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Is it just me or was Spelunky 1 a better game?


Silver-I-Chariot

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I don't know guys, been playing Spelunky 2 extensively since release and I just can't really get into it. Yes, I beat the game and explored it a fair bit, but it just doesn't click. I don't like the new aesthetics and design choices. The music from the caves is annoying the HELL out of me. Some enemies, like the moles and the rolling lizards are easily avoidable yet just straight annoying. And worst of all, unlike in Spelunky 1, dying doesn't motivate me to start again and do another run, it just makes me want to stop playing because I dislike the caves so dang much. After all this hype I'm a bit disappointed. Just glad I didn't start it on my main account so won't feel compelled to get a platinum on it.

 

Maybe the reason Spelunky 1 worked so much better for me was its simplicity. No distraction from stupid mounts, turkeys or keys. No caves that are 90% empty. No challenges. No exploding stuff when you rob a shopkeep. No different routes. There is a lot more, like the missing Damsel but that would be nitpicking. 

Anyone else likes Spelunky 1 more than 2?

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I like the game, just not as much as the first one though.

 

Yes, I hate exploding bombs and equiptment too. I'll be happy if they take that feature out. 

 

I miss the old tactics to rob from the shopkeepers with minimal to no damage, it would be great if they bring them back.

Edited by Deceptrox
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I know it wasn't your main gripe, but the damsel was reinforcing the stereotype that women need rescuing, which is almost definitely why it was changed.

 

In Derek Yu's book, he spends a few pages talking about the issues with the damsel. To summarize:

  • In the original Spelunky, he needed a way to give the player hearts, so he went with the "tried-and-true cliché of the damsel-in-distress."
  • He recognized that including a female damsel reinforced the stereotype for Spelunky Classic, and she was a female character that was literally an object that you use, but didn't make any changes by the final release.
  • For HD, he wanted to make some adjustments, giving the options of the hunk or the pug. While some people did commend the progress over the lack of choice in Classic, he still received criticism that the damsel was still problematic on a couple points. Part of the criticism quote, which Derek included in his book:
    • "Setting aside the fact that if a female character is easily interchangeable with a dog then it's probably a good indication that something is wrong, merely providing an optional gender-swap is not a quick and easy fix, especially where stock character style damsels are concerned. The two may appear the same, but they don't mean the same thing in our culture. This [damsel] is still a problem while this [dude] is not. Again because one reinforces pre-existing stereotypes about women, while the other does not reinforce any pre-existing stereotypes about men."
  • This book came out long before Spelunky 2 was even announced, but Derek seemed to really take this criticism to heart. I'd be shocked if this exchange didn't lead to changing damsels to pets.
14 hours ago, Deceptrox said:

I miss the old tactics to rob from the shopkeepers with minimal to no damage, it would be great if they bring them back.

 

You can rob from them with no damage. If you run right into their little corner, you can throw a rope and it'll stun them. You can pick them up and toss them away, then pick up their shotgun and start blasting. This works even if there are explodables, and you can either move the explodables to the corner from behind where you'll be shooting, or you can even dash out as you throw the shopkeeper to pick up bombs and the like, because you've got enough time to run back and grab the shotgun.

Edited by DangerSpice
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8 hours ago, DangerSpice said:

I know it wasn't your main gripe, but the damsel was reinforcing the stereotype that women need rescuing, which is almost definitely why it was changed.

 

Some people will always find new ways to get offended, I guess. There was always a choice to pick the Hunk or the Pug for people who don't like the Damsel. That being said, if I have to sacrifice or save a human character, even if it's a cartoonish one, for me it has a much bigger impact than doing that with a hamster. With the Damsel I almost felt guilty when sacrificing, not being able to rescue or even accidentally shooting when robbing a shopkeeper. Sacrificing her was a nice, dark humorous touch. But a hamster is like, yeah, whatever, it's just a hamster, who cares. Why would a dark god be pleased if you gave them a hamster anyway?

 

Another thing about the pets is that there is one in every level now. They are so common that I sometimes just ignore them and don't bother to pick them up. In Spelunky HD Damsels were much harder to find and sometimes they were forced into slavery by the shopkeeper. So whenever you managed to find a Damsel, it felt so much more important to grab her and make a decision to sacrifice or rescue. Again, just a minor thing but I definitely don't agree with Derek's "If a female character is easily interchangeable with a dog then it's probably a good indication that something is wrong". Because to me they are not interchangeable. 

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On 9/30/2020 at 6:02 PM, Silver-I-Chariot said:

Another thing about the pets is that there is one in every level now. They are so common that I sometimes just ignore them and don't bother to pick them up. In Spelunky HD Damsels were much harder to find and sometimes they were forced into slavery by the shopkeeper. So whenever you managed to find a Damsel, it felt so much more important to grab her and make a decision to sacrifice or rescue.

 

There was always one in every level in HD. And sometimes they're "forced into slavery by the shopkeeper" in S2, too. Neither of those have changed at all. In fact, sometimes the pets are even harder to find now because they're hidden in the back layer somewhere that requires a secret entrance to get to.

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8 hours ago, DangerSpice said:

 

There was always one in every level in HD. And sometimes they're "forced into slavery by the shopkeeper" in S2, too. Neither of those have changed at all. In fact, sometimes the pets are even harder to find now because they're hidden in the back layer somewhere that requires a secret entrance to get to.

 

You know, I just replayed HD to try it out and still can't agree. The Damsel is often very inaccessible or well hidden that I can't get a hold of her. I had entire runs where I barely grabbed any at all. In S2 it feels like I have a pet right on my way in every level. Besides, you can often just opt to cook 2 turkeys to get lifes. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I loved Spelunky 1. I love Spelunky 2 so far. I think it's valid to like one over the other, but I don't think that means one is the better game.

 

Check out some of Derek Yu's interviews on how they designed the game if you're interested - they took a lot of care to integrate feedback from various parts of the community while still trying to make the game they wanted to make. I think it's just a different game, and hearing what the team was going for definitely changed how I view Spelunky 2.

 

Either way, I never expected we'd get Spelunky 2 in the first place.

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  • 3 weeks later...

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