Valkirye22

10/10 (no spoilers)

132 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Mercenary09 said:

Well I mean Abby listened to those close to her at the end with that being Lev instead of letting revenge consume her. She could've killed Dina and Ellie. Ellie opted to NOT listen to those closest to her at the end with Dina. She chose to leave Dina and JJ and go after revenge again even though she had already pretty much left Abby with nothing. Ellie killing Abby wouldn't have gained her anything. It wasn't going to bring Joel back and it wouldn't cause her PTSD to go away. She had to get rid of that herself and that's what that last flashback to Joel at the end was about.

 

But she's already let revenge consume her once over and still come out on the better end. It's never made clear that she feels remorse for killing Joel. If anything it seems to paint her actions as justified. So what is the game saying? That vengeance is okay in some instances but in others its wrong and will leave you empty? 

 

See I could understand if she were wrestling with guilt as a result of her actions, but the game never really conveys that. Instead it plays a bunch of cheap parlor tricks to make me care about someone who doesn't seem all that conflicted about the actions that are vital to the actual revenge plot as we detour into a plot that feels like it should have been its own game. 

I didn't fall for it and at best I felt apathy towards Abby. I found her boring as all hell to play as. What could have been interesting was weakly handled. And the one interesting thing it sets up, that being the tragedy of these women being one in the same is squandered by a director who thinks he is smarter than a timeless plot.

The characters make so many stupid decisions that I was rolling my eyes more often than not. Saint Abby leaves Tommy and Ellie alive. Despite the fact that Ellie is literally yelling out "I will kill you" as she murders Joel in front of her. If anyone knows about the desire for vengeance and what it will do to you, it should be Abby. The logical thing to do would be to kill everyone in the room so that way there is no trace to be left and no one from the town they occupy can come after you. But Abby's "not a monster" by her own words. Sorry, wrong, you've stared into the abyss and become the monster the moment you chose revenge as being the option to begin with. You're a monster the moment you killed the guy who just helped you out of a tough spot with no remorse.

And then the gall to say "we let you live and you wasted it" without a hint of self realization in her own actions. Again, I rolled my eyes. Has zero problems killing Jesse and (presumably) killing Tommy but suddenly grows a conscience because Saint Lev (who also had zero problems with the actions before hand) suddenly waves the finger? Please....so much of this was straight up laughable. Why should I give two craps about Abby when they never earned it?

I've seen other revenge stories handle this way better and the one interesting thing this game could have done did not work for me in the slightest because it doesn't have the strength of its convictions to actually challenge the player in a truly interesting way.


I'm gonna say it. The strength of the first game is not the story. It's the characters. You come to care about those characters and grow invested in them after 15 hours or so of playing. That's what missing from Part II....I did not give a fuck about anyone in this game outside of maybe Ellie, because I think Ellie actually shows signs of humanity and unfortunately she's the one that suffers the most. The best scenes in this game are the flashbacks between Joel and Ellie. Everything else is absolute rubbish. Everyone else was cartoon. Jesse was mildly interesting but killed so quickly and without a care in the world that he might as well not even be in the game. Ellie at least has signs of guilt for what she does and has some conflict. Everyone else is just cartoon in the way they behave.

I stand by my thought, 4 out of 10. Was about as deep as a puddle.

 

Edited by danmann861
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Abby was my favorite character. I loved playing as her and seeing her side of the story. It's easy to hate her when you've only seen it from Joel and Ellie's POV. Also, her story was so much more interesting and fun to play, compared to Ellie's story. I didn't really like Dina or Jesse all that much. Lev and Yara were very likable IMO. 

 

Really good game, 10/10 from me. 

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*Spoilers*

 

For me, the entire story was incredible. 

 

First of all, the graphics, sound and game play is  perfect. Completely faultless.  

 

Probably an unpopular opinion but I'm glad that Joel died early on and I personally loved the way you had to invest so much time into playing Abby to understand both sides of the story. This stopped the game being too predictable and prevented a sequel of an Ellie and Joel adventure again which just sounds boring and predictable to me. I feel like that is what a lot of people wanted who are not happy with the story but this type of game shouldn't be about happy endings.

 

Despite growing such a strong connection towards Ellie and Joel in the first game, the story gradually made me feel sympathy for Abby and understand why she did the things she did despite how much everyone hates her at the beginning of the game. I actually felt a stronger connection with her over Ellie towards the end.

 

I loved the involvement of Dina and Ellie's relationship too, it was a great involvement of an LGBT relationship on such a huge platform which is rare to see. 

 

A really good balance of combat and story, a lot of intense and heartbreaking cut scenes throughout the game too. 

The ending made me feel somewhat sad because of the nature of the game, but I'm glad that Ellie and Abby both survived and parted ways despite everything that happened. I didn't want either of them to die as I felt sympathy for both. They've experienced similar fatalities with their loved ones in the game just in different ways so I think the way they stop fighting at the end and both leave is well put together. 

 

I would rate the game a 9.5/10 Fully exceeded my expectations and will be playing through it again on a harder difficulty for sure! 
 

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1 hour ago, Lewis99_UK_ said:

*Spoilers*

 

Probably an unpopular opinion but I'm glad that Joel died early on and I personally loved the way you had to invest so much time into playing Abby to understand both sides of the story. This stopped the game being too predictable and prevented a sequel of an Ellie and Joel adventure again which just sounds boring and predictable to me. I feel like that is what a lot of people wanted who are not happy with the story but this type of game shouldn't be about happy endings.


Agreed. Anybody that expected a happy ending out of this series is delusional. Take the first game's ending as an example. Yes, Ellie survived and that's great. But Joel basically doomed humanity with that choice. And we directly see that his actions at the end of the game had repercussions that directly cost him his life. In my opinion, that kind of death is way more satisfying than Joel dying of old age in his bed, or from being overwhelmed by infected. I don't think he made a mistake by trusting strangers, or giving his name. His mistake stemmed from what he did to save Ellie.

It's almost like his death didn't negatively impact the story that much, since the developers KNEW they still had to incorporate Joel in the story, in the form of flashbacks. Which help piece together the events from after the first, to where we are now in Jackson.

I do find it funny how, in the first game, Abby's father wasn't anywhere near as aggressive as he was portrayed in the second game. He just tried to tell you to step back. But in the intro of the second game, we see a recap and he pulls out a weapon and threatens Joel. That little touch was suspicious to me, and made me wonder why they made that change.

Yet people say the story is bad. I think it's more than a revenge story. Especially if Ellie inevitably forgives Abby for what she has done. Haven't got to the ending, but wouldn't be surprised if that's what people are so angry about.


If you can forgive Joel for what he did, you can forgive Abby for what she did. If you're capable of putting personal bias aside.

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30 minutes ago, Valyrious said:


Agreed. Anybody that expected a happy ending out of this series is delusional. Take the first game's ending as an example. Yes, Ellie survived and that's great. But Joel basically doomed humanity with that choice. And we directly see that his actions at the end of the game had repercussions that directly cost him his life. In my opinion, that kind of death is way more satisfying than Joel dying of old age in his bed, or from being overwhelmed by infected. I don't think he made a mistake by trusting strangers, or giving his name. His mistake stemmed from what he did to save Ellie.

It's almost like his death didn't negatively impact the story that much, since the developers KNEW they still had to incorporate Joel in the story, in the form of flashbacks. Which help piece together the events from after the first, to where we are now in Jackson.

I do find it funny how, in the first game, Abby's father wasn't anywhere near as aggressive as he was portrayed in the second game. He just tried to tell you to step back. But in the intro of the second game, we see a recap and he pulls out a weapon and threatens Joel. That little touch was suspicious to me, and made me wonder why they made that change.

Yet people say the story is bad. I think it's more than a revenge story. Especially if Ellie inevitably forgives Abby for what she has done. Haven't got to the ending, but wouldn't be surprised if that's what people are so angry about.


If you can forgive Joel for what he did, you can forgive Abby for what she did. If you're capable of putting personal bias aside.

 

Actually, in the ending of the first game, the surgeon does grab a scalpel and threaten Joel. You can either shoot him or walk up to him and Joel instantly takes it from him and stabs him in the neck with it! I finished it like a month ago so it's still fresh! Just looked up a video playthrough to confirm.

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Yep, Abby's father threaten you with a scalpel in the first game and you have to kill him even if you don't want, you can spare the nurses tho...

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14 hours ago, danmann861 said:

 

But she's already let revenge consume her once over and still come out on the better end. It's never made clear that she feels remorse for killing Joel. If anything it seems to paint her actions as justified. So what is the game saying? That vengeance is okay in some instances but in others its wrong and will leave you empty? 

 

See I could understand if she were wrestling with guilt as a result of her actions, but the game never really conveys that. Instead it plays a bunch of cheap parlor tricks to make me care about someone who doesn't seem all that conflicted about the actions that are vital to the actual revenge plot as we detour into a plot that feels like it should have been its own game. 

I didn't fall for it and at best I felt apathy towards Abby. I found her boring as all hell to play as. What could have been interesting was weakly handled. And the one interesting thing it sets up, that being the tragedy of these women being one in the same is squandered by a director who thinks he is smarter than a timeless plot.

The characters make so many stupid decisions that I was rolling my eyes more often than not. Saint Abby leaves Tommy and Ellie alive. Despite the fact that Ellie is literally yelling out "I will kill you" as she murders Joel in front of her. If anyone knows about the desire for vengeance and what it will do to you, it should be Abby. The logical thing to do would be to kill everyone in the room so that way there is no trace to be left and no one from the town they occupy can come after you. But Abby's "not a monster" by her own words. Sorry, wrong, you've stared into the abyss and become the monster the moment you chose revenge as being the option to begin with. You're a monster the moment you killed the guy who just helped you out of a tough spot with no remorse.

And then the gall to say "we let you live and you wasted it" without a hint of self realization in her own actions. Again, I rolled my eyes. Has zero problems killing Jesse and (presumably) killing Tommy but suddenly grows a conscience because Saint Lev (who also had zero problems with the actions before hand) suddenly waves the finger? Please....so much of this was straight up laughable. Why should I give two craps about Abby when they never earned it?

I've seen other revenge stories handle this way better and the one interesting thing this game could have done did not work for me in the slightest because it doesn't have the strength of its convictions to actually challenge the player in a truly interesting way.


I'm gonna say it. The strength of the first game is not the story. It's the characters. You come to care about those characters and grow invested in them after 15 hours or so of playing. That's what missing from Part II....I did not give a fuck about anyone in this game outside of maybe Ellie, because I think Ellie actually shows signs of humanity and unfortunately she's the one that suffers the most. The best scenes in this game are the flashbacks between Joel and Ellie. Everything else is absolute rubbish. Everyone else was cartoon. Jesse was mildly interesting but killed so quickly and without a care in the world that he might as well not even be in the game. Ellie at least has signs of guilt for what she does and has some conflict. Everyone else is just cartoon in the way they behave.

I stand by my thought, 4 out of 10. Was about as deep as a puddle.

 

Spoilers below

 

The game portrays a cycle of violence, Abby had her (imho, very well grounded reasons for wanting to kill Joel - both personal and from the "future of mankind perspective") The question of remorse for killing Joel is a non-issue. It is that it didn't bring her happiness or closure, but instigated a cascade of death and misery to all involved. She did to Ellie what Joel did to her. And thus the dice rolled on. Affecting them both in terrible ways, and they both lost so much because of it. Joel's death is a hard pill to swallow, but it is their story and their choice. And it does work itself and motivates you towards what happens next.

 

They have no idea who Ellie is (Nora only realizes int he hospital due to spores), for Tommy they knew he was Joel's brother but - they didn't come there to kill anyone but Joel. They didn't expect for anyone to recognize their patches. They didn't expect anyone to know where they are from or launch a month-long offensive across half of the post-apocalyptic USA. Or even in that case pursue it once they realize how vast WLF and their resources are. They are not marauders or rampant killers - they came for a reason and with a purpose.

 

I found Abby's arc more centered and contained around her group of friends, relationship with Owen and her view and place in the WLF/Seraph conflict (as opposed to the prime driver for Ellie). In the end she does want to go back to trying to strive for better things - Fireflies and a way to bring the world back. Owen keeps reminding her of this, as is what her father wanted to do.  Jesse was a reflex, but a reminder of how little is required to lose someone in that world, Tommy killed Manny (similar to Jesse) in front of her maybe a day earlier, as is her anger over Owen/Mel with Dina. But she found some redemption and purpose with Lev and after everything they went through - so why do something that horrible to someone again with no gain or anything good coming out of it? Someone Ellie herself says didn't do anything. She realized this before Ellie and wants to stop, Ellie sees it during the final showdown, after seeing what the Rattlers are doing, what Abby looks like, what she left (farm), and through the flashbacks with the moments with Joel. ALSO her forgiveness for what Joel did to her by getting her out of there...

 

In the end they both lost just about everything, and continuing would bring absolutely nothing to either of them. They both witnessed the worst of humanity there (Island war/Rattlers), Abby found a purpose with Lev and Fireflies (letters to Owen in the boat Ellie can find) and Ellie finally came to terms with what Joel did and why Abby did what she did. Where they are now and just how miserable the entire situation is and what she foregoes (Farm) to continue this pointless pursuit. For me it was never a clear-cut "ok that is clearly the villain, go kill, good now story end" ordeal.

 

These are all my opinions and takes on it ofcourse, and it is a videogame story where everyone is free to disagree. I'm sorry that as a TLOU fan you were disappointed in it - all scores aside. But you do seem to lean on the Joel died so game is trash wagon and refusing to accept a developing story and new characters because the feel and general direction of the sequel is not a slightly altered copy-past of the first one.

 

For me it is one of the best games and stories I even played, and it is a believable, and fitting continuance of the story in this world. Like I wrote before, it is an excellent story (subjective) but not a happy one.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Lan Stee said:

 

Actually, in the ending of the first game, the surgeon does grab a scalpel and threaten Joel. You can either shoot him or walk up to him and Joel instantly takes it from him and stabs him in the neck with it! I finished it like a month ago so it's still fresh! Just looked up a video playthrough to confirm.

I shot the doctor in the toe and was quite amused to see him instantly die from that!  

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45 minutes ago, FFATMA said:

I shot the doctor in the toe and was quite amused to see him instantly die from that!  

 

Achilles had his heel. This guy had an Achilles everything.

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Killing the fucking doctor and the fucking Marlene in Tlous 1 was the most satisfying thing to do. They told Joel and Ellie they would have found a cure for the virus, but they all lied to us that Ellie would have died.

 

 

 

Oh God, what a wonderful day that finale

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I'm just gonna say that the best sequences in the game are with Abby. Some of these are breathtaking. I presume that if you're on this thread you've already played the game, but just in case:

 

Spoiler

Her scape from the Scars, the hotel, the fight with that big f*cking mutant thing, Haven on fire... Amazing.

 

Edited by matigrosso91
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1 hour ago, matigrosso91 said:

I'm just gonna say that the best sequences in the game are with Abby. Some of these are breathtaking. I presume that if you're on this thread you've already played the game, but just in case:

 

  Hide contents

Her scape from the Scars, the hotel, the fight with that big f*cking mutant thing, Haven on fire... Amazing.

 

 

I'm with you, the best parts are on Abby's route... Got my plat when...

 

I was starting to ascend the hotel, but how can I miss again the descent, ground zero and Haven.... Those parts are amazing... So finishing them all again.

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I've been playing for less than two ours and I already hate that bitch of Abby, perhaps because I played as Joel in the first entry and was very much connected to the character. Let's see how it keeps going because from what I've heard, the story might be the weakest point of the game.

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After finishing NG+ I think that I understand and like Abby even more... Sadly she probably will go down as one of the most hated female characters...

 

 

Revisiting the final fight I think that in the end Abby understood the silver lining behind her decision of sparing Ellie... If she had consumed her revenge she would be dead at those pillars, when she let her revenge control her actions she unleashed a lot of grieve in her life (Ellie/Tommy killing all her friends), but now, stopping the cycle of revenge saved her.... I hope that even in that dark moment that is Ellie in the ending, she gets the silver lining after sparing Abby

Edited by DeepEyes7
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9 hours ago, BlackSnake1435 said:

I've been playing for less than two ours and I already hate that bitch of Abby, perhaps because I played as Joel in the first entry and was very much connected to the character. Let's see how it keeps going because from what I've heard, the story might be the weakest point of the game.

For F**k sake man what the hell are doing in this thread (aside the first post) with 2 hours played :( Finish it yourself at least before you jump into the forums...

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Finished it a couple days ago, and had to take a while do digest it all. Such a heavy game. tl;dr: 8/10

 

Excellent graphics, audio, animations and acting, no one can deny that. The game is a technical marvel to look at, Naughty Dog outdid themselves. If I could split the 10 total points between 5 for mechanics and 5 for story, this one would already deserve at least a 6.

 

Story wise: I felt it was really great, with some pacing issues. The first main death is a bit dumb, it did the character no favors, but I get it was needed, and was ready for it. It had to happen sooner or later.

 

I fuckin loved those flashback sequences, it added so much to the characters. Especially Ellie, but I think she shines the most on late game.

 

Mid game, we got Abby. I was never reluctant of playing as her, and really embraced the character. Even though it's clear it was never Naughty Dog's intention for you to like her, I really liked her. The game took a heavy turn to show the two sides of the violence coin, and it added so much to the world. This game is really about consequence, you can't run away from your bill. Still, we're here for Ellie, so Abby's section felt a little bit dragged. About 5h in, I was already itching to get back to baby girl.

 

And that ending.. man, it was powerful. It was sad. The photography in there is so good, TLOU raised the bar AGAIN for what's possible inside the videogame medium. If the first one was the game that made me open my eyes to new heights of interactive storytelling, Part II cemented it as what will be my favorite hobbie ever. Fuckin long live videogames.

 

My main bicker with Part II, the main reason for my 8, is that it lacks strong supporting characters like the first one, who if I can compare story wise, is still my favorite. We don't get someone near Henry, Bill or David's level, and in a narrative focused game, it's a pretty big deal.

Part II side buddies, especially on Ellie's side shines so low that it's confusing. There's one chapter that I really thought my buddy was that unnecessary, and even the game took it away from me only to get back to it again out of nowhere in a really emotional cutscene.

 

Just so I don't close this text with a bad side of the game, I wanna point out one major improvement over TLOU: it's a hell lot scarier. There's some full on Resident Evil vibes, and in a special chapter I confess I tried to hand the controller to my gf because I couldn't take a step forward. The game is really intense, may your survival be long.

 

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On 6/22/2020 at 1:17 AM, Valkirye22 said:

I for one am glad with the direction they took, it's new, it's different, and it is gripping.

 

 

I agree. It was a very emotional journey. 

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4 hours ago, Valkirye22 said:

For F**k sake man what the hell are doing in this thread (aside the first post) with 2 hours played :( Finish it yourself at least before you jump into the forums...

 

Why exactly??, as far as I'm concerned i'm allowed to describe my first impressions of the game in the forums, after finishing the game, then I would give my review.

Edited by BlackSnake1435
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2 hours ago, BlackSnake1435 said:

 

Why exactly??, as far as I'm concerned i'm allowed to describe my first impressions of the game in the forums, after finishing the game, then I would give my review.

You are. You are also 5 pages deep into a spoiler-fest of a thread.. Mind you there are some valid points and story discussions above that might interest you *after* you've experienced the whole game. Do what you want but trust me this game is worth playing and experiencing without reading the tl;dr story opinions and spoiler after 2 hours played...

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1 hour ago, Valkirye22 said:

You are. You are also 5 pages deep into a spoiler-fest of a thread.. Mind you there are some valid points and story discussions above that might interest you *after* you've experienced the whole game. Do what you want but trust me this game is worth playing and experiencing without reading the tl;dr story opinions and spoiler after 2 hours played...

Yep. I stayed a way from all forums and discussions about the game until after "I PLAYED" the game. Until after "I EXPEARNECED" the journey. 

Then what ever you get out of it is fine. There is no right or wrong. These are one of those games that will be talked about for a long time. That is how powerful it is and how deeply it effects people.

 

Of course I am not talking about the idiots who just hate on the game to be cool and probably didn't even play it.

And watching someone play it it on Twitch DOSE NOT COUNT.

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6 hours ago, Valkirye22 said:

You are. You are also 5 pages deep into a spoiler-fest of a thread.. Mind you there are some valid points and story discussions above that might interest you *after* you've experienced the whole game. Do what you want but trust me this game is worth playing and experiencing without reading the tl;dr story opinions and spoiler after 2 hours played...

 Ok, i got it, however, I didn't read any comment other than the first one ;)

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27 hours in, just hit Day 3 of the Abby campaign. Can safely say that Abby is my favourite character in the game. While that might sound like I hate Ellie's character, I don't. I just REALLY love the journey that Abby takes. That ground zero boss fight was fucked up, but every I want out of this universe. Everything about this game screams The Last of Us. I'm STILL waiting for the story to be shit. If anything, I think the story has ascended to even greater heights. No pun intended.

The addition to Lev and Yara to the story is quite welcome too. I really don't know why someone could have an issue with Lev; perhaps I'm a pandering SJW? I find the character rather convincing, and I'm eager to learn more about both of them. I question how much screen time they'll get in the third day, so if they just ride off into the scar sunset, I hope Neil will give them a story DLC campaign at the very least, to expand on their story some more. Or include them if he ever decides to grace us with a third game.

I'm really having a hard time finding the so called plot holes that certain people keep crying about. I'm sure they are waiting for me at the end of the game, but I can already get a pretty good idea of what is going to happen. After traversing Abby's shoes for several days, they have done a successful job of not only making me care about her side of the story, but being able to emphasize for her fear of heights, among other things. 
 

Spoiler

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I wish I hated the game, so that Abby would break through my ceiling, wrap her gigantic arms around my neck and snap it like a twig. That'd be one hell of a way to go.

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After 40 hours, i finally finished playing my first playthough. I can understand why people didn't like the game, because it's to sadistic, brutal, and "REALISTIC". But that's what makes the game so great. We live in a time were people are to afraid to see the sadistic side of life. They are afraid to accept that part of reality. They want to be contempt with a happy adventure of Ellie and Joel traveling accross the country murdering countless amount of people, somehow surving with bullshit plot amor and having a happy ending with no consequnces. I'm sorry, but that's not how life works. Life is simply unfair, brutal, and a cruel sense or irony. Your actions have consequnces, especially in a time were people kill each other for "survival". Unforuntely in Joel case, he simply f**** with the wrong group of people. Do you honestly expect Joel to live a happily ever after for all the sh** he did? No, because his past will eventually gonna catch up to him someday. Which is why, I appreciate Naughty dog for trying to break the barrier trend of video games. Studios for the past decades have been afraid to pull the trigger to make a dramatic game decisions because they are afriad that the adudience will not approve of it. In which leads to games feeling boring and to repeptivie with no sense of urgency and consequnce. Oh look i murder  hundreds and hundreds of people yet i don't face any sense of punishment for my actions. 

 

The Last Of Us Part 2 is simply, way ahead of it's time. Our society has not reached to that point in which people can accpet that type of reality in video games. If peope have trouble accepting that Ellie is a lesbain and feel unconfrotable watching her embrace her love to another women, and distaste that lev is a trans. Then there's no way people gonna accept the hard cruel sense of life. Maybe in a decade or so people will come to terms to this part of life, but for now we just have to watch people trash over this beatiful master piece of a game. It's a shame, because the game does not deserve all this hate. 

 

Thank you naughty dog, for creating the this brutal but realistic world of the "Last Of Us". 

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