Trophy list downfall

[Sebulba2000]

So, I've been watching this unfold since DDD. The KH games' trophy lists kept becoming easier and easier and I understand removing the unfair stuff, like beating the game 6 times (I'm looking at you, Re: CoM on PS3), but I can't stand it, when most of the game's optional tasks (the so called Feats here) aren't required for the platinum trophy. I remember a lot of stuff wasn't needed in DDD, either, like the infamous max affinity levels trophy and the game itself had the easiest plat in the KH history. Same goes to KH3, which didn't even have a difficulty related trophy, or anything.

In other words, I'm disappointed as a KH fan, that the plats are getting easier and easier and don't require you to master the game.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Sebulba2000

[Alternatewarning]

Personally, I like the change.  I really hate difficulty trophies.  Yes, it does make the game 'easier' to platinum but it also means I don't have the play the game 6 times.

[NOWITSREYNTIME17]

1 minute ago, Alternatewarning said:

Personally, I like the change.  I really hate difficulty trophies.  Yes, it does make the game 'easier' to platinum but it also means I don't have the play the game 6 times.

yeah, agreed. Difficulty and multiple playthroughs suck ass. Like, just let me do any hard trophies on a single playthrough and on a normal one. I am fine with the trophy change

[DiamondAN-94]

I fully agree with you. I love the challenge that is birth by sleep and DDD. Hopefully a trophy for completing the game on level 1 is a thing in the future lol

Edited December 8, 2020 by DiamondAN-94

[Vermilion_Joker]

I wish some of the smaller things would have separate trophies rather than the overall 100% Journal we usually get, but I'm rather content with most of the more recent trophy lists. The only ones I don't like are the grindy ones (like Re:CoM's level to 99 one and 3D's affinity levels/finishing the boards) because it's less about being good and just being stuck in the mundane grind, a grind that serves no real benefit when you don't even NEED them. 99 is over the top for a level cap in a game like Re:CoM, and there's so many repeat abilities in the Dream Eaters that it's just a real waste of resources going for it all.

 

Birth by Sleep is a whole other can of worms, though... True hell.

[RedRodriguez87]

Maybe if this was another series I'd agree fully, but when it comes to KH games, I'll take the simpler lists. The reason for that is that the two games, the two trophy lists that ask the most of you, Re: CoM and BBS, are the two that IMO don't really deserve it. Both have their fair share of noted problems, on of which gameplay that seems like you have to cheese out rather than actually be good at in order to even beat it. Then it takes it a step further by demanding that your Journal/character be maxed out, adding what is ALWAYS a long dull grind into the mix.

 

I've never been into the Mastering of a game, but rather exploring everything the game has to offer. I do see where you are coming from, and its the same problem I have with all these 1-hour platinums that don't even require you to beat the game, but as @Alternatewarning and @NOWITSREYNTIME17 say, when the alternative is more than two playthroughs on annoying difficulties, I say "eff it, give me another uncommon platinum. I can live with that kind of game rather than one that makes me sick to death of it after I'm done".

[Alternatewarning]

Funnily enough @RedRodriguez87, I'm perfectly fine with maxing out the characters/journal, etc.  I don't mind having to do everything, I just want to do everything on my own ability.  I have the same issue with Trails of Cold Steel.  I want to beat the game, I don't want to have to beat the game on the hardest difficulty.

 

@DiamondAN-94 Please don't get Square such ideas, that sounds awful

[RedDevil757]

It's because trophy hunters don't like to work for their plats. If a game is hard or requires some actual time and effort, many will avoid it. I expect to see games award a platinum just for participating in the game soon

[mcnichoj]

8 minutes ago, RedDevil757 said:

It's because trophy hunters don't like to work for their plats. If a game is hard or requires some actual time and effort, many will avoid it. I expect to see games award a platinum just for participating in the game soon

Devs and the vast majority of PS users don't care about trophies. Plenty of big AAA games had bad plats or shitty DLC trophies but they still sold well. Trophy hunters are the minority.

[Sebulba2000]

1 hour ago, Alternatewarning said:

Personally, I like the change.  I really hate difficulty trophies.  Yes, it does make the game 'easier' to platinum but it also means I don't have the play the game 6 times.

Difficulty trophies stacked in 2.5, 1.5+2.5 and 0.2

 

1 hour ago, Vermilion_Joker said:

Birth by Sleep is a whole other can of worms, though... True hell.

Really? I actually found BBS pretty easy and not grindy to platinum, and I did everything on Critical. The worst thing was doing the Mysterious Figure as Terra, that was just cheap. Yeah, you can say, you have to 100% the Reports 3 times, but there are much less worlds here than in KH2 for example and it feels like 100%ing the KH2's Jiminy's Journal. At least for me lol

 

1 hour ago, DiamondAN-94 said:

I fully agree with you. I love the challenge that is birth by sleep and DDD. Hopefully a trophy for completing the game on level 1 is a thing in the future lol

Haha yeah, why not put it as "DLC" pack though? They did it with Uncharted collection on PS4.

 

28 minutes ago, RedDevil757 said:

It's because trophy hunters don't like to work for their plats. If a game is hard or requires some actual time and effort, many will avoid it. I expect to see games award a platinum just for participating in the game soon

 

Wellp, I prefer to master the game and get the accomplishment feeling. I love doing these ultra rare plats like LBPs, GTAs or Terraria

Edited December 8, 2020 by Sebulba2000

[Alternatewarning]

@Sebulba2000 Yes, they stack but, again, I hate difficulty trophies.  I don't want to have to do all of the bonus bosses on the hardest mode possible since, well, it's hard.

[soliunasm]

I am absolutely fine with them making the lists easier but not too easy. Have you seen trophy lists from long running rhythm games like the Miku games or Taiko no Tatsujin? Only the cream of the crop can even touch some of those. I've been playing Taiko for years and being able to do Oni even on the easy songs is pretty difficult not only because of constantly alternating notes (Example being something like BRB RBBR BRB RBR) or constant mashing of triplets to octuplets or even higher while alternating (Example being something like BRBBRRBRRBBRRB). It took me years to learn how to reliably do triples and higher without my brain turning off mid-song.

 

The fact that the trophy list of the PS4 version of Taiko no Tatsujin requires 10,000 notes on Oni of songs 7* or above without missing a single hit is completely ludicrous as that means like fifteen or so perfect songs in a row, and 7* ones are generally hard to learn and filled with alternating triples or constant alternating notes that fly by so fast making it tough to even keep up with the beat. Sometimes the beatmaps are complete nonsense that don't even fit the song at times like Saitama 2000. Another crazy one in Taiko is reaching level 50 because as soon as you pass the low 40s it will start going from 7* Hard beatmaps (Which vary from being Oni-tier to being challenging but fair) to 5-8* Oni and songs like Cirno's Perfect Math Class or Night of Knights on Hard at the drop of a hat where your opponent Full Combos the thing 90% of the time. That's why people who have those trophies have my respect, but it feels like beating your head against a wall if you try.

 

50 full chains on Proud is not exactly something to scoff at as some of the beatmap timings in MoM are weird to say the least, but it's at least reasonable for the average person to complete even if it takes some dedication to achieve it. I can't imagine turning on Performer mode since even some of the early Proud beatmaps are sometimes difficult to follow. 50 full chains on Proud is reasonable enough, heck, 100 would still be reasonable, but you have to draw a line somewhere that regular people who learned how to better themselves and not savants can get the platinum.

Edited December 8, 2020 by soliunasm

[sepheroithisgod]

I mean this is completely different from other KH games, I wouldn't expect the trophy difficulty to be consistent with other titles. That said, I never found the KH titles hard, while they asked you to do everything, you could always play on the easiest playthrough and speed through on the hardest difficulty if required (although I always just did it on the hardest in one go).

 

I may be mistaken, but I thought the difficulty trophies not stacking wasn't intentional in that first PS3 collection.

[LunchCannon54]

15 hours ago, soliunasm said:

I am absolutely fine with them making the lists easier but not too easy. Have you seen trophy lists from long running rhythm games like the Miku games or Taiko no Tatsujin? Only the cream of the crop can even touch some of those. I've been playing Taiko for years and being able to do Oni even on the easy songs is pretty difficult not only because of constantly alternating notes (Example being something like BRB RBBR BRB RBR) or constant mashing of triplets to octuplets or even higher while alternating (Example being something like BRBBRRBRRBBRRB). It took me years to learn how to reliably do triples and higher without my brain turning off mid-song.

 

The fact that the trophy list of the PS4 version of Taiko no Tatsujin requires 10,000 notes on Oni of songs 7* or above without missing a single hit is completely ludicrous as that means like fifteen or so perfect songs in a row, and 7* ones are generally hard to learn and filled with alternating triples or constant alternating notes that fly by so fast making it tough to even keep up with the beat. Sometimes the beatmaps are complete nonsense that don't even fit the song at times like Saitama 2000. Another crazy one in Taiko is reaching level 50 because as soon as you pass the low 40s it will start going from 7* Hard beatmaps (Which vary from being Oni-tier to being challenging but fair) to 5-8* Oni and songs like Cirno's Perfect Math Class or Night of Knights on Hard at the drop of a hat where your opponent Full Combos the thing 90% of the time. That's why people who have those trophies have my respect, but it feels like beating your head against a wall if you try.

 

50 full chains on Proud is not exactly something to scoff at as some of the beatmap timings in MoM are weird to say the least, but it's at least reasonable for the average person to complete even if it takes some dedication to achieve it. I can't imagine turning on Performer mode since even some of the early Proud beatmaps are sometimes difficult to follow. 50 full chains on Proud is reasonable enough, heck, 100 would still be reasonable, but you have to draw a line somewhere that regular people who learned how to better themselves and not savants can get the platinum.

You can make the same comparison with Crash 4 and the N Sane Trilogy. The N Sane Trilogy is reasonably tough but I reckon fairly doable, but Crash 4 is utterly masochistic involving getting every Platinum Relic and smashing every box in every level without dying (keeping in mind levels are long with alternating gameplay styles and sadistically hidden boxes).

[Vermilion_Joker]

On 12/7/2020 at 10:26 PM, Sebulba2000 said:

Really? I actually found BBS pretty easy and not grindy to platinum, and I did everything on Critical. The worst thing was doing the Mysterious Figure as Terra, that was just cheap. Yeah, you can say, you have to 100% the Reports 3 times, but there are much less worlds here than in KH2 for example and it feels like 100%ing the KH2's Jiminy's Journal. At least for me lol

As someone who played the original BBS and FM on PSP, Birth by Sleep was not only a mundane grind to properly platinum, it just wasn't that great of a game. The Mysterious Figure was the least of my worries because I'm so used to his lack of following the rules and giga-super armor, but the overall tactic Thunder Surge spam and just hoping RNG doesn't decide to obliterate you with his constant mixups was utterly terrible.

 

The real icing on the cake was, as you said, doing the same things three different times for the sake of 100%. Sure there's less worlds, but there's still the fact you have to do all of the minute tasks three different times just so you can get a measly bronze. You have to grind for every possible command for every character, do every Mirage Arena match thrice and more for the 9,999 medal accomplishment, and every mini-game? Three times again? Just wasn't very fun compared to something like II Final Mix or even Dream Drop Distance because of the shared journal, despite my qualms with it.

[TheSleepyBeauty]

I probably won't ever go back and Platinum the remastered games on the PS4 (already did for KH2 bc its my favorite out of the series) but Platinum both KH 1 and KHCoM on the PS3 was such a good feeling and a sense of accomplishment. And what did it was the unstacked difficulty trophies. I loved it! Replaying the games 3 times I actually missed things that I didn't notice from my first playthrough and these are games I've played as a kid! It's the pure dedication. Period. I've never felt any other game where I actually enjoyed and self-worth in getting those two Platinums. KH3 platinum was a joke to me. It felt like a 2/10 feeling than with PS3 KH 1 & KHCoM 9/10. It was worth it. You have to be be a huge fan of the series if you have those two PS3 platinums. You have to. I can't see anyone just going for the Platinum and not liking the games. It's not possible. It's just not. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by TheSleepyBeauty

[Andrea_Soldier93]

On 8/12/2020 at 3:34 AM, Sebulba2000 said:

 Same goes to KH3, which didn't even have a difficulty related trophy, or anything.

 

Even on proud it's not difficult at all ?

[AquaNSky]

I am not sure the latest one is easier. The game wants you to be perfect about a third of its content on the hardest difficulty. Not sure they could add much in unique trophies for M.o.M. Like they already have the 'Fly for a minute in one stage'. Maybe encourage using the other two modes in 'Track selection'. Plus with all the star rewards you couldn't play exclusively on Proud through the World Tour (most of it, not all of it).

I wouldn't mind if they made them less grind-based. '100'000 enemies defeated'. I'm halfway done with 'Proud' mode (having done all songs on 'Beginner' and 'Standard' already) and haven't reached '50'000 enemies defeated' yet. Plus one team is maxed out and the three others are over Level 50.

 

Like, I enjoyed KH1 with doing it in two playthroughs, and did the same for KHII. KHDDD is fun except for the 'Dropping 100 times'. I was in the low 70's when I was done everything else. 

I am glad there are no more 'No Continues' trophy, 

 

Like that's why I have avoided the B.B.S. Platinum, 6 playthroughs if you want to be fair to yourself. 3 for Critical, 3 for everything else. Unless you are that good, and I struggled with Lingering Will on Beginner. ^u^' 

[Fran_Bankai]

Did you try to beat ReMind DLC trophies??? I mean, Risk-taker was a real challenge...

[Deadly_Ha_Ha]

I agree, at least with regards to this game. The plat is easier than it should be and personally I wish the series had lower trophy %'s. Kingdom Hearts III and this game have over 20% and this game will probably end up 30-35% or maybe higher for how extremely simple it is to plat. I don't think we should return to Re CoM on ps3 but it would have been nice to have been asked to challenge myself more for the plat on this one. 

 

The ReMind dlc for KH3 is more than most people would care to sign up for but I wouldn't be opposed to that level of effort for any kingdom hearts game. The challenge was fair unlike Unknown in BBS and they actually made use of the combat to seriously challenge the player, and the resulting trophy 100% felt way better than a game like Melody which you barely have to be good at to plat

[Sebulba2000]

On 10.12.2020 at 2:52 PM, Andrea_Soldier93 said:

Even on proud it's not difficult at all 

Yep, I played it on Proud and can confirm. But then, we got the hardest Critical in the series.
 

 

16 hours ago, Deadly_Ha_Ha said:

I agree, at least with regards to this game. The plat is easier than it should be and personally I wish the series had lower trophy %'s. Kingdom Hearts III and this game have over 20% and this game will probably end up 30-35% or maybe higher for how extremely simple it is to plat. I don't think we should return to Re CoM on ps3 but it would have been nice to have been asked to challenge myself more for the plat on this one. 

 

The ReMind dlc for KH3 is more than most people would care to sign up for but I wouldn't be opposed to that level of effort for any kingdom hearts game. The challenge was fair unlike Unknown in BBS and they actually made use of the combat to seriously challenge the player, and the resulting trophy 100% felt way better than a game like Melody which you barely have to be good at to plat

Agreed, I'd say, the Pro Codes trophy really required a lot of time (basically doing another playthrough) and you literally had to master the fights. Felt great.
 

 

17 hours ago, AquaNSky said:

I am not sure the latest one is easier. The game wants you to be perfect about a third of its content on the hardest difficulty. Not sure they could add much in unique trophies for M.o.M. Like they already have the 'Fly for a minute in one stage'. Maybe encourage using the other two modes in 'Track selection'. Plus with all the star rewards you couldn't play exclusively on Proud through the World Tour (most of it, not all of it).

I wouldn't mind if they made them less grind-based. '100'000 enemies defeated'. I'm halfway done with 'Proud' mode (having done all songs on 'Beginner' and 'Standard' already) and haven't reached '50'000 enemies defeated' yet. Plus one team is maxed out and the three others are over Level 50.

 

Like, I enjoyed KH1 with doing it in two playthroughs, and did the same for KHII. KHDDD is fun except for the 'Dropping 100 times'. I was in the low 70's when I was done everything else. 

I am glad there are no more 'No Continues' trophy, 

 

Like that's why I have avoided the B.B.S. Platinum, 6 playthroughs if you want to be fair to yourself. 3 for Critical, 3 for everything else. Unless you are that good, and I struggled with Lingering Will on Beginner. ^u^' 

Nope, it doesn't require you to perfect these songs, ever heard of the Excellent Bar or All Excellent score? Nope, it's just requires you to make 50 no-fail/Full Chain runs on each difficulty. Read the feats on the internet, they could have added much more and it's disappointing, that you're not mastering the game at all, when getting the plat. Oh, and I'm actually disappointed, they removed the "No Continue" trophies

 

17 hours ago, Fran_Bankai said:

Did you try to beat ReMind DLC trophies??? I mean, Risk-taker was a real challenge...

Of course I did, I'm a huge KH fan, it was a nice step back from the easy cakewalks that were KH3 and DDD's plats
 

 

On 10.12.2020 at 1:28 PM, TheSleepyBeauty said:

I probably won't ever go back and Platinum the remastered games on the PS4 (already did for KH2 bc its my favorite out of the series) but Platinum both KH 1 and KHCoM on the PS3 was such a good feeling and a sense of accomplishment. And what did it was the unstacked difficulty trophies. I loved it! Replaying the games 3 times I actually missed things that I didn't notice from my first playthrough and these are games I've played as a kid! It's the pure dedication. Period. I've never felt any other game where I actually enjoyed and self-worth in getting those two Platinums. KH3 platinum was a joke to me. It felt like a 2/10 feeling than with PS3 KH 1 & KHCoM 9/10. It was worth it. You have to be be a huge fan of the series if you have those two PS3 platinums. You have to. I can't see anyone just going for the Platinum and not liking the games. It's not possible. It's just not. 

I actually found the unstacking trophies cheap and annoying, but I get your point. It felt, you put more dedication because of that. Nevertheless, I got the plat/100% in CoM on both versions + GBA and hated it everytime, because the only fun post-game content is opening this few treasure rooms lol. Other than that - it's just grinding cards and LVL 99s.

 

 

On 10.12.2020 at 0:24 PM, Vermilion_Joker said:

As someone who played the original BBS and FM on PSP, Birth by Sleep was not only a mundane grind to properly platinum, it just wasn't that great of a game. The Mysterious Figure was the least of my worries because I'm so used to his lack of following the rules and giga-super armor, but the overall tactic Thunder Surge spam and just hoping RNG doesn't decide to obliterate you with his constant mixups was utterly terrible.

 

The real icing on the cake was, as you said, doing the same things three different times for the sake of 100%. Sure there's less worlds, but there's still the fact you have to do all of the minute tasks three different times just so you can get a measly bronze. You have to grind for every possible command for every character, do every Mirage Arena match thrice and more for the 9,999 medal accomplishment, and every mini-game? Three times again? Just wasn't very fun compared to something like II Final Mix or even Dream Drop Distance because of the shared journal, despite my qualms with it.

At least, it felt like you're doing something, unlike Re:CoM where you just mindlessly grinded levels and cards. I mean, I get your point, but at least this grind felt a little rewarding.

 

[AquaNSky]

It's funny how a delightful and colourful series attracts the masochistic.

 

All Excellent on 50 or more Proud songs would be a nightmare (Managed to get one or two just going for Full-Chain).

[Sebulba2000]

10 hours ago, AquaNSky said:

It's funny how a delightful and colourful series attracts the masochistic.

 

All Excellent on 50 or more Proud songs would be a nightmare (Managed to get one or two just going for Full-Chain).

Maybe I'm a little masochistic, but to fully complete the game you'd have to get All Excellent on every song, on each difficulty. While, I can understand, they didn't want to require that much, I still find the plat terribly easy.

[soliunasm]

5 hours ago, Sebulba2000 said:

Maybe I'm a little masochistic, but to fully complete the game you'd have to get All Excellent on every song, on each difficulty. While, I can understand, they didn't want to require that much, I still find the plat terribly easy.

 

The difference here is that this is a rhythm game in a series that's almost exclusively action RPG and it's a lot harder for people to even go above the medium difficulties in rhythm games to begin with. Asking them to full chain 50 Proud songs is already pretty difficult and then asking them to complete all 150 of them is even more so. If you don't have experience in the rhythm game genre then just beating the Standard difficulty songs (Which in my opinion are mind numbing with how easy they are) is like pulling teeth for people. Maybe the list should have asked for 50 All Excellents in total across the difficulties, maybe it should have asked for a couple All Excellents in a couple of the hardest songs on Standard, and maybe you should have had to complete 10 songs on Performer mode on Proud (Not even Full Chain, just complete them) but overall it's just right for all skill levels and Proud isn't an enormous step up over Standard compared to what you usually see in rhythm games like jumping from Hard to Expert in Guitar Hero.

Edited December 13, 2020 by soliunasm

[Kingdom Keeper]

I think the best thing about the trophy list for MoM is how sympathetic it is to the lowest common denominator of people. I actually have a lot of trouble with rhythm games. I find them fun, but don’t always have the coordination and timing needed for the more difficult songs. And this trophy list is just the right amount of difficult for me to actually get through it. Even a trophy like requiring that you clear all world missions would lock the game out for me since I know I’d never be able to beat One-Winged Angel with 50% or more HP without items on Proud. Believe me, I’ve tried. That is a feat I’ll never be able to overcome. But I like that it’s there for more skilled players. On top of performer mode. While one button mode is there for players like me. All this to say Plats should be difficult. But they shouldn’t necessarily force the player to do *everything* the game has to offer. Even something like the Dark Souls trophy list doesn’t force the player to play through the game without lighting a campfire, even though you get a rare item for doing so. Plats should just provide enough challenge and grind that you feel as if you’ve hollowed out the game pretty well. Like hollowing out a pumpkin. There may be some gunk left in there, but as long as there’s enough room for the light to shine through the face you’ve carved out, you’ve done what you needed to do.