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[suggestion] Ban Self-Advertising (Threads)


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2 hours ago, turniplord said:

Wouldn't it be easier if there was an option to submit a video as THE trophy guide? That way it'll be placed in the guides section and not in the forum?

I think what I'm getting at is, can't the video uploaders be made to actually write an official guide on the site and then place their video inside of it?

 

A trophy guide will not be accepted for publication if it only uses videos to advertise their channel. Videos can be used as supplementary material for a guide, but cannot be the main focus of the guide.

 

Also, you can't force someone to make a guide. That'd just lead to a flood of more lazy submissions than we already get on a daily basis

Edited by Dreggit
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I've always been on the fence about this. It's pretty obvious when someone is just shamelessly advertising their YT channel by making threads and these have always come across to me as spam even before I was a mod. However, I do understand that we have to treat members equally even if one is more shameless than the other and I do know that some do watch them and find them helpful. 

 

I especially dislike them when there is little context or little to be discussed afterwards other than "Thanks for the video." or "It sucked." (which honestly, the YouTuber would probably rather have you say that in comments section on YT to help the algorithm to get them more views). It also makes moderating them difficult at times because we have to make a judgement call if someone is giving them grief about their channel or is actually providing serious criticism (which some YouTubers are sorely against because it hurts their image and some posts contain both serious criticism and grief).

 

I will say that we do take down threads that revolve around guides linked to other sites (keep those in your about me page/signature). We recently discussed this with a guide team member and amongst ourselves and feel like this is the best way to handle them. YT vids aren't treated the same solely because they are embedded into the thread so you don't have to watch it on another site.

 

I do think standards or rules need to be in place around this since a lot of members like to make YT content.

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1 hour ago, Dreggit said:

 

A trophy guide will not be accepted for publication if it only uses videos to advertise their channel. Videos can be used as supplementary material for a guide, but cannot be the main focus of the guide.

 

Also, you can't force soneone to make a guide. That'd just lead to a flood of more lazy submissions than we already get on a daily basis

 

Said laziness is probably what the topic creator is speaking about when he sees a forum topic titles "guide" but then only gets videos to an external site instead of a guide within the forums. 

 

To me making a post like that just circumvents the guide making process here. 

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15 minutes ago, TJ_Solo said:

 

Said laziness is probably what the topic creator is speaking about when he sees a forum topic titles "guide" but then only gets videos to an external site instead of a guide within the forums. 

 

To me making a post like that just circumvents the guide making process here. 

 

Most authors don't actually want to write an entire guide, but would rather only write a description for a single trophy. While we are considering solutions to alleviate that issue, for the time being the individual game forums are there for anything related to the game. Granted, I don't personally like when a thread only consists of a video, nor do I like when there is little substance in an answer that I'm seeking. What happens at times when such threads happen, the author has been denied publication due to a list of issues with a guide that was written. That doesn't mean the guide couldn't ever be published, just that, when asked to work on x, y and z, the author decided it was too much work and so then uses the forum as an outlet for whatever it is they want to show.  Keep in mind also that there are many games that have been published in the past few years that really don't need a trophy guide either... and yet people will write those guides

Edited by Dreggit
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At least make them say it's a damn video in the title, so it won't waste peoples time.

 

If it's not allowed in Guides proper, why the hell would it be allowed in the forum? It makes no sense.

 

As an aside, I'll add that a YT link with nothing else is basically spam, imo.

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1 hour ago, MMDE said:

What about the threads I've made where I discuss what I thought about a game I just played? I sometimes link to like some gameplay footage of it too. I do however know the threads you're talking about though, where the sole purpose is to go elsewhere for the main content of the thread. Like posting you put up a review of the game, elsewhere, and/or a trophy guide, elsewhere, and don't even care to port them to the site, because of slight differences in formatting, or honestly, just because you made them for traffic on your own site.

I believe there is a difference between sharing and promoting. Today seems to be all about the self-promotion rather than the experience-sharing that happened in the early evolution of the interweb. Now it's all about the "hits" rather than the evolution of the species. Like most of society, the web has become all about the dollar$ rather than about the evolution and education of its inhabitants. Although there are still those that share with good intentions, the majority are chasing the dragon and looking for either their next income steam or instant interweb fame.

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58 minutes ago, mako-heart said:

At least make them say it's a damn video in the title, so it won't waste peoples time.

 

If it's not allowed in Guides proper, why the hell would it be allowed in the forum? It makes no sense.

 

As an aside, I'll add that a YT link with nothing else is basically spam, imo.

I agree that IF it's a video guide it probably should say that in the title. But I don't agree with blanket banning all guides.

For example, imports has the best VN guides and whilst there are VN guides on this site, I don't feel they compare to the ones over there. So why force someone to use a sub-par guide imo when I know of a better one and can share it?

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5 hours ago, ThatMuttGuy said:

Agreed. It's kind of annoying when you see a thread that says "Trophy Guide" and inside the thread is a link to another website. 

 

I get they want to make money, but come on. 

100% this 

 

I tend to hate guide videos in general though, for every 30 seconds of explanation there’s about 3 minutes of pointless talking ?

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2 hours ago, Nitro said:

I agree that IF it's a video guide it probably should say that in the title. But I don't agree with blanket banning all guides.

For example, imports has the best VN guides and whilst there are VN guides on this site, I don't feel they compare to the ones over there. So why force someone to use a sub-par guide imo when I know of a better one and can share it?

Aren't you a bit biased for saying that as your footer states you're part of that site.

From the perspective of those who own this site, I feel it would be in their best interest if the guides were actually on this site, as that's one of the key reasons people come here and stay upon their pages. I can't speak for the mods and owners, but If I was in charge, I'd probably request the guides are replicated on this site, if you feel they're inferior on here, rather than simply pulling people away from this site and over to a different source for the same information.

It's like walking into a shop and just as someone is about to buy an item, you swoop in and tell the consumer that they can get a better version of it in the store next door, thus possibly pushing that person away from the existing store as they become a regular next door. Almost undercutting this site, in a way.

But, I'm a nobody so I have no say, I just feel it is a little strange seeing so many external guides popping up lately when this site's main purpose is for people to create the guides on here to go along with the trophy lists.

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4 hours ago, Nitro said:

Wasn't your website banned because you tried to rig a contest on here? Not to mention the rigged contests on twitter? Also why did you block me on twitter? :(

 

Oh come on, your a moderator on the largest digital account sharing site on the internet. That is allowed here still ........

 

I will agree with you though your site offers the best translated japanese visual novel guides. But translating is different from writing an original guide. There is a place for both surely.

Edited by AffectatiousDonk
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9 hours ago, Kittet3 said:

I love his video guides! I go search him up on Youtube whenever I want a video guide instead of a text one since they are done in a way that is easily follow-able. However, if he wants to advertise his videos on this site, he should make formal guide like others do- lots of people make games guides as poor guises to push out their youtube videos within the guides and I'm fine with that. It's fair and it doesn't clog up the forums. 

 

When I look up Rime, there are at least 20 youtube video guides. Do we really want 20 individual threads promoting these guides? Yes, we aren't at that point yet, but without clear regulations on self-advertising, we will slowly get there. 

 

Yes I see your point in that last part and I agree at some point. Maybe obligate them to work more in the post like you said, make a "mini guide" instead of just posting the video if someone already did that.

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I can't say that I totally agree with this, there has been some amazing trophy guides posted here on YT videos that it would be a shame if I haven't found them but lately it has been kind of annoying thread with "trophy guides" that just redirects you to another sites... So, it's kind of hypocrite from me to say YT videos are fine but links to other sites doesn't... But well, that how I would like it... (And normally on Ratalaika games the trophy list is just out and there is 2-4 threads with trophy video guides.... The videos has more work that the plat itself ?)

Edited by DeepEyes7
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I don’t see anything wrong with promoting, so long as it is an official guide. I make my own videos in my guides, it doesn’t mean I half ass it on the text, though. Although, imho Ratalaika, or however you spell it, games shouldn’t have guides, videos are more than enough. But, having a lot of them isn’t much help either.
 

I feel it’s a two birds, one stone kind of thing. You get traffic, but you also create guides that people need and are actually helpful. Besides, I’m not gonna make millions off a couple 100 views on a playlist. I have over 60,000 views on one playlist and I get zilch, ?.

 

There are also some guides that need videos like Fighting Games with all those miscellaneous trophies or challenges, as saying it via text isn’t as clear as a video. There’s also Skate 2, the videos actually show how to complete certain missions and you can see how someone else did it, which goes to show how hard it is to convey something that simple via text.

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2 hours ago, Roronora_Zoro666 said:

I don’t see anything wrong with promoting, so long as it is an official guide. I make my own videos in my guides, it doesn’t mean I half ass it on the text, though. Although, imho Ratalaika, or however you spell it, games shouldn’t have guides, videos are more than enough. But, having a lot of them isn’t much help either.
 

I feel it’s a two birds, one stone kind of thing. You get traffic, but you also create guides that people need and are actually helpful. Besides, I’m not gonna make millions off a couple 100 views on a playlist. I have over 60,000 views on one playlist and I get zilch, 1f602.png.

 

There are also some guides that need videos like Fighting Games with all those miscellaneous trophies or challenges, as saying it via text isn’t as clear as a video. There’s also Skate 2, the videos actually show how to complete certain missions and you can see how someone else did it, which goes to show how hard it is to convey something that simple via text.

I agree- I have no issue with videos in guides (well, I have some issues, but that's for another day). If someone really wants to post their videos, then I'm okay with them going through the effort to type something up and get it reviewed and posted. Same thing if they made a guide on another website - I have no issue with them porting it over and getting it reviewed the posted. The issue is, however, that people aren't doing that but instead just sticking a link in a thread and spamming the forums with it. 

 

EDIT:

On 7/30/2020 at 3:50 PM, DaivRules said:


The games that typically have video guides posted generally don’t have anyone claim interest in creating a guide. In the (two that I can remember) instances that someone creates a written guide for the site for those games, any video guides threads had been removed. 
 

We have also been reaching out to thread starters who only post a link to have them embed their content and give some context. 

Does this mean I can start reporting promotional threads for video/text guides if there is already a guide on the site? I went to a random game on my list and it has a trophy guide and the first forum post is also a youtube link. 

Edited by Kittet3
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Just now, NekoRave said:

I feel like this is the appropriate thread to drop my latest channel. 

 

Please sub and stop. by NekoRave on YouTube. 

 

Top gamer and steamer loads of fun and tits. 

 

Totally serious not a joke. 

 

Make sure to give me a 5 star yelp Review 

 

Thank you guys, you da best

I'll support you :highfive:

 

Just don't make self-advertising threads or I'll rescind my support.

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17 minutes ago, Helyx said:

 

I'm interested in these rigged contests, personally. Any comment on this subject @knoef_NL?

Interrogate knoef about rigging things somewhere else, I'm trying not to get my thread locked over here. :shakefist: 

 

The point with knoef that is relevant to this thread is why his posts and his website were deleted/banned from the site, but others can submit posts with offsite links to websites / youtube videos and not get removed. Does the site just not allow offsite links to text trophy guides? What about offsite reviews/articles? Why are youtube videos an exception to this? Even if I have the wrong opinion, I do think there should be more clarity in that regard. Davi made several statements of what the mods are doing a page back that I do wish was more accessible beforehand. 

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7 hours ago, Kittet3 said:

Does this mean I can start reporting promotional threads for video/text guides if there is already a guide on the site? I went to a random game on my list and it has a trophy guide and the first forum post is also a youtube link. 


By promotional, do you just mean any thread? I’m having a hard time finding how you’re defining that word. 

 

 

On 7/30/2020 at 2:46 PM, Kittet3 said:

sole purpose is to advertise a youtube video, offsite trophy guide, or offsite article written by the OP.


Promotional is any guide that’s not a written guide hosted here? So just external?

 

 
if there is a guide in the guide section here and there is a thread with a play through guide, go ahead and report it. If a thread has a specialized guide for just a part of the game, it’ll be left up, otherwise, if it doesn’t differentiate itself, it’ll be taken down. 
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42 minutes ago, DaivRules said:


By promotional, do you just mean any thread? I’m having a hard time finding how you’re defining that word. 

 

 


Promotional is any guide that’s not a written guide hosted here? So just external?

 

 
if there is a guide in the guide section here and there is a thread with a play through guide, go ahead and report it. If a thread has a specialized guide for just a part of the game, it’ll be left up, otherwise, if it doesn’t differentiate itself, it’ll be taken down. 

I believe the point of contention are threads that are only created for the reason of promoting an outside guide. Example below:

 

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5 minutes ago, PSXtreme_ said:

I believe the point of contention are threads that are only created for the reason of promoting an outside guide. Example below:

 


So only guides associated with a channel. If someone makes a guide, hosts it on YouTube, but doesn’t have a channel, it’s not promotional?

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No, I think that would be promotional...it eventually could be turned into one after-the-fact then you would have to retroactively be going back into threads and removing threads/videos...a moderation nightmare.

 

I would treat these video-guide-only-threads the same way individual posts that only have a picture/meme/gif with no other content. Video Only...delete. 

 

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