Choice on language to learn

[Tiaul]

Hey、 I'm trying to decide if I wanna learn Japanese or a variant of Chinese. Up until now I've always wanted to learn Japanese because I wanna visit the country and love so much about it but more recently it's dawned on me that the amount of Chinese immigrants that live in the part of Sydney I live in that can't speak english is kinda a problem when I am not sure if I've missed a bus or not. I'd say 1 in 4 Asians I speak to in Sydney can actually speak english so I'm now wondering if I should just learn Chinese instead as it would be quite beneficial within the area I live in. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by Tiaul

[damon8r351]

"Chinese" is a language family with hundreds of dialects that are not mutually intelligible in some cases. You might mean Mandarin though, and even that has different dialects. People in Beijing talk differently than people from Chongqing for instance. Be aware that Mandarin is a tonal language, in that not only what you say has meaning, but also how you say it. So if you're not careful, you may be calling someone's mother a horse. I may or may not be joking about any of this.

[Tiaul]

? yeah、 kinda aware of the different variants which is what's annoying about idea. CANTONESE or Mandarin was ones I was thinking of going qoth if went that way

[damon8r351]

When people "learn Chinese" as a foreigner, what they're being taught is known as Standard Mandarin Chinese, which is based on how they speak in Beijing and is more or less the lingua franca of the country.

 

I once travelled through China, and remember a story one of the tour guides (Chinese local) was telling us. We'd passed a billboard showing a picture of Hu Jintao, then President of China. The guide commented that Hu Jintao was the first leader of the country that everyone could more or less understand when he spoke on TV. Before then, the country was run by Chinese Communist revolutionaries who came from peasant backgrounds, cutting their teeth fighting the Japanese. Naturally, they all spoke dialects of Chinese that nobody could understand. He said that one in particular, Deng Xiaoping I think, would have his daughter translate for him when he gave speeches on TV. So there's that.

[Tiaul]

2 hours ago, damon8r351 said:

When people "learn Chinese" as a foreigner, what they're being taught is known as Standard Mandarin Chinese, which is based on how they speak in Beijing and is more or less the lingua franca of the country.

 

I once travelled through China, and remember a story one of the tour guides (Chinese local) was telling us. We'd passed a billboard showing a picture of Hu Jintao, then President of China. The guide commented that Hu Jintao was the first leader of the country that everyone could more or less understand when he spoke on TV. Before then, the country was run by Chinese Communist revolutionaries who came from peasant backgrounds, cutting their teeth fighting the Japanese. Naturally, they all spoke dialects of Chinese that nobody could understand. He said that one in particular, Deng Xiaoping I think, would have his daughter translate for him when he gave speeches on TV. So there's that.

Sounds like a headache

[Lava_Yuki]

I'm fluent in Japanese both speaking and reading/writing, so I'm probably a bit biased but I'd recommend Japanese. I used to live in Japan, studied there and also did a medical elective there in Tokyo and have made many great friends along the way both there as well as at events here in the UK. I would think that there are a fair number of Japanese in Sydney as well, since it's nearer to Japan than places like the UK and is popular for English language learning. Japanese people are mostly friendly, respectful and very helpful, even if you don't speak Japanese that well they go out of there way to help most of the time. Japan is also a lovely country to visit and very safe, especially if you're into the culture, gaming, food etc. 

 

In terms of the language, it does take a lot of time and effort. I don't know anything about chinese but I assume that since neither are latin based, both would be a challenge for English speakers. To my ears, Chinese pronunciation sounds very tough, while Japanese pronunciation is very simple and easy. There's also three types of writing styles in Japanese but less Kanji than Chinese. As far as learning, I used gaming, anime, Japanese dramas and music to help make my study a lot more fun as I love anime, manga  and j-drama and also play games in Japanese. but with chinese, to me i seems harder to make it fun via things like gaming or anime as Im not sure how China fairs on that. I'm sure they have dubs or subs though. 

[ProfBambam55]

japanese is really easy to learn because it's rhythmic not tonal but a relatively useless language anywhere other than japan, hawaii, and parts of south korea...that being said, you'll be fine visiting japan with only english, so I'd vote  learning mandarin...likely you'll find a lot more practical applications back home...as with any language, the more you communicate with it, the more you retain and evolve, right?...

 

with regards to dialects since they were mentioned above, Japanese also has a ton of dialects, the "neutral" one being tokyo's...it also has a variety of different formalities to consider depending on who you are speaking to...if you go the japanese route, I'd recommend learning the "masu" form as it can be used universally...also be weary of learning from certain music, manga, anime, video games...i met a dude (in Japan) that everyone made fun of cause he spoke like a 16th century warrior having learned mostly through his favourite media...haha...

 

the other thing about japanese for the english brain is that the sentence structure can take a little getting used to...often people speak in half sentences with no subject and the verb coming at the end of a sentence (germanic structure)...in other words you will need to avoid translating your thoughts word-for-word if you want to be understood...

 

mandarin, on the other hand, is more similar in structure to roman languages and offers a little more freedom but very difficult because it is hardcore tonal...so like shu (u sound going up)and shu (u sound going down) are made the same way but have very different meanings...so you're either saying "it's raining" or "fishing outside"...japanese is quite easy to pronounce with very few syllables to learn...the only language I can pull off flawlessly while brushing my teeth (also flawlessly)...

 

the reading/writing for both languages is pretty crazy...expect to learn thousands of characters if you ever hope to read even just a simple newspaper clipping...it's been said that you will need to know about 4000 characters to be able to read a japanese newspaper...my guess would be mandarin requires even more...

 

regardless of which you choose, I wish you the best of luck...both languages are very contextual, so prepare for some extended practical use before becoming anywhere near fluent...my two questions are: do you speak more than one language already?...and, are you any good at singing?...

Edited March 1, 2019 by ProfBambam55

[Tiaul]

11 hours ago, ProfBambam55 said:

japanese is really easy to learn because it's rhythmic not tonal but a relatively useless language anywhere other than japan, hawaii, and parts of south korea...that being said, you'll be fine visiting japan with only english, so I'd vote  learning mandarin...likely you'll find a lot more practical applications back home...as with any language, the more you communicate with it, the more you retain and evolve, right?...

 

with regards to dialects since they were mentioned above, Japanese also has a ton of dialects, the "neutral" one being tokyo's...it also has a variety of different formalities to consider depending on who you are speaking to...if you go the japanese route, I'd recommend learning the "masu" form as it can be used universally...also be weary of learning from certain music, manga, anime, video games...i met a dude (in Japan) that everyone made fun of cause he spoke like a 16th century warrior having learned mostly through his favourite media...haha...

 

the other thing about japanese for the english brain is that the sentence structure can take a little getting used to...often people speak in half sentences with no subject and the verb coming at the end of a sentence (germanic structure)...in other words you will need to avoid translating your thoughts word-for-word if you want to be understood...

 

mandarin, on the other hand, is more similar in structure to roman languages and offers a little more freedom but very difficult because it is hardcore tonal...so like shu (u sound going up)and shu (u sound going down) are made the same way but have very different meanings...so you're either saying "it's raining" or "fishing outside"...japanese is quite easy to pronounce with very few syllables to learn...the only language I can pull off flawlessly while brushing my teeth (also flawlessly)...

 

the reading/writing for both languages is pretty crazy...expect to learn thousands of characters if you ever hope to read even just a simple newspaper clipping...it's been said that you will need to know about 4000 characters to be able to read a japanese newspaper...my guess would be mandarin requires even more...

 

regardless of which you choose, I wish you the best of luck...both languages are very contextual, so prepare for some extended practical use before becoming anywhere near fluent...my two questions are: do you speak more than one language already?...and, are you any good at singing?...

not good at singing but I have the worst mixed accent you'll ever hear ? As for other languages nah. I can pick up Japanese to the ear alot easier though. Mandarin etc aound like mashed languages and gibberish to me. Think I'd have nightmares if I had to understand all those characters as well. So Japanese would be alot easoer for me no doubt as it's had influence on me all my life though don't know which would be better off with. 

[ProfBambam55]

3 hours ago, Tiaul said:

not good at singing but I have the worst mixed accent you'll ever hear As for other languages nah. I can pick up Japanese to the ear alot easier though. Mandarin etc aound like mashed languages and gibberish to me. Think I'd have nightmares if I had to understand all those characters as well. So Japanese would be alot easoer for me no doubt as it's had influence on me all my life though don't know which would be better off with. 

ah, I see...it would make sense that japanese sounds easier to pick up because it is a very simple language...i remember reading somewhere along my travels that japanese has less than 100 syllables and mandarin a little under 500 compared to like 15 000 in english...

 

the reason I asked about other languages and singing is I've noticed  that, and this is not always the case but in general, people who grow up speaking multiple languages and/or are good at singing (meaning they hear their own voice properly) tend to have an easier time picking up other languages...

 

as far as practicality and applicability, you'll have to decide for yourself...where I live, mandarin would be far more useful on a daily basis than japanese so my opinion is based partly on that...i've also noticed in many countries that I've traveled to that chinese communities (many cities even have a dedicated chinatown area) tend to be larger and more prominent as well...

[Tiaul]

7 hours ago, ProfBambam55 said:

ah, I see...it would make sense that japanese sounds easier to pick up because it is a very simple language...i remember reading somewhere along my travels that japanese has less than 100 syllables and mandarin a little under 500 compared to like 15 000 in english...

 

the reason I asked about other languages and singing is I've noticed  that, and this is not always the case but in general, people who grow up speaking multiple languages and/or are good at singing (meaning they hear their own voice properly) tend to have an easier time picking up other languages...

 

as far as practicality and applicability, you'll have to decide for yourself...where I live, mandarin would be far more useful on a daily basis than japanese so my opinion is based partly on that...i've also noticed in many countries that I've traveled to that chinese communities (many cities even have a dedicated chinatown area) tend to be larger and more prominent as well...

Yeah, alot of people that only speak Chinese here which is only reason I'm considering it

[Yukiko Miyamoto]

Well most countries teach English but of course they won't use it as much so slowly forget all about it, plus not all countries have a requirement to teach English. You can make it through just fine without knowing the native language, although there will be a lot of stuff you will be missing out, and some places literally won't let you enter unless you know their language. So best to learn the native language for a place your going as long as you have your first ever language and know it pretty well without a struggle anyone could also be able to learn more languages at some point your brain will make it easier to understand other languages as it starts to understand what you are trying to do so you can learn more languages even easier.

Edited March 30 by Yukiko Miyamoto