolk or something again. Happy-go-lucky Jacksonville for 20 hours or otherwise being unable to look at the world of TLOU - world that Joel most certainly did not do any favors.

 

I just finished my second full playthrough for the Platinum and I have to say - for me - with some flaws of course, this game is a 10/10. A difference between a 8 and a 10 could be down to personal preference to the story but if you love it is a surefire "perfect" score. But scores aside, I actually hope we get to see more of Abby. And in the end her story is hardly any less tragic or filled with loss than Ellie's was.

A cycle of violence like none other... and ND has my full trust in delivering when it comes to further incredible games.

 

Edited by Valkirye22
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It was so intense, brutal and heartbreaking, it made me cry. I loved it. It's one of the gems that make you feel the hurricane of emotions, without disrespecting the player and trying to suck out every bit of you in stupid drama for drama scenes. 

And the structure of the game did interesting things. I loved how the second part made me feel angry, though I could understand the different perspective and empathize, then less angry, but still I was scared and couldn't let go of how much damage was done to my girl. It was irrational and very sad. 

I just like how it's so on point from a psychological perspective on human behavior. And it saddens me to see that many people missed it and are saying that some characters act out of character, when all their motivation is actually understandable and feels human. Maybe it's because people approach this story as an artificial story that was written by the writers, and not just a story about people. I hope when they pass the stage of denial, they could see what I saw.

I didn't mention anything beyond the story, because all of that was gorgeous.

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For me this game is a 9/10. I love the story, the characters, the dialogues, the locations and the gameplay. Btw I had no glitches while playing.

 

It’s not very often that I can’t stop playing and then finish a game in just a few days... but it was so captivating!


And I know lots of people have a problem with Abby (understandably) but I really like her and her development. She and Lev were my favorite addition to the game and to be honest I was more on their side at the end than on Ellie’s side (although I understand her motives as well).

 

I’m happy with the ending.

 

Edited by anotherfangirl
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I can understand people’s frustrations at the Big Event at the beginning of the game, but I’d wager a good chunk of those with gripes didn’t really give the game a fair shake (or even play it). It earns its twists and turns and puts a lot of work into doing so. More than anything else, it is a clear evolution of the themes and ideas presented in the first game, and it absolutely fits as “A TLOU Game.” This series has always been about the characters first and foremost, and it is explicitly not about making you feel good. Ellie’s arc makes perfect sense if you actually engage with the things the game is trying to say about violence, vengeance, and grief. It’d be the ultimate bad ending if she did what the Metacritic bombers seem to want. 

Edited by JD-D2
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The setup is there to tell a tragedy that comes full circle but the story cops out and ultimately becomes a mess in its need to outsmart your expectations. Resulting in a story that is completely contradictory with any real thought put behind it.

 

I get what it wants to do, it wants to paint the picture that both these women are one in the same and how hate leads to hate. But the game contradicts itself by copping out at the end by not ending with the logical ending. That one has to kill the other for it come full circle and become the tragedy it is setting itself up to be. That if you really want to challenge your audience, you have to make Abby redeemable, likable and then conflict your audience by having Ellie kill her in cold blood resulting in tragedy. And then have that cold realization that vengeance will leave you empty. See the film Sympathy for Mr Vengeance if you want to see a really good example of how to tell this tragedy of a story.

Not to mention, the contradiction it presents. That one character can allow their hate to win and achieve their vengeance while walking away somewhat redeemed while the other loses everything even though she comes to the realization that vengeance is not the way. So what's it saying? Vengeance is justice for Abby but Vengeance is pointless for Ellie? So what point are you trying to make here? It's clearly not that vengeance is pointless when one person gets away with their vengeance and still finds redemption.

Gone is the setup that both women are one in the same and their actions will end in tragedy because ironically they both couldn't forgive and let live and in its place is something completely contradictory. It's like they copped out or tried to outsmart their audience and lost all meaning of the story they were clearly setting up.

 

4 out of 10 for story alone. It's a mess that feels like it wants to constantly outsmart its audience while becoming completely meaningless in the process. It's about as deep as a puddle.

Edited by danmann861
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I just saw a new review today that gave the game a 75 saying that the gameplay is the same as the first game. Like wtf? The ability to go prone, dodge, do aerial attacks, and much more changes up the gameplay a ton. Not to mention the new types of enemies like dogs and the new infected. Like it's not even a subjective thing the gameplay is straight up better in so many ways.

36 minutes ago, danmann861 said:

Not to mention, the contradiction it presents. That one character can allow their hate to win and achieve their vengeance while walking away somewhat redeemed while the other loses everything even though she comes to the realization that vengeance is not the way. So what's it saying? Vengeance is justice for Abby but Vengeance is pointless for Ellie? So what point are you trying to make here? It's clearly not that vengeance is pointless when one person gets away with their vengeance and still finds redemption.

And Abby didn't lose everything too? She lost her dad and her lifestyle to Joel and was forced to go to the WLF. Then when she gets her revenge it causes her to lose her friends and the guy she loves. Plus she continues to have nightmares about her dad. All she has left is Lev at the end.

Edited by Mercenary09
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15 minutes ago, Mercenary09 said:

 

And Abby didn't lose everything too? She lost her dad and her lifestyle to Joel and was forced to go to the WLF. Then when she gets her revenge it causes her to lose her friends and the guy she loves. Plus she continues to have nightmares about her dad. All she has left is Lev at the end.

 

Still more than Ellie has. Hell, the game implies that she is on her way to meet with Fireflies at the end. Or that there are fireflies still out there at least. So she got her vengeance, has someone to care for by her side and has hope of finding remaining fire flies. Hell, the new game plus menu kind of alludes further to that. Meanwhile Ellie loses everything for having a shred of conscience in the end? Yeah, like I said, meaningless and contradictory once you scratch beyond the surface just a little bit. The setup was there to tell a tragedy and they copped out what they were setting up.

Would have been way more compelling to me to follow through and present a story that has you actually conflicted about killing the other protagonist. 

Edited by danmann861
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1 hour ago, Mercenary09 said:

Well I mean Abby listened to those close to her at the end with that being Lev instead of letting revenge consume her. She could've killed Dina and Ellie. Ellie opted to NOT listen to those closest to her at the end with Dina. She chose to leave Dina and JJ and go after revenge again even though she had already pretty much left Abby with nothing. Ellie killing Abby wouldn't have gained her anything. It wasn't going to bring Joel back and it wouldn't cause her PTSD to go away. She had to get rid of that herself and that's what that last flashback to Joel at the end was about.

 

But she's already let revenge consume her once over and still come out on the better end. It's never made clear that she feels remorse for killing Joel. If anything it seems to paint her actions as justified. So what is the game saying? That vengeance is okay in some instances but in others its wrong and will leave you empty? 

 

See I could understand if she were wrestling with guilt as a result of her actions, but the game never really conveys that. Instead it plays a bunch of cheap parlor tricks to make me care about someone who doesn't seem all that conflicted about the actions that are vital to the actual revenge plot as we detour into a plot that feels like it should have been its own game. 

I didn't fall for it and at best I felt apathy towards Abby. I found her boring as all hell to play as. What could have been interesting was weakly handled. And the one interesting thing it sets up, that being the tragedy of these women being one in the same is squandered by a director who thinks he is smarter than a timeless plot.

The characters make so many stupid decisions that I was rolling my eyes more often than not. Saint Abby leaves Tommy and Ellie alive. Despite the fact that Ellie is literally yelling out "I will kill you" as she murders Joel in front of her. If anyone knows about the desire for vengeance and what it will do to you, it should be Abby. The logical thing to do would be to kill everyone in the room so that way there is no trace to be left and no one from the town they occupy can come after you. But Abby's "not a monster" by her own words. Sorry, wrong, you've stared into the abyss and become the monster the moment you chose revenge as being the option to begin with. You're a monster the moment you killed the guy who just helped you out of a tough spot with no remorse.

And then the gall to say "we let you live and you wasted it" without a hint of self realization in her own actions. Again, I rolled my eyes. Has zero problems killing Jesse and (presumably) killing Tommy but suddenly grows a conscience because Saint Lev (who also had zero problems with the actions before hand) suddenly waves the finger? Please....so much of this was straight up laughable. Why should I give two craps about Abby when they never earned it?

I've seen other revenge stories handle this way better and the one interesting thing this game could have done did not work for me in the slightest because it doesn't have the strength of its convictions to actually challenge the player in a truly interesting way.


I'm gonna say it. The strength of the first game is not the story. It's the characters. You come to care about those characters and grow invested in them after 15 hours or so of playing. That's what missing from Part II....I did not give a fuck about anyone in this game outside of maybe Ellie, because I think Ellie actually shows signs of humanity and unfortunately she's the one that suffers the most. The best scenes in this game are the flashbacks between Joel and Ellie. Everything else is absolute rubbish. Everyone else was cartoon. Jesse was mildly interesting but killed so quickly and without a care in the world that he might as well not even be in the game. Ellie at least has signs of guilt for what she does and has some conflict. Everyone else is just cartoon in the way they behave.

I stand by my thought, 4 out of 10. Was about as deep as a puddle.

 

Edited by danmann861
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