My take - even though I never played the game

[Kishnabe]

 

 

A good Story and gameplay matters. Characters that you can Understand. 

 

The most cautious person who would never enter a room without a weapon. Never give out their real name. Would never help someone unless it benefitted them. 

 

Broke all of that, the character is not the same one. A doppelganger.

 

Doctor Who retconing their lore. Exact same thing. 

 

 

 

 

[TWOLF2016]

Welll I like your review - and I am inclined to believe it -

9 minutes ago, Solarus755 said:

I agree that a lot of the "reviews" (since they're mostly 1 liners on metacritic decrying sjw themes) seem to imply that the game leans heavily into identity politics as the core theme of the game. These are also reviews from people who have clearly not actually played the game, or even watched the full story online. They formed their opinion based off of the promo trailers and leaked footage, which is a huge shame.

 

This is definitely a game that can be polarizing, but it's because of the narrative structure and assumptions that the game makes on how you'll think in response to certain revelations.

 

SPOILERS BELOW (if someone tells me how to black out spoilers, I'll edit, but for now, just don't look if you care about spoilers):

 

Jeremy Jahns gave what I consider the most succinct explanation for the divide: The writers assume that after playing Abby's section, you'll fully empathize with her position and understand why she did what she did. If you didn't change your tune by the end of Abby's story, then the rest of the story will fall flat, because you still want Elly to kill her and any other resolution would be hollow and unfulfilling. This is why people have one of 2 opinions:

 

1. This game is a masterwork of adult emotional storytelling, and drove home a lot of complex themes about good and evil not just being black and white.

2. The storytelling sucks and Ellie should have gotten her revenge because Joel is still unavenged / Joel never should have died in the first place.

 

END SPOILERS

 

I'm personally in the former camp. The afterglow is still wearing off, but I think this may very well be my new favorite game of all time. That said, I can understand that there is a short list of very legitimate criticisms people may have that might spoil the experience for them. The game being centered around SJW themes is not one of those criticisms. If you read the negative reviews, it's pretty easy to tell which ones have actually played the game and which ones haven't.

 

Thanks for that - I lean towards believing the game is good anyway - but you have a well thought opinion - and I will be happy if it isn't all about SJW - but I appreciated the commentary - its just I I want to err on the side of the user rating on Metacritic - I have a lack of legitimate trus in critic reviews due to the possibility of monetary influence

then I started to think maybe x-box paid for all the zeros which is also possible,. It has to be good though - right - everybody is talking about it. 

[Rias Gremory]

This is getting ridiculous.

[mackenzie129]

28 minutes ago, UltraFire121 said:

This is getting ridiculous.

Next up "I don't own a PlayStation here's my review" 

[DeepEyes7]

Man, this is getting out of control... I thought that we were above the "lesbian" part ages ago and now we were on the "they killed my favorite character" and "petitions to change the story" part...

Edited June 28, 2020 by DeepEyes7

[DeepEyes7]

Love the flow of topics in TLoU2 threads...

 

[Rias Gremory]

1 hour ago, mackenzie129 said:

Next up "I don't own a PlayStation here's my review" 

Yeah you got me. Big Smoke is gonna hear this lol.

[hore]

regarding the "diversity":

Quote

 

But here is my thing that I think people are missing. It SEEMS like its about diversity, but its really NOT.

Its about white women.

You go from playing an angry white woman to playing....an angry white woman.

Ghostbusters made a woman version....and the 3 scientists are still white women. The "street" gb is black, with gold chains and talks "street".

New Star Wars is about a white woman. And has a shit load of white women.

In all of these instances, the minorities are all token sidekicks supporting the journey of the white woman.

This is NOT diversity. This is just white women stepping on the shoulders of diversity to get themselves ahead to essentially fight with and beat white men.

Blacks, asians, trans, gay, bisexual, latino, etc are all being used to prop up white women.

Remember, me too didn't give a shit about black women or black men who accused white men of assault. They didn't want a part of helping them take down their accusers. This was completely centered on white women.

Fake diversity. Thats the missing issue that most (white) people seem to be missing in the dialogue about this game and this movement.

Everyone is like "I love this diversity!" or on the opposite side "Stop shoving your woke politics down my throat!"

But no one seems to be saying "this is fake and its more of the same shit, only about replacing white men with white women."

 

 

regarding the game's core issue:

Quote

The most revealing thing is when Neil sums it up with "what this story needed was a brutal cruel death for everything that happens afterwards". Well, exactly. Everything else feels like rationalisation for the fact that plot came before character here. Audiences are sensitive to things like that. People felt it in this scene, and I certainly felt it in other big moments where the game lost me. I enjoyed so much about the game but unfortunately some really big moments just felt fatally false. (And arguing that "we know the characters better than you" or "we spent ages working on this" is just patently silly. By that logic, any story that people work hard on is beyond criticism and if it comes across false to you, well you're just wrong.)

 

 

the extremists on both sides are cringe. game's a 6-7/10

[KRIEGLERR]

5 hours ago, Solarus755 said:

I agree that a lot of the "reviews" (since they're mostly 1 liners on metacritic decrying sjw themes) seem to imply that the game leans heavily into identity politics as the core theme of the game. These are also reviews from people who have clearly not actually played the game, or even watched the full story online. They formed their opinion based off of the promo trailers and leaked footage, which is a huge shame.

 

This is definitely a game that can be polarizing, but it's because of the narrative structure and assumptions that the game makes on how you'll think in response to certain revelations.

 

SPOILERS BELOW (if someone tells me how to black out spoilers, I'll edit, but for now, just don't look if you care about spoilers):

 

Jeremy Jahns gave what I consider the most succinct explanation for the divide: The writers assume that after playing Abby's section, you'll fully empathize with her position and understand why she did what she did. If you didn't change your tune by the end of Abby's story, then the rest of the story will fall flat, because you still want Elly to kill her and any other resolution would be hollow and unfulfilling. This is why people have one of 2 opinions:

 

1. This game is a masterwork of adult emotional storytelling, and drove home a lot of complex themes about good and evil not just being black and white.

2. The storytelling sucks and Ellie should have gotten her revenge because Joel is still unavenged / Joel never should have died in the first place.

 

END SPOILERS

 

I'm personally in the former camp. The afterglow is still wearing off, but I think this may very well be my new favorite game of all time. That said, I can understand that there is a short list of very legitimate criticisms people may have that might spoil the experience for them. The game being centered around SJW themes is not one of those criticisms. If you read the negative reviews, it's pretty easy to tell which ones have actually played the game and which ones haven't.

 

Joel is still my favourite character ouf of both games and one of the most memorable characters I've played.

Spoiler

That said I don't understand how some people don't think Abby was justified in seeking revenge for Joel murdering his father who seemed like a good man.  

 

It seems to me people viewed Joel as a hero just because we got his perspective first. the first game showed up that he isn't a good guy. And they did that from the very beginning before Sarah even died. He refused to stop to help that family while even Tommy and Sarah wanted and would have stopped for them, now I'm sure most people wouldn't have stopped and thought of themselves first, understandable but this is the first hint that Joel isn't a hero.  

  

Then we know that he was a "Hunter" meaning he and Tommy killed/robbed innocent people for their food and provisions, Joel says this to Ellie and we get the confirmation at the Dam when it is mentioned again with Tommy obviously stll not over what they did and even full of regret. While Joel is the opposite and think that their survival justified what they did. "This is how you gonna repay me, for all those god damned years I took care of us, you survived because of me " https://youtu.be/l1dkst9LjEI?t=7549  

 

I didn't like that he died, I loved the character so much and I think he is the best acted character , no disrespect to Laura Bailey or Ashley Johnson but Troy Baker's performance as Joel is just one of the best acting I've seen in a video game.  But all the bad he's done caught up to him. We really have no idea just how many innocent he's killed. 

  

 

 

[TJ_Solo]

13 hours ago, hore said:

regarding the "diversity":

 

regarding the game's core issue:

 

 

the extremists on both sides are cringe. game's a 6-7/10

 

The game is missing from your played list.

Your comment and NEO nonsense on your profile is rather telling.

[hore]

7 hours ago, TJ_Solo said:

 

The game is missing from your played list.

Your comment and NEO nonsense on your profile is rather telling.

not as telling as you ignoring the arguments and instead going off-topic trying to turn satire into sincerity in an attempt to discredit my post, just to soothe the cognitive dissonance you feel that the game might actually be poorly written

 

just because it's not on my profile, doesn't mean I haven't seen it all for myself. Regardless of how you feel, the story is bad because it lacks continuity. If you played TLoU1 and understood the narrative, you'd know that TLoU2's plot could've never unfolded the way it did

[lkmcn]

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