Hogwarts Legacy Announced

[Zephrese]

1 hour ago, Thrillhelm said:

Strawman's argument. Rowling is against a small percentage of people, not half of all people. 

 

Ironic.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Zephrese

[RachelCharlotte]

On 22.1.2023 at 6:38 AM, Infected Elite said:

I'm not skipping a game because of some authors comments. We need to learn to seperate the art from the person.

 

Look at music, so much is said back in the day that cant be said now (unless your Brotha Lynch haha) but who cares. I'll still listen to it. 

 

Boycotting the game isn't going to hurt sales. I hope it does well and becomes a big series for WBGames. But i also will state i never once gave a damn about JK Rowling. Still don't. 

 

 

Seperating the art from the artist isn't really an option while the artist, sadly, still lives and explicitly considers the money she makes with that stuff as support for her disgusting ideology. By all means, buy and play the game, I might do the same at some point with a used copy (walking through Hogwarts and the castle grounds in OotP and THBP was the most relaxed videogame experience back in the day), but that argument clearly doesn't work here.

[Darling Baphomet]

2 hours ago, Thrillhelm said:

Strawman's argument. Rowling is against a small percentage of people, not half of all people. 

 

... That's exactly their point. That people might care more if her hatred actually affected them.

 

4 minutes ago, RachelCharlotte said:

Seperating the art from the artist isn't really an option while the artist, sadly, still lives and explicitly considers the money she makes with that stuff as support for her disgusting ideology. By all means, buy and play the game, I might do the same at some point with a used copy (walking through Hogwarts and the castle grounds in OotP and THBP was the most relaxed videogame experience back in the day), but that argument clearly doesn't work here.

 

Renting is always an option! If you live in the US I highly recommend Gamefly.

[Thrillhelm]

It's the context. One group is actually hated by Rowling but makes up a small percentage of people overall (its 0.33% in Germany for example), and those want to boycott Hogwarts Legacy and guilt-trip others to do so as well.

 

Now if that small percentage gets replaced with a hatred for men, its a whole different story. Rowling would hate men for what they are, and not for what she thinks they are pretending to be. All the angles like dimorphism would not apply since men would proof that there is dimorphism in the human species. The whole bunch of crazy ideas why she thinks transpeople are bad do not apply to men.

 

What men are good for in that argument are their numbers, if male players would start boycotting the game it would have an actual impact on the sales numbers, for a group so big can actually speak with its wallet. However, since men do not have a lobby, these boycotts would surely be branded as misogyny. And I highly doubt transpeople would want to stand by them.

 

Just keep your examples closer to reality, she hates a minority, not roughly the half of all people.

 

 

[Raidou Kuzunoha XIV]

@Thrillhelm

 

I think you're being a bit pedantic. My point was to try and illustrate roughly why some people feel they can't separate art from artist and can't/won't buy the game as a result - if you feel uncomfortable supporting a game where royalties are going to an individual who hates you for your immutable characteristics, would you still buy it regardless? That was it, that was the entire point, nothing deeper than that - it was a hypothetical meant to pose a question, not "based in reality", because it didn't really need to be. I simply chose men because a lot of people that play games happen to be male, so thought it'd be the widest sweeping net for an analogy/comparison.

 

The fact you can recognise that trans people are a tiny fraction of the population as opposed to men in general should just illustrate what arguably makes this all the worse. Trans people are not exactly universally accepted, they're not half the population like (cis) males are. If you believe men could make an actual dent in sales numbers with a boycott and trans people can't, maybe that alone should give you some inkling of why trans people generally feel like they're silenced or not taken seriously in social issues.

 

(Note that "you" from this point onwards is general "you")

 

If your day to day existence is seeing memes on the internet joking about you being dead/having a high suicide rate, or having "friendly civil discussions" or "questions" about why or why not your desire to transition might actually somehow be wrong or a threat to everyone else, I can't really blame you for wanting nothing to do with a game whose world was imagined by someone exactly like that.

 

I've seen plenty of men throughout the years go ballistic over shit internet hot takes like #menaretrash and what not. Imagine having to see things like that and far worse on a daily basis, and in general, people don't take you seriously. Several people don't even really see you as a fully autonomous human being. Feel free to change things up if you're not male and/or there's other immutable traits you have that you feel more personally attached to. That's my point - if you want to know why people want to boycott this game, just try and put yourself in their shoes and ask yourself if you'd want to support it yourself if YOU were the target of ire instead. If you find you can understand it - even to some small degree - after doing that, maybe then proceed to ask yourself why it would bother you that some people are "guilt tripping" or "preaching" about the game on Twitter or whatever hellhole it is you're perusing on the internet. Remember there's always the option to just scroll past, after all, if it truly isn't any issue to you.

 

Anyway, I think I've exhausted my piece at this point, shit's veered even more off-topic now anyhow.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Raidou Kuzunoha XIV
A rather amusing autocorrect that I still felt I had to fix

[The Alchemist]

On 1/21/2023 at 1:20 AM, squaresoft4ever7 said:

Man, I miss the days of people playing video games as a way to escape real life BS, not add to it.  Reading this topic was like reading a typical argument on a social media platform, let's not stoop to that level folks. 

 

Agreed. Almost 5 pages of off-topic comments and back and forth shit slinging and still no sign of a moderator stepping in to do anything about it. As it stands it's nearly impossible to find any posts in here related to the game itself. 

[DaveB2204]

I absolutely cannot wait for this game. Everyone else excited should ignore the haters trying to cancel Rowling. They say all these things about her but then when asked to quote what she has said, cannot back it up. Advocating for safe spaces for women born as women is not a crime!

[JPtheNeurotic]

33 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

 

Agreed. Almost 5 pages of off-topic comments and back and forth shit slinging and still no sign of a moderator stepping in to do anything about it. As it stands it's nearly impossible to find any posts in here related to the game itself. 

Speaking as someone who helps moderate a forum , any good moderator wouldn’t shut down this discussion . If people really want to they can simply ignore the posts they don’t like . To ignore what is going is speaking from privilege . It be great if I could if could just ignore shit but I can’t . 
 

to simply break down discussion of the game to merely the superficial of what it is and ignore everything else is disingenuous . 
 

Alternatively, if it’s really that much of a problem , creating a different thread or section could help filter it all out because these conversations will never stop . But this place has weird rules for moderation. Never been on a forum that redirects me to old thread  that is years old and outdated because I made a similar thread god knows how long after the fact . 

[DaivRules]

45 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

 

Agreed. Almost 5 pages of off-topic comments and back and forth shit slinging and still no sign of a moderator stepping in to do anything about it. As it stands it's nearly impossible to find any posts in here related to the game itself. 

 

This is a two year old game announcement thread. The conversation on still on the (very) broad topic. If a thread is started with a topic and subject of discussing specific aspects of the game, any unrelated conversation could be reported as off-topic and removed.

 

[Thrillhelm]

@Raidou Kuzunoha XIV

 

Basically you are asking for empathy or sympathy from a majority of people for the course of a minority that wants to boycott a game and guilt-trip those who buy it. The same majority that gets blamed for every negative thing that happens in society, not just to said minority.

 

How about not instrumentalizing men and not guilt-tripping but taking the battle to Rowling herself? How about not putting another franchise on the cancel culture's chopping block? Because its easier to let others fight your fights, I guess.

 

Just by the looks Hogwarts Legacy, aside from the still-existing problems (racist stereotypes and questionable view on slavery, e.g. house elves), looks like a more family friendly game, and despite JK Rowling OBE and her visions you can still have a trans character by picking the witches or wizards dorm as the final step of character creation. Rewind back a few weeks and that would still be the case.

 

Now its five pages later down the thread and I don't see how lecturing players and guilt-tripping them is helping any cause but the one where more and more players get annoyed. Video games, much as TV series and movies, especially in the fantasy genre, should not reflect the world we are currently living in, its like a death kiss to your franchise (Willow, Game of Thrones, Velma, Battlefield V etc.)

[The Alchemist]

33 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

 

This is a two year old game announcement thread. The conversation on still on the (very) broad topic. If a thread is started with a topic and subject of discussing specific aspects of the game, any unrelated conversation could be reported as off-topic and removed.

 

 

Yes it's an old thread and the OP itself mentions the current debate at hand, however, the game is now just weeks from launching, and there is more to discuss about the game now than there was 2 years ago. I figure anyone interested in the game may want to discuss it a bit more now in the lead-up to launch, and since this is really the only thread dedicated to the game (at least until the inevitable 'trophy thoughts' thread pops up), having to wade through page after page of posts relating to stuff that really has nothing to do with the game itself makes it difficult to get any real conversation going. 

 

Perhaps a separate thread could be created where the people interested could discuss the ethics of purchasing the game to their heart's content, and this thread could be used solely for discussion related to the game. Just a thought. 

[kdogg_gamer_]

1 hour ago, DaivRules said:

 

This is a two year old game announcement thread. The conversation on still on the (very) broad topic. If a thread is started with a topic and subject of discussing specific aspects of the game, any unrelated conversation could be reported as off-topic and removed.

 

@DaivRules don’t worry next out of line comment is getting AVADA KEDAVRA!!!! I have Voldys wand don’t test me mudbloods.

[MidnightDragon]

19 minutes ago, kdogg_gamer_ said:

@DaivRules don’t worry next out of line comment is getting AVADA KEDAVRA!!!! I have Voldys wand don’t test me mudbloods.

We’re all muggles here!  

[kdogg_gamer_]

1 minute ago, MidnightDragon said:

We’re all muggles here!  

Lol I can’t wait to use this curse on someone 

[ASMODAIOS344]

1 hour ago, kdogg_gamer_ said:

@DaivRules don’t worry next out of line comment is getting AVADA KEDAVRA!!!! I have Voldys wand don’t test me mudbloods.

 

 

Speaking of the killing curse, i wonder how the game will handle it. I don't expect you will be able to spam it.

[kdogg_gamer_]

4 minutes ago, ASMODAIOS344 said:

 

 

Speaking of the killing curse, i wonder how the game will handle it. I don't expect you will be able to spam it.

Probably not unfortunately 

[RachelCharlotte]

4 hours ago, DaveB2204 said:

I absolutely cannot wait for this game. Everyone else excited should ignore the haters trying to cancel Rowling. They say all these things about her but then when asked to quote what she has said, cannot back it up. Advocating for safe spaces for women born as women is not a crime!

 

Be excited about the game if you want to, but disingeniously misrepresenting the creator's ideology is simply pathetic. If you choose to defend someone who is almost indistinguishable from a nazi, at least don't hide behind lies ?

Edited January 23, 2023 by RachelCharlotte
typo

[Infected Elite]

9 hours ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

... That's exactly their point. That people might care more if her hatred actually affected them.

 

Learn to ignore it. Its not that hard. Its not like she's specifically singled you out. Its as if people will die if they touch the game. 

 

[Thrillhelm]

13 minutes ago, RachelCharlotte said:

 

Be excited about the game if you want to, but disingeniously misrepresenting the creator's ideology is simply pathetic. If you choose to defend someone who is almost indistinguishabel from a nazi, at least don't hide behind lies

Godwin's law, was about time. Joanne K. Rowling, She-Wolf of Hogwarts. 

[starcrunch061]

Like the Energizer Bunny here! Someone mentioned that people might care if [Rowling's] hatred affected them more. That person is 100% correct. As much as it might make me sound like an asshole, I can't be bothered by this.

 

Actually, my position is that Rowling has every right to hate whomever she wants, and that people have the right to shun (or purchase) products related to her for whatever reason they want. I would personally shake my head at anyone who put down money for a game s/he didn't want, simply because they wanted to stick it to some anonymous internet poster, but it's their money.

[Darling Baphomet]

9 hours ago, Thrillhelm said:

The whole bunch of crazy ideas why she thinks transpeople are bad do not apply to men.

 

Except that the entire justification for TERF ideology is that men are violent sexual predators that cannot be trusted around women.

 

9 hours ago, Thrillhelm said:

What men are good for in that argument are their numbers, if male players would start boycotting the game it would have an actual impact on the sales numbers, for a group so big can actually speak with its wallet.

 

Again, that was their fucking point.

 

3 hours ago, Thrillhelm said:

The same majority that gets blamed for every negative thing that happens in society, not just to said minority.

 

Won't anyone think of the poor gamers?!

 

4 hours ago, DaveB2204 said:

I absolutely cannot wait for this game. Everyone else excited should ignore the haters trying to cancel Rowling. They say all these things about her but then when asked to quote what she has said, cannot back it up. Advocating for safe spaces for women born as women is not a crime!

 

Yes, kicking butch lesbians out of women's restrooms because they don't look feminine enough is definitely the behavior of people concerned with women's safety.

 

To say nothing of that time a year or two ago when TERFs platformed a cis lesbian with multiple allegations against her of assaulting women in bathrooms (the exact thing they accuse trans women of) and when the allegations came to light were... completely silent on the matter. But I suppose that's because it's not ideologically convenient for them to acknowledge predator cis women when they could instead be filming trans women in bathroom stalls and then using it as evidence that they're the sex pests.

 

40 minutes ago, RachelCharlotte said:

Be excited about the game if you want to, but disingeniously misrepresenting the creator's ideology is simply pathetic. If you choose to defend someone who is almost indistinguishabel from a nazi, at least don't hide behind lies

 

It's a catch 22; it's easier for them to deny someone's bigotry altogether, but it doesn't matter if you convince them that that person has said bigoted things anyway, because they don't actually care and bigotry does not offend them.

 

29 minutes ago, Infected Elite said:

Learn to ignore it. Its not that hard. Its not like she's specifically singled you out. Its as if people will die if they touch the game.

 

Do you really have to respond to every one of my posts with this? Yes, we get it. You do not care. We got it the first time you posted this, and the second, and the third, and we still get it. Repeating it again is not going to make anybody agree with this sentiment more.

 

Again, it's not hard for you. Because none of what she does actually affects you.

 

[Infected Elite]

7 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

Do you really have to respond to every one of my posts with this? Yes, we get it. You do not care. We got it the first time you posted this, and the second, and the third, and we still get it. Repeating it again is not going to make anybody agree with this sentiment more.

 

Again, it's not hard for you. Because none of what she does actually affects you.

 

 

even if it did affect me, i wouldn't take anything she says to heart. 

 

This is a thread about the game, not JK. Lets keep it that way. Thanks

[kdogg_gamer_]

AVADA KEDAVRA!!!!!!!

 

I warned you all!!!

[Thrillhelm]

Then again Rowling doesn't call herself a TERF since thats the term transpeople use for her. 

 

There are no sympathy points gained for making her look like the devil so that men boycott the game. The same men that get called incel or the root of all evil in the western world. Same as guilt-tripping. Guess what, if there'd be a more serious attempt at explaining why buying the game is a terrible idea, maybe there wouldn't be so much backfire. Especially in a gaming community which focuses rightfully so on the game, not the politics. But that low-effort arguing with feels rather than reason, with guilt-tripping left and right, while also trying to get the game from second-hand just to deny that world's creator any royalties while enjoying said world she created feels wrong, I cannot sympathize with that.

 

See people were looking forward to that game, a lot of people since the Potterverse ticks all the right boxes. It's for both boys and girls, there are strong characters like Hermione Granger, and the whole idea of being a wizard is just fascinating. Fans want to walk around in Hogwarts, go to classes, learn spells and brew magic potions. And with the setting being in the past your character does not get overshadowed by established characters and there will be different stories to tell. That is, until some weeks ago when a vocal minority wants to boycott the game because of the creator's beliefs, nothing of which is present in the game. Everything in games has to be connected with the real world now rather than being escapism, it has to reflect modern day society, going so far that historically correct treatment of women in historical settings is viewed as misogyny (e.g. Red Dead Redemption 1 and 2). And people have enough of that. There's a long list of game trainwrecks where modern day beliefs ruin the experience, Battlefield 2042 or New Tales from the Borderlands being an example. Something that cannot be fixed with the next above-average LGBTQIA+ -themed animated series in CalArts style. And its annoying, a game that should entertaining (or at least tries to, no guaŕantee if Hogwarts Legacy sucks or not) gets instrumentalized and taken hostage because a real discussion with the elephant in the room (Rowling) would take some effort rather than collecting brownie points for virtual signalling. This will only drag on and I am sure those who only want to play the game get pissed sooner or later the longer the debate goes, its a side-note that should have ended with "don't like it, don't buy it" but no, that extra-mile to guilt-trip those interested in the game.

 

No player, no matter what gender, or number of genders, current gender, or lack of gender, should tell another player what games should not be played.

 

 

 

[Breakingthegreen]

3 minutes ago, Thrillhelm said:

Then again Rowling doesn't call herself a TERF since thats the term transpeople use for her. 

 

I wouldn't say that she's against describing herself as such. She seems to like it here: