[SOLVED] Your voice can be recorded in Parties for moderation purposes

[LoveInHell]

They gave everyone a heart attack for no reason.

[R4M_Noskillzpro]

15 hours ago, bosstristan said:

The's no such thing as overreacting. I'm worried about that new privacy update and I'd like clarifications on the matter. You should not take everything fro granted and assert they won't ban for such things. (let me remind you they already banned users containing some words in their ID, one being the user's name)

Mate you could record parties way before this update. This stuff has been in their Terms of Service since 2013. That’s why some people are calling it an over reaction since the ability to record others has been the case for a long time. If you are worried about your mates fucking you over for swearing, then I recommend finding new mates who you can trust and not just play pranks on you and get you banned. 

[BlackTorito]

This thing right here is the proof we needed that the world is losing reading comprehension skills.

[Shadiochao]

25 minutes ago, Nighcisama said:

I come from an era when getting bullied actually meant getting physically beat up for looking different or talking weird, or simply because you were at the wrong place at the wrong time or had a funny name, at the absolute minimum a bully victim was forced to spend a lot of time near his or her tormentors in school and take a ton of verbal abuse, as no person in charge was really giving a damn about these things, no option to just escape the situation at will, the options were to take it or to fight back. Having witnessed what actual bullying can do to some people, I gotta say you describing potentially hearing a few mean words online from complete strangers you will never see or hear again as "being bullied to death" is absolutely laughable to me and tells me that it is in fact your opinion on the matter that is not worth taking seriously due to an obvious and severe lack of knowledge about how bad real bullying can really be for someone, because people who have ever witnessed actual bullying do not compare it to something like this.

 

Bullying can take different forms. It's not up for you to decide what is or isn't based on how severe you think it needs to be. It's also not for you to say how much other people should be able to handle. Some people have committed suicide based on what people have said to them online, so I would say that being bullied to death is an accurate way of describing it.

 

[xDerErnst]

8 minutes ago, Shadiochao said:

 

Bullying can take different forms. It's not up for you to decide what is or isn't based on how severe you think it needs to be. It's also not for you to say how much other people should be able to handle. Some people have committed suicide based on what people have said to them online, so I would say that being bullied to death is an accurate way of describing it.

 

How could you kill yourself over something this irrelevant? My only guess would be mental illness or other factors irl playing into this. No normal person would kill themselves over voice chat.

[Shadiochao]

Just now, xDerErnst said:

How could you kill yourself over something this irrelevant? My only guess would be mental illness or other factors irl playing into this. No normal person would kill themselves over voice chat.

 

And yet people have. Whether or not you consider them normal or to have a mental illness doesn't mean their life is worth any less.

[xDerErnst]

Just now, Shadiochao said:

 

And yet people have. Whether or not you consider them normal or to have a mental illness doesn't mean their life is worth any less.

I never said that. If these people decide to kill themselves over an internet argument they probably shouldn't play in the first place and instead work on their mental health. I know I may sound insensitive but getting this worked up over an asshole on the internet isn't normal. 

[Kesme63]

7 minutes ago, xDerErnst said:

I never said that. If these people decide to kill themselves over an internet argument they probably shouldn't play in the first place and instead work on their mental health. I know I may sound insensitive but getting this worked up over an asshole on the internet isn't normal. 

Depressed people may want to enjoy hobbies too. I think people who insult others are the ones who shouldn't be there in the first place.

[Dreakon13]

15 hours ago, Nighcisama said:

Great argument. Only people who have something suspicious to hide would be bothered with random people being able to listen to everything they talk about with others, that flawed way of thinking was never used to justify systematically spying on people at all. Is it too much to ask to at least know all the details of the dick they want us to swallow? Not all of us can casually and completely deactivate our gag reflex like some of you, nor are we willing to.

 

Ngl, this turned into you thinking about dicks pretty quick.

 

 

24 minutes ago, xDerErnst said:

How could you kill yourself over something this irrelevant? My only guess would be mental illness or other factors irl playing into this. No normal person would kill themselves over voice chat.

 

I dunno if people "kill themselves because someone said something mean online".  It's usually more an extension of real life, where people (kids) feel trapped being abused at school, maybe at home, and online.  Online maybe being their one last bastion of reasonable interaction, and maybe the last straw when even that goes south.

 

That being said... why people have to be nasty to eachother online period, no less to strangers who may have any number of other things going on in their lives, is beyond me.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Dreakon13

[Infernopommes]

3 minutes ago, Kesme63 said:

Depressed people may want to enjoy hobbies too.

You can play games without ever being in a party.

You can play games while being in a party, without there being mean people.

You make it sound as if every party was full of bullies.

If you want to play and join a party for that, just hop around until you find a nice one, it's not that hard.

Not wanting to be bullied is one thing, complaining at all costs without wanting to see easy solutions another.

 

Quote

I think people who insult others are the ones who shouldn't be there in the first place.

We've been over this.

[Shadiochao]

10 minutes ago, xDerErnst said:

I never said that. If these people decide to kill themselves over an internet argument they probably shouldn't play in the first place and instead work on their mental health. I know I may sound insensitive but getting this worked up over an asshole on the internet isn't normal. 

 

This is riduculous. Imagine saying to someone who killed themselves "you should've just worked on your mental health".

 

Why say that when we can fix the problem by getting rid of the people doing the bullying? Why is it the job of the emotionally fragile person who's being attacked to fix everything while under distress?

[VigilantCrow]

1 hour ago, Nighcisama said:

I come from an era when getting bullied actually meant getting physically beat up for looking different or talking weird, or simply because you were at the wrong place at the wrong time...

Exactly. The 80s were a brutal time for kids to grow up and I've heard that the 70s were even worse for the outcasts. I can think of at least 10 cases in my youth, where kids in my area were hospitalized with permanent bodily harm, after being bullied.

 

The problem with online bullying is that schools haven't updated their curriculums, to showcase the steps needed to protect their privacy and sensitive information. I don't blame the kids for not being able to cope, I blame the educators for neglecting this new digital reality. Never blame the kids for not being taught the skills needed. 

 

[Crispy_Oglop]

I honestly don't care that this is happening and the outrage in this thread is a bit misguided. If I get banned from voice chat because a moderator picked it up and took action in accordance with the PSN rules, the chances are that I said something pretty bad for that to happen. For me it's the whole 'Talk shit, get hit' approach. If you are being abusive to someone, you probably have no right to have the privilege of using the voice chat feature.

 

I actually welcome this. If this is the price to pay to regulate and remove behaviour like pedophilia, racism, verbal abuse and any other kind of awful stuff that people can communicate to each other in these kind of formats, then I don't care if someone can randomly listen in on my conversations to check whether i'm being good or not. I'd rather that than the alternative. Maybe it will be a kick up the arse for folks to actually own how they communicate and be functional human beings in a group environment like voice chat.

 

And honestly, complaining about this kind of thing is a bit pointless, considering your social media accounts and pretty much everything you do online is recorded in some way and has been for years all the way down to your browsing habits. Total privacy online doesn't exist, never has, never will.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Crispy_Oglop

[Kesme63]

4 minutes ago, Infernopommes said:

You can play games without ever being in a party.

You can play games while being in a party, without there being mean people.

You make it sound as if every party was full of bullies.

If you want to play and join a party for that, just hop around until you find a nice one, it's not that hard.

Not wanting to be bullied is one thing, complaining at all costs without wanting to see easy solutions another.

 

We've been over this.

I feel like you're missing my point. Of course a person should leave the party if they don't like it there but why should we put the responsibilty on the people who just want to enjoy the game instead of people who ruin it for others? User @Shadiochao expressed my thoughts exactly:

4 minutes ago, Shadiochao said:

Why say that when we can fix the problem by getting rid of the people doing the bullying? Why is it the job of the emotionally fragile person who's being attacked to fix everything while under distress?

 

[Dreakon13]

9 minutes ago, VigilantCrow said:

Exactly. The 80s were a brutal time for kids to grow up and I've heard that the 70s were even worse for the outcasts. I can think of at least 10 cases in my youth, where kids in my area were hospitalized with permanent bodily harm, after being bullied.

 

Fwiw, I think it was a little bit different back then.  Where physical harm is obviously very bad, the abuse these days is much more mental.  Where back in the day you kinda knew where you stood, you took your lumps and moved on... nowadays it's just a constant barrage of attacks that basically follow you everywhere you go... because the internet follows you everywhere.  Social media is an escape for these kids, and in a split second whatever reputation you have (good or bad) can change if someone (or someones) decide to crusade against you.  They attack you in school, they attack you online.  There's no escaping it.  If it gets bad enough, I can understand these kids still trying to figure life out, feeling like they have nowhere to turn.

 

Just look at how badly a little bit of misinformation can send a gaming community into a tailspin.  Now just imagine this happens in a small school community where the thing literally everyone is turning on is you, and they know everything about you.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Dreakon13

[Lordidude]

41 minutes ago, Shadiochao said:

 

Bullying can take different forms. It's not up for you to decide what is or isn't based on how severe you think it needs to be. It's also not for you to say how much other people should be able to handle. Some people have committed suicide based on what people have said to them online, so I would say that being bullied to death is an accurate way of describing it.

 

 

Random strangers calling you names is different than targeted online harrassment.

Don't put these two on the same level please, you quickly lose credibility.

 

Generally speaking online bullying is accompanied by real life bullying as well.

If someone is harrassed on facebook or insta or whatever it's usually other kids from the school they know.

Even if they ignore it, even if they can mute and block them - the bullying will be translated into analog bullying (or it probably started there already).

 

That's not to say we should not take online bullying seriously. 

When we are talking about chatting online with strangers we had mute and block options two decades ago with IRC chatrooms and even when playing Socom on the freaking PS2.

 

 

[Infernopommes]

6 minutes ago, Kesme63 said:

I feel like you're missing my point.

 

And I think you are missing my counterpoint.

 

Quote

Of course a person should leave the party if they don't like it there but why should we put the responsibilty on the people who just want to enjoy the game instead of people who ruin it for others?

Because that's how the world works.

Again, I should be able to leave my car with open doors out somewhere without it being stolen. If it gets stolen, I can't just tell the insurance "Well give me the money, because why should I be at fault here, we should have just taught the thieves not to steal." It is my job to secure my car enough to prevent theft.

 

If you're in a party who are mean to you, and you want to be in a party, and the others get banned, then you are alone in the party. Which is basically the same as just leave it to look for a new party with nice people. Granted, if you ban those people, all parties will be inevitable nicer, but again, your point makes no sense, because you are basing your argument on the thought that a] every party has mean people in it and/or b] that you absolutely have to be in a party to enjoy a game, otherwise you would not be able to enjoy a hobby.

How do you even end up in a party with strangers? The only way I know of would be to join a random party, so why would you even do that? I was only in parties with friends after receiving invitations or starting them, no need to be in a party with strangers to enjoy my hobby.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Infernopommes

[xDerErnst]

3 minutes ago, Shadiochao said:

 

This is riduculous. Imagine saying to someone who killed themselves "you should've just worked on your mental health".

 

Why say that when we can fix the problem by getting rid of the people doing the bullying? Why is it the job of the emotionally fragile person who's being attacked to fix everything while under distress?

Because some things will never change. Online assholes is one of them. Unless you start heavily censoring everything online (which no-one should want) these people will always be there. 

Let me tell you something from my personal experience, when I was in school the bullying got so bad that I quit and was unable to return or work for almost 4 years yet I never once thought about killing myself because there's another asshole online. Like other people said there are easy workarounds like mute buttons or private parties. There is no reason to kill yourself just because someone was mean to you online. If you think that way you should stop playing and go to therapy.

And please don't get this wrong. I'm not saying their lives are worth less. I just think they should seek help.

[Dreakon13]

5 minutes ago, Lordidude said:

 

Random strangers calling you names is different than targeted online harrassment.

Don't put these two on the same level please, you quickly lose credibility.

 

Generally speaking online bullying is accompanied by real life bullying as well.

If someone is harrassed on facebook or insta or whatever it's usually other kids from the school they know.

Even if they ignore it, even if they can mute and block them - the bullying will be translated into analog bullying (or it probably started there already).

 

That's not to say we should not take online bullying seriously. 

When we are talking about chatting online with strangers we had mute and block options two decades ago with IRC chatrooms and even when playing Socom on the freaking PS2.

 

 

 

You're right that online bullying and real life bullying tend to go together... but you don't know what the person on the other end is dealing with, even in a one off case of "calling strangers names".  We should try to be better overall.

 

I don't know if it's Sony's place to facilitate that, but I do know it's their right to moderate what happens on their own service.  Buy a cheap personal server and run it off your own resources (power, internet, etc) if you demand total freedom.  No one is stopping you.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Dreakon13

[VigilantCrow]

9 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

 

Fwiw, I think it was a little bit different back then.  Where physical harm is obviously very bad, the abuse these days is much more mental.  Where back in the day you kinda knew where you stood, you took your lumps and moved on... nowadays it's just a constant barrage of attacks that basically follow you everywhere you go... because the internet follows you everywhere.  Social media is an escape for these kids, and in a split second whatever reputation you have (good or bad) can change if someone (or someones) decide to crusade against you.  They attack you in school, they attack you online.  There's no escaping it.  If it gets bad enough, I can understand these kids still trying to figure life out, feeling like they have nowhere to turn.

 

Just look at how badly a little bit of misinformation can send a gaming community into a tailspin.  Now just imagine this happens in a small school community where the thing literally everyone is turning on is you, and they know everything about you.

It's definitely a bit different, which is why I put a bit of emphasis on schools teaching young people, about online privacy and safety. 

In my province, there's been 8 recorded youth deaths in the last 5 years, directly attributed due to online bullying. The common thread between all of them, is the circulation of compromising pictures that the youth themselves took. Point being that young people need to learn how to protect themselves online and understand the risks of posting anything personal.

To bring everything full circle, youth in party chats aren't equipped to handle the bantering that goes on in competitive games. They need to be taught the social skills required for the modern era. I'm not sure they should even be allowed on party chats, until they've reached an age where they can understand what the internet really is.

Edited October 15, 2020 by VigilantCrow

[Kesme63]

3 minutes ago, Infernopommes said:

If you're in a party who are mean to you, and you want to be in a party, and the others get banned, then you are alone in the party. Which is basically the same as just leave it to look for a new party with nice people. Granted, if you ban those people, all parties will be inevitable nicer, but again, your point makes no sense, because you are basing your argument on the thought that a) every party has mean people in it and/or that you absolutely have to be in a party to enjoy a game, otherwise you would not be able to enjoy a hobby.

I never said I think that every party has mean people in it or that you have to be in a party to enjoy the game. I'm basing my argument that people who act awfully shouldn't be allowed in chats. I don't think that people who bully or insult getting banned is that crazy.

 

7 minutes ago, Infernopommes said:

It is my job to secure my car enough to prevent theft.

Locked houses and cars get broken into also. What do you do then if you've done all in your power to prevent theft and it still happened? It is also Sony's job to secure their service which includes looking onto people who break their terms of service which I am sure includes bullying and insulting other players and if people recording voice chats and reporting other users helps them, I don't see where's the harm.

[Dreakon13]

7 minutes ago, VigilantCrow said:

It's definitely a bit different, which is why I put a bit of emphasis on schools teaching young people, about online privacy and safety. 

In my province, there's been 8 recorded youth deaths in the last 5 years, directly attributed due to bullying. The common thread between all of them, is the circulation of compromising pictures that the youth themselves took. Point being that young people need to learn how to protect themselves online and understand the risks of posting anything personal.

 

Yeah, I'm not even sure schools explaining the potential consequences for something like this, will really make a difference.  They're kids, they're invincible until they aren't anymore.  Not to say we shouldn't teach them, but between the schools and parents doing their best, I still think it'll happen.

 

It's why kids getting smartphones and access to the world younger and younger was always such a bad idea.  Considering we probably can't turn back the clock on that, I'm not sure what the answer is.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Dreakon13

[Lordidude]

4 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

 

You're right that online bullying and real life bullying tend to go together... but you don't know what the person on the other end is dealing with, even in a one off case of "calling strangers names".  We should try to be better overall.

 

I don't know if it's Sony's place to facilitate that, but I do know it's their right to moderate what happens on their own service.  Buy a cheap personal server and run it off your own resources (power, internet, etc) if you demand total freedom.  No one is stopping you.

 

You are right - we do not know what people are going through. And sometimes people take it badly despite nothing of bad intention being said. I fully agree with you - we should just all chill out and not be buttholes to each other. 

 

Sony can facilitate that however they want. It's their platform and people can chose to not use it. Just like people can chose not to mute.

 

People are annoying/harrassing you? -> Mute them

Not happy with Sony's recording policy? -> Buy the competition or play offline

But I do not agree with people being outraged and still buying the console anyway.

[cHuChO2484]

"The price to regulate and remove some nasty behaviour", except you will never eliminate that behaviour from the internet or the world itself, and my concern is how people will abuse this feature because lets face it they will do...

[Dreakon13]

4 minutes ago, Lordidude said:

People are annoying/harrassing you? -> Mute them

Not happy with Sony's recording policy? -> Buy the competition or play offline

But I do not agree with people being outraged and still buying the console anyway.

 

Agreed.  Though for the cases where it goes a bit further than annoying/harrassing... threats of violence, threats of hacking, etc... stuff that could be acted on even past muting or blocking, can and probably should be reported.