No Russian

[droppingtherock]

I'm curious what people think of this. After playing it, I read a bit about it and the controversy it sparked when this game originally came out. I'm also curious about what people think about the warning that comes up before the mission. 

 

I'm a veteran and I've mostly avoided playing the modern Call of Duty games because they're a bit close to home for me. I like the WW2 ones, but without delving into politics, my time in the middle east isn't something I've wanted to relive in a video game. The mission before No Russian puts you atop a HUMVEE in a mounted machine gun -- I actually did this. And playing this mission gave me a physical reaction in my stomach because of my experience. That said, No Russian didn't produce any such reaction for me. I'm not totally sure why. Perhaps the experience felt enough like make believe that I didn't suspend disbelief. After playing it, I can certainly see why they chose to include the warning, but I was a bit annoyed that they chose to include it for this level but not the others. To me, enemy combatants are still in some ways 'innocent.' You kill them because you have to and because if you don't, they'll kill you, but really they're no different than you. 

 

Anyway, at this point I'm just rambling. I credit the devs for making such a bold decision. Needless to say, it's certainly given me a lot to think about.

[RevengeancePrime]

I found it to be an interesting move to put me into that situation. We were still playing as a CIA operative working undercover, but it still created a sort of morally grey situation. I think the key difference between fighting enemy combatants is that they're armed whereas here you're just gunning down a bunch of unarmed people running and screaming for their lives. That being said, the warning is still stupid because we're playing a mature rated game that is clearly intended for mature audiences. 

 

Overall, I think this was a good mission implemented by the devs because I still remember it all these years later. The new Modern Warfare attempts to do something similar, but just fails at delivering anything nearly as impactful as this mission and even the campaign as a whole.

Edited July 30, 2020 by ObliviousSenpai

[Valkirye22]

39 minutes ago, droppingtherock said:

I'm curious what people think of this. After playing it, I read a bit about it and the controversy it sparked when this game originally came out. I'm also curious about what people think about the warning that comes up before the mission. 

 

I'm a veteran and I've mostly avoided playing the modern Call of Duty games because they're a bit close to home for me. I like the WW2 ones, but without delving into politics, my time in the middle east isn't something I've wanted to relive in a video game. The mission before No Russian puts you atop a HUMVEE in a mounted machine gun -- I actually did this. And playing this mission gave me a physical reaction in my stomach because of my experience. That said, No Russian didn't produce any such reaction for me. I'm not totally sure why. Perhaps the experience felt enough like make believe that I didn't suspend disbelief. After playing it, I can certainly see why they chose to include the warning, but I was a bit annoyed that they chose to include it for this level but not the others. To me, enemy combatants are still in some ways 'innocent.' You kill them because you have to and because if you don't, they'll kill you, but really they're no different than you. 

 

Anyway, at this point I'm just rambling. I credit the devs for making such a bold decision. Needless to say, it's certainly given me a lot to think about.

You can also walk through the mission without firing a shot if I am not mistaken, I 'liked' it at the time of release as a COD (read: not too deep) way of making you think a little bit about the pixels you are shooting and what/why are you doing. Personally had no issue with the act itself - in the end it's a game and the outcry was mostly people who draw the line at games portraying (not glorifying) things like this but murder, sex, and mayhem on Friday evening HBO is perfectly fine.

 

As for gritty/morally gray military stories I highly recommend Spec Ops: The line - far superior, truly thought provoking (just don't read too much into it and spoil it for yourself, that game is exceptional in that regard)

[Blood_Hungry_III]

3 minutes ago, Valkirye22 said:

You can also walk through the mission without firing a shot if I am not mistaken, I 'liked' it at the time of release as a COD (read: not too deep) way of making you think a little bit about the pixels you are shooting and what/why are you doing. Personally had no issue with the act itself - in the end it's a game and the outcry was mostly people who draw the line at games portraying (not glorifying) things like this but murder, sex, and mayhem on Friday evening HBO is perfectly fine.

 

As for gritty/morally gray military stories I highly recommend Spec Ops: The line - far superior, truly thought provoking (just don't read too much into it and spoil it for yourself, that game is exceptional in that regard)

You're correct that you don't have to fire a shot if you choose not to. I don't have a strong opinion about the mission one way or the other, but I think it was a bold choice for a COD game.

 

Like others have mentioned, it's been almost 10 years since the game came out, and it's still something that's talked about and remembered. I don't think it was vital to the game, but it's definitely stuck with people more than it would've been if they'd just used a short cutscene to tell the same story.

[PSXtreme_]

 

video game morality...the oxymoron of morons....

[PrimitiveRetro]

the most shocking part in the mission 4 me is at the end when Makarov shoots you.

pawpaw

[Sinastran]

I get that people think it's an impactful mission and want to debate it.

 

Personally though, I just like mowing down people in a video game. Great gameplay in that mission. 

[TOAST13TOA5T]

1 hour ago, droppingtherock said:

Snip.

I remember hearing about it shortly before the game released at midnight, i worked in a games store having the release and people in the line were buzzing and asking us all about it. I didn't have much of a reaction to it, i just thought it was an interesting sort of situation to put you into that I'd never seen in a game before and while i obviously don't agree with the context of it, i appreciated the step out the box it took and also that it didn't punish you for not participating.

 

(I just shot into the air above the crowd as it felt morally wrong to shoot into the crowd even though its not real but then again this is from a guy who has never even had the moral balls to blow up Megaton in Fallout 3 even though loading a save erases it essentially)

 

The thing that horrified me more was the coming weeks after when you had stupid bloody parents buying it for their 5-12 year olds, while explaining the mission and that they shouldn't really be putting it in front of them as the 18 Certification is justified; only to be told "aww but its his birthday and its what he wants plus i didn't ask for your opinion" ??

 

I also find your reaction to it very intriguing (as its a personal experience for you and it gave you an immediate physical reaction whereas game-wise its often considered a simple action; get in vehicle and man the weapon) I'm sorry it had that effect for you mate but thank you for fighting and taking that risk. I hope you enjoy the rest of the game.

 

(Ps i second @Valkirye22 's opinion about Spec Ops: The Line btw, parts of it even for most were very jarring but its an incredible look into the human mind as well a great game if you ever get a chance at it, highly recommended)

Edited July 30, 2020 by TOAST13TOA5T

[Kittet3]

This is probably the only mission I actually remember from a COD game.

 

I think it gained impact by having the warning beforehand. If that wasn't present, I would just have proceeded as normal without a second thought. But because they drew my attention to it, I stopped for a second to actually think of my actions and what impact they had in this (fake video game) world. 

[droppingtherock]

Appreciate everyone's comments. And thanks for the recommendation @Valkirye22 and @TOAST13TOA5T. I'd like to finish the campaign and see how I feel. As you mentioned @TOAST13TOA5T, being in a vehicle-mounted machine gun in a game is quite common and I've done it other games and not given it much thought. It was definitely the combination of the environment, the first person perspective and the fact that it was a HUMVEE specifically that made me feel the way I did.

 

[xDevin912]

4 hours ago, Blood_Hungry_III said:

You're correct that you don't have to fire a shot if you choose not to. I don't have a strong opinion about the mission one way or the other, but I think it was a bold choice for a COD game.

 

Like others have mentioned, it's been almost 10 years since the game came out, and it's still something that's talked about and remembered. I don't think it was vital to the game, but it's definitely stuck with people more than it would've been if they'd just used a short cutscene to tell the same story.

At least until the cops/troops show up at end. I think that part you do have to start shooting as far as I'm aware to maintain your cover. Granted that is not the part of the level in which caused the controversy (and need for the content warning in an already M rated game)

 

Since I was going for the trophy in which you beat a level without reloading. Eventually Makerov and his squad got pissed at me, called me a coward and started shooting me failing the mission

[Fubuki]

 

Spoiler

I really liked Joesph Allen. He was such a cool character. I wished Makarov didn't shoot him at the end of the mission. He got fucked over big time! Also, No Russian is a great mission for getting that one trophy where you must complete a mission without reloading

 

[Blood_Hungry_III]

13 hours ago, xDevin912 said:

At least until the cops/troops show up at end. I think that part you do have to start shooting as far as I'm aware to maintain your cover. Granted that is not the part of the level in which caused the controversy (and need for the content warning in an already M rated game)

 

Since I was going for the trophy in which you beat a level without reloading. Eventually Makerov and his squad got pissed at me, called me a coward and started shooting me failing the mission

That's right, I forgot about that because the few times I've played the mission, I shot people without really thinking about it.